quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:
....theft can be legal.

huh?

quote:

theft
noun
the act of taking something from someone unlawfully; [syn: larceny]

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:
....theft can be legal.

huh?

quote:

theft
noun
the act of taking something from someone unlawfully; [syn: larceny]

Eminent Domain

regardless, thats getting away from the issue.
which im sure is what is intended since the issue isnt what some want to address.

Well, the fact that eminent domain is a form of theft in your mind verifies a lot.

Eminent domain requires compensation, and is legal.
Theft does neither.

Perhaps what you meant is the western term of "takings" but that's a different story.

You are right, the topic is wandering...

So, let's go back to my previous question, do you kill lots of people by hitting game?

Skipping all the legal angles, let me tell you how I and every other rancher that hunts that I know of looks at it, the deer behind our fences, low or high, are "ours". They are subject to Texas laws, just as we are, but that doesn't make them any less "ours" and they are "ours" until they cross a fence line onto someone else's property and then they become "theirs". Why are they "ours"? Simple, they're "ours" not because we own them but because we control access to them and, in many cases, go to a great deal of trouble to control their numbers and improve the general quality of the herd. I've had some gun to face discussions with people who seemed to think they could harvest "my" deer on MY land behind MY fence. So far no one has been shot, but I did shoot over the heads of a couple of runners that were poaching to discourage the practice. Now you can look at it however you want to, but until I give someone permission, whether for free or for pay, to hunt on my land, or until that deer gets off my land, he is mine and no one else is going to touch him if I know about it.

i have no doubts that you would shoot at someone over a deer.

quote:

Skipping all the legal angles, let me tell you how I and every other rancher that hunts that I know of looks at it, the deer behind our fences, low or high, are "ours"....blah blah blah

once again, gatomaricone informs the world that he is clinically insane. get back on those meds.

newsflash, dummy - the land may be yours, and i fully support your right to defend access to your property, but the deer belong to the people.

p.s. - don't forget to tell austin about "your deer."

this just in...

Under Parks and Wildlife Code (the Code), §1.013, an owner or occupant of land cannot be prohibited or restricted from constructing or maintaining a fence of any height on the land owned or occupied, and an owner or occupant who constructs such a fence is not liable for the restriction of the movement of wild animals by the fence. Section 1.013 of the Code also states that the existence of a fence does not affect the status of wild animals as property of the people of this state. Thus, by statute, the Parks and Wildlife Commission is unable to promulgate regulations the effect of which would be to hold a landowner liable for the restriction of wildlife behind a high fence. This provision can only be altered or eliminated by the Texas Legislature.



Mitch Lockwood

White-tailed Deer Program Leader

Texas Parks and Wildlife

309 Sidney Baker South

Kerrville, TX 78028

830-792-9677


so the deer are not your property at all. they are still the propery of the people of the state of TX.
the state jsut does not have a legal means in place to force you to allow thier free movement.

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:
this just in...

Under Parks and Wildlife Code (the Code), §1.013, an owner or occupant of land cannot be prohibited or restricted from constructing or maintaining a fence of any height on the land owned or occupied, and an owner or occupant who constructs such a fence is not liable for the restriction of the movement of wild animals by the fence. Section 1.013 of the Code also states that the existence of a fence does not affect the status of wild animals as property of the people of this state. Thus, by statute, the Parks and Wildlife Commission is unable to promulgate regulations the effect of which would be to hold a landowner liable for the restriction of wildlife behind a high fence. This provision can only be altered or eliminated by the Texas Legislature.



Mitch Lockwood

White-tailed Deer Program Leader

Texas Parks and Wildlife

309 Sidney Baker South

Kerrville, TX 78028

830-792-9677


so the deer are not your property at all. they are still the propery of the people of the state of TX.
the state jsut does not have a legal means in place to force you to allow thier free movement.

How many times do you hve to be told, that the hunting access belongs to the land owner, and the white tail deer (not exotics)belong to the state?

Serious, KS, this has been asked 100 times by you, and the land owner OWNS THE RIGHT TO HUNT ON HIS LAND.

And, yes, you can still be shot in texas for trespassing

jeffe -

i believe tht he was replying to gatomaricone's THE DEER ARE MINE bullspit.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:
this just in...

Under Parks and Wildlife Code (the Code), §1.013, an owner or occupant of land cannot be prohibited or restricted from constructing or maintaining a fence of any height on the land owned or occupied, and an owner or occupant who constructs such a fence is not liable for the restriction of the movement of wild animals by the fence. Section 1.013 of the Code also states that the existence of a fence does not affect the status of wild animals as property of the people of this state. Thus, by statute, the Parks and Wildlife Commission is unable to promulgate regulations the effect of which would be to hold a landowner liable for the restriction of wildlife behind a high fence. This provision can only be altered or eliminated by the Texas Legislature.



Mitch Lockwood

White-tailed Deer Program Leader

Texas Parks and Wildlife

309 Sidney Baker South

Kerrville, TX 78028

830-792-9677


so the deer are not your property at all. they are still the propery of the people of the state of TX.
the state jsut does not have a legal means in place to force you to allow thier free movement.

How many times do you have to be told, that the hunting access belongs to the land owner, and the white tail deer (not exotics)belong to the state?

Serious, KS, this has been asked 100 times by you, and the land owner OWNS THE RIGHT TO HUNT ON HIS LAND.

And, yes, you can still be shot in texas for trespassing

There used to be a problem with people shooting deer out of season, or by spotlight, and the Game people couldn't do anything about it till the land owner filed charges on the offenders for trespass. The law was changed, and now to be absolutely legal, a hunter with permission to hunt on private land in Texas, must have in his posession, at all times, while on the property,and till the deer is finally processed, a written slip, signed by the land owner, or his agent, or the game warden can file charges whether the land owner wants hin to or not!

This had to be done, because when the game people cought poachers illegally hunting on private property, the land owner, usually knew the poachers family, and wouldn't file as a favor to the family, avoiding bad blood between families. This law takes the responsibility away from the land owner, and places it in the hands of the TPWL, to avoiding fueds, and to be able to prosecute the poachers!

And Jeffe, is right, don't get cought on private land, in Texas, especially at night, because you are in deep trouble. This is a ranching state, and russleing is a big business, and is organized crime in this state, costing land owners millions of dollars per year. When a regestered breeder bull, can go for $100K we are talking a big loss! That is the reason for private property rights laws give the right to deadly force, for felony trespass!

It just happens that the deer, are on private property, almost any place in texas, and though the wild deer are the property of the people of the state, "access to private property" other than their own,is not the right of the people in Texas, or anyone coming into Texas!

Want to play you pay, and that is not only in Texas, there are trespass laws in SC as well. If you don't believe that, go on to someone else's property, and refuse to leave because there are some public deer on the property!

mac - that may be so, but it doesn't change the fact that the deer belong to the people, shich is KS's point.

access is another issue entirely.

quote:

Originally posted by tasunkawitko:
mac - that may be so, but it doesn't change the fact that the deer belong to the people, shich is KS's point.

access is another issue entirely.

they wont listen to that.
they are either financialy vested into the prosses or they dont want to accept the fact that those 160" bucks they paid $3500 for are actually livestock. either way they wont listen.
they want to attempt to change the argument into one about poaching or land use or anything to distract from the truth.
TX ranch deer are either stolen public deer or they are personally owned livestock.
they cannot remain wildlife and be kept behind an enclosure.
you cant have your cake and eat it to.

i give up.

i didn't realize that texans gave up so easily. travis, bowie, crockett, houston, austin and the rest must be rolling in their graves.

either that, or you realized that it is futile to defend the position that landowners own the wildlife.

This thread has gone completely to Sh***! What's with the name calling? Can't have a civil discussion?

SkyJacker,
Part of my point exactly ( no pun intended).

Skinner,
You would think that would be the case. And if the funds were used correctly it would be of great benefit to all.

A very reasoned argument. Sorry I can't find who wrote it first.
quote:
the owner is by definition denying access to the resource while also seeking to profit from the existence of the resource.

jeffeoso,
man what is your dig in this? Even if it was not written exactly correct, I am sure you knew what he meant about the deer car collision.
And speaking of not well written what the heck do you mean by:
"swap out animals for gold or oil???? I don't think either of these "ROAM". And talk about reaching, what the devil does this have to do with communism?
And jeffe, your right the world ain't fair. But real men don't whine about it and point it out, they try to make it fair. All political movements have started with debate. All laws are begun in debate. Reasoned debate. Good thing our country's founding fathers didn't think the way you do, we would still be English colonies. Good thing General Sam didn't think like you do, we would still be part of Mexico.

gatogordo,
Legal fiction? Man, did you really say legal fiction?
Did you read my post about free range verses non free range yet? Another of your posts I would like clarification on is "some idiot comes along and shoots the too young" what's too young 3.5, 4.5 5.5 or 7.5 yr old?
I have always thought the true measure of a trophy was in the eye of the beholder. No measuring tape can make any trophy better to me.
I can't understand for the life of me how this always turns to "it's mah deer and ah'l shoot yew fer trepassin'". Where the dickin's does that come from????


Mac,
The only place I know of in Texas that you have to carry written permission from the landowner is in Harris county.


Tas,

Thanks for your answers to my questions.

KSTEPHENS,
You have some really great arguments and questions, but man, don't let the goobers get you so riled. Keep talking to people, keep asking provacative questions. Just because something is legal DOES NOT make it right. Laws can and do change. Just because something is unfair DOES NOT mean it has to stay that way.
The less intelligent the people are that you are arguing with the more careful you have to be. Then there are some that are just plain hypocrites that will never admit wrong doing. But you will find that these are generally the ones that scream loudest when wronged.

edited for correction to MACD37
Thanks all.

Oh, yeah, KSTEPHENS, lay of the Texas stuff there are other states that hunt the exact same way. There are goobers there to. By the bye I'm a born and bred Texan myself and I know a lot of other people here with the same thoughts you and I both expressed.

quote:

Originally posted by tasunkawitko:
mac - that may be so, but it doesn't change the fact that the deer belong to the people, shich is KS's point.

access is another issue entirely.

I believe if you will read all my posts on this thread, you will see the only place I've said the deer belonged to the land owner, was when he bread his own herd, starting with farm raised breeders.

I have never disputed the fact that the native deer in this state belongs to the public. That fact, doesn't nulify the rights of the land owner to deny access to his property, simply because the deer are on it! That fact is the same in SC as well, and KS knows that, but he simply ignore that! His whole attitude is sour grapes, because this state has 3 million whitetail deer,and that doesn't include anothe 900,000 Muledeer, and that many deer wouldn't fit in SC!

The whole problem I have with Mr Stevens is, his insessant down grading of the state of Texas, with his know-it-all diatribes when he has never even been in this state, and yet seems to know what everyone in this state does! Once again only 1% of the ranches in Texas have even part of their ranches under high fence, and most of those high fence parts of their ranch, is to protect EXOTICS, which are private property! All his expertese, is based on magazines, and PeTA head info, and when you compare Texas to the area where he lives, and in fact, any wooded state East of the mississippi, they have far higher percent of high fence, and smaller properties, than Texas.

I simply get tired of these know-it-alls makeing blanket statements without one iota of real knowledge on the subject, they spout! I was born on a Texas cattel ranch, in the north end of the Texas Hill country,71 yrs ago, and I hunted every property within walking distance of my home, as a kid, and I never saw a high fence. I have hunted all my life, all over the world, and a big bunch of it in Texas, and he is simply full of crap, and doesn't know what he is talking about! I only hunt Wild hogs in Texas anymore, because the cost has become so high, that I can hunt Africa cheaper, but it has nothing to do with the quality of hunting in Texas. High fence, or low, and hunt is what you make it. It is the damand from people back east, for land access to hunt in this state, has gotten so great, I simply can't aford it any longer.

The damn fence has nothing to do with it at all, if the habatat is good, and you hunt on your hind legs!

This guy is doing exactly what we accuse the media of doing, talking from an empty head, where the truth is concerned!

................... BYE!

Oh, my gosh...since Jim P. said this, it must be gospel. I will immediately carve this into stone and see if God can get it added as an 11th Commandment...

Now that we've gotten to page 3 of this thread I must ask "Just what does owning WILD game mean?"

- You still can't legally shoot it whenever you feel like it.
- You can't legally fence it in, at least most places.
- You can't chase it with dogs, shoot it with paintballs, corral it with ATVs,
- You can't even legally get it darted to breed it.

So, regardless of if you or anyone else "owns" the game, as long as it's free to run about the issue of ownership doesn't appear to mean a whole lot until the critter stops breathing.

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
This thread has gone completely to Sh***! What's with the name calling? Can't have a civil discussion?

SkyJacker,
Part of my point exactly ( no pun intended).

Skinner,
You would think that would be the case. And if the funds were used correctly it would be of great benefit to all.

A very reasoned argument. Sorry I can't find who wrote it first.
quote:
the owner is by definition denying access to the resource while also seeking to profit from the existence of the resource.

jeffeoso,
man what is your dig in this? Even if it was not written exactly correct, I am sure you knew what he meant about the deer car collision.
And speaking of not well written what the heck do you mean by:
"swap out animals for gold or oil???? I don't think either of these "ROAM". And talk about reaching, what the devil does this have to do with communism?
And jeffe, your right the world ain't fair. But real men don't whine about it and point it out, they try to make it fair. All political movements have started with debate. All laws are begun in debate. Reasoned debate. Good thing our country's founding fathers didn't think the way you do, we would still be English colonies. Good thing General Sam didn't think like you do, we would still be part of Mexico.

gatogordo,
Legal fiction? Man, did you really say legal fiction?
Did you read my post about free range verses non free range yet? Another of your posts I would like clarification on is "some idiot comes along and shoots the too young" what's too young 3.5, 4.5 5.5 or 7.5 yr old?
I have always thought the true measure of a trophy was in the eye of the beholder. No measuring tape can make any trophy better to me.

Mac,
The only place I know of in Texas that you have to carry written permission from the landowner is in Harris county.

I can't understand for the life of me how this always turns to "it's mah deer and ah'l shoot yew fer trepassin'". Where the dickin's does that come from????

Tas,

Thanks for your answers to my questions.

KSTEPHENS,
You have some really great arguments and questions, but man, don't let the goobers get you so riled. Keep talking to people, keep asking provacative questions. Just because something is legal DOES NOT make it right. Laws can and do change. Just because something is unfair DOES NOT mean it has to stay that way.
The less intelligent the people are that you are arguing with the more careful you have to be. Then there are some that are just plain hypocrites that will never admit wrong doing. But you will find that these are generally the ones that scream loudest when wronged.

Thanks all.

JTEX This post is about the most self obsorbed, and elitist "OPINION" that has been posted on this string yet. Where on Earth did you get the idea I advocate the shooting of anyone over a deer, or even trespass, unless it is in my home! And what makes you think I would talk the way you so eloquently spoke for me in your section address to me?("it's mah deer and ah'l shoot yew fer trespassin")Where in my post did you read that?

All my post was doing was setting Mr Stevens right on what the law is,because of Jeffe's comment, nothing more! The trespass law has nothing to with deer, at all, but has to do with the envasion of private property, by an unauthorized TRESPASSER! MY comment was to the history of why that law was put in place in Ranch land.

The problem is, just like your post, Mr Stevens' post is not a debate, and never was from the start, it was, as is yours, a MY WAY IS THE ONLY WAY THAT IS RIGHTpost that was taken to pen of poison, and also like your's is to promote your notion, that others are GOOBERS if they disagree with your, or his opinion, and designed to start a fight!

I agree with Mr Stevens on many things as well, but I hate the broad brush indictment of TEXAS, as being only caged hunting, and you know as well as he does, that is not true! In every post Ive seen where someone posted a picture of a deer, killed in Texas, this boob has a smart remark saying something on the order of "TEXAS, Huh, well that's a nice pen raised deer." , or "Well that isn't hunting,it's just shooting!" This has become a common misconception that is because of dopes like him who spout crap like that. 1% highfence, is a smaller percentage than just about any state where high fence is utilized. We can't help the the whole state is private property, and they if you hunt, it will be after paying a trespass fee, for a deer lease!

I have personally killed a few deer in Texas in the last 60 yrs of hunting in Texas, starting with the first deer taken at the tender age of 7 yrs, and I've never shot a deer behind high fence, in my life. I now hunt deer in New Mexico, because I can't afford to hunt in my home state, and New Mexico has 36,000,000
acres of public land, and damn fine hunting on all of it!

This thread is typical of all American hunting forums all over the net, they are a cesspool of misinformation, and name calling,posted by know-it-alls who want noting but a fight, or to think they are elevating thier own status, by belittleing others!

KSTEPHENS quoted Jim Posewitz with the following regarding high-fenced hunting:

quote:

There is an evil seed buried here...By selling these facsimiles of real wild animals, these people degrade the whole reality of hunting

You know, all of the high-fenced hunting is not about big bucks and big buck$. Sometimes, the non-native species, which can be hunted year-round, are just what the doctor ordered.

Don't think so?

OK, look into the eyes of the 10 year-old suffering from an inoperable brain tumor. Tell him that his wish to bag a big game animal -- ANY animal -- is degrading to the sport.

Tell that to the wounded war vet who only has part of one leg remaining.

Tell that to an aging grandfather who no longer can climb the hills and who knows that this season will probably be his very last.

quote:

I now hunt deer in New Mexico, because I can't afford to hunt in my home state

and why do you think that is?

if landowners who hunt or make money allowing hunting on thier property could afford to high fence, how many more would?

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:

quote:

I now hunt deer in New Mexico, because I can't afford to hunt in my home state

and why do you think that is?

if landowners who hunt or make money allowing hunting on thier property could afford to high fence, how many more would?

KS, I doubt you will find any Texan paying those prices, to hunt a deer. That is because of people from eastern states with more money than sense, out bid the locals for the hunting rights! I hunted on My grandfather's ranch, and every rance around us, and never paid a dime to hunt, and we never turned anyone down who came to the ranch house and asked permission. They were told, however, not to leave gates open or scatter trash on the place,and to be very careful about shooting toward the house, or barns.If they did any of those things, they were asked to leave, and not come back! Of course cattle were not targets either, and we never had a cow shot on our place.

These were local people however, and the problems didn't start till the oil leases, started bringing in thier business connections for hunting intertainment, and spreading money around like there was no tomorrow.

Houseing has gone the same way in this state because of U-huals coming our way, paying ungodly prices for homes, pricing the locals out of the market. My home cost only $92K, but in california that home would cost 3/4 of a million,today, but before the influx, I could have bought the same home for $45K! When the influx of CALIFORNICATORS, and the EASTERN CARPIT BAGGERS, started, back in the 50s, this was a fine friendly state, and the people moved here because they liked that, but as soon as they got here, they started trying to change Texas to be like where they came from. Just plain stupid, and now we have people like you in our business, who have never even been here!


Many of the largest exotic game ranches are owned by outsiders, not Texans, and their customers are not Texans either. Most Texans hunt on deer leases,and/or get the public land license, to hunt the reserves like the one discussed in the first string where you spouted your know-it-all opinion of his, was,as you called it, A PEN RAISED DEER! With many locals, who KNOW, telling you these deer are not pen raised, and are not fenced in, you still spout your blatant lies. Those refuges are the only place a poor man can hunt, and they are as wild, or wilder than this state was in the 1840s the wildlife sanctuaries, and TPWL management areas are one place you damn outsiders can't change with you money, because they are restricted to resident hunting.

The large horns on the deer in Texas, for the most part are natural, as your aley commented the large antlers going on a deer that is no bigger than a German Shepard dog. The deer have always been that body size in Texas, but the horns have always been large, long before anyone started experimenting. When I was a kid, I used to pick up drop offs, that would go 250" in the books, if that interests anyone, the so-called engenered deer you guys like to piss, and moan about today, are no bigger than they were in the 1930s & 1940s. Our barn's south wall was covered with racks that would set records for any of the eastern states, and those were shot for meat, not horns.

I have lived, and hunted in Texas most of my life, and never saw a high fence till the early 60s, and that was ten miles out of San Antonio, where everything had to be protected from the city folks!

My suggestion to you, Mr. Stevens is, do your talking about your own state,and fix your own problems before you take on Texas, a place I still say, you have never been, or you wouldn't make such blanket, broad brush statements about things you only THINK you know!

As I told JTEX, I agree with you on many things, but when you are told the truth, and you bite onto your OPINION, like a pit bull, and refuse to listen, then you are not debateing, and it makes you look like a total know-it-all, ass! Tell me what color the Texas mud is, only after you've walked in it! Before that, you are working with nothing but hear-say! ..................Adios!

.................No More! ing!

jtex - lots of good points! the quote about the landowner profiting from the resource was mine, one of my few flashes of brilliance this week.

mac - i admire your defense of texas, but don't let your passion for your home state turn you into the very type of poster that you claim to despise. you accuse jtex of a self-absorbed post, while making several of your own.

KS - i've read both "inherit the hunt" and "beyond fair chace." excellent writings that dovetail fairly well with my idea of ethical hunting.

quote:

JTEX This post is about the most self obsorbed, and elitist "OPINION" that has been posted on this string yet. Where on Earth did you get the idea I advocate the shooting of anyone over a deer, or even trespass, unless it is in my home! And what makes you think I would talk the way you so eloquently spoke for me in your section address to me?("it's mah deer and ah'l shoot yew fer trespassin")Where in my post did you read that?

All my post was doing was setting Mr Stevens right on what the law is,because of Jeffe's comment, nothing more! The trespass law has nothing to with deer, at all, but has to do with the envasion of private property, by an unauthorized TRESPASSER! MY comment was to the history of why that law was put in place in Ranch land.

The problem is, just like your post, Mr Stevens' post is not a debate, and never was from the start, it was, as is yours, a MY WAY IS THE ONLY WAY THAT IS RIGHTpost that was taken to pen of poison, and also like your's is to promote your notion, that others are GOOBERS if they disagree with your, or his opinion, and designed to start a fight!

Mac,
Sir my most sincere apology. The "I'll shoot you" remark was not at all intended for you. Nor was the goober remark. But I do think some of the posts are "gooberish" ( is that a word ) not because they don't agree with me but because I can't make any sense of them at all nor are they ( the posts ) part of any debate. Again I apologize if I offended you for it was surely not meant. And yes sir I did intend reasoned debate.

of ALL us in this discussion (including myself), jtex has been the one who has endeavoured most to keep the discussion on a reasonable and even keel. even the most cursory reading of his posts will support this assertion and he should be given credit for his efforts.

i'm not sucking up to him in hopes that when i do get down to texas, he'll get me some cheap/free land to hunt on - i am sincere!

Heck Bobby all of these arguments can cut both ways

quote:

OK, look into the eyes of the 10 year-old suffering from an inoperable brain tumor. Tell him that his wish to bag a big game animal -- ANY animal -- is degrading to the sport.


Tell that to the wounded war vet who only has part of one leg remaining.

Tell that to an aging grandfather who no longer can climb the hills and who knows that this season will probably be his very last.

The poor kid has never had an opportunity to hunt because his dad had to work 2 jobs to pay for his healthcare. And his War Vet uncle couldn't afford a deer lease after changing carreers, nor his aged Grandfather on a fixed income.

Even Mac, said he no longer hunts deer in
Texas because it costs too much.

I myself have 2) Great uncles quit hunting deer and 1) Great Aunt because of the cost of leasing.

KS: you've made it quite clear that you don't like deer feeders, high fences, tower blinds, and lots of other things (including, apparently, most Texans).

And clearly, nothing anyone has said has had any impact on your opinions. so let me ask a question.

If you were the dictator of hunting in Texas, and could wave your hands and change anything you wanted to, what would you do? ....outlaw, tower blinds, feeders, high fences, and all hunting techniques that you don't feel are worthy? If so what do you think the consequences of your actions would be?

quote:

Originally posted by olarmy:
KS: you've made it quite clear that you don't like deer feeders, high fences, tower blinds, and lots of other things (including, apparently, most Texans).

And clearly, nothing anyone has said has had any impact on your opinions. so let me ask a question.

If you were the dictator of hunting in Texas, and could wave your hands and change anything you wanted to, what would you do? ....outlaw, tower blinds, feeders, high fences, and all hunting techniques that you don't feel are worthy? If so what do you think the consequences of your actions would be?

actually i dont dislike any of those things as a singular item.

i hunt elevated from time to time with a climber.
i hunt in Arkansas were the guys at the club have feeders on certain areas.
i can see putting up fences in ceratain spots to keep cattle from an area.

its when you combine them all together that you get a "hunter" who i dont particularly care to have assosiated with myself.

im not that fat rich dude with the SS 300WSSM and ill ret OS optics scope sitting in a 25 foot lounge w/ wearing the newest scent free camo 75 yards from a feeder inside an encloser. holding cam pics of the deer he has paid to shoot. and when hes done the deed he'll haul his fat ass down to the ground and ride back to the lodge in a Hummvie while the guides have his animal capped. he'll be sitting back smoking a cigar and back slappping with the rest of the "hunters".
then he'll promintly dislplay the mount like he did something other than pull the trigger and write the check.

NOW.
if this aint you then i aint talkin about you.
this happens in more places than TX, im not picking on the state of TX. My daddy is from Odesa for Christ sakes.

But i have a feeling that some of you that run to the defence are either that fat SOB or the guy who cashed that fat SOB's check.

Well, I don't care much for the senario you outlined, either. Yes, it happens. And I don't have a high view of the hunter's prowess.

But his actions don't diminish my enjoyement of the way I hunt. And I see no need to make snide comments about the way other folks practice their hobby. You know, your hypothetical "Mr. Big" probably thinks of himself as a hunter. And since he has lots of $$, he probably has some influence with politicians. Like it or not that's they way things work. So when PETA or ARF introduce some of their stupid ideas into the legislative process, it ain't all bad to have a few "Mr. Bigs" on our side. In today's world, the more folks we have that consider themselves hunters, the better off we are.


Couple of other thoughts: There are demographic, geographic, and economic reasons why folks in Texas hunt the way they do.

Demographically, there are a lot of people in Texas who like to hunt (or at least they like to do what they call hunting, which may or may not suite your criteria). And there are lots of people in Texas who want to own rural land. The results are that private land holdings are continually being divided and subdivided into smaller and smaller tracts. Small tracts of land do to lend themselves to still hunting. So blinds are increasingly becoming a necessity.

Geographically, there are many parts of the state that do not lend themselves to still hunting in the traditional sence. Given the option, I prefer not to sit in a blind. But I have been known to sit in blinds and to throw out corn. In some areas it's the only practical approach. And that's not whining as you infer, it's simply the way it is. You even acknowledge that the folks in southern SC, use these discredited techniques. Is that because the human gene pool in southern SC and TX is somehow inferior to the genetics of the folks like you in northern SC? Or could it be because hunters everywhere tend to employ techniques that work in their territory?

Economically, there is a large demand for hunting in Texas (again...a good thing!) and a limited supply. Eco101: prices go up! And who can blame the rancher who can no longer make ends meet raising cattle, for trying to get as much as he can off his property. And if "Mr. Big" is willing to pay big bucks for big bucks, our capitalistic system is going to provide them for him. Free enterprise sometimes has some negative side effects, but on balance, I'll take it over government controls most of the time.

One last thought, if you had started this thread with the same tone as you last post, I suspect it would have been a much shorter and congenial thread. But then it appears to me that you have enjoyed getting some folks nose out of joint with your condesending remarks.

Have a good day.

No one really owns anything in the US it can be taken anytime the government pleases.

Subsidized land should be accessible to the public.

quote:

Originally posted by Ropes:
No one really owns anything in the US it can be taken anytime the government pleases.

Subsidized land should be accessible to the public.

did you hear what this man just told you?
do you understatnd whats he is telling you?

the only thing a man own is what he can take for himself.

penned deer strike back..................



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Georgia Man Gored to Death by Deer

Monday , October 08, 2007



BALL GROUND, Ga. —
A man has been found dead at his home in Ball Ground after apparently being attacked by a deer.

The body of 66-year-old John Henry Frix was found around 8 p.m. yesterday inside the deer's pen on his property. Cherokee County Sheriff's Sergeant Jay Baker says he had been gored several times in the upper body by a deer's antlers.

The deer was one of several Frix kept on his property. His relatives told sheriff's deputies the deer had recently been acting very aggressive, probably due to rut -- the period when deer mate.

Click here for a MyFOXAtlanta report on this story.

Authorities say it appears Frix tried to fend off the deer, which was the size of a small elk.

A family member later shot and killed the deer.

No charges have been filed and the incident has been turned over to the Department of Natural Resources for further investigation.

Deer kill about 150 people a year in the Unites States. But most of those deaths happen when deer are involved in collisions with automobiles.

I guess that deer owned him? Funny I bet Walt Disney never thought Bambi would fight back!