I read this just this morning. Looked like a real flame thrower article so I thought I'd share.

by Craig Boddington

I agree in general. This year marks the 100 th brthday of one of the best !! Caliber .30 model 1906. Happy Birthday !!

I'll quibble on the Roberts. It is not hard to get a Roberts to function just fine a 2.8" action. LA Bobs can go as far as I am concerned...

Perhaps the same goes for the 6mm...

An article surely written to engender discussion and controversy. Three that I own made the "hit list"; .257 Roberts, 7x57 and .300 Savage. Does that mean I'm going to dump 'em? FAT CHANCE!! Perhaps we would be better served by dumping anything described as RUM or SAUM or WSM or WSSM.

I think he missed the boat entirely.

He should have recommended dropping all the RUM, RUM minis, WSM, WSSM, WSSSSSSSMM. All that repetitive crap that is only designed to seprerate Pilgrims from their money on new rifles.

Better Rifles not more weird ammunition.

I didn't disagree with him as a whole.

My RUM feeds JUST FINE. Rebated rim and all, even on a pushfeed action. To tell you the truth, I wish Rem would make a 416, 458, and 470 RUM so I wouldnt have to make brass out of 375's when the time comes. Now the 7MM RUM, the barrel lasts about as long as an ice cube gettin pissed on. The Rem mag and STW have that fairly covered. WSM's need way too much pressure compared to the Rem mag, 300 Winnie, and so on. I guess not too many people like the WSSM's either.

Either way, in the grand scheme of things what would it accomplish for the factory MFGRs not to produce rifles and ammo for those selected? Think the price might go down? Doubt it. I'll keep my 375 RUM, and the guy at the range next to me(ok, maybe 4 or 5 spots down, sorry about the muzzle blast...) can keep his 220 Swift.

Stirring the pot on this one:

.45-70 should be on the list.

quote:

Originally posted by Mickey1:
I think he missed the boat entirely.....

Better Rifles not more weird ammunition.

These may be the truest words ever spoken!

Why would we need more than a good 22rf, one 224 varmint, one 30 cal one good medium like 375 HH and more then one big bore like the 458 lot.

After these need goes out the window.

The idea we don't need these cal or that cal is just another reason I don't buy shooting rags anymore no need to waste the space writing about It.

quote:

Originally posted by 577NitroExpress:
Stirring the pot on this one:

.45-70 should be on the list.

Itchin' for some bitchin', eh?

I would say any cartridge shooting a .277" bullet as they are larger than necessary for deer and on the small side for moose or elk.I would also add any wssm or saum or wsm.

Well, I haven't been around as long as some of you. Honestly, when I got into rifle hunting for deer, I didn't have a mentor. My father didn't hunt, but he liked to fish now and then. When I was 14 yrs old, my older brother came home with a 30.06 round and I thought it looked like something that should fired from a cannon. I had seen .38 ammo but that was it.

While at a job when I was 21, my boss took off one day in November with a friend. Said he was going deer hunting. He brought it his Howa 270. That was the first time I'd ever heard of a deer rifle other than a 30.06. I had a friend who's father managed a gun store. I called them up right after my boss left and asked if they had any "270's." I didn't know squat about Ruger, Remington, Browning, etc.

I found the cheapest one new on the rack, a Ruger 77 in 270. We put a Nikon 4x12 AO on it. That is why I'm such a 270 fan, and for a Ruger, looking back, it shot very small groups, you know, 1/2" with Remington Core Lokt 130 grainers. I thought ALL rifles did that. That is why I didn't have a problem trading it for a left handed MK II when they came out not long after. To my surprise, the new gun shot 2-2.5" groups and that was that.

I've since had several rifles in several calibers as I was a quick learner on most all aspects of accuracy, reloading, bbl. break in (something I knew nothing about for about 4 years).

I have a RUM and have no regrets. Over the years I learned of all of these other calibers that some say are obsolete or should go away. I guess I'm a "minimum" guy. Meaning, I personally never had any use for any caliber that I felt was "less" than a 270. Not that I had something against it, but just why bother?

I bought my 300 RUM specifically for elk and moose because when I read the specs when it came out, it just made sense to me, plus, I simply wanted one. I like the caliber very much and it shoots very very well.

I also never bought into all of the short mag craze. Again, for me, I felt like, why bother? I didn't see any advantage of the 300 WSM over a regular Win Mag. Mine shot just fine. The 7WSM didn't do anything my 7 RemMag wouldn't do. Now the 270 WSM is a different story, but I cannot see it outperforming either one of my magnums. So, I think all of these were basically a step backwards with regards to my own collection of calibers at the time.

I have nothing against them, but I just don't need or want one.

I guess the only "step back" I ever did was after having a 300 RUM, I got a 270 AM. But it will be interesting to see what it will do as soon as it's finished.

I would say get rid of everything BUT the RUM's and the WSM's! It's time for the OLD CRAP to go.....

Some of the old stuff should stay though.....


In museums.

IV

quote:

Originally posted by IdahoVandal:
I would say get rid of everything BUT the RUM's and the WSM's! It's time for the OLD CRAP to go.....

Some of the old stuff should stay though.....


In museums.

IV

That was clever.

quote:

Originally posted by stubblejumper:
I would say any cartridge shooting a .277" bullet as they are larger than necessary for deer....

You mean IDEAL for deer. Anything smaller is on the small side for deer.

The cartridge does not matter all that much and we like this or that one for our own reasons.

The real mess in cartridges started when the belted magnum rounds became dominant over the rimless ones. Now that did not matter a lot to non handloaders but belted bottlenecked rounds are the pits for handloading.

It's really too bad that Miller (Powell-Miller), Hutton and Ackley got lazy by blowing out belted rounds to fireform them and not setting the barrels back like they did on the improved rimless rounds.

The best cartridges of the early era where the 30 Newton and other Newton rounds along with the ones the great gun designers used.

I like the WSM's as they are better for handloading than the old stuff. I could do without the rebated rims however.

Savage, why do you say the belted cases are the pits for handloading? I never had a problem with my 300 Win or my 7 Rem Mag. I found them very easy to load for and I also got some of my very best groups from these two.

Doc,

Belted bottlenecked cartridges have way to much clearance at the shoulder and thus are not good choices for handloading or just "cartridges" for that matter. The belt on them is 100% a negative factor.

I've never had any problem loading a belted cartridge. Heck I didnt even know that they were suppost to be a problem until someone told me they where.
It doesnt matter to me if it has a belt or doesnt have a belt.

Strictly speaking there is nothing that needs to be done with a rifle that cannot be accomplished with the 22 long rifle, 223 Remington, 30'06, and 375 H&H, so all others may go.

quote:

Originally posted by Jarrod:
Heck I didnt even know that they were suppost to be a problem until someone told me they where.

huh, same here. I guess I've been lucky, I never knew (years ago), that they were negative and had to be overcome.

quote:

You mean IDEAL for deer. Anything smaller is on the small side for deer.

If you can't cleanly kill any deer that walks under any normal hunting situation with a 25-06,you should give up hunting deer and take up another hobby.

quote:

He should have recommended dropping all the RUM, RUM minis, WSM, WSSM, WSSSSSSSMM. All that repetitive crap that is only designed to seprerate Pilgrims from their money on new rifles.

Better Rifles not more weird ammunition.

quote:

just another reason I don't buy shooting rags anymore

Amen to the above! I think the whole short-mag mania is simply a way to sell more rifles to guys who already have perfectly good 'old' ones under the guise of being 'better'. If and extra 3 ounces of weight or 1/2" of bolt throw makes a difference I'm in over my head anyway!

Bob

quote:

Originally posted by stubblejumper:
If you can't cleanly kill any deer that walks under any normal hunting situation with a 25-06,you should give up hunting deer and take up another hobby.

Agree, and same goes for an elk with a 270.
But a 270 is more ideal for deer, like a 300 Win is for elk.

If I were forced to get rid of every rifle I own except for two, I would keep my 338RUM and my 300WSM. I love my 30/06 and I own and shoot several other calibers but these two are my favs. Most of the people that knock the new stuff have never had any experience with it. Am I right or am I right. I'll tell you a prejudice I have, and I have owned and shoot a couple of them, is anything with a 7mm bore. I don't hate them for any valid reason but I hate them with a passion.

quote:

Agree, and same goes for an elk with a 270.
But a 270 is more ideal for deer, like a 300 Win is for elk.

I wouldn't hesitate to take a texas heart shot on any deer with a 25-06,but I wouldn't attempt a texas heart shot on a large bull elk with a 270win.However I would with a 300win mag.

I wouldn't hesitate to take a 400 yard shot at any deer with a 25-06,but I wouldn't feel nearly as comfortable taking a 400 yard shot at a large bull elk with the 270win.

I've been away for a while but I seem to remember this very same topic discussed here under the heading "cartidges you could do without?"

I agree there are a very LARGE selection of cartridges from .223 to .338 but so what!

Remember all of the rifle/catrige companies are not public servise corporations put there to supply everything we want. It is a biusness dictated by profit for profit!!!! The same reasons Ford and Chevy drop add and change cars and trucks is the same reason Rem. Win. Ruger ect. develop different guns and cartriges to make profit!!I bet not once did a gun desighner in the major manufactures say to themself.....Hmmmmm I think we need a better .308 or .270 ect. NO!! they had bosses pushing to develope better selling products and dropping weaker selling ones.....It's all about a buck gentleman. Sorry

I agree with the guys who say to get rid of the RUMs, RIMs, SIMs, SAUMs,WSM's,WSSM's, or what ever the hell they are. I don't think the guys bashing the 27's ever used one. I don't hunt deer but I can claim that a .270 is one very fine caribou/sheep rifle. While I have no experience on them, I would guess they'd be quite adequate on elk as well. Have to admit that I'd rather have my .338 for them however.
As was pointed out - it's all about the holy buck with the manufacturers. They think they can convince the beginning nimrod he needs the "latest & greatest". Better the manufacturers should can the crap & concentrate on selling quality. My opinions and not worth very much. Bear in Fairbanks

The title of this thread should be Gun Writers we can do Without!!!

I used to like Boddington, but he has gotten silly. I can predict how his articles will read by the most trivial of clues.


Happy New Year,


Tom

Not that anybody in this thread is a troll, a lot of what was said is trolling with HUGE baits, myself included.

It has been proven there is no "better hammer" out there yet. For most people, the basics still apply. .224 to .243 for varmints, .25cal to .300 for deer, .338 and up for elk, moose and such, and .375 and up for bison, snd DG. A lot of folks have formulated their own opinions as to what is good medicine for what is being hunted, but for the most part some folks might agree with the above breakdown.

I don't think it is fair to completely bash the short and super short magnums unless you have used them personally. You can say what you want but I happen to love the 300 WSM. I have taken more than 25 deer (white tail and mule), a variety of African plains game (ranging in size from Sprinbok to Kudu), and coyotes with this caliber and it has done well across the board. The 300 WSM I use today replaced a 300 Weatherby I had previsouly. In the 30 caliber, will never look back. It isn't that the 300 Wby is a bad cartridge but the 300 WSM has delivered better consistent performance.

I just bought a 25 WSSM for my son's first rifle. I can't wait to see how it does on both thin skinned big game and varmints.

I agree with others that posted they would rather have better built rifles than another "new" caliber. I would go further and say that hunting success is more about knowing game and good shot placement than what caliber you are shooting.

One other thing to keep in mind: this hobby would get pretty boring if we only had three calibers to choose from for small (.223), medium (30-06), and dangerous game (375 or pick another).

The glass is half full guys.

Doug

Proof that gunwriters are around to fill in the blank spaces between advertising. They cant do an honest gun test so they drum up stupid subjects that are completely meaningless, like this one. I have an idea, how about we solve the idiodic "one gun for NA" and the "one gun for Africa and AK" notion that gunwriters and members of this forum are so fascinated with. Then get rid of everyting else.

Or else we could just shoot the guns and calibers were comfortable with and not get rid of anything.

quote:

If you can't cleanly kill any deer that walks under any normal hunting situation with a 25-0620 ,you should give up hunting deer and take up another hobby.

'nuff said.

quote:

Originally posted by stubblejumper:

quote:

You mean IDEAL for deer. Anything smaller is on the small side for deer.

If you can't cleanly kill any deer that walks under any normal hunting situation with a 25-06,you should give up hunting deer and take up another hobby.

I guess that is why you use a 7mmSTW Sorry, I just could not resist

BTW, Happy New Year and thank you for your advice over the years.

Personally i get by just fine with all my old deadbeat rifles-7x57-270-8x57 300 h-h etc. Don't feel to handicapped at all. altho i will have to admit the 7x57 was made in 74 so i guess i have something pretty new.

I use the 7mmstw because I wanted one cartridge for all game from deer to elk to moose.I used the 7mmstw for all of my hunting for several years.I have since begun using the 300ultramag for moose and elk and just kept on using the 7mmstw for deer sized game.If I was going to have a gun built specifically for deer it would use .257" bullets.

I didn't agree completely with the entire article, but I do think he is on the right track. For years, my motto has been "if WalMart doesn't sell it, then I don't need to shoot it" (ammo-wise). I have tried to hold to this in my gun purchases and currently only have one exception in my safe; a Blaser R-93 Prestige Safari in 375 H&H.

Here is a listing of the cartridges Boddington would do away with:
.218 Bee
.222 Rem Mag
.222
.225 Win
.220 Swift
6mm Rem
25-20
25-35
.250 Savage
.257 Roberts
.264 WM
6.5x55
7x57
7-30 Waters
.284 Win
7mmSTW
.300 Savage
30-40 Krag
.300 H&H Mag
32 Win Spec.
8x57
8mm Rem Mag
.356 Win
.348 Win
.358 Win
.375 Win

Craig seems a bit ambivalent about the +.400s

I may have missed one or two.

Notice that this list is made up of cartridges that are either:

1.ancient/obsolete
2.established commercial failures, or
3.European

No vested interest in these babies! In fact, wouldn't the rifle/cartridge manufacturers just love to get rid of a few of these so they could focus on their latest, high investment products. As a matter of fact, if I were a cartridge manufacturer with a big advertising budget, I might suggest to an editor that he commission an article suggesting just that. Come to think of it, didn't Craig say that right up front? Now I don't have a problem with that. Business is business, and new cartridges are what makes the rifle world go round. I just don't think anyone should take it personally if their favourite cartridge is on the hit list.

EXCEPT THE 7X57! THAT JUST PI$$ES ME OFF!