Craig, you are welcome to quote me on my previous post in your future articles.

Your fan,

Buliwyf

Doggonit, you got me. "Keep 'em all" is the absolute, correct answer. Along with: "Bring 'em all back" and "Bring us some new ones." But, after all, we all work for somebody, and your foregoing, correct message wasn't my assignment. In fulfilling my assignment, AS I WROTE, I trashed my personal favorites along with the rest. I thought I used at least a wee bit of logic rather than pure emotionalism, but for darn sure I did what my Editor wanted: I stirred things up!

Fortunately, nobody is going to act on that silly story. The greatest danger in my profession is for somebody like me to think that my opinion really matters, and I am under no such illusion.

The only thing, realistically, is I believe strongly that the "mom and pop" gunshop is important to our industry. We now have so ()*&)(*&^(*&^(& many cartridges that no small shop can stock them all. Deciding which to carry must be a very tough call!
Cheers, Craig

There is a lot of redundancy in cartridge choice, but the market will determine which cartridges stay and which move into the dust ben of history - not Boddington.

For me he lost credibility, when he said, "As much as I hate to say it, I feel the same about the .300 H&H Magnum. This is another cartridge that I personally revere. But no modern rifles are currently chambered to the great old .300 H&H, and it needs good handloads to reach its potential. Properly loaded, it's a better cartridge than the .300 Winchester Magnum and almost the equal of the .300 Weatherby--but modern factory loads are little better than the best .30-06 loads, and are just as well forgotten."

BETTER than the 300 Win Mag. Although not much difference, the H&H is not better than the 300 Win Mag.

Craigster

You managed to get ALL of my pet cartridges chambered in my prized rifles on the chopping block! .222 Rem, .264 Win, 7STW, .300 H&H etc, etc. Man, see what a terrific and prolific writer you are Who else could stir up this much fuss

Your opinion matters to me, but I'm keeping my good stuff. Ha Ha

Craig, you went back over a year and a half to resurrect that thread, got a little extra time on your hands?

Like you I'm a lefty and as such many old cartridges have no sentimental value at all to me. If people could get away from sentiment and use logic and reasoning there would be alot more agreement rather than vitriol. But then, what a boring world it would be.

I agree with many of your choices and would add 75% of the lever action rifle cartridges.

Cartridges we can do without would be all but .22 LR, .223, .30-06 and .375 H&H. All the rest we can certainly do without, but that should never be said around a bunch of riflemen.

Gidday Craig,

If you think these guys are a bit rough you want to check out the guys on the 24hr campfire.

Man they are positively brutal over there. I much prefer this site as they are more the gentlemen here. Very civilised by comparison and more in keeping with mature men of class.

They really are a good bunch of guys who occasionally get carried away.

It happens when people are so passionate about a subject.

We don't have to do without any of the cartridges listed so it is all hypothetical anyway

Happy Hunting

Hamish

"for darn sure I did what my Editor wanted: I stirred things up!"

"least part of the time my editors pay me to be a jerk."

With all due respect, when someone "stirs the pot" to no good end, or worse, for their own commercial end, we usually refer to them as a Troll. Generating 'discussion'(read anger) and creating divisivness to sell an article or couple more magazines is sad.

Secondly, when someone offers you money to be a jerk, you don't have to take their 30 pieces of silver. I turn down questionable but profitable business all the time, because my self respect and reputabtion and credibility are not for sale. I understand it is just one article but it is the principle that is important.

Best regards,
Bob

quote:

Originally posted by Wooly ESS:
Here is a listing of the cartridges Boddington would do away with:
.218 Bee
.222 Rem Mag
.222
.225 Win
.220 Swift
6mm Rem
25-20
25-35
.250 Savage
.257 Roberts
.264 WM
6.5x55
7x57
7-30 Waters
.284 Win
7mmSTW
.300 Savage
30-40 Krag
.300 H&H Mag
32 Win Spec.
8x57
8mm Rem Mag
.356 Win
.348 Win
.358 Win
.375 Win

I thought it might be intresting to make up a battery fron craigs schitz list.

First one I'm keeping is the 222 Rem.

Next is the 250 Savage. That for all those people that really believe they have some advantage with a short action.

Next the 6.5x55. I couldn't do without one of them.129gr class bullets as a deer cartridge

Next the 7x57. 154/160 gr bullets for an elk rifle. Hell I'd even shoot a moose with it!

next a 300H&H just because your supposed to have a 30 cal or your un-american.

I'd use the 222 Rem and the 250 Savage for mid and long range varmits.

6.5x55 for Antelope and deer up to 853#!

7X57 for deer, elk, sheep and goats up to 1421#!

300H&H I would bring out to show my buddies while we are watching the super bowl.

Harumph!!!

quote:

First one I'm keeping is the 222 Rem.

Exactly. Anyone who would even suggest 'doing away' with the .222 Remington should be beaten with a Shillelagh.

The root of this probably lies in the fact that left handed shooters, such as CB, can't get many, if any, of those cartidges listed in a factory left handed rifle.

So they get angry and lash out.

You guys crack me up!

You are all acting as if Craig Boddington chose which one of the ten commandments to get rid of.

He had an assignment from his editor to write the article.
He made his choices.
If you don't agree with them WHO CARES!!!!

I would like to add the 7mmRSAUM to the list.
It doesn't have very many factory loads for it.
There are very few rifles available for it.
It could be argued that the 7mm WSM is the more sensible choice.

All of these factors aside I wouldn't sell MY Remington model 7 in 7mmRSAUM for three times what I paid for it.

I hope I didn't jeopardize my integrity or credibility by stating my own opinion.

quote:

for darn sure I did what my Editor wanted: I stirred things up!

no, wait! it was actually a big conspiracy to "rally the troops" in support of the very cartridges slated for elimination!

the ammo companies will now market them as "classics" and offer premium ammo "for a limited time" and make a ton of money! buy yours now before they are all gone!

and for each box they sell, CB gets a dollar!

*this is all tongue-in-cheek, by the way......

I read the article and found myself agreeing with him for the most part. I figured that most of the rounds that he listed that needed to be discontinued from commercial production are pretty much hand loader specials anyway. Let’s face it how many people who shoot the .222 Remington and .220 Swift actually go out and buy commercial ammo.

Since I started reloading I've rarely bought commercially loaded ammunition, unless I find it dirt cheap. I only reload .30-40 Krag at the present time that was on the list, and I've never bought factory ammunition for that rifle. At $40 dollars a box the last time I saw it in the store why would I? $40 gets me a pound of powder and nearly 100 bullets depending on manufacturer.

I never once read where Craig said that they should become extinct, just that they don't need to be commercially produced anymore. In fact I remember reading that he wouldn't give up his 7X57; just that he didn't use commercial ammunition anymore. So I can kind of agree with him as long as new brass will still be available why by the commercial cartridge.

Let's face it to realize the true potential out of our rifles we have to hand load anyway. Someone should start a poll of the cartridges that were listed to see how many of us buy 100+ rounds per year of commercially loaded ammunition in those calibers. I’ll bet you would not find too many of us that do.

Well since my wife uses a 257 Roberts and I have a 6.5x55 that I use occasionally, I guess she will have to quit hunting, and I will bear the ignominity of being stuck using either my 375 H&H/35 Whelen/300 Weatherby since none of those made "The List".

Craig Boddington is just a writer that has had a lot of experience, but he is still paid to do the articles, so this one stirred some folks up, BFD.

Some of you folks that have got their knickers bunched so tight in their crack that they can't fart, go out and try buying a box of factory loads for some of the cartridges listed.

I don't mean at a speciality gun shop either, and even in some of those it is hard to find some of the ones off of "The List".

"The List", was just one mans opinion on a subject, whether he was being paid to write about it or not is immaterial, it was HIS OPINION, and we ALL know about opinions.

They are like A-Holes everyone has one and it stinks.

I dont like the wsms or wsms.They are fadinmg out already.The Remington short mags are about gone along with the ultra mags.The wsms were just a trick to people into buying something new.The 6,5 mm,8 mm and .358s do not do good in America either.The 7x57 caces have not done good.The 308 family has done well so has the 30-06 family and the 338 family.There are too many .308 calibers and too many 7nn calibers.Every caliber is coved well.We need better bullets and better guns and scopes but not many more calibers.Most new things are just gimicks to get us to buy new things.

Hey fellows, Boddington can have his opinion as well as we can, it is just that his platform is on a scope that is somewhat larger than ours. ----- The only chambering I own and shoot extensively he has on his list is my old tried and true 7mm STW. Will his opinion cause me go get rid of is, certainly not. It has taken to much game and will shoot a ragged hole with 160 grain North Forks any day that I am having a good day pulling the trigger. The WSM's might be doomed but as far as I am concerned my .270 WSM will never go anywhere except with me to Colorado as a Mule Deer rifle and backup for Elk. It is simply a 200 plus fps improvement on the venerable .270 Winchester, which was already fantastic. I don't know who thought it up, but I am damn glad they did, instead of setting back and saying, "we don't need anything new". I shoot a couple of .338 chamberings that are somewhat redundent, but each has a long history with my and my son and grandsons. My .340 Wby went with me for years to Colorado and Alaska and will remain in my safe, after many Elk,Mule Deer and a huge Alaskan Yukon Moose. My .338 Lapua is a real whizzer and my Grandson thinks there is no other Elk rifle on earth. He has taken Elk with it and so have I. Hell I shoot two .358 STA's, why, because in my opinion it beats the hell out of the .375 H&H. Now, I bet there are some here that think that is a numb scull opinion, but that is what makes the idiots here at AR tick, we all can do our thing and talk about it. ----- The bottom line is, we all think we shoot the best and we may, but the next guy has his opinions based uniquely on his experience, so lighten up, live and let live. Good shooting.

This thread cracks me up. If gun manufacturers weren't pumping out a constant stream of new crap, you gun nuts would have nothing to carp about! Your worst nightmare.....

My favorite rifles are a .270 and a .300 RUM. I'm obviously bi-polar or something.

Most of my favorites are on the list:
220 Swift
6mm Rem
250 Savage
257 Roberts
6.5X55
7X57
300 H&H

The truth of the matter is that we could do without any one particular sporting cartrige in existence. It would have been more interesting to see an article written about how we should let the 270, 30-06 and 375 H&H fade away because they are so good and so flexible that they hamper new cartridge introductions.

I'd like to support mom and pop gunshops too, but for the life of me I don't even know where to find one in my town. The internet retailers of reloading components are what has rekindled interest in so many classic cartridges. If I were dependent on local supply alone, I'd be shooting only a 270.

quote:

Originally posted by Savage99:
Doc,

Belted bottlenecked cartridges have way to much clearance at the shoulder and thus are not good choices for handloading or just "cartridges" for that matter. The belt on them is 100% a negative factor.

Oh horsepucky! Once you've fireformed the case, just set up your die to headspace on the shoulder and quit worrying about it. It's not that big a deal unless you make it one..
Paul B.

Sometimes I think that all the critism at Craig Boddington's writings stem from just a tad of the "Green Eyed Monster". sure, we disagree with what he wrote, especially in this article, but down deep inside, and I damn well include myself in this statement, we're jealous as hell of all the hunts he gets to do, regardless if they're freebies or not.
I don't agree with some of the choices he made on the cartridges. In fact, I think I must have read that article when it first came out, because at the next gun show, I found a better than life time supply of 7x57 and .358 Win. brass at a darn good price. Come to think of it, it was a while later that Craig wrote a couple of decent articles on the 7x57 and .358 Win. stating that he liked them very much.
Interesting thing happened with that .358 brass. When I was running the necks though the die to insure they were round, 6 rounds would not go into the shell holder. Now, in my cartridge collection, I have 6 pieces of .356 Win. brass stamped .358 Win. (That and a two dollar bill might buy me a cup of .)
Paul B.

I think maybe a better title may have been, "Cartridges that if they disappeared, the world wouldn't cry" The .222 is a great cartidge, but it has been supplanted by the .223 so much that its future isn't a certain. The 220 Swift is a classic but unfortunately, the 22-250 is the king of that realm. The 257 ROberts is a great cartidge, but the 243 has rooted itself in the low kicking do everything rifle dept.

In a way, the article called attention to some older cartridges that have slipped from the mainstream. Try to find a rifle chambered for 257 roberts and you will see what I mean. Everyone likes to bash gun writers, mostly because their gospel doesn't match yours. I think the only thing worse is golf equipment reviewers.

If I were to make a list of cartridges that should be done away with, I think I would receive death threats from half of America. But then again, maybe thats half the fun....

John

I don't own a 270win,or a 30-06 and have not missed either.I guess that I can do without them.

quote:

Originally posted by stubblejumper:
I don't own a 270win,or a 30-06...

I knew there was something about you that was just a little off-kilter.

quote:

I knew there was something about you that was just a little off-kilter.

I never was much for choosing anything based on popularity.

I am not so sure the Swedes or for that matter the Scandinavians would let go of the 6.5 x 55 mm. Is it not still their millitary issue rifle?

Warrior

quote:

I am not so sure the Swedes or for that matter the Scandinavians would let go of the 6.5 x 55 mm. Is it not still their millitary issue rifle?

it's a long time ago since we(Norway) got rid of the 6.5 for military use.
in 1966 we offically adopted the HK G3 in 7.62x51.
(i loved that rifle, it was sad when i had to turn it in, the last day of my military service).

and the swedes doesn't use it anymore either.

.270 should be on top of that list.

Boddington?No use for his opinions.....

I really can't see what all the fuss is over. Every sporting cartridge designed since 1912 has been superfluous. Obviously, then, there has come to be redundant designs. That's not to say any cartridge is now useless, only that there is no compelling need for all of them. Three or four cartridges are all that are ever needed.

I enjoy your writings, and as a fellow Winchester 71 .348 owner and fan, how can you not be a good guy. Plus you have written glowingly about the .358 Winchester, just about my favorite cartridge.

You put them on the block in this article, which was a simple magazine assignment and not a crusade to desecrate the Sistine Chapel.

Good luck and I will still shoot and enjoy several others on your list.