quote:

Maybe you should review what I have said.I dont remember ever saying anything about "Texas sucks".Ever.Certainly not "everybody in texas sucks".If you can find somewhere i did say something like that,Im sure you will point it out.

And I am not part of any "group".Anything I say is my opinion and mine alone.Anyone that agrees or disagrees with me is just that.

that makes two of us, jb - in fact, i've gone out of my way to enter dialogue with our texan cousins and learn a few things from them.

the problem is that SOME (certainlynot all) of them can't stand an opposing view.

quote:

No Sir, I don't exactly recall you saying it, but as part of a group that all have similar opinions about Texans and the way we hunt, there is such a concept as "Guilt By Association".

Don't set there and try to say that you do not lump all Texans together as a group, and to go along with that you consider how we hunt in Texas as not really being hunting.

Yo shit head, please point out to me in the preceeding statement at which point I said that, you said ANYTHING sucked.

Can't do it can you?

YOU ARE THE ONE that started with the SUCK business.

Also contrary to your popular belief, Guilt By Association is a real concept.

Now, do you just have this real, unfullfilled urge to keep trying to put words into YOUR OWN MOUTH.

Let's see, how many times have you tried to get a Texans Only forum started on the AR?????

Actually,I think Ive figured out the problem. The problem is,anytime someone posts up a photo or a Texas hunting story,they get a rash of shit about it.
And, rightfully so, Texans get pissed off about it.I dont blame them.
The trouble starts when the rest of us see it and right away we associate Texas = High Fence Game Farm.
The old guilty by association story. Its hard to tell the difference from here.They all say fair chase.Its hard to tell if your a real hunter or a poser who just spent $10k to get his face on the internet with a big buck penis extension,or somebody looking to advertise his high fence operation.I cant tell which is which from here.I checked out your website and you look to me like an honest fair chase guy I wouldnt mind spending some coin to come down and hunt with you.But when I see this

I have to cry foul.I have quite a few more photos like that I could put up,their everywhere on the net,but you get the idea,some of them have the ranch name on them,and I dont know what kind of operation they run,and wont drag anyone else into it.
Now landowners have every right to do what they want.BUT I also have a right to not agree with it.
When I try to start a Texas only forum(3 times) it is because of things like this.The rest of you get lumped in because of...GUILTY BY ASSOCIATION.Maybe I should have called it a high fence hunting forum,that would be a better term.Maybe I should write DRG and thank him for turning my ass down three times before we got to the real problem.
Now Im gonna go move some snow.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazy:

Guilt By Association is a real concept.

that goes both ways, skippy.

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by Crazy:

Guilt By Association is a real concept.


that goes both ways, skippy.

1. Did I say it didn't?????????

2. At WHICH point, did I say it was a GOOD thing???????????

quote:

Actually,I think Ive figured out the problem.

quote:

But when I see this

The trouble is not the picture, it is what is in the picture, and is one of the reasons sometimes I am glad I don't do the deer hunting on the ranch we do the hunts on.

More specifically, the antlers on the deer is the problem.

Let me see if I can shuck this ear of corn all the way to the cob.

I may piss off a few fellow Texans, and I may accidentally change some opinions of the folks that are so down on Texas.

I killed my first white tail in 1970 in young county Texas, on a 150 acre pasture that was in a regroth period after having had all of the brush bull dozed. I had just turned 19.

The state wide limit at that time was 1 buck, and the deer herd was pretty well limited to certain areas, due to the land management practices in use during that period.

I had sub-leased that 150 acres from a friend for the amazing sum of $25.00.

I went out to the place one time, and the next morning thru a combination of my good luck in seeing the deer before he saw me and his dumb luck for not seeing me, I killed an 8 point buck.

My first deer and it was a buck. At that point in time the newspaper in Graham was asking all hunters to come by so they could take pictures of their bucks to put in the newspaper.

I was damn proud of that deer, my very first deer and an 8 point buck to boot.

Now I was hooked.

I lived thru the time when a group of 8 hunters could lease a 500 acre chunk of really good deer country for a dollar an acre.

As time went on I managed to keep killing a deer most years, maybe a couple of deer once they started opening more counties up for doe hunting.

Now to fast forward a little, in 1987, my first wife and I divorced and until just before I met and married Lora, I had gotten completely out
of hunting.

For some reason I had started back to looking at outdoor magazines and realized something was missing in my life besides a good woman and figured out it was hunting.

Well, after Lora and I married, I got to looking around trying to find places to deer hunt.

I had lost track so much with what had happened to deer hunting in Texas that I was totally amazed at the transformation.

When I had stopped hunting white tails, I didn't even know how big or who had killed the B&C World Record, The Jordan Buck.

Now, I am hearing teen agers and even 10 and 12 year olds spouting off figures about the length or mass of the G-2's.

When I first started hearing that crap, I thought maybe they were talking about some new kind of womens underwear.

What had happened to deer hunting in Texas was Buckmasters and Texas Trophy Hunters Association.

They saw the opportunity to do for deer hunting and the deer hunting public, what the Bassmasters orginazation had done for bass fishing.

What it has done, has placed hunting out of reach for many Texans.

It has created a generation or two of arrogant assdholes that judge everyones deer by B&C scores, and god forbid that you post a picture or stop and show off something that does not measure up to their standards, because by God they are going to call you every kind of low life, no ethics, non sportsman asshole they can think of, and I have seen cases where this geniuses were doing this to some one with the first deer they ever killed.

You want to see some damn fine arguements over the high fence issue, get on one of the Texas based forums.

The problem is, that we have the infights among ourselves and we don't take kindly to it when an outsider starts slinging crap.

Outsiders don't have to live with looking at never being able to hunt in state again or hoping to be able to afford a doe hunt or trying to hunt on public land that is bordered by private land bristling with feeders and blinds.

Since the Founding Fathers of texas felt that Private Land Ownership was the cornerstone of Texas's future, they did not set much land aside for public use.

So now we have the situation that hunting on private land gets higher and higher every year, more and more feet of high fence goes up every year due in part to land owners wishing to protect their investement, and in part so that the land owner can better manage his deer herd for optimal financial income, "Big Bucks, Mean Big $$$$$'s".

So for some of us, it is a case of where we know first hand what have to deal with, and we know how it got that way.

So, unlike a puppy that gets his nose rubbed into a pile of shit and then runs away whimpering, we turn around and bite at the hand that was holding us doing the rubbing.

Real honest opinion, and not All Texans share it, but many do, the reasons why things are the way they are in Texas with deer hunting specifically and most hunting in general are, in order of importance and the role it plays in the situation:

1. Hunter greed and the competition factor.

I shot a bigger buck than you did, so that means if you want to kill a bigger buck, your going to have to go somewhere and pay more money, and lots of people do just that.

TP&W and their Master Plan for making Texas the Go To State for Trophy Deer, some folks will deny that, and they may also deny that TP&W is not trying to make Texas the Go To State for Trophy Black Bass.

3. Land Owners and their goals and desires.

The reason I rate land owners last in this scenario, is because if hunters as a group were not willing to pay the prices, the prices would not have reached the levels they are at.

One thing I can say that would be a pretty safe bet, and that is, if deer did not have antlers, the situation that exists today probably would not exist.

Hunters are the main culprit for the reasons wht Texas is the way it is in regards to hunting.

Those of us that have set and watched what has happened don't like being reminded by an outsider of something we live with on a daily basis.

what has happened to hunters in texas has been pretty muchily self inflicted, we just don't like people reminding us

We don't like it when we are all lumped together, because there are lots of Texans that have never and if they have their way, will never hunt a high fence property.

There are lots of Texans that feel all high fences should be torn down.

There are lots of Texan that rarely if ever hunt deer in Texas, preferring to go out of state and take their chances.

So when folks start with the lumping and throwing on the shit, we are going to pitch a bitch.

3% of texas is public lands
.1% of hunting lands are high fenced...
the first limit on hunting WILL lead to more limits on hunting...

this isn't canned hunting, chaps.. that is ILLEGAL in texas... if you have PROOF feel free to post it, if you have conjecture, why don't you state it as such?

you've gone from one end to the other, especcially to the ridiculous of civil war.


you are on about .1% of the hunting in Texas... pretty much sifting fly specks from the pepper.

if it's soo easy, especially like "shooting fish in a barrel" .. come find my lime green barrel. We haven't challenged that you are doing it wrong, or unethical, however, ya'll seem to feel it's okay to freely do so to Texans.

Keep on bitching.. i am certain the anti's are eating this up... and I don't believe you would rather see the first limits of hunting based off this.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
3% of texas is public lands
.1% of hunting lands are high fenced...
the first limit on hunting WILL lead to more limits on hunting...

this isn't canned hunting, chaps.. that is ILLEGAL in texas... if you have PROOF feel free to post it, if you have conjecture, why don't you state it as such?

you've gone from one end to the other, especcially to the ridiculous of civil war.


you are on about .1% of the hunting in Texas... pretty much sifting fly specks from the pepper.

if it's soo easy, especially like "shooting fish in a barrel" .. come find my lime green barrel. We haven't challenged that you are doing it wrong, or unethical, however, ya'll seem to feel it's okay to freely do so to Texans.

Keep on bitching.. i am certain the anti's are eating this up... and I don't believe you would rather see the first limits of hunting based off this.

Jeffe,

I completely agree with you. However, I believe your figure for high fencing is a little off. I believe roughly 1% of Texas is high fenced, not 0.1%. Texas has a land area of 268,581 sq. mi. which is 171,891,840 acres. 0.1% would only be 171,891 acres and I can name just a handful of high fenced ranches that total more than that. Maybe 1% is really what you meant to say because that would be 1,718,918 acres. Like I said, I agree with you but I just wanted to point that out.

quote:

What had happened to deer hunting in Texas was Buckmasters and Texas Trophy Hunters Association.

They saw the opportunity to do for deer hunting and the deer hunting public, what the Bassmasters orginazation had done for bass fishing.

What it has done, has placed hunting out of reach for many Texans.

It has created a generation or two of arrogant assdholes that judge everyones deer by B&C scores, and god forbid that you post a picture or stop and show off something that does not measure up to their standards, because by God they are going to call you every kind of low life, no ethics, non sportsman asshole they can think of, and I have seen cases where this geniuses were doing this to some one with the first deer they ever killed.

+1 Crazy.

I think we would be kidding ourselves to say we are not looking for nice trophies, but, the trophy is in the eye of the beholder!

There is no better trophy than a kid's first, be it a doe or a spike. How is anyone to determine what is a trophy for me?

Crazy is right in saying that deer hunting is going the way of Bass fishing. Show up with a limit of 15" Black Bass to take home and fry at a boat ramp in this state and you are treated like a Leper. "How will those fish ever grow up to be wall hangers if you kill 'em that small?". I could care less, I go fishing to catch some fish to eat. Speckled trout fishing is going that way fast too. Artificial only, no live bait, my way is the only right way, I am getting sick of it. Every body has to measure their "johnson" by the size of what they have hangin' on the wall. I'll just keep mine ( my johnson that is) in my pants.

Now, with everything I have said, and the stuff the rest of us Texans have said, the fact remains, polarizing into camps and berating people for something they may or may not do, does nothing to change the fact that ANY form of hunting that is being threatened by worthless, emontion based and driven, calls for new legislation to abolish it, is a threat to ALL hunting.

Anyone that does not see that is closed minded and blind and is only is only holding out, with the naieve hope that what they think is hunting will be left alone.

Take a hint from what is happening to smokers all over the U.S..

If they pass this legislation about high fences, then they will find something else, such as the use of archery equipment and the perception that archers wound and lose more animals than rifle hunters.

If they get legislation passed to stop archery hunting, then they will find something else.

All of the poor deluded bastards that think they will squeek by unscathed are not able to comprehend the idea, that the more forms of hunting that are outlawed will have the cumulative effect of making the outlawing of ALL hunting that much easier and quicker.

The issue isn't "oh, the trophy" or "oh, the meat" .. hunting, in america, TODAY, is sport hunting, period. It doesn't matter if you are like me "i don't care about antlers, I can't eat them" or if you paid $20k for a 220pt deer.

I bet if we asked a couple deer that they don't care if they are shot for meat or horns, as they are just as dead and deer can't talk anyway.

If you don't like the ways we hunt in texas, great, state that, and keep going. If you insist on being a jackhole about it, then don't be surprised if you receive like replies.
ES,
.1 or 1 %, either are flyspecs in the pepper ...


If you honestly think hunting in a high fence is shooting fish in a barrel, why don't you come show me and find my neon green barrel? Excuses as to why not are the last resort of those who's arguements have lost validity.

I don't care how you hunt where you are from, and you are welcome to it. Why don't you try that attitude?

Petition signed. #1247

We're all hunters. We need to band together against the anti's. Stop the childish name calling and the "holier than thou" attitude that my way of hunting is better that yours. A skilled hunter can sucessfully hunt a animal regardless if it is on 100 acres or 10,000 acres.

quote:

Originally posted by buffybr:
Petition signed. #1247

We're all hunters. We need to band together against the anti's. Stop the childish name calling and the "holier than thou" attitude that my way of hunting is better that yours. A skilled hunter can sucessfully hunt a animal regardless if it is on 100 acres or 10,000 acres.

Well put.