I will also post this in Canada forum.

1) I'm going to Ontario for discounted wolf hunt in Feb. There seems to be evidence with some barrel makers that smaller contour bbls are not a good idea in extreme cold (Krieger for instance). I plan on taking a couple of rifles that have SS bbls with OD of about 0.600 to 0.630 (#2s and #3s if I recall). The makers are Broughton-Richards, Pacnor, and Obermeyer. Anyone think I'll have a problem with temps that could be as low as -30, -40?

2) I've never hunted with it that cold so I'll need some gear. A year or so ago, another member recommended a store in Alaska but I cannot recall what store. Also, I've always been a fan of Danner boots, but what is the best ultra cold boot?

i don't believe you'll have rifle trouble, but make sure that you clean out the lube from inside the bolt. in cold weather the best is nothing at all, so you will have nothing to freeze up on you.
so far as clothes i"m very fond of down. its light and very warm. layered vest/parka will take you into some mighty cold spots and stay warm. boots - lacrosse or sorrel. (not sure if sorrel are around anymore) the double lined kind. felt and poly & nice heavy wood socks. Mittens not gloves, usually in 2 layers with ragg wool inside layer with the flip top fronts for shooting and a soft easy to pull off outer mitten. Head gear - I like a nice warm cap w/ ear muffs and a brim so that when I flip up the hood on the parka the hat brim keeps the hood from falling over my eyes. Also a balaclavia to keep face warm. Nice hot buttered rum with a cinnamon stick at the end of the day

Doc--get hold of-NORTHERN OUTFITTERS-FOR YOUR COLD WEATHER GEAR.

one other thing - if you go todown, make sure its not a mixture with feathers (most stuff is - in fine print) the feathers will chew up the down

butchloc mentioned going without lube which is perfectly fine. However, if you prefer using a lube, stick with products that use a dry graphite. Works well for me in temps. below the zero mark.

How do I get the lube out of my bolt?

Doc,

If you are handloading the ammo that you will be using, please check around on the behavior of the powder at those temps. I shoot all winter down to -30 to -50 up here. I have seen loads that are near max at 80 degrees be damn near squib loads at -30. My 338-378 was a real nightmare in cold temps until I began using some powders that didn't change characteristics under severe cold.

Joe

Flush it til you can't anymore with a can of WD-40 then clean out the WD-40 with alcohol. I hunt bird til the end of December and never had trouble leaving WD-40 in a gun, but if you are seriously going to be working at -40 I would clen that out with the alcohol. Steger Mukluks from Ely for your feet Lots of hand warmer packs for your fingers since you have to shoot.

Thanks.

Joe, I do handload and intend to load as hot as tolerable here which is, on average, about 15 degrees when really cold.

I was thinking of switching to magnum primers too.

Should I stick with a slower powder in a 270 like Re22 with a magnum primer or go with a medium powder, like 4350? I do not have the experience in this matter.

In my experience the slower the powder, the more the pressure drops. H870 was the worst. It caused the entire case to blacken and the chrono showed a loss of 700fps with a 100 degree temp difference from the time the load was assembled to the time it was fired. RL-25 was better but still showed a great reduction in pressure. Retumbo was the solution. Even with out the case being as full as with some other powders, Retumbo maintained a far greater percentage of it's velocity than any other powder. Hodgdon at one time was marketing what they called extreme powders for hunting in different temps with the same load. I am sure a call to them would be far more help than I can be.

Joe

I have sold a few stories documenting the effects of cold weather on powders and MVs. Hodgdon Extreme Powders are the best. The worst is just about any spherical powder. I don't think the burn rate has as much to do with it extruded vs spherical.

I did most of my work in MN, but you can do the same thing by sticking rounds in the freezer.

This is good info, since I'll be loading for 2 hunters including myself.

OK, so, I'm taking my 30.06 that has some 185 VLDs over Varget if I recall, so that should be ok.

Now, as for the 270, I will likely load a 150 VLD or a 130 Barnes TTSX. I have lots of H4350 which falls into Hodgdon's Extreme Powder list.

Does anyone think that maybe I should go to an even faster powder, like IMR4064?

What's the next fasted Hodgdon powder next to 4350? Anyone think Varget would be ok in the 270?

I use Varget here in 270, 30-06, 300 WM and 243. I have only fired it at about -10, I don't think colder I have been surprised at how little temperature affects it compared to what I expected. I have not run chrono test to see what the whole effect was though. It seems to be pretty consistent between zero and +85. I have not seen noticeable chrono variation between +20 and +85.

I have always like 4350 for medium weight stuff. But I would start with Varget and 110/130 TTSxs for very cold weather wolf hunting

I did shoot one deer at 140 yards and at about 15 degrees with 130 grain TTSXs over 53 grains of Varget in my '06 this year. I had been out in the stand for six hours so the ammo was all the way cold. It whacked the snot out of that one.

Thanks!

A word from Crucible steel:

I spoke with Bill at Crucible (metallurgist, 40 years). I cannot quote exactly but here's what he had to say:

416R was first used by and for Hart barrel company. If a bbl was going to blow up we'd have heard about it by now. We were asked to test the 416R steel to -40 degrees. We have not tested it any colder. I am comfortable telling you that to -40 you will be ok. I cannot say it better than that.

Doc. 4350 should be fine. I have sat it out all day in Manitoba with it way down there in temp, and fired test rounds every day out to 250 yads. No chrono, but on target. I have also done a test with rounds in the freezer for a few days , and then shot within seconds of removal in my friends back yard range, 4350 was one of the powders we liked the performance of without a whole lot of science, we just went by the target face.

For your bolt, just disassemble it, blast all the lube out with something like Powder Blast citrus, which will clean it squeaky clean, and then get you some Bore Tec 'Tef Dri' I followed their recommendations and heated the parts of my bolts, including the spring, and applied Tef Dri. I did all my bolts that way, so I don't worry about them anymore in cold weather, and I don't have to think about which rifle is cool for the cold

Oh yeah, take a look at Ravenwear, I've just ordered some, one of my hunting pals has a ton of it, and it is real quality stuff, usually made to fit custom, so may take too long for you, but they do stock some stuff so you may be good to go. Worth a look.

I'll be interested to hear about your hunt--Best Luck!

Doc:

I did test Varget; it had less variation between cold and hot than the natural variation in a constant temperature. Don't worry about it.

I didn't test 4350, but I did test 4831 and it was pretty temp stable as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
How do I get the lube out of my bolt?

Take it apart and boil all the parts with some non-corrosive detergent...I use a regular stainless pot with distilled water and dish soap...you should see the lube float to the top.

Living in Coldland, I take all of my bolts apart, degrease them with any of the available spray degreasers, then lube them with Dry-Slide, or equivalent. No liquid lubes for mating, moving parts at all, like firing pins, etc.
For Remington bolts, Sinclair sell's a special tool for disassembling them. I have one and it takes the mystery out of bolt disassembly.

Don

Doc:

Make sure you have all your paperwork in order when you bring that wolf back to the US. A friend of mine shot one and did not get the right stuff from USFW. Now there isn't a taxidermist anywhere who will touch it. He is working with his guide/outfitter to fix it, but it is at the very least causing some frustration and extra work.

quote:

Originally posted by AnotherAZWriter:
Doc:

Make sure you have all your paperwork in order when you bring that wolf back to the US. A friend of mine shot one and did not get the right stuff from USFW. Now there isn't a taxidermist anywhere who will touch it. He is working with his guide/outfitter to fix it, but it is at the very least causing some frustration and extra work.

Thank you. I will check into that.

Take good care of your head and face. I have a custom made fleece Balaclava, find one, doesn't need to be custom. Keep a face cover with you, I have an old split deer hide number. Lightweight and worth its weight in wolf hides when the wind blows. Make sure your clothing allows you to over lap your coat cuff to glove joint. Chemical hand and foot warmers are priceless. They need air to work therefore do not do well in some boots. Lots of layers. Just make sure you can reach your buddy when nature calls

Youp makes good points about keeping warm.
One thing I do to keep my wrists warm, where the coat sleeve and the glove gauntlet don't quite get the job done, is to take old socks and cut the straight shaft part of the sock off, and use these as wrist gaitors. Sure makes hunting in cold weather enjoyable, as opposed to having cold wrists all the time.

Don

Brake parts cleaner or Gun Scrubber works great for removing oil from the bolt. I use it on my auto pistols when I do a deep cleaning. I lube everything after of coarse but to remove all oil this works like a charm. Never damaged a finished with it as some have claimed. Used it for over 10 years with zero issues.

Don't forget a hankie either, no better way to ruin a cold weather hunt than have snot running in your clean bolt and freezing up your rifle.

drylube is the only thing I have used so far, never had an issue down to -10. If its colder than that I'm stayin' home!

if you're sitting, this is the way to go:
http://www.heaterbodysuit.com/

As far as the head goes, this is my go to in extreme weather:http://www.maxit-inc.com/products/dd.html

A ball cap helps with sun blocking and keeping it from coming near the eyes, but it has a pull cord system that is very adjustable.

quote:

Originally posted by ztreh:
Doc--get hold of-NORTHERN OUTFITTERS-FOR YOUR COLD WEATHER GEAR.

ztreh, is this stuff noisy from Northern?

quote:

Also, I've always been a fan of Danner boots, but what is the best ultra cold boot?

A pair of Mickey Mouse boots with some quality socks are hard to beat, unless you are doing a lot of walking. Just make sure you can dry them out a little each night and change socks. Get a box of hand warmers to.

I'm pretty sure we will take about a thousand warmers!

quote:

Originally posted by kudu56:

quote:

Also, I've always been a fan of Danner boots, but what is the best ultra cold boot?

A pair of Mickey Mouse boots with some quality socks are hard to beat, unless you are doing a lot of walking. Just make sure you can dry them out a little each night and change socks. Get a box of hand warmers to.

I used to buy Danners also. I find them heavy now. I don't think they make anything for extreme temps. I would probably look at the Sorels or Cabelas for an extreme cold boot. Another thing I use now is instead of those little hand warmers, I buy the medical grade back and neck heat packs. They are larger, have an adhesive that will stick to your shirt and keep you warm all day. I have gotten heat out of those things for 12 hours. Not bad for the price. You can cut the neck ones in half and stuff each half in a mitten, or just get one of those hand warmers that both hands fit in at the same time. A nice light shooting glove is all you need then for the big moment. Things can happen fast so it helps to be ready.

Another couple of options for boots is Schnee's or White's. They both make pretty good pac-boots, and they aren't too bad to walk in.

Doc,

If you're not chasing them down and doing alot of hiking, then take a look at Cabelas exterme standhunter bibs and parka. I purhased the bibs and used them in -7 with 35 mph winds and laughed my ass off at the cold. These have been the warmest clothing I've found to date. As for boots, I'd suggest any quality pac boot with smartwool socks.

Go to the Alaska forum and ask about cold weather hunting gear and rifle preparation. And by cold, I don't mean the -10 F temp where everything works for a few hours. Serious problems don't really start until you're somewhere in the "30's". With the right setup of gun and gear, you'll do fine but what I had to learn by trial and error over many years is that getting reliable advice on cold weather gear and clothing (and guns)is not easy and for one hunt, trial and error is not a good idea. Much of the advice I was given was from persons who extrapolated from their cold weather experience at -10 F to confident statements about operating at -40 F which they had not acutally experienced. That simply doesn't work. With that said, for starters: bunny boots for footwear, white gas to rinse out the lube, and a nice sloppy Winchester model 70 action that is leasy to defrost if needed.

Doc, I've hunted with Peter Martin of Kap River Outfitters a couple of times up there at temps as low as -50F. I to have heard the rumors of barrels, SS especially having problems, but have not personally witnessed it's occurance. As to clothing, windproof, layered with alternating natural vs manmade fibers. Also from my Saskatchewan deer days came the "Boot Blankets" a Cabella's offering which is like a mini portable sleeping bag for your feet when stationary. Regular cold weather boots for mobility. Snow mobile type mitts and light weight under gloves that you would be able to shoot with while wearing.

By all means discuss how the hunt will be conducted as there are manys means and ways which are used in pursuit of Olde Cannis Moose Lickus Choppus.

That bro in law of mine leaves tomorrow for the first hunt of the year with Peter. He's working on his 13th wolf!

quote:

Originally posted by Doc:
Thanks.

Joe, I do handload and intend to load as hot as tolerable here which is, on average, about 15 degrees when really cold.

I was thinking of switching to magnum primers too.

Should I stick with a slower powder in a 270 like Re22 with a magnum primer or go with a medium powder, like 4350? I do not have the experience in this matter.

Doc, Stick powders are esier to ignite than ball, but a magnum primer is a define plus in that type of temp. Use a load which is fine at home, and you will be fine up there in the cold. You don't have to over compensate.

Thanks for all the advice! Les, my bud who is going recommended the boot blankets as well at $50/pair.

I'm going to simply make a list soon and call cabela's and place an order.

You can use the hand warmers in your boots as well. I don't use the stick in cind with the sticky tape on them--too hard to get out. I just use the hand warmers and put them under my toes in the boots. I don't let them touch my skin, I have my socks on between my toes and the warmers. They are great in extremely cold weather. Good luck.

For your cold weather gear contact a guy named Brent Sinclair.
He does Arctic Wolf hunts in March and knows the drill as good as anyone here he has a client that purchased a set of Northern Outfitters gear to use on a wolf hunt that is for sale 1/2 price!!!
brent@trophyhuntamerica.com www.trophyhuntamerica.smugmug.com
bobcat

Thanks!