whats all this crazy talk of
"hunting insurance"?
i understand it for running a buisness,
for your home and car....
but i'll not spend 1 dollar on personal hunting insurance,if required at some point or not.
the thought is repulsive and sends shivers...

quote:

Originally posted by I think he is talking about an insurance policy that the Hunter takes out, not the land owner.

Yes, absolutely. It is an insurance we have to buy by law in order to get our hunting licenses renewed.

This insurance covers damages we cause when hunting, both on persons as well as on property.

I don't have it here but it costs around 150 US$ per 3 years with a maximum of 20 million € or so.

My car is insured when I drive because accidents happen. I wouldk do that no matter if there is a law or not. Traffic accidents happen a lot so it is relatively expensive; hunting accidents are very rare so this insurance is very cheap. Our state federation negotiats that with a big liability insurance firm

I think it is good that it is obligatory here (to protect my family in case someone else shoots me) and I would by it anyway even if there was no requirement, just in case I myself cause an accident that hurts others; no one is totally immune against that, even if you are the most cautious hunter.

50 bucks well spent, two boxes of 30/06 ammo.

quote:

Originally posted by ravenr:
whats all this crazy talk of
"hunting insurance"?
i understand it for running a buisness,
for your home and car....
but i'll not spend 1 dollar on personal hunting insurance,if required at some point or not.
the thought is repulsive and sends shivers...

Figures......

DUK, much of the U.S. is a different kind of country. Just read what I said earlier about how the car insurance laws are complied with. In fact that's only part of it compared to the many who drive on fake drive-out tags, expired tags, expired licenses, suspended licenses and revoked licenses.

If you require hunting insurance it would be ignored by the many who feel they have little to lose and it would lead to people not bothering to buy licenses at all. It would also lead to many legislators losing their jobs come election time.

We're a lot harder people to regulate in my state than in your country.

quote:

Originally posted by Shack:
DUK, much of the U.S. is a different kind of country. Just read what I said earlier about how the car insurance laws are complied with. In fact that's only part of it compared to the many who drive on fake drive-out tags, expired tags and expired or suspended driver's licenses.

If you require hunting insurance it would be ignored by the many who feel they have little to lose and it would lead to people not bothering to buy licenses. It would also lead to many legislators losing their jobs come election time.

We're a harder people to regulate in my state than in your country.

It wouldn't be any more difficult than either making the insurance cost part of the license costs or requiring you to show proof of non-cancellable insurance before buying a license. If someone chose not to buy a hunting license, the fines for hunting without one could be increased enough so that making that choice would be counterproductive.

Again, I'm not necessarily for it, but it could easily be done and might not be such a bad idea. That way, at least if you are shot with major medical expenses or are shot and killed by some fool then your family wouldn't have to suffer the financial consequences if he/she had no assets. Damages could be capped at say $500,000 death and million dollar medical and $20 a year per hunting license in Texas should easily cover all claims based on current reported deaths/injuries. Texas sells roughly a million hunting licenses a year so that would create a $20 million dollar pool. For that matter, based on current reports, $10 a year in Texas might cover it handily and I'd gladly pay $10 or $20 a year for such coverage myself.

I wouldn't underestimate how tough it would be to enforce. And remember, in states like mine many don't even need hunting licenses at all...landowners, farm tenants, their families and senior citizens. You also can't after-the-fact legally go back on lifetime sportmens' license holders.

To put in a whole legislative regime for it with caps on liability etc when nobody but nobody in the legislature is even thinking in those terms would also not only be a non-starter politically, at worst it would get the anti-gunowner lib media all stirred up and hand them an issue they otherwise wouldn't think of which they would just really sink their teeth into.

Those who are accident prone or concerned they might cause a shooting accident should stay home (they usually never figure out why the club dropped them). If they must go, a homeowners personal liability endorsement is an option.

On the other end, those hunting with unsafe hunters (such as overcrowded public hunts...or such as that partner who shows up at 4 a.m. already drunk) and in unsafe places (certain rivers I could name), should try new partners or venues. If determined to push ahead anyway, there is accidental death and disability insurance.

While a general liability umbrella and perhaps home owner insurance may help to some extent in some locales; in the past I have made inquiries as to INDIVIDUAL hunting liability in the past.

Could not find it.

I have purchased Hunting Lease Liability as both land Owner and Lease Operator on several occasions..
(Also have purchased Instructors Liability for Weapons Training in the past.)

With this thread I have now made new Inquiries,(3 days, 4 carriers) as of yet no affirmative responses. Responses that I perhaps could form a "club" and get some , but not as an individual as of yet.

If that changes I will post. (Perhaps deserving of its own thread in light of the this and Miss Boddinton's incident).
Hmmm, sounds like a business opportunity.

Also, don't we have enough unenforced/unenforceable laws on the books already?

Licenses sales are dropping yearly in Texas and all across the U.S., do we really need regulations put in place that will force more people out of the sport?

If a land owner/leaseholder wants to take out insurance, that is great.

To force individual hunters into having insurance before they can hunt, or increase license fees by $20.00 or $30.00 across the board, would only hurt hunting in my opinion.

Required general liability insurance for all hunters is probably a good idea that would offer considerable value to hunters at very low cost per capita. Of course, if some version of required universal health care passes it would have less value.

How any semi-reasonable or semi-responsible person can say that it would not be helpful to the relatively few hunters who are killed or injured each year by other hunters amazes me. How many buy a lottery ticket? The odds of getting KILLED in Texas, which has a remarkable safety record, while hunting on a yearly basis ARE MUCH HIGHER THAN YOUR CHANCES of winning most lotteries. Specifically roughly about 1 in 250,000 or more hunters will die this year while hunting in Texas. $10 or $20 to take care of medical expenses and some level of life insurance, for you or your family or for the hunter who was injured or killed's family seems pretty cheap to me. Noone ever thinks they're going to cause a hunting accident or be the victim of one, so they don't think anybody needs coverage, but many someones are the cause or a victim every year.

Only 1 affirmative response about Personal Hunting Liability Policies thus far and it has a $250,000.00 limit.

http://www.locktonrisk.com/nrains/excess.htm

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Also, don't we have enough unenforced/unenforceable laws on the books already?

Licenses sales are dropping yearly in Texas and all across the U.S., do we really need regulations put in place that will force more people out of the sport?

If a land owner/leaseholder wants to take out insurance, that is great.

To force individual hunters into having insurance before they can hunt, or increase license fees by $20.00 or $30.00 across the board, would only hurt hunting in my opinion.

Couldn't agree more......although the insurance is a good idea in principle it would never work. And on top of decreasing license sales you would create a whole new insurance culture of (after the incident, of course) "oh, no that's not covered, you're denied."

Gatogordo, don't really appreciate this little POS:

quote:

How any semi-reasonable or semi-responsible person

I have been hunting for over 40 years, ain't had an accident or been involved in one, and taught Hunter Ed for a few years.

You do or think what ever you like, that is your priveledge.

I just think having a law enacted, forcing hunters to have liability insurance to buy a hunting license is pure of the smelliest and greasiest type, and would end up like Norton stated, or like the present state of affairs with vehicle insurance all across Texas and the US, any time a claim was made, everyones rates would increase and anyone who made a claim would be unable to find a company that would insure them.

Do you honestly think driving more hunters out of the sport will help anyone other than the anti crowd?

No doubt the insurance industry would push for mandatory hunting insurance if they see an opening. Just another way for them to rip us off.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Gatogordo, don't really appreciate this little POS:

quote:

How any semi-reasonable or semi-responsible person

I have been hunting for over 40 years, ain't had an accident or been involved in one, and taught Hunter Ed for a few years.

You do or think what ever you like, that is your priveledge.

I just think having a law enacted, forcing hunters to have liability insurance to buy a hunting license is pure of the smelliest and greasiest type, and would end up like Norton stated, or like the present state of affairs with vehicle insurance all across Texas and the US, any time a claim was made, everyones rates would increase and anyone who made a claim would be unable to find a company that would insure them.

Do you honestly think driving more hunters out of the sport will help anyone other than the anti crowd?

Let me give you a flash, I don't give a shit whether you appreciate it or not.

being only a "semi responsible and semi resonable" hunter,i still don't feel the need to have personal hunting insurance.
the chances of being involved in a hunting
accident are as remote as being struck by lightning,and for me personally i am over all the nickel and dime surcharges and "small one time fees".
seems that every year the line of blood suckers and parisites that are lined up needing another
feeding from my wallet grows.
at times of a tight economy these little bastards come out of the woodwork and comense a feeding frensy,penny taxes,surcharges,
all the creatons of our world who have figured out a way to make a living off the sweat of the
honest working class.
no sir i won't voleenteer another penny and
won't agree that this could anyway resemble a "good" idea.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
Let me give you a flash, I don't give a shit whether you appreciate it or not.

What a hard ass......lots of "semi-reasonable and semi-responsible" people consider it just another cash-grab to be mismanaged and abused by whatever private or public entity administers it. How's that hard guy? And this $20 million pool you speak of.....want to venture a guess on where that will be when someone tries to access it for a pay out? Fantasyland maybe? What a joke......

Any semi-reasonable person would realize that the 20 million dollar cssh pool ain't gonna sit there long before some ambulance chaser(s) and/or politicians are gonna start scheming on how to get their fingers in the till.

quote:

Let me give you a flash, I don't give a shit whether you appreciate it or not.

How very adult of you.

So, with a responce like that, you want folks to believe that you are:

quote:

"semi-reasonable and semi-responsible"

Or are you an Insurance sales man?

quote:

Originally posted by ravenr:
being only a "semi responsible and semi resonable" hunter,i still don't feel the need to have personal hunting insurance.
the chances of being involved in a hunting
accident are as remote as being struck by lightning,and for me personally i am over all the nickel and dime surcharges and "small one time fees".
seems that every year the line of blood suckers and parisites that are lined up needing another
feeding from my wallet grows.
at times of a tight economy these little bastards come out of the woodwork and comense a feeding frensy,penny taxes,surcharges,
all the creatons of our world who have figured out a way to make a living off the sweat of the
honest working class.
no sir i won't voleenteer another penny and
won't agree that this could anyway resemble a "good" idea.

quote:

"the chances of being involved in a hunting
accident are as remote as being struck by lightning"

As usual, people underestimate the chances of something bad happening to them, it always happens to "other" people.

Odds of being killed by lightning in US in any one year, approximately 1 in 6,000,000.

Odds of being involved in reportable hunting accident in Texas in 2007 (one of the safest years), 1 in 37,000. Odds of being killed in a hunting accident while hunting in Texas in 2007, 1 in 278,000. Odds of being killed while hunting nationwide are a bit higher, meaning you are more likely to be killed nationwide, but still in the same range.

So while the odds are still quite low that a hunter would be involved in a hunting accident or death in Texas or nationally, they are MUCH HIGHER than your estimates based on your comparison would suggest. That's where the semi-reasonable part comes in...... .......and you've also indicated your level of responsibility.

Insurance people don't even bother to call me, I'm the least insured person who is doing what is legally required that you can imagine. No life insurance that I've purchased, no homeowner's, no medical, etc. But it's been my experience that many of the "independent" types, probably some of the ones in here, who don't have insurance are the FIRST ones who want help from the government, the legal system, or anyone else they can find when things go wrong......ever pay any attention to all the various "fund raisers" for xyz person(s) who've been in an accident, lost their homes to fire, have a catastrophic illness, etc? Why do you think they're needing all that community help for their needs? Because they're one of those who chose for whatever reasons not to have insurance.

Why don't I personally carry more insurance? Simple, I can afford the loss if the worst happens, most people can't. The question is, can you or can your family?

I wish the fool the blew out my right ear drum had insurance.

quote:

Originally posted by Mikelravy:
I wish the fool the blew out my right ear drum had insurance.

Exhibit A for the offense......(very sorry to hear about your injury).......

For the reasons mentioned above it's completely impractical to base getting a hunting license on carrying insurance. I know it's different in Europe, but that's how it is here.

Be that as it may, requiring hunters to carry shooter's insurance will raise the issue with the public whether ALL gunowners should also be required to carry insurance. That's how it will play out politically and the way the media will spin it. They'll also jump at the chance to connect it up with licensing across the board.

All those who want to go there, feel free to speak up...

everyone be nice to gater-aid
somebody pissed in his cherrios
and he's abit grumpy

quote:

Simple, I can afford the loss if the worst happens, most people can't. The question is, can you or can your family?

Ah Yes folks and there we have it.

Someone whethere thru luck, intelligence or inheritance, is above the average person and cn afford to look down their nose at others that for whatever the reason are not as well off.

Piety in full flower, "I can afford it and if you can not, maybe you should not be doing it".

That sure seems like a good attitude for helping keep hunting alive and well for everyone.

Oh Wait, I forgot, those out here that are not as well heeled as you are need to be weeded out anyway.

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
Why don't I personally carry more insurance? Simple, I can afford the loss if the worst happens, most people can't. The question is, can you or can your family?

Do we need any further evidence that this guy is the king of the douchebags?

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

Simple, I can afford the loss if the worst happens, most people can't. The question is, can you or can your family?

Ah Yes folks and there we have it.

Someone whethere thru luck, intelligence or inheritance, is above the average person and cn afford to look down their nose at others that for whatever the reason are not as well off.

Piety in full flower, "I can afford it and if you can not, maybe you should not be doing it".

That sure seems like a good attitude for helping keep hunting alive and well for everyone.

Oh Wait, I forgot, those out here that are not as well heeled as you are need to be weeded out anyway.

You're a complete asshole. Try reading what I said, fuckwit.

quote:

Originally posted by Norton:

quote:

Originally posted by Gatogordo:
Why don't I personally carry more insurance? Simple, I can afford the loss if the worst happens, most people can't. The question is, can you or can your family?

Do we need any further evidence that this guy is the king of the douchebags?

What is this, some kind of envy working? What did I say that insulted your sensitivities so much? I don't carry much more insurance than required by law for a simple financial decision. I self insure. Hard for some to understand, but try.

That is the damn problem Gatogordo, we are reading what you are writing.

You seem to be really self righteous about your ability to be financially secure, and you really appear to be looking down from your own "Throne On High" at everyone that isn't in the same situation you are.

Now, you have elevated yourself to being totally deragatory toward people that are not agreeing with you.

Your the one not reading what you are writing.

Now if the best you can do is just throw profanity out here, I bet that nearly any body on here can match you word for word and probably come up with some better than your best.

Problem is, you ain't worth the trouble.

Your an arrogant, self-righteous, pious individual that believes if everyone is not on his level financially or whatever you judge your life by, they are trash.

What a pitiful POS you are.

There is no envy on my part, I just do not believe mandatory insurance for people to be able to buy a hunting license is a good thing and I can see it driving more p[eople out of hunting, maybe that is what I am missing with your whole diatribe, you are wanting people that do not hunt or believe the way you do about hunting out of the sport.

Trust me Gato, CHC has problems. There was a post some time ago about what hunt was the least value for money. I mentioned javelina hunting as being my chose. CHC thought for some reason that I was attacking him and immediately started his poor-me-I'm-a-victim-again routine. I think kids in school used to pick on him and he's never gotten over it.

He uses the word "we" loosely. I suspect there is no one wired quite like him.

Crazyhorse, your comment on possibly being scoped unknowingly has caused me much concern and thought. I think that if you hunt with a highpowered rifle that needs a scope for you to see your aiming point, you should be obligated to carry binoculars to inspect your prospective target. Get caught without them, you should get the wee wee fined out of you. The more I read of all these stories of carelessnes, the more I'll be content to hunt alone.

Kensco, your really a funny, pathetic little individual.

gbanger, more folks use their rifle scopes to glass an area than anyone really wants to admit too or think about.

In the Uk insurance isn't mandatory for hunting and shooting in the field.

However most, In my experience something like 90% of hunters I have spoken too have insurance through membership of various shooting and field sports organisations for between £30 to £60 a year.

On our crowded little island, it is reassuring to have liability insurance to cover the odd cow, water pipe, engine block etc.

If one is careful and shoots in the middle of nowhere one could live without it.

Accidents in the field are almost unheard of here though.

It was inevitable.......

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31...27/ns/us_news-life//

quote:

Originally posted by Norton:

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Here in the states, the cost of that type insurance, if you could find it would be so prohibitive, a person could not afford to hunt after paying the premiums.

Haven't you seen the New American motto??

America, The Land Of The Law Suit!

Get this, here in this great state of NH one does not have to have liability insurance to drive a car. Imagine that.....you are allowed to drive a 5000 lb weapon and if you don't have a pot to pee in and run someone over they are SOOL! When I moved here from NJ a few years ago I thought my FIL was joking when he told me. Guess who foots the bill for the uninsured drunks plowing their cars into snow banks and trees?

That's not to say I agree with "hunter's insurance".....no chance I'm paying for that!

Norton,

I think you should go back to NJ. Please. We don't need you or any more of you NJ types to come here and tell us the way it should be. BTW, like Gatorgordo, I'd put my teenaged son against 99% of the adult hunters I've ever met when it comes to safe gun handling and judgement when it comes to hunting and shooting sports. Yes, he's got less life experience but he's been taught well and held accountable.

quote:

Originally posted by The Slug:

quote:

Originally posted by Norton:
Get this, here in this great state of NH one does not have to have liability insurance to drive a car. Imagine that.....you are allowed to drive a 5000 lb weapon and if you don't have a pot to pee in and run someone over they are SOOL! When I moved here from NJ a few years ago I thought my FIL was joking when he told me. Guess who foots the bill for the uninsured drunks plowing their cars into snow banks and trees?

That's not to say I agree with "hunter's insurance".....no chance I'm paying for that!

Norton,

I think you should go back to NJ. Please. We don't need you or any more of you NJ types to come here and tell us the way it should be. BTW, like Gatorgordo, I'd put my teenaged son against 99% of the adult hunters I've ever met when it comes to safe gun handling and judgement when it comes to hunting and shooting sports. Yes, he's got less life experience but he's been taught well and held accountable.

Did I tell you what to do? Don't think liability insurance to drive a car is prudent? Think it's the taxpayer's responsibility to pay for damage done by negligent, uninsured drivers? Oh, let me guess.....you don't need insurance like your hero fatcat?

If someone with your thought processes is teaching a teenager anything similar to what you infer in your post, I wouldn't let the kid tie his own shoelaces, much less handle a firearm.

You're not too smart, huh?

And I'll give you a chance to try and explain the statement below:

I think you should go back to NJ. Please. We don't need you or any more of you NJ types to come here and tell us the way it should be.

I dont recall seeing fat cat make a positive post ever,except for whoring for his favorite bbq joint.
I have however,seen him post dozens of negative posts.Usually telling the person who doesnt agree with him to "fuck off",or something equally intelligent.

I want to know how you mistake a Person for a Bear.I could care less about if the careless Hunter is Eight or Eighty,it should not have happened.Sueing will solve nothing and dont need the Gubmint to mandate Insursance.I think the Kid has lost his right to own guns,as would any bonehead who would do that!!!

quote:

Originally posted by OLBIKER:
I want to know how you mistake a Person for a Bear.I could care less about if the careless Hunter is Eight or Eighty,it should not have happened.Sueing will solve nothing and dont need the Gubmint to mandate Insursance.I think the Kid has lost his right to own guns,as would any bonehead who would do that!!!

+1

Some things you should only get to screw up once at. I'd also like to see FatCat back up those numbers. His 1/250,000 seems a bit more dangerous than reality. How do non-hunters fit into that equation? The lady killed by the kid in the start of this wasn't a hunter. If a hunter dies of a heart attack while hunting, is he included? People die and shit happens. This kid screwed up, but sometimes shit just happens. Looking for who to sue isn't the answer. We hunters and outdoorsmen "police" ourselves much harder than the law or other "groups" do. When was the last time you heard outrage from drivers because of a death caused by a car? Unfortunately, people are killed in accidents everyday. If you are going to be alive, you assume some risk of death. The whole situation with insurance, autos, and lawyers is a circus. Why would anyone want to wish a circus on hunting and gun ownership, if they are supposed to be Pro hunting/guns?

OlBiker, it is called "Buck Fever" plain and simple.

People, and not just kids, but experienced hunters, get so excited and caught up in the moment, that if there is not another person standing/setting right there with them, they can/will mistake any movement or sound as being the animal/bird they are after.

This is NOT the first time something like this has happened, What In The Hell, Is Wrong With Everyone On This One?

This kind of thing happens every year, a dove comes flying in too low, yet someone is so intent on getting the shot, they blank out everything but the bead on the end of the barrel and the bird.

Parents have shot their children, completely unsuspecting people working in their yard, or walking down a trail, or riding a bicycle down a rural road have been mistaken for game.

Can one person on here, swear that they have NEVER mistaken something that was NOT the game they were after, until AFTER they have glassed it with their scope for maybe the second or even third time.

Not jumping on any one person in particular nor am I meaning to offend anyone, But, It Is Just Like Missing A Shot Or Wounding and Losing An Animal, If You Hunt Long Enough And Often Enough You WIll Find Yourself Looking Thru Your Scope at The Shoulder Of Someone, Or Their Cow/Horse/Dog/Goat, whatever.

It happens.

This kid and whoever was supposed to be in charge of him made one hell of a mistake.

But for ANY of us to set back and feign innocence on never having realized what we were fixing to pull the trigger on, was not something we needed to kill, is pure Bull Shit in its greasiest and smelliest form.

quote:

Originally posted by jb:
I dont recall seeing fat cat make a positive post ever,except for whoring for his favorite bbq joint.
I have however,seen him post dozens of negative posts.Usually telling the person who doesnt agree with him to "fuck off",or something equally intelligent.

You ain't alone.