The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting Cartridges We Could Live WithoutGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Cartridges We Could Live Without | Login/Join |
| one of us |
quote: you are welcome Chainsaw. Sorry, but it's so easy to get caught up in irrelevant squabble these days. Anyway, as stated before, an ammo company only cares about sales, even though only 1 company chambers for 257 Roberts the ammo factories will make ammo for it, simply because there are enough people out there to buy the stuff. Same thing goes for DOA rounds like 376 Styer, as long as the ammo sells, the companies will produce it. On that same note, I can write a very convincing article as to why every company everywhere should stop chambering rifles in and producing ammo in 22rimfire and have it printed up in a very nice little gun tabloid. And at the end of the day all that will have been achieved is, that people will know that I have either sold out, or am too unstable to near anything as potentially lethal as a q-tip. The ammo/gun companies won't care either way and will sell a billion more rifles/handguns and an ungodly amount of ammo as they always do. As to the antis, whether or not Boddington likes or does not like means really very little. They'll tell you humanity has always been vegetarian and should be so now. These are the same people who want to come up with recipes so animals will no longer have to kill and eat each other. Not exactly the shapest spoons in the drawer, if you catch my meaning. The greatest damage comes to our sport from our ranks every election when about half or more gun owners decide not to vote because their man isn't going to win anyway.
[This message has been edited by Curtis_Lemay (edited 12-20-2001).] | |||
|
| <Paul Dustin> |
I would not eliminate any factory cartridges they might only make a run once a year but not eliminate. Alot off the old ones are coming back. Hornady is loading a 405 Win I vote to keep all of them. you never know when you might come up with one of this old rifles | ||
|
| <sure-shot> |
Hey guys, I don't know where I fit in. I'm laughing so hard I can hardly post(chuckle). You see I own both 7mm08s and 30/06. So where do I fit in in the scheme of things? I love em both along with Accurate Reloading.com sure-shot | ||
|
| one of us |
quote:
| |||
|
| <JOHAN> |
Fellows Our "dear buddy" the General brigadier is full of shit like a x-mast turkey. It's all a matter of preferences when it comes to cartridges and rifles. I think Boddington is obsolete, and so is the RIFLESHOOTER. | ||
|
| Administrator |
Gentlemen, I suggest we get rid of these two writers instead I am of the opinion that one can never have too many guns, and the more diverse they are, the better ------------------ www.accuratereloading.com | |||
|
| <Mr.16 gauge> |
JOHAN; "full of shit like a Christmas turkey"? Over on this side of the pond, we use stuffing! Note to self: never accept an invitation to Christmas dinner from JOHAN. LOL | ||
|
| <Mr.16 gauge> |
Chainsaw; I got to thinking about this thread the other night, and I have to modify my opinion a little bit. I still don't think that articles like this will give the antis any ammunition, but I do feel that if enough gunwriters gang up on a particular cartridge, and if they are believed by enough gullible people, then they can cause the cartridges popularity to drop, and the resulting decrease in sales will cause it to be dropped by the manufacturers. Case in point.... my beloved 16 gauge. My interest in guns/hunting/shooting started in 1975. I have a gun digest from that year, and several manufacturers offerd thier shotguns in 16 gauge variations: Remington 1100 and 870, Browning A5, Winchester 1200 and 1400, Mossberg 500, Stevens 311, ect ect. I have a Gun Digest from 1985, ten years later, and there is not ONE domestic manufacturer of a 16 gauge shotgun! I remember during this time seeing several articles in gun rags entitled "is the 20 gauge as good as the 12?", "How good is the 3" 20 gauge", "12, 16, or 20 gauge?", ect. Most of these articles touted that since the advent of the 3" 20 gauge, the 16 gauge was somehow 'obsolete', and that the 20 gauge, with it's 3" chamber, was more "versatile" than the 16, since it didn't come in a 3" chambering. Those of us who know velocities, shot strings, ect, know that this isn't necessarily so....I personally think that a 3" 20 gauge is an abomination (as is the 3 1/2" 12 gauge). If you need that much more shot to get the job done, go to a bigger gauge! But at any rate, almost every gun writer, to a man, bad mouthed the 16 gauge, and no one bothered to buy them. Since there were fewer guns, fewer shell offerings were made from the ammo makers, and now there is mostly just "junk" game loads out there to be had...poor quality shells loaded with inferior shot and components. A few trys at resurecting this great gauge have failed. I don't know why it hasn't happened with rifle cartridges...maybe because there is such a plethora to choose from, they can't all be ganged up on at once. Either that, or rifle shooters are smarter than shotgunners when it comes to cartridges  ------------------ | ||
|
| <Jeff S> |
Mr 16, I hear what you are saying about shotguns and magnums. Its hard to find a duckhunter or turkeyhunter these day who believes standard 2 3/4 shells will work on these birds. Yet few have ever tried them and fewer still realize that guns like 20 guages were quite common prior to the advent of steel shot and turkey hunters never really had 3" or the 3.5" abortion available until about 15 years ago. I love the new standard Tungsten poly loads and bismuth loads. They shoot just like my old lead duck loads and I'm not stuck trying to push a big load of high velocity steel that won't retain its velocity down my tube. For turkeys I still love the standard 2 3/4 mag dram equivilent shell which patterns better than the magnums and has about 100 fps MORE velocity than the magnums...put another way...more shot on target with more energy. Of course that's not what the marketing people at Win/Rem/Fed want you to buy/hear. No sizzle or hype associated with anything that's not a "magnum." and god forbid the guys hear that you are shooting one of those old outdated guns/loads. People like Craig Boddington are going to make it very hard for me to shoot my 6mm Lee Navy without necking up some .220 Swift cases... | ||
|
| <Paul Dustin> |
I agree with Saeed get rid of these two writers | ||
|
| <'Trapper'> |
Well, I see that I take off for awhile and right away things start to slide downhill. Wasn't going to get in this quagmire but doggone it, you have gone and made me mad! I don't know who "Big Stick" is but this fellow has a lot of nerve to use a handle like "Big Stick" and then to espouse a piss-ant caliber like the 7-08! Ever heard of a caliber named the 7X57 Mauser, friend? Something over a hundred years old and to use your argument, "What will the 7-08 do that the 7x57 won't do better?" Ever run your 7-08 across the Chrono? I think you will find that it is a bit overly optimistic also, especially with factory ammo. Another area that I find to be really annoying is that most of the 7-08's I have had any dealings with are very tempermental, in short, they don't shoot very well and usually only with a limited bullet selection and load. Tell me how many 30-06's work well with anything from 130gr to 200gr bullets and I think it will be lots of them! If you don't like it, don't use it but also don't knock it because it might be someone else's very favorite and he could have a whole pocketful of reasons for loving it. I like the 30-06 and use one quite a bit. Do I think it is a perfect caliber? Of course not, I don't think the perfect caliber even exists. But in my humble opinion, the 30-06 is a much better caliber and certainly more useful than the 7-08 will ever be! I don't expect agreement with my viewpoints from many here but at least you now know that some differences of opinion do exist. Regards, ------------------ | ||
|
| <DavidP> |
One thing I do find interseting is that Boddington wrote an article bout the 260 Remington about a year ago in either Guns & Ammo or Shoter and said the exact opposite. He didn't see a need for the 260 since it was sandwiched in between the 243 and another cartridge,(can't remember) and didn't do anything the 6.5x55 Swede wasn't already doing. Hmmm, interesting, since now the 6.5x55 Swede should go instead of the 260. Either way, I think just about all gun writers have pretty much tapped out all resources for new things to write about and are just plain stuck with coming up with more stuff each month. I guess it's the nature of the beast. BTW: I still am a big fan of Boddington but I don't read many of the "Monthly" gun articles for the aforementioned reason. His earlier writings are well thought out and considered to be "Bibles" by a lot of folks. He is one hell of a gentleman too. I guess I'll get beat up now... ------------------ | ||
|
| <Flinch> |
Okay Stick, in the middle it is. Cheers on the .25-284. Did a little rabbit hunting with it last weekend. Damned if I could find the stinking rabbit after a 75 grain Vmax whizzed through it at 3,750 fps(WOW). I did find a few 20 foot blood smears though. Had a shot at a yoddle dog at a tad over 800 yards. The wind was howling and I couldn't keep the cross hairs on him, so I didn't take the shot. I will try for another one a little closer this weekend. Flinch | ||
|
Moderator |
Stick's handle is based on his profession, he's a logger, and he drops BIG sticks! He also shoots a 375 ackley, but has a preference for extremely accurate small bores. He also doesn't hamper himself with factory loads. There is also a bit | |||
|
| <Big Stick> |
Trapper, I like a very diverse mix of cartridges and often think out of the box. Most that thinking derived from a serious amount of shooting,toppling critters and ballistics excersizes(from chronograph,to ballistic computer,to range confirmation). If you take issue with anything I say ever,point it out,I'll happily comment and explain my contention. Yes,yes,yes,I've heard of them all,including the 7x57Mauser. What will the 7-08 do better? Most importantly,the 7-08 is a short action cartridge. The 7mmMauser a bastard round,with no home. In the short action,the 7-08 is superior(Rem 700 2.800" mag box noteably). In a long,EVERYTHING is superior to the Mauser. Shooting light bullets,in the short box? Give me the 284Win. The Mauser,is a conversation piece,at best. Though I dig nostalgia,I don't Hunt it,for that little bit of satisfaction. I've never found published 7-08 data optimistic. I shoot that cartridge in a 15" Shilen barreled XP-100(ever heard of one of them),a 22" Douglas barreled Silhouette Rifle(ever heard of one of them),a 24" PacNor barreled Sporter(ever heard of one of them),a Rem 700S/S BDL 24" Factory gun(ever heard of one of them)and am having a one of Dan Lilja's finest S/S blanks finished at 22" and installed on another Rem 700,for another M40A1 clone,I hope to have him befor Xmas(ever heard of one of them). All are twisted 1-10",all shoot amazingly well and I feel "worthy" of commenting,without bias,on the attributes of this little "piss-ant" cartridge. Your implication,that 7-08's are fickle,is a telltale indicator to me,that you've zero hands on with the cartridge. I've played with a herd of them through the years and their easy demeanor,is a given. That of course assuming a good stock,proper bedding and a sound optics platform and scope. I never understood the penchant,for having 14 different loads,for one individual rifle. Give me one good bullet for Hunting,one in the like weight and similiar in profile for practice. I shoot 120/140X expressly,the most accurate in the individual barrel,gets the nod. I shoot 120 V-Max for practice and 140 Ballistic Tips,as their trajectories nicely match the X's inherent strong BC potential. I never said the 7-08 was perfect,never implied it. Now that Daddy's '06 has lost it's luster,don't be mad at me,because the wool has been pulled from your eyes. Flinch,where do you find these guys?!!? I'll catch ya,in the middle(grin).......... | ||
|
| one of us |
One thing about the .30-06: Since it has been used in Alaska for so many years, there are countless stories about hunters, and even game wardens using this cartridge to kill bears. There was a guide called Bud Kunkle (I hope I spelled the name correctly) who was very proficient with his .30-06. He even used it to kill a charging grizzly one time. The .30-06 has been used to kill "problem" brown bears in the past, including bears that had previously killed humans. Please understand that I am not implying the .30-06 is a dangerous game cartridge. All I am trying to say is that any gun in the hands of a proficient shooter can do the job at hand. | |||
|
| one of us |
Doc already answered the initial post to my satisfaction, but another point got brought up by someone else who had, all considered, a well-thought-out answer. He also asked, Originally posted by J Brown: The correct answer to J Brown's new question is: Come out of the front end of my H-S Precision pistol from accurate factory loads that don't irritate me with recoil. Almost every cartridge has a reason for its existence. Even Craig Boddington has a reason for his existence. Writing articles on unneeded cartridges probably isn't the reason. | |||
|
| <Big Stick> |
Ray, Remember the HUGE Brownie the gal killed,with her 7x57Mauser? I side with you,the possibilities are limitless,but I know there are much better tools for that job,than either the '06 or the 7-08................ | ||
|
| <Big Stick> |
Test...... Trapper, My handle is a misnomer and has zero bearing on anything tangible............ [This message has been edited by Big Stick (edited 12-20-2001).] | ||
|
| one of us |
hey guys, on the original subject, Craig Boddington the writer, well yeah, I like some of his stuff. But if I remember the article in question, he was assigned the subject by his editor, and remember the object of the game. Sell magazines. Even a gun writers job is just a job (ok, probably better than My job) and sometimes you pull crappy duty. I think Boddington was just playing devils advocate to stir up the pot. - Dan | |||
|
| <Paladin> |
Stirring the pot is fine, but it is best to stir constructively --and, to consider what's in the pot selected to be stirred. Some pots are not meant to be stirred --just emptied early in the morning and washed out at once.... | ||
|
| <1LoneWolf> |
This 7-08 over the 30-06? No Way! The 7-08 is a great little cartridge, but it isn't as good at heavier weights as the 30-06. That said, the 7-08 can do a hell of a lot and there isn't a "huge" leap to the -06, but there is, certainly a decent little step there. The 30-06 will never be useless, it fills the bill for the amount of recoil most hunters can shoot without noticing, while being damn lethal on the other end. Okay, if we want to "dump a cartridge", let's pick something like the 30-40 Krag. It certainly isn't a "bad" cartridge, but there it is, stuck up against the 308 and the 30-06, or even the 300 Savage. And in honesty, I'm sure there is someone using it, but I've yet to meet him. | ||
|
| <JOHAN> |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mr.16 gauge: [B]JOHAN; "full of shit like a Christmas turkey"? Over on this side of the pond, we use stuffing! Mr.16 gauge stuffing and shit it the same thing. Cheers | ||
|
| <Gary Rihn> |
Dang Stick, how many gunstocks you reckon you could whittle outta that little sapling? Why didn't you let it grow up a bit? | ||
|
| <333-OKH> |
Somewhere in my pile of old gun magazines is an article by Colonel Charlie Askins in which he presented his recomendations for the ash can. This was in the sixties I think. A very well written piece that dripped with vitrol as only the good Colonel could provide. Sold magazines then and still works, Askins work was more fun to read though, he could be nasty. ------------------ | ||
|
| one of us |
Big Stick, Hell,you must be from my part of the country.Only good ole Humboldt county grows trees that big! ------------------ | |||
|
| <Big Stick> |
Gary, I'd play hell,whittlin' a McMillan out of that(grin). Thatdespite it being a fair to middlin' stick. Brian, Actually,that is a lowly Alaskan Red Cedar,from SE Alaska. Have made stumps in Humboldt County,as well. This one,is only a twelve footer,someday I'll show you a BIG one................... | ||
|
| one of us |
Big Stick, The angle of that photo makes it look quite a big bigger than 12 feet across.I have seen some truely huge trees felled.My grandfather logged most of the old growth here in the 40s on through to the late 60s.He actualy fell some trees that were bigger than the world's tallest tree.They had just made all the hoopla about the world's tallest they had found north of Big Lagoon.They found about four that were taller but the lumber company told them to fall them as they had just found the other tree.There is now a new world's tallest tree,which they found down by Ukiah of all places. Whereabouts in Humboldt county did you log?I assume you lived here then? ------------------ [This message has been edited by Brian M (edited 12-22-2001).] | |||
|
| <Big Stick> |
The angle wasn't meant to be deceiving. Yep,you Boys in Humboldt,certainly have claim o the biggest of the big. I'm a traveling Tramp Logger,been up and down the coast from Northern California to Kodiak/Afognak and most stops in between. Just a hired gun,stopping for whoever paid the most,or who's Camp was located in a spot that interested me. Never lived in California,just simply passed through. In fact am currently contemplating heading down there(in Scotia,for Pacific Lumber),to work after the first of the year. That will depend on our weather here(meaning Steelhead Fishing)and the work forecast. All up in the air,as of now,but could rapidly change. I was born too late and missed both my true callings. One being slayer of Buffalo. The other,slayer of Old Growth Redwood. Though I've never got a aste of the first,I've certainly dabbled in the last(and loved it)......... | ||
|
| one of us |
Big Stick, I just meant that from the angle of the photo it looked better,nothing seedy inplied. Scotia just had a big lay off of mill workers,but no woods workers as far as I know.I'd check it out first before heading down here if I were you. The rivers have taken a turn for the worse here.Now you can only keep Kings and only on the Mad,Van Duzen and Smith Rivers.It's all catch and release on the Eel River now. If you do move to Scotia,you will be within a minute of my favorite gunshop,Grundman's in Rio Dell.A ton of used guns,reloading stuff,everything you can think of. You missed a great era as far as logging goes.My grandfather fell his first big redwoods with crosscut saws.He bought one of the first chainsaws ever made.My father was never a faller,just a logger.I'd be working in the woods if it wasn't for two rebuilt feet and a bad neck and back.Plan on making my living the easy way,taking people's x-rays.Hey,it beats working in the mud. ------------------ | |||
|
| <Big Stick> |
Too funny,what a SMALL World. I believe my ugly mug dangles amongst the numerous snap-shots in Grundman's(pretty good Black Bear). A very good friend of mine,that lived here for years,since moved there. I knew you weren't busting my ass on the photo. I just wanted to let you know,it wasn't one of those deceiving camera angle plots. Few folks have ever seen a big tree,let alone grasp what goes into the trade. You are as rare of a bird,as I am(takes one,to know one?!!?) Grundman's is the first place I saw a Mathews MQ-32(that was two years ago). Also one of the biggest Blacktails I ever saw,was there,in a photo(netted over 160"). We rented movies there,to keep from going nuts. Talked to the Owner(or Owner's Sons,I can't exactly remember)about Hunting SE Alaska and Deer on Kodiak. At the time,we were renting a house in Carlotta(3 of us,tramped there together). Did much work,in close vacinity. It was a treat for me,to work on such good ground and so little brush. Only had to get three shots in my ass for Poison Oak and got bee-stung twice(grin). Both things you take for granted,having worked in Alaska for so long. Should I decide to take the plunge,I'll post a notice here and let you know. Perhaps we can shoot some claybirds,or do some varminting?........... | ||
|
| one of us |
Big Stick, I have been going to Grundman's since I was knee high and they know me very well down there,heck they even know my voice on the phone.Now you know that's bad.  Do you remember who shot that buck?My dad has killed several in the 160 range,but he doesn't have any photos down there.The first buck I ever killed (with a muzzel loader to boot),grossed 178.Have been called flat out a lier before,but it is all blacktail.Looks like it is ten feet tall,but in actuality he's only 20 inches tall and 20 inches wide;he scores well because he has good mass all the way through and forks out low. The owner's son is Fred,Paul is the owner.I was just down there today in fact.I think those Mathews Solo Cams are super overpriced for what they are.$700 for a bow?Ah,come on! You know,I have never once gotton poison oak.I have even touched it before,known it and not washed my hands and have never gotten it.My grandfather was immune,but my father isn't.Maybe it skipped a generation or I'm just lucky? Feal free to drop me a line anytime bud.My e-mail is at the top of the page.If not you can always post a message to me here and I'll pick up on it pretty quick.Man,gotta get you and my good net bud Brian Smith together.He's a logger and a gun nut beyond imagination-hell he is doing a whole line of Short Magnums,everything from 24 on up to as far as he can go.He's already made a 35 that matches the 358 Norma,now he's got a 9.3 at the gunsmith.I don't think he's ever owned a gun that he hasn't rechambered or rebarreld to something else.He's also a nutty faller,so maybe you too were seperated at birth?
[This message has been edited by Brian M (edited 12-22-2001).] | |||
|
| <Big Stick> |
Brian M, Email message sent............. | ||
|
| one of us |
Big Stick, Sent a short reply as I am very busy this afternoon (suggestion to all-NEVER move if you're a gun nut-to much junk!).We can get into the heavy BS sessions this evening.Better find my hip waiters and overalls in case it starts spilling out of the PCU.You better hunt yours up too. ------------------ [This message has been edited by Brian M (edited 12-23-2001).] | |||
|
| <Big Stick> |
I'll put on the wetsuit and be sippin' a toddy. I'm ready for ya. I just tossed you a photo(Email),to see if you were paying attention.................. | ||
|
| one of us |
Big Stick, Check yer e-mail.Hell,no way that little 7mm/08 could kill a halibut that big. ------------------ | |||
|
One of Us |
I suppose I could live without all of the cartridges I have hitherto lived without, alas the 300 savage does not fall under that category. We could dispose of all of the obsolete loads like they were worn out honda civics, the 30-30, 303 british, 45-70, 222 rem. Then again, to hell with Boddington! | |||
|
| one of us |
You guy's leave Colonel,.....er Herr General Boddington alone. It boost my ego to read of someone who misses more than I do, and can not get within a zip code of a game animal without having buck fever. Good luck and good shooting | |||
|
| one of us |
For a bunch of people who hate the guy, they sure do keep up with what he's writing! It must pain them to read his stuff, just so they can have something negative to say about him. And if they didn't read it, why do they comment on it, as if they did read it? ~~~Suluuq [This message has been edited by Rusty Gunn (edited 12-25-2001).] | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 3 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting Cartridges We Could Live Without
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia
| View $GS_USERNAME's Public Profile |
| Add $GS_USERNAME to my Buddies |
| Add $GS_USERNAME to my Ignore List |
| Invite $GS_USERNAME to a Private Topic |
| View Recent Posts by $GS_USERNAME |
| Notify me of New Posts by $GS_USERNAME |
