The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting Sierra Bullets?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Sierra Bullets? | Login/Join |
| one of us |
We used to use them all the time, when Sierra was about the only bullet available and they worked most of the time but not always, some things never change... They are just a standard bullet, so one cannot logically expect them to perform like a premium bullet. My call is they are OK on deer, and some have had success with the 250 gr. 338 on elk.,but I'll play it safe and use the Nosler as the difference of whatever per bullet is of no concern to me.... ------------------ | |||
|
| <Bill> |
My friend has had great sucess with these bullets. Check out this one he recovered: http://www.rifleshooter.com/images/DavesPictures/recovered300wsmbullte.jpg | ||
|
| one of us |
Ray just about said it all, and I think he's called it just right... maybe there is room for just a little embroidery, though. Speer and Sierra boat tails have no bond between lead and jacket. Cut one open, and the lead falls out. So the chance for separation on impact is pretty good. Hornady boat tails have a crimp in the copper jacket to help hold the lead slug in place. Speer flat base Hot-Cor bullets are made by pouring molten lead into the jacket. That forms a bond between the lead and the copper. Speer flat bases and Hornady boat tails have very close to the same BC. Both seem to offer an improvement in retention. My conclusion, based on a lot less experience than Ray's, is that Sierras are good for target shooting, Speers are good for deer and "everyday", and that Partitions are for elk. Partitions are harder to mushroom, so are well matched to big beasts with tough hides. A box of 50 is $22.50, and will last me the rest of my life, since a two-shot season is more than I expect. After all, I only get one tag, and why would you shoot twice at anything as big as an elk? ;-) I suspect that some of the horror stories you hear are from using tartget or varmint bullets on big game. | |||
|
| Administrator |
hunting1, Welcome to the forum. As mentioned by our friend Ray above, these bullets, like all "standard" soft or hollow points, will work some of the time and will fail on others. A long time ago I used some factory ammo loaded with standard SP bullets. Their performance was very erratic, so I promised to never use anything but premium bullets for my hunting. ------------------ www.accuratereloading.com | |||
|
| <Don Martin29> |
Sierra bullets are so good however. Of course Atkinson is right but Sierras have killed everything that I have shot them with. To say that Sierras are good for target and Speers are good for some game is wrong. I have found that in the calibers that I shoot that the Sierras and the Nosler Partitions shoot to the same point of aim at 100 yards! This means that I can practice with Sierras and hunt with Partitions. Even a premium bullet can fail. I shot a 165 gr Barnes X into water filled 1/2 gal. milk cartons at short range out off my .300 Win mag. The bullet lost ALL of it's petals! 100%! The shank of the "bullet" looked like something out of a 32 auto and it weighed 80 grains. I won many rifle matches shooting Sierra's. I have a lot of confidence in that product. I recall a friend of mine shooting next to me in a match. He was shooting a 22-250 at 200 yds and was really hot. By the end of the match his bullets were keyholing and he fell apart in the aiming because of the delay in finding his shots in the target. It seems the Hornady's were fouling the bbl. Now that was due of course to a hot load that was not match proved. Just don't make up stuff on Sierra's. The are a outstanding product. The Remington Core lokts' in bulk are a good deal too. They shoot 1 MOA for me. | ||
|
| <tasunkawitko> |
what is your opiniion comparing the sierra game king, the sst and the sirocco? ------------------ | ||
|
| one of us |
So Don, you're saying that you have very good luck shooting Sierras at targets, and Partitions at game. Why are you criticising my statement to the same effect? According to my "read" on the subject, Speer Hot-Cor's mushroom more easily than Partitions, making them better matched to deer sized game. So why are you criticizing my statement that they make a good all around + deer hunting bullet? Most of us won't shoot enough deer and elk in a lifetime to get a good statistical sample of bullet failure rates... Ray might have... Saeed might... but the dozen or two elk that most of might see put down don't constitute a big enough sample to establish the real bullet failure rate for even one brand, let alone three or four. The best we can do is study carefully and try to match our bullet to the situation. For me, those choices are: Partitions for elk. They hold together well, and mushroom slowly, making them well suited to elk. The extra cost is insignificant, given that one box of 50 will last many seasons, even if you share with your friends. Sierras for target shooting at the range. Speer Hot-Cor's for deer, plinking, and target shooting. Their faster expansion rate is well suited to deer and pronghorn, they have a mechanism for keeping core and jacket together for better weight retention, and they carry their weight more forward than Hornady, giving just a little more room in the case. Their "standard" bullet price makes them attractive for most uses. | |||
|
Moderator |
Ya know, reading this thread made me realize that I would rather hunt twice a week with plain cast lead bullets than hunt twice a year with the best premium bullets available! | |||
|
| <Don Martin29> |
Ok Denton use Speers. I have shot a number of deer with Sierras. Most of them were the flat base. All of the deer died fast. But I practice a lot and use calibers that are large for the game. ie .358 Win and 30-06 on deer. I don't really hunt deer with Nosler Partitions. I just load them for big game. I have seen the best accuracy in my rifles over the years with Sierra bullets. The 180 gr .358 Speer bullet out of the .358 Win. is a outstanding bomb for whitetails out to at least 250 yds. My objection is that you inferred that Sierras are only for target. | ||
|
| <North of 60> |
To me it depends what you are hunting. I just moved south to the tree line after spending 9 years in the Baffin region of Northern Canada. My wife and I could get 10 caribou tags /year and we harvested a lot of these between 100-300 pounds in open and/or mountain country. I used the partition and x bullets but got faster kills with "softer" bullets. In my 660 in 6.5 Rem Mag I used the 120 Sierra Gameking. Killed at least 15 caribou with this combination and was very satisfied with the bullet action. ( This was a lucky gun for me). At times the core separated but only after sufficient penetration and after the bullet had absolutely wrecked the lungs . Sierra does vary the jacket thickness of their bullets. The 120 Sierra 6.5 is very light for fast expansion. I wouldn't use them for anything over 300 pounds, on the other hand the 225 grain 358 is pretty stout for bigger game, but the lack of a core lock does limit penetration. On smaller big game this isn't an issue but now that I live in Moose country, I'll need to change my bullet selection. | ||
|
| one of us |
Returned from an African hunt at the end of August. Used only the Sierra 200 grain SBT @ 2870 fps from a .300 WSM. Shot all manner of game from 100 pound Mountain Reedbuck to 600 pound Wildebeest. No bullet failures. Sierra for targets only? Maybe in fantasyland. I like to hunt with a bullet that shoots well on the range, and expands reliably and penetrates well into the vital cavity. The Sierra does that. The bit about cutting the bullet in half and having the core fall out is a joke, as far as what it is trying to imply. Do you have any idea of the heat and pressure generated when the bullet is fired? That process creates a fusing of its own, so the core is not going to "fall out" of the jacket. Check Sierra's website and send them an email regarding their specific bullet you'd like to to use. They will tell you what its recommended use is. For example, the .308 200 SBt and the 7mm 175 SBT have a 3% antimony core which retains weight better than a pure lead core, meaning more penetration. Does the Sierra retain the same percentage of weight as a so-called "super-premium" high-$$$ bullet? No they don't. They also don't burn a hole straight through the game with little or no expansion or shocking power as the super-premium garbage bullets often so. I'd rather expend bullet power in the animal than on the far side to blast down trees and crack rocks. If you wanna use a little calibre to shoot a big animal, maybe the super-penetrators are the only way to do it. For 98% of my hunting, I'll take a normal expanding bullet of good accuracy, in an appropriate cartridge. | |||
|
| One of Us |
quote: Wow. Let me say that backwards. Wow. (I still had to capitalize the first letter, eh?) That explains a lot. Thank you, Denton. I went back to the drawing board long ago, but now I know why. The next question is whether Kuduking is right about in-bore internal bullet bonding. That kind of metallurgy expertise is beyond me. But I've seen some separations in my Speer .270-150 gr boattails that cost me. Denton's post makes common sense even if there's a technical "can't happen" argument against it. Isn't it the hummingbird that "can't fly" technically? Cheers, gents. [This message has been edited by BBBruce (edited 10-29-2001).] | |||
|
| <heavy varmint> |
O.K, I have used about all the cheap bullets available and tested them on game, varmint and the ol box of phone books and now load Hornadys in all my rifles, I have found the results from the Hornady bullets from Vmax up to Interlocks to be the most predictable and dependable. If I ever hunt Elk or larger I would concider a premium bullet but for everything up to Black Bear the Hornady will do reliablely. | ||
|
| <North of 60> |
BBBruce. I for one don't believe that the heat of friction bonds the lead to the copper jacket. To make a bonded bullet you need some sort of a flux or solder (Corbin sells one called corebond or something close to that) This allows for a chemical bond to be established between the two metals. Simple melting won't do it. My bonded bullets really act as a one piece unit. Unbonded bullets can easily suffer from core separations and the Speer and Sierra standard bullets often do. This isn't neccesarily a bad thing on light big game but it happens with unbonded bullets with no mechanical locking device. | ||
|
| <Eric Leonard> |
i shot a 225 pound live wieght deer last year with the 165 siera SBT at almost 3500 fps i cant say if it held together or not it went way out the other side leaving a softball sized hole. use the proper cal. and bullet wieght and you wont have any trouble,most accurate in most of my guns too. | ||
|
| one of us |
No, Kudu, I don't know how much heat and pressure are generated on impact. I would be very interested in seeing the data you have taken on this subject. That must have been an interesting experiment. How did you instrument it? In order to create a good alloy bond on impact, you'd have to heat the bullet until the lead melts, so that surface copper can dissolve in it. I would be extremely interested in seeing an actual example of this, having never seen it before. Standard grade bullets that are formed by forcing a cold lead slug into a copper jacket, without the benefit of something like a crimp or a metal alloy bond have a reputation for occasional core-jacket separation. If you want to say that is nonesense, that's your privilege. If you want to believe that a slug-jacket bond or a crimp do absolutely nothing to improve the chances of core and jacket holding together, that's your privilege, too. All I've said is, given what I've read, the bullets I've cut open, and the experiences I've had, I prefer Sierras for target shooting, and think that other types have an edge in other applications. Why should that bother you? | |||
|
| One of Us |
quote: Makes sense. A couple of years ago I shot a moose (smaller Kootenays version) with .308 cal. 180 grain Speer SP bullets trade named "Hot Cor," or some such. They held together just fine and did a good job penetrating. I've also shot .308-200 grain Barnes X and am impressed - the petals form sharp edges and cut their way through. One went end to end on a black bear at 150 yards and gained 2 grains weight enroute. [This message has been edited by BBBruce (edited 10-30-2001).] | |||
|
| one of us |
We must keep in mind that about any bullet is a deer bullet, a deer is about 6 to 8 inches across..A highly explosive bullet will kill deer like a lightening bolt on a broad side shot....Speer and Sierra are just fine.... Elk, Moose and Eland, Zebra, Wildebeest can be a different story but even the Speer and Sierra will normally work on them...A Nosler, Woodleigh, Northfork or GS will ALWAYS work on them, why risk a $10,000 Safari or $5000. hunt on a lesser bullet, that is the cheapest investment of success you have...Your call, your hunt. ------------------ | |||
|
| <hunting1> |
After all the posts I decided to send Sierra an email and they told me that they know their bullets fragment and dont come out the other side with 100% retention, but that is ok since it deposits all its energy and creates additional wound channels. They also said alot of writers get paid real good to write about those other bullets. I know Noslers are good and some of the others, but those Sierras sure do fly well. Thanks for all the feed back. Good shooting! | ||
|
| one of us |
quote: Denton - It doesn't bother me in the least. America is a great country, shoot whatever you like. It's your right! It's even your right to try to persuade others to buy into the "super-premium" fantasy. It's also my right to say it's a bunch of silly nonsense. Try to stay off the hootch when posting a reply though. Nowhere in my reply, I mean NOWHERE, did I state anything about "heat and pressure of IMPACT" (emphasis added). I think most readers realized I was referring to those factors inside the barrel and chamber when I used the work "FIRING". What test did I conduct? I caught the bullet with my bare hands when it flew out the barrel and then cut it open while still nice and hot. Which would be about as relevant as you cutting open an unfired bullet and then making claims that your experiment has relevance to how a bullet performs after being subjected to 58,000 psi and several hundred degrees of flash temperature, forced down a barrel and swaged in the process, given an initial rotation in excess of 13,000 rpm, and impacting at two to three thousand fps. This whole topic of jacket and core is so much hogwash. A bullet that penetrates well into the chest cavity and fragments into vital organs kills faster than any pseudo-solid. Those are the facts of medical wound ballistics, which unfortunately most folks don't know a whole helluva lot about. So instead they look in advertising brochures for little "mushrooms", or weigh bullets, or demand an "exit wound". The "exit" isn't much of a wound, its just wasted energy once the virtal organs have been penetrated. Now for all those who are gonna write replies about charging buffalo and dangerous polar bears, that is not this topic. The great majority of hunting is not about kill or be killed. And even it it was, the same shot i described kills faster. Questions about breaking through heavy bones and armored hide, and "stopping power", is another topic. Accuracy is the bottom line in hunting, and selling people on wonder bullets is the wrong approach. Nearly all of the major bullet manufacturers make products that work, they wouldn't be in business for as long as they have nor recommending them otherwise. The original poster referred to Sierra .224 bullets and asked about "big game", specifically elk. Would anyone here recommend a .22 CF rifle for elk? Not me. But any Sierra bullet recommended by them in a caliber suitable for big game will work fine. So will a Partition, X or whatever $$$$ or basement bullet someone is using. But I'd rather use a more accurate bullet like the Sierra or Hornady all the time, and I've yet to see consistent accuracy in more than 2 dozen rifles from the so-called "super-premiums". You want experiments? Read the testimonials from hunters who've used them for years with success. And here's a Sierra bullet I recovered from a dead Wildebeest. The jacket and core didn't separate. Maybe I should cut it in half and it will then fall out? | |||
|
| Administrator |
Ladies and Gentlemen, May be we should bear in mind that Sierra bullets, as well as what we classify as normal SP, will work most of the time on game animals, especially ones shot broadside. In hunting places like Africa, where one seldon gets a chance at a broadside shot at an animal through some thick bush, the failures of these bullets tends to get amplified, and a wounded animal might be the result. What happens then is a whole day of wasted tracking a wounded animals. He will awalys run downwind, will see or hear you before you are able to see him. If you get lucky, you will get another chance to finish him off. This does not happen when you use a premium bullet. Penetrating bullets like the Barnes X tend to spoil us sometimes, as we can shoot an animal from just about any angle, knowing full well the bullet will make it to teh chest cavity to cause some serious damage. ------------------ www.accuratereloading.com | |||
|
| <Herb D> |
Having used Sierra 100 gr. & 120 gr. 25 cal bullets exclusively for over 40 years on deer, feral pig & antelope with 95% or better one shot kills at ranges up to 350 yards convinces me that Sierra has a good product.
| ||
|
| One of Us |
I have been delighted with Sierra 130 grain .277's on deer. I am equally as delighted with the Nosler ballistic tip in that caliber and weight. For elk, I have often used the Sierra 250 .338, but the bullet is softer than I would prefer, although it is great for long shots. Better go with the Nosler or another premium bullet for heavy game. If you are using the likes of a .243 or .257, better limit the Sierras to varmints and stick to noslers for deer. | |||
|
| <ssleefl> |
I've read this BS thread & you guys long enough.The orininal question that hunting1 posted was how .224 bullets perform on elk sized game. If I'm interpreting the question correctly, I would expect everyone here to say don't shoot an elk with such a bullet. READ BEFORE YOU ARGUE!!! At least answer the guys question. ------------------ Most divorces are based on disagreements over small matters, so are most murders. | ||
|
| One of Us |
ssleefl, I think the question was how SIERRA BULLETS perform on elk sized game, not how Sierra .224 bullets perform on elk sized game. Such a question would be silly beyond imagination. Why do you object to the related comments that forumites choose to offer? There is no reason to get all wrapped around the axle. | |||
|
| <dartonvpr> |
Well, now I have to admit that I have hunted with Nosler bullets. Not because they are better than the Sierra bullets I use, but because I lived in the same town they were made in, and they were easy to come by. I've shot Deer, Elk, Bear, Antelope, coyotes, Hogs,and even a gator with Sierra bullets and the only one I ever had to track was my fault, but I did recover it. I have also shot them with Nosler bullets with the same results. So prove to me how the Sierra bullets are inferior to the "premium" bullets. More expensive doesn't make them better, just more expensive. | ||
|
| <ssleefl> |
500GRAINS Sorry, I was mearly putting 2 & 2 together. Here is one of nine of hunter1's previous posts. "If you wanted an elk, black bear, and deer rifle for shots 200-yards and closer, what caliber would you choose? | ||
|
| <hunting1> |
Come on elk with a .224 don't read into that deep. I symply was asking how they worked on big game in resonable big game cartridges. Relax. Good shooting, and FYI the 40gr BK took a bobcat this weekend with no exit wound at 50 yards. I think I will use them on deer size game and smaller Nosler for the big stuff. Thanks all. | ||
|
| one of us |
I remember when the only component bullets available were Sierras and I hunted with them for years, before the advent of Premiums and we had failures all the time, I have a lot of Sierras that came apart in Deer and they all came apart in elk, for the most part....they killed them and that may be the bottom line, again for the most part... I lived through a decade of failing bullets, and that decade brought about the premium bullets we have today, we hunters demanded better bullet, we created the premium market out of a need, and to say the regular bullets are as good as the premiums is just so much hogwash that comes from a lack of experience...read early O'Connor, Keith, and the older gunwriters, even Agaard, they were constantly referring to bullet failure. It happened, end of story. ------------------ | |||
|
| one of us |
After reading this thread I think people should refer to commen sense when choosing their bullets. Any bullet will fail when used at their extremes. A 30 cal 180gr barns X when shot at a broadside whitetail at 300 yards might not expand satisfactory. On the same token a 30 cal 150 gr sierra might not penetrate satisfactory on a elks shoulder at 100 yards. Yet switch the two bullets around and the situations they might perform great. Point being there is no 100 percent perfect bullet. But you can come close to matching the bullet you use for 90 percent of your hunting situations. Happy hunting | |||
|
| <Don Martin29> |
I don't think that premium bullets are "fail safe". They can fail too. As I reported I shot a 165 gr Barnes X bullet into 1/2 gallon water filled paper cartons out of a .300 Win mag. ALL OF THE PETALS blew off!! What was left weighted 80 grains!!! Go ahead Barnes. Tell me it's not so! What's far more effective is to use enough gun. Whats even more effective is to aim and hit well. | ||
|
| <Don Krakenberger> |
Sorry but I have to quote previous posters from all other forums. "at what time in the death of the jug of water did the barnes x bullet fail"? In all reality even with out the pedals, barnes x bullets can be extremely fatal. There are bullet manufacturers right now making flat faced bullets that are not intended to expand that do one heck of a job of killing BIG animals at relatively slow speeds. ONe such is the garret bullet in a 45-70. Ive use sierra--hornady, nosler, x bullets, you name it--just know what you are going to use them for and why and your won't have trouble. | ||
|
| Administrator |
Don Martin, Did that bullet kill the jug? Seriously though, on many of the Barnes X bulets that I have recovered, the petals, some or all of them, seem to have come off. But, that did not stop the bullet keeping a high percentage of its weight, and penetrating enough to do its job. On the new Barnes X, they have changed the design so that the cavity is wider, but not as deep. What this means the bullet retaines more weight, even if it looses its petals. ------------------ www.accuratereloading.com | |||
|
| one of us |
I've killed several deer and one small bear with a 7mm Remington Magnum loaded with Siearra 160 grain BTSP Gamekings,loaded to about 2850 FPS.They have all came apart on what I've shot,but nothing left it's tracks.I'd call that acceptable bullet performance,wouldn't you? My father shot a 120 pound blacktail about a month ago with this load.Range was about 100 yards.He hit the buck in the center of the shoulder.The buck literaly dropped in his tracks.Most of the jacket was just under the hide on the opposite shoulder,with a tiny piece of lead left.I have it here in front of me.Picture perfect mushroom?No,it didn't even retain 40% of it's weight,BUT it killed that buck deader than a doornail and quite cleanly. I don't think I'd use this bullet on big elk,but for deer sized game it certainly works fine. ------------------ | |||
|
| one of us |
quote:
John | |||
|
one of us |
Depends on the bullet. The 308 cal 200 gr the 338 250 gr and the 375 300 gr are all a very different animal! I have seen their use and I was impressed. I have also seen the 308 165 Gameking blow up like a frag grenade on a small deer doe from a 30-06. ------------------ | |||
|
| one of us |
I quit using sierra's because I had two failures in one year. The first was a hit on an antelopes shoulder bone at 30 yards. Bullet blew up on surface and made a crater wound 5 inches across. It barely broke shoulder bone. This was a .270 130 gr. flat base pushed at 3000 fps. This animal was eventually recovered. The second was a hit through the ribs of a wounded elk at 450 yards. No expansion. this was a .338 250gr boat tail pushed at 2700 fps. The elk I took that year hit behind the shoulder with the .338 dropped on the spot. Truly though you can't expect bullets to both penetrate large bones at short range and expand on ribs at long range. Unless of course you use partitions! | |||
|
one of us |
I'm sorry, but Kuduking made a statement that is complete and utter nonsense. "accuracy is the bottom line in hunting" -- that's baloney. I'll take a 3" gun with premium bullets over a .5" inch gun with conventional bullets everytime. Every time. Secondly, what's with the 200 grain bullet in a WSM? I can get more energy, velocity, and thus less drop and LESS DRIFT, with a good 150 or 165 bullet. Try shooting any Sierra into anything at 3100 fps or so, and see what happens. Then try it with an X or GS. With conventional bullets you are ALWAYS limited in the speeds you can use. Hey, I shoot 250 gr. Hot Cores out of my Whelen. At 2500 fps, through and through on a moose. Does that mean I should use one in my 7mag at 3200 fps? Tried that once, what a mess! JMO, Dutch. | |||
|
| <Rogue 6> |
Two seasons ago I took a nice 5x6 Roosevelt at about 150 yards with a hot 300 win mag load using 180 sierra gamekings exiting the barrel around 3125 fps. The shot was a classic quartering away shot. The bullet entered the chest cavity and blew through the far front shoulder. The exited was normal size about an inch or two. The lungs and heart where destroyed and I had my bull. I didn't realize I had loaded such a worthless bullet or I wouldn't have taken the shot. That chart showing all the 30 cal bullets a few years ago was a real eye opener. I think it was 11-98 shooting times but I'd bet I'm wrong about the issue. This year I dump a blacktail buck at a long ways off with the 165 hpbt gameking. That bullet is a nice shooter, and alot more solid than the ballist tips. I only had good experiences with them, but I generally stick to the Hornady, Sierra, Corelokt type bullets anyway. Yes I've bought and used about them all, so what I haven't really seen a big difference. | ||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia
| View $GS_USERNAME's Public Profile |
| Add $GS_USERNAME to my Buddies |
| Add $GS_USERNAME to my Ignore List |
| Invite $GS_USERNAME to a Private Topic |
| View Recent Posts by $GS_USERNAME |
| Notify me of New Posts by $GS_USERNAME |
