The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Hunting American Big Game Hunting Sierra Bullets?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Sierra Bullets? | Login/Join |
one of us |
I'M throwing the B.S. flag!!! Everybody will use what they think works until it doesn't and then what??? I know that heavy for caliber bullets don't come apart as easy as light ones. On the same note picking a shot according to your ability and what's loaded in your gun is what makes you a hunter and not a shooter. There isn't any reason not to pass on a poor shot for your bullet choice! I am more impressed by a hunter who shows restraint and makes clean kills than one who holds a handful of brass as he tells his story. I used 140gr. Sierra spbt, in a 7mm RM on Mule Deer in Idaho this year. I shot one a little over a hundred yards quartering away and a second broadside. Both bullets fully penetrated after much damage to vitals. Did my Sierras fail? I guess I don't get the point of such a heated debate. If you shoot bones you need to shoot a heavier and tougher bullet. If you shoot into the vitals first you don't need such a bullet. Know what it is you are using and use it accordingly! | |||
|
| <Bill> |
Big Nate, interesting choice of words, I usually "wave the B.S. flag" ------------------ | ||
|
One of Us |
Reading some of the posts in here one might get the impression that the Barnes X and NP invented consistent killing. How did we ever get by without them before they came along??? I think the so called "premium" bullet developments are good to see though, maybe someday soon their production will become more competetive which will be good for all of us as hunters. But still, Im glad to see that not everyone buys into the notion that anything else just isnt good enough. Bullet makers have been trying to re-invent the wheel for a long time and progress has been slow to say the least.
[This message has been edited by Wstrnhuntr (edited 12-07-2001).] | |||
|
| <Paul Dustin> |
I AGREE WITH RAY AND SAEED YOU SAID IT ALL | ||
|
one of us |
Horror story, OK, I made a bad decision and shot at a doe running away from me at 50 yds. Hit her in the butt found the bullet in her ham after a 3 hr tracking job and another shot.Bullet had mde a mushroom but didn't pentrate like I thought it should have. I now shoot Nosler's or Hornady no problems since. 6mm Rem at 2850, 100 gr bullet. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Hunting 1, I use the sierra 300 gr HP's in my 45/70 and there ideal for thin skinnned game they open up real fast, however I don't think there up to task on heavier stuff as they shed there Jackets, I have heard this carries over with other calibres. Regards PC. ------------------ | |||
|
| one of us |
quote: I guess that says it all. Dutch is right, and O'Connor, et al (and me) have it all wrong: lousy accuracy is good enough. I heartly agree for all those who cannot shoot better than 3" anyway. But why not take up shotgunning, or golf? As for your comments on the 200 grain Sierra, try cracking open a loading manual before cracking open your keyboard. Here are the comparisons of the 150 grain SBT at 3300 fps and the 200 grain SBT at 2800 fps from the .300 WSM: 300 Yard Wind Drift (10 mph): 150 = 11.3" 300 Yard Energy: 150 = 2229 fpe (Source Sierra Manual 2d Edition) Any other brilliant observations? | |||
|
one of us |
Oh, good grief! We aren't comparing Sierra's 200 against Sierra's 150! Take that comparison, and use the 150 Barnes XBT, and what do you get? Wind drift: Energy on Target: But, for someone who shoots at these long ranges all the time, I suppose cutting 30% off your wind drift is no big deal, I suppose. I just keep shooting my moose, deer and elk with my inaccurate guns and those newfangled bullets at reasonable ranges. Dutch. | |||
|
| one of us |
Sorry, Dutch, I thought we were talking about expanding bullets. Why don't you compare that virtual-FMJ "X" bullet with a Sierra of comparable expansion.... maybe a 200 Matchking? In addition, comparing B.C.s of different manufacturers is like comparing apples and oranges. They use differing shape coefficients, as one example, and come up with their own results. Compare your 150 grain X with a 200 grain X and your 150 grainer loses AGAIN. And since so much of what surrounds and is written by and for Barnes about the terminal effect of the "X" bullet is a cloud of BS, I have real reason to doubt their external ballistic claims as well. I have yet to see their bullets shoot accurately (not by your 1880's era standards of course) or exceed the terminal effect of a Sierra, Hornady, Speer or Nosler. Sierra is relied upon by serious shooters and has been tested in the more rigorous field of competition. Their ballistic data is accurate. | |||
|
| <sure-shot> |
Just my thoughts, I go with Ray and Saeed. The premium bullets are the way to go, at least for shooting big game. I'm a die-hard Nosler Partition fan, these bullets have killed some of my best trophys for me. I have to admit though the Barnes X bullets have my attention too.(In part to Saeed and this great forum no doubt!  ) My current rifle project is a 30/06. I hope it likes the Barnes 165 Xs.As for core separation with conventional bullets it can occurr as the bullet slows down during its path thru the animal, the bullet starts to tumble thus producing a core separation. I recovered two Nosler ballistic tips(30-165gr & 7mm-140gr) out of a large bear we shot this year just under the off-side shoulder hide, both bullets had shed their cores a few inches apart. I used to shoot Sierras for deer, about the same performance as a ballistic tip I guess. I like complete penetration on all big game especially on elk and big bears. Sierras probably will work for some shots but you know perfect shots are not always possible so Sierras are out at least for me. sure-shot P.S for KuduKing, I don't think the Barnes Co is full of B.S. I viewed some video footage of Barnes bullets in action- you would be humbled I believe. [This message has been edited by sure-shot (edited 12-08-2001).] | ||
|
| one of us |
KuduKing, This is the year, what, 2001? Any buffoon and his buddy, each with a chronograph and a drag racer's weather calculator can pretty actually measure the BC of a bullet. If Barnes' numbers were off by any significant margin, somebody would have called them on it by now. As for terminal performance, sure, if you shoot a whitetail with a 200 Sierra it will do the job. The X bullet's claim to fame (along with many other "premium" bullets) is getting the job done when things aren't so easy--usually meaning deep penetration. Here's a page with a bunch of penetration tests:
Examples: A 140 X from a 7mm-08 out penetrates a 250 Sierra Gameking from a 340 Weatherby by nearly an inch. A 210 X from the 340 beats the 250 Sierra by nearly 8 inches. No, they don't make as big a wound channel. But they penetrate. Some like that because they make exit holes no matter the angle of the shot (given the proper caliber/bullet weight). And they never loose their core and fail to get where the shooter wanted them to get (the vitals). Whether or not that's what you want from a bullet is, of course, your call. But that's how they perform. The above page looks pretty objective and independantly done to me. He gives the results in black and white. They are what they are. I, and God only knows how many others, have observed similar results. If you think they're BS. OK, go ahead and think that. | |||
|
| one of us |
As far as accuracy goes, all my X-bullet loads go three shots for 1", one goes 5 for 1". That's 270, 280, 7mag. The only one I have not found that load for is a 243 handi rifle, but it doesn't shoot anything under 3", anymore. 3 shots in an inch is plenty fine in any elk or even mule deer hunting situation. Heck, as I said, 3 for three inches would work just fine. I'm not shooting them at p-dogs. As for the rest for Kudu's post, I give up. Dutch. | |||
|
| one of us |
I use Sierra 130gr bt's in my 20" barrel 270win Mark X Mannlicher. They chrono at 2900fps, I have never recovered a bullet, I shot a buck at about 80yds, he was running toward me at an angle, the bullet struck his right shoulder, and penetrated to his left hind quarter and came to rest just under the skin, it had a text book perfect mushroom. | |||
|
| one of us |
I like the GS monolithics but I am definately not a BarnesX fan as I have had them fail more than once and seen them fail more than once...Others with as much experience as I like them such as Saeed but he pushes them faster in larger guns than I do so that may be the difference... Ross Seyfried, Barnes promoter and gun editor, told me the other day that he has gone to the Fail Safe because Barnes has let quality control go to hell and I agree with that..When they work they work wonderfully, when they fail they fail miserably.. Give me a Fail Safe, Northfork, Nosler, Woodleigh or GS, not necessarily in that order. My favorite? schools been out on that one for years but the above all work fine under about all conditions.. I don't even mess with conventional bullets anymore, I put up with their ocasional failures for the first 20 years of my hunting career and I don't have to do that anymore, and good ridence.. ------------------ | |||
|
One of Us |
I believe the photo of the 308 Gameking recovered from the Wildebeest says it all. The bullet left the muzzle at 2880 fps so at 200 yards it was probably in the 2550 or so fps range. The bullet did it's job. However, take that same bullet at 3000 plus fps, and strike the same animal in the shoulder and you WILL have problems. Sierras are great for deer but in Africa, where shots at game came at all distances, you are taking your chances with a Sierra. jorge | |||
|
| <dennishoddy> |
I'm new to te bb, but a vet in the field of reloading for the 06 mainly. I just wanted to put my experience with sierra bullets out for discussion. I have almost always shot the 165 grain hollow point boat tail game king for white tail. 55 deer have fallen to this round, while about 10 have fallen to other bullets I've tried.(hornady, and sierra soft points) The main thing I look for in a bullet is what kind of damage the internal organs sustain. The soft point bullets in a lung shot, pass thru leaving a small hole 3X the entrance hole. Internally where it counts, the lungs and surrounding tissue retain normal colors with damage only where the bullet has passed. With the sierra hpbt, the exit wound is 4-5X the size of the entrance wound, with the internal organs pretty much jellified by the(my theory)hydrostatic shock of the bullet. It just makes them a real mess inside with all organs receiving damage and hemmorage. They just drop in their tracks. The deer when hit with the soft point bullets tend to want to run a little ways. Water jugs and wet paper will not substitute for actual tissue when testing for damage. ------------------ | ||
|
| one of us |
dennishoddy, I too shoot that same bullet and while I'm at about 15 whitetail/mulies shot I'd say I agree 100%. I know my gunsmith, who's well over 100 deer & about 20 moose and several elk with the same Sierra 165 HPBT GK, feels the same way. Furthermore, he has numerous clients shooting the same load who will say the same thing as I...it works. Of course these rifles are extremely accurate and these guys all place their shots pretty well generally. I kind of get a chuckle out of some of these discussions about Sierra Game King bullets as I think it can be condensed down to a fairly common thread. If you want/need to shoot through the front shoulder to then penetrate the vitals then MAYBE you do need a different (more solid) bullet. I can't really say as I tend to shoot in right behind the shoulder and see damage as dennishoddy described quite well in the previous post, a complete gelatinous mess of the lung/heart area to use my words. I generally hunt open country and can generally get away with waiting for a quality shot. If one hunts in different conditions maybe something different is in order. One thing about this, I know when I made a good shot because the animal drops instantly and I think there's a lot to be said for that ability versus having it run even when hit well. Reed | |||
|
| one of us |
I wouldn't think that it comes as any great surprise that a Sierra HP designed for targets will expand and blow great impressive entrance and exit holes and ruin a great deal of meat also, furthemore on ocassions they will come apart like a bomb and may or may not kill, but they will certainly mame. One should restrict himself to broadside shots on deer and using them on elk is purely BS at its highest.... The Sierra HP are not for me because of the meat damage on deer, and I want a bullet that will also kill an animal from any angle and the Sierra HP's will not do that consistantly...I won't quote all the great numbers of game I have shot, but I could equal the above on a single day in Africa on a cull hunt and have on nemourous ocassions. I used the Sierras for years and witnessed many a failure, thats all a handloader had.. I don't have to deal with that anymore, I don't use them on big game..I will use the soft point gamekings on deer only. I believe a hunter should have the responsibility to use a premium bullet to shoot game. It is a very inexpensive outlay of cash... ------------------ | |||
|
| one of us |
Through experiences I have had with sierra bullets they make an excellent accurate bullet that should stay on the rifle range and in competition. For hunting purposes Swift siroccos,Aframes, Barns X and other premiums are the way to go. You don't always have that perfect shot nor the ability to guaranty that you wont hit some sort of bone. And sierras don't like bones very much. Happy Hunting | |||
|
| one of us |
The probability of a bullet "failing" is due to two things: the quality control exercised at the plant, and the speed/usage of the bullet. Most bullets have an optimum velocity window where they perform the best; Sierra's are no different that the rest on that point. Standard bullets will give a standard performance at moderate velocities. Using them for situations they weren't designed for, or velocities much greater than they can strusturally take, ups the likelihood they will "fail". Will Sierra bullets work on elk? Their GameKings should be expected to. But the GameKing is not a Partition or a Barnes X or even a Grand Slam, so.... ...if you're comfortable with a standard bullet on an expensive elk hunt, use it. There are many who use those Core-Lockt bullets on big game to great success. That particular bullet gets maligned quite often on forums. However, if you want to have a little more confidence, then plunk down a few more dollars and get a premium bullet. TXLoader | |||
|
| one of us |
In case it wasn't clear I'm referring to deer hunting with gameking bullets...not matchking. Sierra themselves will tell you not to hunt with matchkings. I would agree that MK's should not be used on elk and go further to say that they should not be used on deer either, not even broadside shots. I won't kid anybody though, I'm using them based on the recommendation of my gunsmith who I respect implicitly but I wish they were bonded to their core moreso than simply being constructed of a thicker jacket. Nevertheless I've had extremely good luck with them to date. If I ever have the good fortune to chase after something bigger I will probably look into something appropriate to the task. Perhaps something appropriate to those tasks is NOT appropriate to deer? Another angle. Some of these bullets that run 3-8x more $$ per shot tend to make some practice less than they should. I know just where my 165 HPBT GK is going at 25, 50, 75, 100, 150, 200, 250, 300, 350, 400, 450, and 500 yards. I don't generally take a shot over 400 yards but I know where to aim when I'm limited to that type of shot. I've practiced enough that I don't seem to have much trouble hitting precisely what I aim at regardless of the distance. I firmly believe that the extra practice employing the same exact load used during hunting season makes for an extremely deadly combination for deer. I realize that many hunters don't practice even with "cheap" bullets so maybe a better penetrator/bone crusher is in order but that's a poor combination as I suggest they should practice. Practice is the key such that the target is hit well. I believe there's more going on behind the rifle than there is in front of the case... Lastly, regarding "meat damage." I've never experienced anything terribly different from the damage inflicted by other "premium" bullets (from what I've witnessed of co-hunters) although I do typically shoot through the ribs and not any of the quarters. Oh well, this is a subjective exercise that will probably rage on and on... Reed | |||
|
| one of us |
Reed, I agree with that, I doubt if it makes much difference what bullet is used on deer unless one takes going away shots, and I do so I want at least a corelokt or better, it soothes my soul, gives me an edge. ------------------ | |||
|
one of us |
Only shot one deer with a gameking. Bullet stopped on the skin on the opposite side nicely mushroomed. It was a 165 bt game king in a 300 win mag. The deer was below me and about 100 yrds away. The bullet hit high on the right side and stopped low on the left side getting both lungs. | |||
|
one of us |
This thread is as bad as a "which is better, Ford or Chevy". | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia
| View $GS_USERNAME's Public Profile |
| Add $GS_USERNAME to my Buddies |
| Add $GS_USERNAME to my Ignore List |
| Invite $GS_USERNAME to a Private Topic |
| View Recent Posts by $GS_USERNAME |
| Notify me of New Posts by $GS_USERNAME |
