What is it? A mountain lion or a bobcat?

Link, photo, description ? If it's 200 lbs it's probably a mountain lion !

It's Superman, LOL!

quote:

Originally posted by mete:
Link, photo, description ? If it's 200 40 lbs it's probably a mountain lion !

Fixed it.

Depends on the tale

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer:
Depends on the tale

It's definitely not a dog!


GWB

Appears to be a Mexican Lion to me. They are fairly numerous in deep south Texas.

It's Mountain Lion.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
It's Mountain Lion.

For sure

definitely Mountain Lion

Lot of tail there for a "bobcat".

Grizz

If you ever see one of these three photos in a game camera. Just delete it and don't show anyone.

Its a chupakabra, no doubt about it!

Hodag for sure

If sincere, it's a dumb question.

A Mexican Lion is a sub-species of the mountain lion that lives in the arid regions of Mexico and Texas. The term Mexican Lion is probably just a Texas local name, but they don't get as big as a Rocky Mountain Mountain Lion.
We see them in the Rio Grande Valley and up around Kingsville. They have been known to roam 1,000 miles or so during the breeding season.

Mountain Lions, are Mountain Lions, are Mountain Lions! Does not matter if they come from the extreme southern part of their range in South America or the northern limit in Canada.

The Mountain Lion has 42 common names in English and when Spanish and Indian names are added the number goes past 100.

They are all the same animal. There are slight differences in body lengths/hair color and weight depending upon the geographic location of the particular animal, but they are all still Mountain Lions.

I concur with Crazyhorse (I am not sure I have ever written that before, but it is what it is).

Some people in some areas say cougar, and they are listed by their wildlife management agency as that. I guess that is a perfectly normal thing to call one.

A stupid thing to call one is panther.

Panther is the other name for leopard.

Cougar (mountain lion) where I live. That's what it appears to be in the photo. Maybe a young one?

Well, I'm not a biologist, but those small Mountain Lions or Mexican Lions, whatever you want to call them, are fairly common in Deep South Texas. I've seen them on several occasions. See their tracks more often than actually see the Lion, but I have seen the cat on two occasions. They are very secretive. They do not get as big as a Mountain Lion from the Rocky Mountains.

quote:

Originally posted by swampshooter:
Well, I'm not a biologist, but those small Mountain Lions or Mexican Lions, whatever you want to call them, are fairly common in Deep South Texas. I've seen them on several occasions. See their tracks more often than actually see the Lion, but I have seen the cat on two occasions. They are very secretive. They do not get as big as a Mountain Lion from the Rocky Mountains.

I'm not sure how big Rocky Mt lions get but a friend killed one on his ranch last fall, just N of my place, about 25 mi from Mexico as the crow flies that weighed 138 pounds. Pretty good sized cat IMO, Mexican or not.

They are relatively common in that area.

quote:

They do not get as big as a Mountain Lion from the Rocky Mountains.

It has been a long time since I used such terms, but there are two accepted and fairly well established scientific concepts involved with animals/birds in the Americas.

One pertains to size, the other pertains to coloration, they are not necessarily steadfast and there are or can be variations.

The first, the one pertaining to size deals with the concept that the farther north a species lives, the larger it gets. This just pertains to normal/natural free ranging populations. Mexican Grey Wolves are smaller than the naturally occurring Grey Wolves that lived in the Yellowstone region, before the larger Canadian Grey Wolves that were used in the re-introduction programs, which are smaller than the Grey Wolves that live in the Arctic.

The differences are not always huge, but they are significant enough to be a part of the identifying criteria.

Same thing applies to Mountain Lions, with those in Texas on down into Mexico/Central and South America being smaller in varying degrees than those in Colorado and farther north in the Rockies.

The other "concept" deals with coloration, in which going from east to west some species become darker in color the farther west the species lives.

As I say, I can not remember the names given the two "Rules" but they have been used as base criteria for decades.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

They do not get as big as a Mountain Lion from the Rocky Mountains.

It has been a long time since I used such terms, but there are two accepted and fairly well established scientific concepts involved with animals/birds in the Americas.

One pertains to size, the other pertains to coloration, they are not necessarily steadfast and there are or can be variations.

The first, the one pertaining to size deals with the concept that the farther north a species lives, the larger it gets. This just pertains to normal/natural free ranging populations. Mexican Grey Wolves are smaller than the naturally occurring Grey Wolves that lived in the Yellowstone region, before the larger Canadian Grey Wolves that were used in the re-introduction programs, which are smaller than the Grey Wolves that live in the Arctic.

The differences are not always huge, but they are significant enough to be a part of the identifying criteria.

Same thing applies to Mountain Lions, with those in Texas on down into Mexico/Central and South America being smaller in varying degrees than those in Colorado and farther north in the Rockies.

The other "concept" deals with coloration, in which going from east to west some species become darker in color the farther west the species lives.

As I say, I can not remember the names given the two "Rules" but they have been used as base criteria for decades.

Bergmann's Rule applies to size relative to climate. Allen's Rule applies to shape of an animal relative to climate. Not sure about the Rule that deals with color.

Thank You.

I could not remember either of them and had completely forgotten about Allen's Rule.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

The differences are not always huge, but they are significant enough to be a part of the identifying criteria.... with those in Texas on down into Mexico/Central and South America being smaller in varying degrees than those in Colorado and farther north in the Rockies.

The other "concept" deals with coloration, in which going from east to west some species become darker in color the farther west the species lives.\

Now I know why Mexicans are smaller and darker than people north and east of them in the USA.

I am not sure it works that way with humans!

Hell, I've always heard "everythings bigger in Texass".

Biggest mtn lion I can recall weighed 230lbs up here. We get one visiting in town at times, quite a few in CO/Spgs as that's built up into the hills now.

George

People say a lot of stuff about Texas, but it ain't always true.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

They do not get as big as a Mountain Lion from the Rocky Mountains.

It has been a long time since I used such terms, but there are two accepted and fairly well established scientific concepts involved with animals/birds in the Americas.

One pertains to size, the other pertains to coloration, they are not necessarily steadfast and there are or can be variations.

The first, the one pertaining to size deals with the concept that the farther north a species lives, the larger it gets. This just pertains to normal/natural free ranging populations. Mexican Grey Wolves are smaller than the naturally occurring Grey Wolves that lived in the Yellowstone region, before the larger Canadian Grey Wolves that were used in the re-introduction programs, which are smaller than the Grey Wolves that live in the Arctic.

The differences are not always huge, but they are significant enough to be a part of the identifying criteria.

Same thing applies to Mountain Lions, with those in Texas on down into Mexico/Central and South America being smaller in varying degrees than those in Colorado and farther north in the Rockies.

The other "concept" deals with coloration, in which going from east to west some species become darker in color the farther west the species lives.

As I say, I can not remember the names given the two "Rules" but they have been used as base criteria for decades.

The size theory that is called "Bergmanns rule". Allene rule applies to shape a f the animal Neither theory accounts for coloration.

Color depends more on habitat and migration over time as much as anything.

Bergmans rule has an upper limit.

Artic Island Caribou (they are often called Peary) are the smallest sub species of caribou.

I am a wildlife biologist (by education, not avocation). I was always taught that Bergman's rule is pretty good, but not always a 100% shot.

It doesn't work on every species.

How does is go when there is both cases of Island Gigantism and Island Dwarfism? Seems they go one way or the other when species are refined to an island.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:
Bergmans rule has an upper limit.

Artic Island Caribou (they are often called Peary) are the smallest sub species of caribou.

I am a wildlife biologist (by education, not avocation). I was always taught that Bergman's rule is pretty good, but not always a 100% shot.

It doesn't work on every species.

Good point. Nature is full of exceptions. I imagine getting far enough north would be one of them.

quote:

Originally posted by Certus:
How does is go when there is both cases of Island Gigantism and Island Dwarfism? Seems they go one way or the other when species are refined to an island.

Because there is no money in studies of wildlife, scientist regularly come up with ideas, do studies, write papers, and then it is all up to the salesmanship of the scientist to get more money for funding.

As I mentioned above I don't work in the field because I have 4 daughters to feed, put diapers on and eventually send to college.

quote:

Originally posted by Big Wonderful Wyoming:

quote:

Originally posted by Certus:
How does is go when there is both cases of Island Gigantism and Island Dwarfism? Seems they go one way or the other when species are refined to an island.

Because there is no money in studies of wildlife, scientist regularly come up with ideas, do studies, write papers, and then it is all up to the salesmanship of the scientist to get more money for funding.

As I mentioned above I don't work in the field because I have 4 daughters to feed, put diapers on and eventually send to college.

I have two friends who are wildlife biologists. Your statement above is the sad but undeniable truth!

I don't understand why the Florida Panther is recognized as a sub-species but the Mexican Lion is not. At least by some non-biologists posting on here.

quote:

Originally posted by swampshooter:
I don't understand why the Florida Panther is recognized as a sub-species but the Mexican Lion is not. At least by some non-biologists posting on here.

More due to "politics" than anything else.

I remember not too long ago where they had all sorts of subspecies for some critters before DNA mapping got to the place where it is now. White-tailed deer are prime examples. Yet what they are finding is that all these subspecies sport near identical DNA profiles that say a big cougar in MT is no different than a small cougar in TX.

In reality, that is also true of the FL panther; except for a location that is quite isolated from all the others. So about 50 years ago when the numbers dropped way down, they decided to "conserve" and protect it.

That's where the political aspects creep in. Of course, it's been considered endangered for decades now and will likely always will be, especially since they have been able to increase the overall population.

However, if some biologist declares the basic DNA of the Florida version is no different than every other lion in north America, the only reason to have it listed as an endangered subspecies is location. Don't look for anything to change soon in that regard. So don't start planning a hunt just yet.

Took this photo when I hunted my Osceola turkey on the Seminole reservation.

. They have been known to roam 1,000 miles or so during the breeding season.[/QUOTE]

I've been known to roam that far for the same reason!!!

Zeke

CITES says there are only these sub-species. Splitters probably add some more.

P. c. cougar: North America
P. c. costaricensis: Central America
P. c. capricornensis: eastern South America
P. c. concolor: northern South America
P. c. cabrerae: central South America
P. c. puma: southern South America.

The USFWS has this to say:

BLUF "Florida "panthers" have Texas mountain lion strain blood in them. A Florida panther is just a mountain lion that lives in Florida.

More than a century ago, natural genetic exchange occurred between the Florida panther and other contiguous populations of Puma concolor. This exchange, known as gene flow, occurred as individuals dispersed among populations and bred. Gene flow helped maintain a genetic variation and a healthy population of Florida panthers by reducing the probability of inbreeding.

However, beginning with early European colonization and continuing through the 19th Century, the panther population began to decline and became geographically isolated from other puma populations, eliminating gene flow. The combination of a lack of gene flow and the small isolated nature of the population resulted in increased levels of inbreeding in panthers that subsequently had a negative impact on genetic variation, survival rates, and overall fitness of individuals.

If action was not taken to address the lack of gene flow, scientists feared that this genetic bottleneck would lead to the eventual extinction of the Florida panther. Between 1991 and 1994, biologists convened three workshops to discuss the genetic health of the Florida panther population. Experts in the fields of genetics, conservation biology, captive breeding, and panther biology participated. Scientists concluded that some means of restoring a level of gene flow to the population was critical to improving the genetic health of the panther and its long-term prospect for recovery.

A genetic restoration plan was implemented in 1995 with the release of eight female pumas from Texas into Florida panther habitat in southern Florida. Texas pumas (P. c. stanleyana) were the closest extant puma population to Florida and the intent of this plan was to mimic the gene flow that historically occurred between these subspecies. Five of the eight Texas pumas produced a total of at least 20 kittens. None of the original eight Texas pumas remain in the wild population today; five died from various causes and the remaining three were removed from the wild and placed in captivity after they produced a sufficient number of offspring. Subsequent analyses have already documented the beneficial impacts of genetic restoration on the genetic health of the population as well as the coinciding increase in panther abundance since 1995.

Its a Mt. Lion...
A Mexican LIon is a Mt. Lion that is an legal alien that can swim the Rio Grande, no difference other than language..

This is so obvious that Im amazed the question was asked on a hunting blog.