as the title says,

a friend of mine has drawn her first elk tag this year; and she needs a rifle.

she is short, her bow is 23.5" draw. so i'm thinking a youth rifle; such as ruger american, weatherby vanguard, tikka, etc...

they can't drop a ton of coin on a rifle/scope combo at the moment; and i think the accuracy of the rifles listed above are pretty good for the price.

to the real question...what caliber?

she does not shoot much, so i want to keep the recoil to a minimum if possible, but want enough juice for an elk.
.308, 7mm-08, etc...? i'll steer her towards premium bullets and heavier bullets as her shots should stay well within 200 yards.

any suggestions or experiences you can share?

thank you

I like the Browning Micro rifles. You can get a Micro Midas in several calibers from 7-08, 308 and even 270WSM if she is up to it. I know a lot of folks don't take a shine to Browning, but the Micro platform is perfect for people who like shorter length of pull without spending a ton of money. I have an older Micro-Medallion in 308 that I love.

They even make the darn thing in pink camo if that is her wish.

One thing to consider is that if you go with "premium" bullets you don't have to go heavy, for a small person this only increases recoil.
My oldest boys first elk was taken with a .284 win, downloaded a bit (2600 or 2700 fps) and shooting speer 130 grain hot cores. It killed his first Buck and Bull just fine.
Yes .308 or 7-08 sound fine but no matter what cartridge you pick have her start with youth loads or a similar rifle in a smaller caliber
You don't want a small person getting pounded by the rifle and not having any fun let alone developing bad habits that will be hard to break.
I'd much rather take someone elk hunting with a .243 that they can really shoot vs a 300 whiz bang that they hate.
A 7-08 with 140 grain mono metals will kill any elk on the planet. Would be great to start her out with youth loads in that rifle first.
You'll get a lot of other opinions but if she waits for a good shot and makes a good shot it won't matter what cartridge she is shooting. People get in real trouble if they can't shoot accurately and/or think that any elk sighting is a shooting opportunity. The right shot has to present itself otherwise you'll be tracking.

thanks guys.

snellstrom that makes sense. i have a t/c dimension that i can shorten and let her practice with a .22-250 barrel. that won't beat her up too bad.

i was thinking the 7mm08 with barnes bullets or similar wouldnt kick too bad. but since recoil is so subjective its tough for me to gauge for someone else.

The Ruger Americans are extremely accurate for the money, and very inexpensive. Combined with that meopta Doug has on specials t camera land, she'll be well outfitted for under $750.

The 308/7-08 is a good notion. I'd also toss in a 25.06 as a good option. Shooting hand loads, it could have pretty reasonable recoil.

My wife and daughter (13 yo) are both pretty small. I got a Ruger Hawkeye chambered in .338 Federal and had the stock cut to 11.5" LOP. They both shoot it well and have used factory-loaded 185 grain soft points to kill elk, a decent six-point bull for the wife and a fat cow for the kid. Of course, my daughter's lighter rifle is a near identical Hawkeye in .243, so she can practice a lot with it before breaking out the .338 Fed. My son used a Marlin X7Y (youth) in .308 with 150 grain soft points for his cow elk.

http://forums.accuratereloadin...3411043/m/3521050612

I like the .308. Yes, it's boring, but if you handload you can work up light loads with 125/130 grain bullets for practice and for deer and antelope, then work up to stiffer loads with stouter bullets for elk. I'll be switching my boy's .308 over to 130 grain Barnes TSXs for his next hunt.

Winchester M70 Featherwieght Compact--12 in LOP 7-mm-08 or 308

Find a cheap GOOD headspace!.303, or 7/08, .308 Etc would be good too. THEN work with her to find a load she can handle and shoot plenty to practice with. Remember, heavier bullets recoil more.

I started my first wife off at 18 with a 303 after my '06 was too much for her to handle. Worked up a load and she did well with it. First shot was a one shot kill on a buck. The next season we laid across the old tracks and cable going up the Manitou Incline and she shot 3 deer with 3 shots. 1965!!

Then later she got to playing games with the wrong guy and he came in and started beating on her. She blew his knee cap apart. Judge told the cop: "give the lady back her rifle, ammo and empty shell, self defense, case dismissed". I talked to the doc later he and told me: "that boy will never walk on that knee again". GI from Ft. Carson at the time. Jealousy will destroy you!! That's a fact of life.

Anyway, there's my ideas. Main thing is make sure the stock fits her right and has a good pad. IF it still kicks too much put some mercury in it and reduce the powder charge. Just make sure it still has enough velocity to do the job right. Maybe also get her a PAST shoulder pad, especially for practice and make sure she does a lot of that!!

George

Properly proportioned stock , .25-06/.270/.7mm-08/.308 or even a .30-06. Right shaped stock/sized rifle and the right bullet and she should do fine.

Go with a combination SHE is comfortable shooting accurately and it should work just fine.

Fit is the most important

Secondly would be a top of the line crystal clear optic with overly generous eye relief

Without these two things the cartridge is a moot point

My wifes 7-08 Ruger American Compact

Nearly 2" shorter LOP topped of with a V3Leupold 2.5/8

If it fits she will shoot any rifle better

7-08 Bull:



308 Bull:



I'm not exactly sure why women and children are relegated to smaller rounds. As a 54 year old man I'm perfectly at home with them, and beyond 300 yards as well...

My friend's wife uses a Kimber Montana in 7mm-08 on sambar, hogs and red deer in Australia. She's also taken tahr and chamois with that rifle.

Sambar are about 100 pounds lighter than a Rocky Mountain elk. Bulls are in the 650 pound range.

She's also killed a mountain of kangaroos with it.

What about a lightweight AR10 carbine in .308 or 7mm-08? They are easy to shoot. The auto-loading action absorbs a lot of recoil. With a collapsible stock she can adjust it to fit. Use 10-round magazines to get under Colorado's 15-round limit. You can find this sort of thing for well under $1000.

The basic Armalite AR-10B carbine is going for about $850, the DPMS for about $780. There are other brands at various prices.

243 Winchester with a 100 grain premium bullet, in any rifle that suits her.

IMHO a .243 is a little light for elk, especially for someone that may not have a lot of hunting experience. Even jumping to a .26 caliber and a 130/140 gr bullet would be much more effective. The 7mm-08 is likely ideal with a 140-160 grain bullet. That will do a great job for her. Bruce

I like 7-08 or 7x57, Huge section of bullets and nice to shoot with medium load.
Saeed is right about the 243 with premium bullets. But, it is a tad on the light side. Brian

Don't know about other states but, Colorado
requires at least .25 cal for elk. That's the law here.

George

My wife shoots a Savage Axis in 7mm-08 with 140 grain accubonds. She went with the axis purely because it was pink Camo Wasnt hard to find a load that shot around 1". I put a Leupold vx2 3x9 and called it good. My 13 year old will likely kill her first elk with it this year.

My daughter shoots a Ruger compact .243 stainless laminate. Great deer rifle but I would prefer it in 7-08 or .308 for elk

quote:

Originally posted by Saeed:
243 Winchester with a 100 grain premium bullet, in any rifle that suits her.

My wife shoots any thing I hand her. My daughter shoots a ruger MKII in 30-06 my DIL who is 5'3 shoots a ruger MKII compact in 7mm-08

I would go with any of the 6.5s on up in a rifle that fits her.

Sorry about this George, but I had to check because I know at least one guy that used a .243 in Colorado. I started hunting Elk in Colorado in 1992 and the caliber restrictions have not changed and yes the regulations I posted below are directly from the PDF version of the 2016 Colorado Hunting Brochure.

Also Grenadier, Please notice item C in the Regulations.

quote:

Don't know about other states but, Colorado requires at least .25 cal for elk. That's the law here.

1. CENTERFIRE RIFLES

a. Must be minimum of .24 caliber (6 mm).

b. Must have a minimum 16-inch barrel and be at least 26 inches long.

c. If semiautomatic, a maximum of six rounds are allowed in the magazine and chamber combined.

d. Must use expanding bullets that weigh minimum 70 grains for deer,
pronghorn and bear, 85 grains for elk and moose, and have an impact
energy (at 100 yards) of 1,000-ft.-pounds as rated by manufacturer.

e. It is illegal to hunt game birds, small-game mammals or furbearers with a
centerfire rifle larger than .23 caliber during regular rifle deer and elk seasons
west of I-25, without an unfilled deer or elk license for the season. A
small-game, furbearer or unfilled big-game license is required.

That's good info, Crazy. I was referring to the statewide Colorado basic magazine restriction not a hunting restriction. Five round AR-10 magazines are made for such hunting restrictions.

I've owned a couple of .243 rifles. For me, the .243 did not to prove to be the wonderful deer slayer some people praise so highly. I decided to never use a .243 on deer again. I would never choose to use a .243 on elk.

I may be an idiot according to some on here, but I never go hunting outside of Texas without familiarizing myself with the game laws of the state I will be hunting in.

I have seen, talked to and read about too many Non-Residents and even Residents of states, shall we say develop their OWN interpretation of Game Laws.

That never seems to work out quite as planned.

I agree re the Browning Micro Medallion. I sold one to a friend for his first hunting rifle. he loved it and I was impressed with the quality. The 7-08 would be a good caliber choice, as would a 6.5 if available.

Most all of the previous comments are sound. Fit, good optics, Barnes TSX bullets., etc. Watch for good cheek weld. A lace-on or glue-on pad may be needed to get proper eye alignment. A modest sized (less than 40mm) scope and low mounts. HAVE FUN!

quote:

I've owned a couple of .243 rifles. For me, the .243 did not to prove to be the wonderful deer slayer some people praise so highly. I decided to never use a .243 on deer again. I would never choose to use a .243 on elk.

I developed a bad attitude toward the .243 back in the early 70's because some folks I hunted with used them for hunting white tails in this part of Texas, but instead of trying to use whatever quality bullets that were available at the time they used the cheaper Varmint bullets and those things wounded/wasted more meat, without clean/quick kills and it prejudiced me against the caliber.

With bullet quality what it is today, it is a good caliber and I openly recommend it for white tail, I don't think I would recommend it for elk, but ifg a person is capable and confident with it and knows how to accurately place their shots, it will work.

I would just prefer something with a little more diameter and bullet weight.

You might consider a Remington Model 7 as well. The composite stocked model is pretty light. My 10yr old son has one in 260 Rem. He is all of 60 pounds and handles it just fine.

thank you folks for the replies.

i was not even thinking about stock fit, even though all of my rifles have cheek pads adjusted to fit me perfectly

i'll have them go to cabelas and check out how several rifles feel to her. seems like the 7-08 may be a good fit cartridge wise. i can customize some loads for her, and remington makes the managed recoil loads for practice it looks like.

6.5X55,260 Rem.,6.5 Creedmoor.I would get her a 260 Rem in a model 7.

My choice for my grandaughter is a .270 WSM. All my grandsons have shot them with great success. 130 grain bullet at 3450 fps, 160 grain bullet at 2950 fps ideal for all deer sized game and does very well on Elk. Many great bullets to choose from. Good shooting.

As a huge fan of the 7-08, I can wholeheartedly recommend it. If you decide to go that route, I have some proven reduced recoil loads I'll share. A 140g accubond or partition will smoke any elk.

I would suggest a 6.5 of some denomination and use TSX bullets. A lot of game in Europe has been shot with the 6.5x55.

quote:

Originally posted by JGRaider:
As a huge fan of the 7-08, I can wholeheartedly recommend it. If you decide to go that route, I have some proven reduced recoil loads I'll share. A 140g accubond or partition will smoke any elk.

Yup, IMO that's the ideal kids, woman's, non-he-man, all-around BG load.

quote:

Originally posted by cooperjd:
thank you folks for the replies.

i was not even thinking about stock fit, even though all of my rifles have cheek pads adjusted to fit me perfectly

i'll have them go to cabelas and check out how several rifles feel to her. seems like the 7-08 may be a good fit cartridge wise. i can customize some loads for her, and remington makes the managed recoil loads for practice it looks like.

Just remember if you have them go to Cabelas or any other gun store tell them "Do not listen to the freakin idiot at the store"
Just go see how a bunch of different rifles feel or fit. Too many times people think that because some bozo works at a gun store they know something about guns and it usually is the furthest thing from the truth.
If you were going to build a new house would the guy at Homo Depot be the guy you listen to or a real contractor that builds shit for most of his life!!!

Snell,

If I want to know.....I'll just as beeman

He knows everything

Here is a Marlin 7MM08 for sale right here.These rifles have great triggers and shoot very good.
http://forums.accuratereloadin...1078981/m/8761006122

quote:

Originally posted by Brad:
7-08 Bull:



308 Bull:



I'm not exactly sure why women and children are relegated to smaller rounds. As a 54 year old man I'm perfectly at home with them, and beyond 300 yards as well...

A couple very nice bulls you have there, curious as to what bullet you were using in the 7mm-08.

243
25-06
7mm08
270
Low recoil, proven elk killers.
Maybe also consider availability of reloading components.
Allows for plenty of low cost practice...

Ya ravenr, I forgot about the 25-06. ( I have one!)
Excellent cartridge. Coyotes to elk. Brian