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California wildlife official in hot water over mountain lion hunt/UPDATE
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http://www.mercurynews.com/science/ci_19992359


California wildlife official in hot water over mountain lion hunt
By Paul Rogers


progers@mercurynews.commercurynews.com

Posted: 02/17/2012 08:24:07 PM PST
February 18, 2012 6:29 AM GMT Updated: 02/17/2012 10:29:13 PM PST


One of California's top wildlife officials found himself in the political line of fire Friday, after a photo surfaced showing him holding a dead mountain lion he killed in what appeared to be a recent big game hunt.

Daniel W. Richards, president of the California Fish and Game Commission, shot the lion in Northern Idaho. The photo was posted on the website of Western Outdoor News, a hunting and fishing publication.

Mountain lion hunting has been illegal in California since 1990, when voters passed Proposition 117.

Within hours of the photo appearing, callers deluged the state Fish and Game Commission office, and the Humane Society of the United States urged Richards to step down.

"It's not illegal. But he's thumbed his nose at the people of California," said Wayne Pacelle, president and CEO of the Humane Society. "He's supposed to be representing the interests of all California citizens. It seems like such a tone-deaf action. What part of 'no' doesn't he understand?"

Richards did not respond to requests for an interview.

But on the Western Outdoor News website, Richards, 59, is quoted as saying that he shot the lion with a Winchester Centennial .45 carbine on Flying B Ranch. The 5,000-acre property in Northern Idaho charges $6,800 per person for a 7-day lion hunt.

"I'm glad it's legal in Idaho," said Richards, who is a life member of the National Rifle Association.

A San Bernardino County Republican appointed
to the five-member commission by former Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger in 2008, Richards has been its most outspoken advocate for expanding hunting, often clashing with environmental and animal welfare groups.

As president, Richards can set the commission's agenda on a range of issues including endangered species protections, ocean fishing rules and all types of hunting regulations from rabbits to black bears. If he were to bring the dead mountain lion back to California from Idaho, he would be in violation of state law.

Proposition 117 banned the possession of mountain lion parts or trophies killed after 1990. Last year, Gov. Jerry Brown signed a bill creating a narrow exemption for museums to display lions killed under permits from the state Fish and Game Department.

The governor cannot remove any member of the Fish and Game Commission. However, the state Legislature can, with a simple majority vote.

Assemblyman Jared Huffman, D-San Rafael, chairman of the Assembly Water, Parks and Wildlife Committee, said Friday he is considering introducing a resolution in the Legislature to remove Richards.

"He's thumbing his nose at California law," Huffman said. "He's mocking it. Frankly, I think he should face the music and step down. He's done something that's a disgrace to his position and to responsible hunters in California."

Environmental and animal welfare groups that wrote and passed the ballot measure in 1990 banning lion hunting argued that the practice is cruel and unnecessary, because unlike with deer, turkeys and other game, hunters do not eat lions. And they argued it upsets the balance of predators and prey. Hunting groups attempted to overturn the measure in 1996, but voters again chose to keep lion hunting illegal.

Richards' term expires next January. He was voted president earlier this month in an odd 2-0 vote in which two commissioners who disagree with his views, Mike Sutton and Jack Baylis, abstained, while the former president, Jim Kellogg, whose term as president expired, supported him.

One commissioner, Richard Rogers, was absent due to an Achilles tendon injury. Rogers said Friday he is likely to support another vote to choose a new president at a commission meeting in the next month or two. If Richards is removed, the current vice president, Michael Sutton, a biologist who works for the Monterey Bay Aquarium, would become president.

Meanwhile, Richards is facing more political fallout.

In 2010, his former business partner was indicted, along with three other men, on charges of bribery, conflict of interest, tax fraud, tax evasion, perjury and forgery. San Bernardino County prosecutors said the indicted men worked to corrupt public officials in connection with a $102 million settlement in a land development deal.

Contact Paul Rogers at 408-920-5045.


Kathi

kathi@wildtravel.net
708-425-3552

"The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only one page."
 
Posts: 9528 | Location: Chicago | Registered: 23 July 2003Reply With Quote
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he needs to tell all of them to pound sand.....


Birmingham, Al
 
Posts: 834 | Registered: 18 December 2006Reply With Quote
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Shee-it.. I,ve had barbecued lynx. Quite tasty.
Terrible thing for a guy to go off, and, ..not break the law. No wonder they,re outraged.
Would imagine mountain lion and lynx would taste quite similar..
 
Posts: 806 | Location: Ketchikan, Alaska | Registered: 24 April 2011Reply With Quote
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WTF now if you work for the state you can not travel and enjoy other states.

Because Wis has a stuiped 55mph limit as a Wis. state trooper when I traveled to MT I shouldn't travel 75 the legal speed limit.

But that antis for they do not make any sense.
 
Posts: 19715 | Location: wis | Registered: 21 April 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by DTala:
he needs to tell all of them to pound sand.....


AMEN!!! tu2


Graybird

"Make no mistake, it's not revenge he's after ... it's the reckoning."
 
Posts: 3722 | Location: Okie in Falcon, CO | Registered: 01 July 2004Reply With Quote
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What part of "legal" do they not understand. We apply the "3 S" rule to lions..Shoot, Shovel and Shhhh.


Have gun- Will travel
The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark
 
Posts: 3831 | Location: Cave Creek, AZ | Registered: 09 August 2001Reply With Quote
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I have had several people in Idaho ask me to bring them any mountain lion meat that I did not want for myself.

They all tell me it is very good eating.

Also one lady always wants all the bear fat off of any black bear I kill.
I keep the black bear meat for my self. It is also good to eat.


DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY
 
Posts: 16134 | Location: Texas | Registered: 06 April 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by p dog shooter:
WTF now if you work for the state you can not travel and enjoy other states.

Because Wis has a stuiped 55mph limit as a Wis. state trooper when I traveled to MT I shouldn't travel 75 the legal speed limit.

But that antis for they do not make any sense.


Dead right! Then again he asks for this kind of abuse working for who he does where he does.
 
Posts: 9632 | Location: Dillingham Alaska | Registered: 10 April 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott King:
he asks for this kind of abuse working for who he does where he does.


Scott
I don't disagree with you, and he should have seen this coming with the picture in a magazine and all....

But I think it is important to remember that he is fighting the good fight. He is in a very powerful position and is working for hunting rights in a very hostile environment. We need more guys like him with the drive and determination to put up with all the BS and fight for our rights.

It sounds like he will be out of his job next year if not sooner. And the guy who will replace him is not nearly as hunter friendly.


Jason

"You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core."
_______________________

Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt.

Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry
Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure.

-Jason Brown
 
Posts: 6842 | Location: Nome, Alaska(formerly SW Wyoming) | Registered: 22 December 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Kathi:

"It's not illegal. But he's thumbed his nose at the people of California," said Wayne Pacelle, president and CEO of the Humane Society.


Yes he is....and I love it! tu2
 
Posts: 2472 | Registered: 06 July 2008Reply With Quote
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quote:
If he were to bring the dead mountain lion back to California from Idaho, he would be in violation of state law.

Proposition 117 banned the possession of mountain lion parts or trophies killed after 1990.


Communists.


~Ann





 
Posts: 19623 | Location: The LOST Nation | Registered: 27 March 2001Reply With Quote
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What Planet are these people from???
 
Posts: 4372 | Location: NE Wisconsin | Registered: 31 March 2007Reply With Quote
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I ate some of the mountain lion, bobcats, and the African lion I've shot. The meat from all three of these cat species was white and had a similar taste. It was different from any other meat we eat, but it was good.

Bill Quimby
 
Posts: 2633 | Location: tucson and greer arizona | Registered: 02 February 2006Reply With Quote
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this article pissed me off so much! I just sent this letter in, although they never print my letters:

The article vilifying Fish & Game President Daniel Richards for legally hunting mountain lion in Idaho made me realize just how crazy things have become in our state. Fisherman and hunters of big game in California are happy the President of the Department of Fish & Game actually is a hunter. Having Wayne Pacelle and the anti-hunting 'Humane Society of the U.S.' tell us about thumbing your nose is rich indeed. Great source for this story. And adding that Richards 'former business partner' was indicted two years ago completes this hit piece. Great journalism. Pacelle and his like have a goal to end fishing and hunting in our state and no one should pretend the outrage is just in response to Richards hunting legally in Idaho.

Mountain lions are prolific in our state. I get weekly emergency alerts of sightings in my La Honda neighborhood. California game laws unfortunately are not based on sound biology and conservation but on the same absurd method we use to solve many issues today, the initiative process.
 
Posts: 161 | Location: La Honda, California | Registered: 22 August 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Aspen Hill: Communists.


Or Eco-Nazis?
 
Posts: 8211 | Location: Germany | Registered: 22 August 2002Reply With Quote
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MTN Lion hunting in CA is illegal. But MTN Lion hunting in ID isn't. So, I fail to see what the issue is with these IDIOTS. The guy may be from CA, but the hunt did not take place there. So it simply isn't relevant.

I'm pretty sure it isn't legal to shoot elephant in CA. But that doesn't mean it is illegal everywhere in the world. Same concept. Besides, the MTN Lion is a long, long ways from being endangered in CA. They kill hundreds of them each year that are stock killers. But the Game Dept does the trigger work instead of paying sportsman. But that doesn't change the fact the cougar is just as dead.

This guy needs to tell the bunny huggers in the Land of the Looney to go straight to hell. But, knowing CA, this will probably get him fired.
 
Posts: 2940 | Location: Colorado by birth, Navy by choice. | Registered: 26 September 2010Reply With Quote
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The comments are scary. These people lack basic comprehension and logic skills.

Great cat though!


-----------------------------------------
"I went to the woods because I wished to live deliberately, to front only the essential facts of life, and see if I could not learn what it had to teach, and not, when I came to die, discover that I had not lived. -Henry David Thoreau, Walden
 
Posts: 898 | Location: Tanzania | Registered: 07 December 2007Reply With Quote
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Good letter Sean.


"There are worse memorials to a life well-lived than a pair of elephant tusks." Robert Ruark
 
Posts: 4781 | Location: Story, WY / San Carlos, Sonora, MX | Registered: 29 May 2002Reply With Quote
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All should take heed. This is what happens when you have 1 political party controlling the entire legislature in a state. Did I happen to mention that they all have "D" behind their names?
The real crying shame is that there are a lot of good sane people here but we are outvoted by the loonies in SF and LA.


Have gun- Will travel
The value of a trophy is computed directly in terms of personal investment in its acquisition. Robert Ruark
 
Posts: 3831 | Location: Cave Creek, AZ | Registered: 09 August 2001Reply With Quote
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I tried another letter as if you bring gays into it maybe they'll print it Smiler

---------------

Going to Wayne Pacelle for a quote on the mountain lion hunting issue is like going to the Mormon Church for one on the gay marriage issue. They each reflect the will of the people only inasmuch as they were decided by the same method; the initiative process. I applaud President Richard's for exercising his right to legally hunt anywhere in the world and especially in states that practice scientific wildlife management as opposed to relying on the whims of the general population.

Sean Browne

PO Box 246
La Honda, CA
94020
 
Posts: 161 | Location: La Honda, California | Registered: 22 August 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Sean Browne:
this article pissed me off so much! I just sent this letter in, although they never print my letters:

The article vilifying Fish & Game President Daniel Richards for legally hunting mountain lion in Idaho made me realize just how crazy things have become in our state. Fisherman and hunters of big game in California are happy the President of the Department of Fish & Game actually is a hunter. Having Wayne Pacelle and the anti-hunting 'Humane Society of the U.S.' tell us about thumbing your nose is rich indeed. Great source for this story. And adding that Richards 'former business partner' was indicted two years ago completes this hit piece. Great journalism. Pacelle and his like have a goal to end fishing and hunting in our state and no one should pretend the outrage is just in response to Richards hunting legally in Idaho.

Mountain lions are prolific in our state. I get weekly emergency alerts of sightings in my La Honda neighborhood. California game laws unfortunately are not based on sound biology and conservation but on the same absurd method we use to solve many issues today, the initiative process.


I agree totally. I have often said that voter initiatives are the biggest threat to hunting we have.

I am stunned no one has tried to overturn this based on constitutional law. The possession of lion mounts????

Come on.


Don't Ever Book a Hunt with Jeff Blair
http://forums.accuratereloadin...821061151#2821061151

 
Posts: 7580 | Location: Arizona and off grid in CO | Registered: 28 July 2004Reply With Quote
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Last time I was in Idaho elk hunting I had some kitty mc nuggets and they were outstanding! To me, it actually tasted like chicken - perhaps the Canadian Mist numbed my taste buds, but it was still very good. tu2


****************
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Posts: 3316 | Location: USA | Registered: 15 November 2001Reply With Quote
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http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_20041625


Majority of California Assembly members call for resignation of wildlife official who killed mountain lion
By Paul Rogers


progers@mercurynews.commercurynews.com

Posted: 02/24/2012 09:09:12 PM PST
February 25, 2012 3:25 PM GMT Updated: 02/25/2012 07:25:12 AM PST



California wildlife official in hot water over mountain lion huntThe days may be numbered for a top California wildlife official who sparked a controversy by shooting and killing a mountain lion in Idaho.

Escalating a battle between hunters and animal welfare groups -- a conflict that could result in major changes to California's endangered species and hunting policies -- 40 Democratic state Assembly members Friday sent a letter to Dan Richards, president of the California Fish and Game Commission, demanding that he resign.

The firestorm began after a hunting newspaper recently published a photo of Richards, a Republican from San Bernardino and outspoken trophy hunter, holding a dead mountain lion he shot at the Flying B Ranch in northern Idaho earlier this year.

Mountain lion hunting in California was first banned by Gov. Ronald Reagan in 1972 in five-year increments. It was outlawed permanently when California voters passed Proposition 117 in 1990.

In Idaho, however, hunting mountain lions is legal.

Hunting groups have rallied to Richards' defense. But critics, led by the Humane Society of the United States, argue that Richards showed bad judgment and mocked the will of California voters.

"Your actions raise serious questions about whether you respect the laws of the people of California and whether you are fit to adequately enforce those laws," the letter from the Assembly Democrats said.

It closed with an ominous tone: "We hope that you decide to put the people of California and
their collective values first and that this unfortunate incident does not continue to distract the work of the Legislature."

Under state law, any fish and game commissioner can be removed by a simple majority vote in both houses of the state Legislature.

With 40 of the 80 members of the Assembly calling for Richards to resign, his future on the commission appears to be in serious jeopardy. A similar letter is now circulating in the state Senate, where Democrats hold 25 of the 40 seats.

Richards did not return calls seeking comment.

Assemblyman Ben Hueso, D-San Diego, wrote the Assembly letter and organized the signature gathering. His staff said that more than 40 members would have signed, but Hueso decided to stop at 40. There are 52 Democrats in the 80-member Assembly.

"I have received an outpouring of support from my constituents to remove the commissioner from his position," Hueso said. "This incident has ignited such an uproar in communities across the state, I am concerned that if Commissioner Richards were to remain on the commission, it would compromise the reputation and ability of the California Fish and Game Commission to continue its good work in the future."

Hueso's staff said if Richards does not resign, the assemblyman will likely introduce a resolution to force his removal.

The controversy has prompted an outpouring of support for Richards from hunting and fishing groups, many of which see Richards as the most reliable vote for their issues.

"If he would have shot that mountain lion in California, he would have been thumbing his nose at the voters of California," said Bill Gaines, president of the California Outdoor Heritage Alliance, a hunting advocacy group. "We would have called for his resignation.

"But for him to do it legally in another state, a state that bases their mountain lion management on science -- and not emotions like we have here in California -- and to be condemned for it, we just flat-out disagree with that."

Some hunting and fishing groups are urging their members to turn out en masse at the next Fish and Game Commission meeting, which will be held March 7 in Riverside.

The stakes are high. The five-member commission not only decides which species to list as endangered, it also sets policies on everything from hunting to California's new system of "marine protected areas," which ban fishing in areas off the coast.

If Richards, who was appointed to the five-member commission by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, resigns or is removed from the panel, his replacement would be named by Democratic Gov. Jerry Brown. And that's a move that for the first time could give the commission a majority of members who tend to support the priorities of environmental groups. Currently, the commission is split 2-2, with Commissioner Richard Rogers often casting the swing vote.

Hanging in the balance in the next year or two: issues such as whether to expand the number of black bears that can be killed every year by California hunters, whether to ban lead shot or whether to offer state endangered-species protections to wolves.

If Richards leaves, the vice president of the commission, Mike Sutton, would become president. Sutton is a former national park ranger and biologist who works at the Monterey Bay Aquarium.

"There's a lot at stake," said Jennifer Fearing, state director of the Humane Society of the United States.

Gaines, the hunting advocate, agreed.

"We're very well aware that this is a key seat, as are the animal rights groups," he said. "There's only five votes, so if you get three, you win."

Paul Rogers covers resources and environmental issues. Contact him at 408-920-5045.


Kathi

kathi@wildtravel.net
708-425-3552

"The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only one page."
 
Posts: 9528 | Location: Chicago | Registered: 23 July 2003Reply With Quote
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Not meaning to be rude or crass, but this is a shining example of why hunters from other states are not all that eager to expend time, effort or $$$$ to help California hunters defend their ability to hunt. Sorry for you folks luck, but to have a person persecuted for engaging in a LEGAL activity in another state, because of his position, just makes me stop an wonder, when California will make it illegal for its citizens to go out of state and hunt anything.

I feel sorry for California hunters, because not only do they have anti-hunters to deal with, but they have to deal with a totally screwed up system, that is trying to dictate private citizens activities conducted outside their state boundaries.


Even the rocks don't last forever.



 
Posts: 31014 | Location: Olney, Texas | Registered: 27 March 2006Reply With Quote
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I expect that hunting of any sort will be illegal in Califoricate within 5 years.

After the bills effective date it will also be illegal to bring any animal or parts thereof into the state hunted legally in any other state or country.

It may be illegal to even transport via common carrier any animal parts from a port of entry from overseas through Calif to another state or from state to state through Ca.

Now this does assume that the state government of Calif**yourself is actually in business in 5 years, increasingly unlikely.
 
Posts: 763 | Location: Montana | Registered: 28 November 2004Reply With Quote
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Yeah, Kommifornia voters (not I or my friends) voted in favor of Prop. 117. 99.99999% of these yahoos haven't got a clue to what a mountain lion is or looks like. They don't have a clue as to habits, prey animals, or population dynamics. The bunny huggers have never lost livestock or come in direct contat with one of the big cats.

But then again, these are the same twits that keep electing the likes of Maxine Waters, Barbara Boxer, Nancy Pelosi, and Feinstein. This is not to mention "Moonbeams" second term after a really bad one earlier. I'm looking for a way out but it's difficult once you have property or a business.


JOE MACK aka The .41FAN

HAVE MORE FUN AND GET THE JOB DONE WITH A .41

I am the punishment of God…
If you had not committed great sins,
God would not have sent a punishment like me upon you. (GENGHIS KHAN)



 
Posts: 403 | Location: PRK | Registered: 20 April 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by HunterMontana:
I expect that hunting of any sort will be illegal in Califoricate within 5 years.


Our state is pretty screwy(booting a F&W official, when he has not done anything illegal, is proof enough), but hunting will be illegal in 5 years....
Roll Eyes

More than a few of us would be willing to take you up on a bet.


Jason

"You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core."
_______________________

Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt.

Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry
Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure.

-Jason Brown
 
Posts: 6842 | Location: Nome, Alaska(formerly SW Wyoming) | Registered: 22 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Bet if gay marriage is still illegal in CA and this guy went out of state to get married, these same people wouldn't call it "thumbing his nose at the wishes of the people of CA".

The problem, big part of it anyway, is that these types of responses get positive coverage in the media instead of the ridicule it deserves. Its all about playing to the camera and putting it to the other party.


Howard
Moses Lake, Washington USA
hwhomes@outlook.com
 
Posts: 2341 | Location: Moses Lake WA | Registered: 17 October 2000Reply With Quote
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Howard

You are dead-on on both points.



And to all you guys in the "red states" who are laughing their asses off at us "nuts" in California, let me ask you: How long will it be until they start limiting your hunting of deer and elk in order to provide food for the growing grisly and wolf populations???

We are all in the same boat.


Jason

"You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core."
_______________________

Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt.

Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry
Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure.

-Jason Brown
 
Posts: 6842 | Location: Nome, Alaska(formerly SW Wyoming) | Registered: 22 December 2003Reply With Quote
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quote:
And to all you guys in the "red states" who are laughing their asses off at us "nuts" in California,


Hold your ass up one damn second. your alway ready to run your damn mouth off without thinking.

I don't think any of us in the God damn Red States or Blue States are laughing at you poor bastards in California, i know I ain't, I pity you folks and the hand you have been dealt, but there is not one damn thing any of us that do not live in California can do to change the damn situation.

Sorry About Your Damn Luck, and you are correct with the exception that your end of the damn boat is the one that is gonna sink first.

The rest of us CANNOT change that. I do not enjoy in any way the plight you folk are in, but there is not one thing me or anyone else can do to change it.


Even the rocks don't last forever.



 
Posts: 31014 | Location: Olney, Texas | Registered: 27 March 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
quote:
And to all you guys in the "red states" who are laughing their asses off at us "nuts" in California,


Hold your ass up one damn second. your alway ready to run your damn mouth off without thinking.

I don't think any of us in the God damn Red States or Blue States are laughing at you poor bastards in California, i know I ain't, I pity you folks and the hand you have been dealt, but there is not one damn thing any of us that do not live in California can do to change the damn situation.

Sorry About Your Damn Luck, and you are correct with the exception that your end of the damn boat is the one that is gonna sink first.

The rest of us CANNOT change that. I do not enjoy in any way the plight you folk are in, but there is not one thing me or anyone else can do to change it.


Agreed Crazy. I for one get tired of the guys in the Land of the Looney always saying "Help us or you're next" when they haven't done a damn thing to help themselves.

How many of them have written to the editors of their local papers bringing this shit out in the open? How many of them called into the talk radio stations and pitched a bitch on the air? How many of them immediately drafted an angry letter to their elected official or even stopped by their office to object in person?

Bottom line, California is royally fucked from within. I can't cast a vote there or even try to petition for any changes since I'm not a resident of the Land of Fruit, Flakes and Nuts. As long as they keep electing idiots like Maxine Waters, Diane Fienstein, Barbara Boxer, Jerry Brown and Nancy Pelosi, they get no sympathy from me.
 
Posts: 2940 | Location: Colorado by birth, Navy by choice. | Registered: 26 September 2010Reply With Quote
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Just to be fair Flags the guys and gals in California that enjoy hunting, have worked at trying to get things corrected.

Look at it this way, in Colorado, all the decisions are pretty well made by the folks along the Front Range. Same thing is true except multiplied many times over in California.

I really do heel bad for the hunters out there, but there is not one thing that can be done to change how things are.


Even the rocks don't last forever.



 
Posts: 31014 | Location: Olney, Texas | Registered: 27 March 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Just to be fair Flags the guys and gals in California that enjoy hunting, have worked at trying to get things corrected.

Look at it this way, in Colorado, all the decisions are pretty well made by the folks along the Front Range. Same thing is true except multiplied many times over in California.

I really do heel bad for the hunters out there, but there is not one thing that can be done to change how things are.


I understand all that Crazy. I was stuck in that shithole for 3 full years. I saw how LA, Frisco and San Diego over rode the entire state. And I know the hunters try, but that doesn't change the fact that neither you nor I can help them. Every hunter and fisherman in that state needs to band together and take on the fools head on. Until then, they will lose.

This is an example of a "civil war" and it must be fought from within. There is nothing outsiders can do except shake our heads, thank God we don't live there and watch in total amazement.
 
Posts: 2940 | Location: Colorado by birth, Navy by choice. | Registered: 26 September 2010Reply With Quote
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quote:
This is an example of a "civil war" and it must be fought from within. There is nothing outsiders can do except shake our heads, thank God we don't live there and watch in total amazement.


And that is what is sad, and I am afraid it will eventually catch up to all of us.

Hopefully, I will not live long enough to see that happen.


Even the rocks don't last forever.



 
Posts: 31014 | Location: Olney, Texas | Registered: 27 March 2006Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
I don't think any of us in the God damn Red States or Blue States are laughing at you poor bastards in California, i know I ain't, I pity you folks and the hand you have been dealt, but there is not one damn thing any of us that do not live in California can do to change the damn situation.


quote:
Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
I really do heel bad for the hunters out there, but there is not one thing that can be done to change how things are.


Crazyhorse
I should have made it clear that I was NOT referring to All the hunters in the red states, just the ones who are enjoying watching us burn. It is clear that you are one of the guys who sees our plight for what it is, and I thank you for that.

No offense to intended towards Flags, but I think his first post is a perfect example of the irrational knee-jerk reaction I see from most of the guys outside of CA. His second post(after having a bit of time to think about it) he admits that the hunters here in CA are fighting for their rights.

But then he still blames us hunters for the wackos we have in office????? Does he think that California hunters voted for Feinstein, Boxer and Jerry Brown????

quote:
Originally posted by Flags:
I for one get tired of the guys in the Land of the Looney always saying "Help us or you're next" when they haven't done a damn thing to help themselves.

How many of them have written to the editors of their local papers bringing this shit out in the open? How many of them called into the talk radio stations and pitched a bitch on the air? How many of them immediately drafted an angry letter to their elected official or even stopped by their office to object in person?

Bottom line, California is royally fucked from within. I can't cast a vote there or even try to petition for any changes since I'm not a resident of the Land of Fruit, Flakes and Nuts. As long as they keep electing idiots like Maxine Waters, Diane Fienstein, Barbara Boxer, Jerry Brown and Nancy Pelosi, they get no sympathy from me.


quote:
Originally posted by Flags:
I was stuck in that shithole for 3 full years. I saw how LA, Frisco and San Diego over rode the entire state. And I know the hunters try, but that doesn't change the fact that neither you nor I can help them.


Jason

"You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core."
_______________________

Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt.

Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry
Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure.

-Jason Brown
 
Posts: 6842 | Location: Nome, Alaska(formerly SW Wyoming) | Registered: 22 December 2003Reply With Quote
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posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by JBrown:


Crazyhorse
I should have made it clear that I was NOT referring to All the hunters in the red states, just the ones who are enjoying watching us burn. It is clear that you are one of the guys who sees our plight for what it is, and I thank you for that.

No offense to intended towards Flags, but I think his first post is a perfect example of the irrational knee-jerk reaction I see from most of the guys outside of CA. His second post(after having a bit of time to think about it) he admits that the hunters here in CA are fighting for their rights.

But then he still blames us hunters for the wackos we have in office????? Does he think that California hunters voted for Feinstein, Boxer and Jerry Brown????


The analogy I thought of is the one regarding the frog in the pot of water being slowly heated up.

Sorry,I don't think its a matter of "fighting the good fight,". Ethinticity aside, you guys are frogs and powers beyond you are turning up the heat.

I think it really is simple, just leave. Go to court, get custody, get a job in a state not in nearly as bad a financial/ social shape as CA and that it, there you are. Who was it, Lot? Left Soddom and Gommorah? Joseph took the people into Egypt, Moses took 'em back out. The Okies moved out of the dustbowl. You California outdoorsmen can too.
 
Posts: 9632 | Location: Dillingham Alaska | Registered: 10 April 2006Reply With Quote
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Picture of JBrown
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quote:
Originally posted by Scott King:
I think it really is simple, just leave. Go to court, get custody, get a job in a state not in nearly as bad a financial/ social shape as CA and that it, there you are.


Scott
Great advice, but that is part of our problem in this state: good sportsmen and women leaving.

Ten years ago I would have never thought that I would still be here in 2012. I do have full custody of my daughter, but my ex has visitation rights, so I am stuck here for the next 15 or so years(unless my wife gives up her parental rights).

I will be right at retirement age when my daughter heads off to college. So I will stay and fight until then. After that there will be a dust cloud following me as I leave this state.


Jason

"You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core."
_______________________

Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt.

Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry
Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure.

-Jason Brown
 
Posts: 6842 | Location: Nome, Alaska(formerly SW Wyoming) | Registered: 22 December 2003Reply With Quote
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Picture of Crazyhorseconsulting
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Jason, I don't think any real outdoors person is enjoying seeing what is happening in California.

What is happening there, whether any of us want to really address the situation or not, is going to continue moving eastward.

Every year hunting and fishing license sales decrease a little. Every year the average age of hunters increases.

Every year the number of non-hunters increases.

California just happens to be where it is hitting the hardest. the only reason why things are not worse than they are in Texas, is due to private land owners rights. However, that in and of ittself causes its own set of problems becaue so many folks can not afford the lease fees and Public Land in Texas is in short supply.

Wish things were different for you folks in California, becaue I view it as a window to the future of hunting in many other states.


Even the rocks don't last forever.



 
Posts: 31014 | Location: Olney, Texas | Registered: 27 March 2006Reply With Quote
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No wonder that state is so f'ed up. They have massive financial and other issues in that state. it is unconscionable that they spend 10 seconds on something like this. Truly amazing.
 
Posts: 12126 | Location: Orlando, FL | Registered: 26 January 2006Reply With Quote
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http://www.mercurynews.com/sci...r.it&utm_medium=feed


Embattled California wildlife official who shot mountain lion refuses to resign
By Paul Rogers


progers@mercurynews.commercurynews.com

Posted: 02/29/2012 07:25:08 AM PST
February 29, 2012 3:25 PM GMT Updated: 02/29/2012 07:25:15 AM PST


The embattled president of California's Fish and Game Commission pushed back at his critics Tuesday, telling them he did nothing wrong by killing a mountain lion on a big game hunt in Idaho. And he vowed not to resign.

"While I respect our Fish and Game rules and regulations, my 100 percent legal activity outside of California, or anyone else's for that matter, is none of your business," Dan Richards wrote in a letter to state lawmakers calling for his ouster.

Richards also wrote that "contrary to so many erroneous reports," he didn't use a high-powered rifle and "we did dine on Mountain Lion for dinner" that night.

In recent days, 40 Democratic Assembly members and Lt. Gov. Gavin Newsom have sent letters asking Richards to resign. They've accused him of thumbing his nose at California voters who have banned mountain lion hunting twice at the ballot box, in 1990 and 1996.

If Richards, a Republican appointed to the commission by former Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger, doesn't quit he could be removed by the Legislature by a simple majority vote, which could tip the balance of the powerful commission away from hunting interests to environmental interests.

At the end of his letter to Assemblyman Ben Hueso, D-San Diego, who has organized the campaign against him, Richards wrote: "There is ZERO chance I would resign my position."

Hueso could not be reached for comment late Tuesday. But Jennifer Fearing, state director of the Humane Society of the United States, said the letter would only increase the likelihood that Richards will soon be removed by state lawmakers.

"We never said Richards' Idaho trophy kill was illegal," she said. "We said it showed poor judgment. And this letter is just another example of horrendously bad decision-making and why Richards no longer has the trust of Californians and the Legislature."

Meanwhile, Joseph Peterson, the guide who led Richards on the hunt in January at the 5,000-acre Flying B Ranch in northern Idaho, said Richards went to the ranch seeking to hunt pheasants. Peterson said that he asked Richards, whom he had not previously met, if he wanted to kill a mountain lion because the ranch was trying to stem a recent increase in the number of lions as a way to preserve deer and other big game popular with sport hunters there.

"He killed the cat as a favor to me, to help our predator management on the ranch," Peterson said, adding that he did not charge Richards the ranch's normal $6,800 fee for a lion hunt.

"The cat would have died if Dan was here or not," Peterson said.

Peterson said he tracked the lion for 15 hours, and Richards tracked it for about eight hours, through miles of hilly country in the snow. After the lion, a 3-year-old male, was driven up a tree by hunting dogs, Richards shot it, he said.

Richards sent a photo of himself holding the dead lion, which he left in Idaho to be taxidermied, to Western Outdoor News, a hunting newspaper. The paper published the photo, prompting an outcry from the Humane Society, Sierra Club and other groups.

Peterson said he thinks Richards is being treated unfairly. But he added that Richards seemed to know his actions would be controversial in California, where former Gov. Ronald Reagan first banned mountain lion hunting in 1972 in five-year increments. California voters then made the ban permanent with the passage of Proposition 117 in 1990.

"I didn't realize, although Dan may have, that it would cause that big of a fuss," Peterson said. "He knows the people in his state. He said he was going to have that photo in some publications down there. He mentioned it would cause some stir among the environmentalists. He knew it would cause some trouble."

Peterson said critics, who have bombarded his Facebook page with negative comments, misunderstand much of his ranch's operation.

The ranch kills only one to four lions a year on its property, he said. It also offers fly-fishing and other activities, along with hunts for birds, deer, wolves, bears and elk. And many of the people who hunt lions on the ranch actually consume them as they would venison, he said.

"We do eat them," he said. "It's like lean pork. It's fairly common in Idaho and western Montana. I have guests who ask me to send them cougar meat from all over the country."

Paul Rogers covers resources and environmental issues. Contact him at 408-920-5045.


Kathi

kathi@wildtravel.net
708-425-3552

"The world is a book, and those who do not travel read only one page."
 
Posts: 9528 | Location: Chicago | Registered: 23 July 2003Reply With Quote
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