The reason I hunt other states and Canada is to see for myself if any of them compare with the hunting in Texas. My conclussion is they don't.
There's nothing like hunting well managed ground under private ownership.

quote:

Originally posted by chuck375:
The free market (commercial meat hunting) is what led to the almost complete eradication of deer, elk and buffalo in the United States. I'm an avid hunter and have been for 40 plus years. The states have proven far better stewards over our big game species than the "free market" ever has.

Yes and no. I have seen the $ hunters destroy many a great hunting area through ignorance and greed. I have also seen quite a few manage a herd nicely.

The bad thing is that for guys like me, an elk hunt remains well out of reach. To many other priorites on the money, and the price for out of state hunts keep rising.

[quote]The reason I hunt other states and Canada is to see for myself if any of them compare with the hunting in Texas. My conclussion is they don't.quote]

That has been my experience also.

It is the main reason so many non-residents come to Texas to hunt.

quote:

If you were serious, there are lots of reasons. Our seasons are so long we can afford, time wise, to leave to hunt other places. We also have lots of split seasons. Also being in a more temperate climate our good hunting usually fires up after other state's seasons have closed. We can hunt the western states in Sept/Oct/Nov for antelope, mule deer, moose and elk then be home for deer, goose, duck, sandhill crane, turkey, nilgai, hog, javelina, dove, quail, etc.

Why do we have to hunt trophies??? When I have hunted off my beaten path I have been perfectly pleased to take doe/cow animals. I killed a cow elk with my bow and it is one of my best memories. Same holds true with my first nilgai, it was a cow and I was glad to take it. An axis deer doe was also a great hunt for me. I just love to hunt regardless of trophy class.

Do you just hunt trophies? What classification do you use to determine trophy size? Do you think all hunters in Texas are only hunting trophies?

Yes, my question was serious. Because when I have asked the Texans what brings them to Colorado or another state, most of them say that they can not afford to hunt back home because they either don't own hunting land or can not afford to pay the annual leases required.

But, it gets really tiring the see a lot of people in your state constantly voicing the opinion that they are from "the greatest state" in the nation while they are in your state. Nothing wrong with state pride, but you guys overdo it.

And I don't care if someone is hunting trophies or not. But I find it strange that someone from a state with the biggest deer herd in the country often has to travel outside that state to hunt deer and paays non-resident fees to take a doe. I know I wouldn't do that. If I was going out of state I'd be looking for something that isn't available back home. I sure would cross state lines for a doe. A big buck maybe, but not a doe.

All I know is that come fall, there will be tens of thousands of Texans crawling all over Colorado and the other states. Every one of them will be claiming how great Texas is all the while hunting another state. Bottom line, If Texas was so great, there would be fewer of them headed north every season. Obviously there is something lacking down there. Be it public hunting land or something else, something brings all of you north.

quote:

Yes, my question was serious. Because when I have asked the Texans what brings them to Colorado or another state, most of them say that they can not afford to hunt back home because they either don't own hunting land or can not afford to pay the annual leases required.

You are obviously talking to people who can't do math. I know no less than five ranchers who would let me come out and kill as many doe as I could clean for free. SUper combo hunting license I think is around seventy bucks. That's a lot of cheep meat right there. Compare that to an out of state Co license, gas, travel time and expenses, and you can see real quick what is cheeper. I have friends that are on deer leases for only $1000 dollars. I still bet that is cheaper than running all the way to Colorado. I know a lot of people that hunt in Colorado. None of them do it becasue they can't afford Texas.

quote:

Yes, my question was serious. Because when I have asked the Texans what brings them to Colorado or another state, most of them say that they can not afford to hunt back home because they either don't own hunting land or can not afford to pay the annual leases required.

But, it gets really tiring the see a lot of people in your state constantly voicing the opinion that they are from "the greatest state" in the nation while they are in your state. Nothing wrong with state pride, but you guys overdo it.

What brings you to Colorado? Your location says Pensacola Florida.

quote:

Yes, my question was serious. Because when I have asked the Texans what brings them to Colorado or another state, most of them say that they can not afford to hunt back home because they either don't own hunting land or can not afford to pay the annual leases required.

For some folks, it is easier to say those things then admitting that they don't want to pay the prices and that being 1000+ miles away from home/work/family is preferrable than being 50 miles away.

If I want to spend money to go to Colorado and shoot a cow elk, or a doe antelope what difference is it to you?

It is My Money, My Time, and it is something that I want to do, what is so hard for you to understand about that.

Does Personal Choice mean anything to you?

I have had a guy come to Texas the past two years to hunt javelina with me, and his big thing is shooting the odd ball stuff, and I don't mean javelina, but on his African Safaris, he has purposely shot antelope of a couple of types that had crooked horns, simply becuse he found them unique.

A trophy or a hunt is in the eye of the person doing it. You want to go to Colorado and just hunt trophy animals, That Is YOUR Thing, not mine and possibly not a lot of others.

Texas is a great place to hunt/fish and live. I can not imagine how it would feel to not be a native born Texan.

I have talked to many folks that have never in their lives gave any thought to going out of Texas to hunt, they are happy with what they have.

quote:

Originally posted by M16:

quote:

Yes, my question was serious. Because when I have asked the Texans what brings them to Colorado or another state, most of them say that they can not afford to hunt back home because they either don't own hunting land or can not afford to pay the annual leases required.

But, it gets really tiring the see a lot of people in your state constantly voicing the opinion that they are from "the greatest state" in the nation while they are in your state. Nothing wrong with state pride, but you guys overdo it.

What brings you to Colorado? Your location says Pensacola Florida.

I'm a 5th generation native of Colorado. I have spent more than 2 decades in the military serving this nation and am still on active duty. Pensacola Fl was my last duty station but I recently transfered to Norfolk, Va. My distaste for Virginia prevents me from claiming that state for anything. My wife is still in Florida at our house since the housing market is in the tank and I'm waiting for it to improve before selling the place. Even though the govt sends me to different states, I still maintain Colorado as my home of record and official residence.

Thanks for asking. Does that clear up your question?

And Crazy Horse, it is nothing to me, just asking a simple question. Why is that Texans get so defensive? I'm honestly curious as to why so many come out of state to hunt. Anything wrong with trying to get some input from various people? Or is it a crime against Texas to ask?

quote:

And Crazy Horse, it is nothing to me, just asking a simple question. Why is that Texans get so defensive? I'm honestly curious as to why so many come out of state to hunt. Anything wrong with trying to get some input from various people? Or is it a crime against Texas to ask?

No crime in asking at all. That is how most pepople learn. Could be that if I seem to be defensive is that when I explained why I hunt out of state, you seemed to find something wrong with my reasoning.

Your using your family ties to Colorado to explain why you go there, and that is a good enough reason to me.

To me it really seems like you are trying awful hard to make Texans, or at least this Texan out to be a liar, abnout my opinion of Texas as being a great place to hunt, simply because I like trying other places.

If I was interested in doing a grand Slam of wild turkeys I would be looking at coming to Florida.

Why would I want to do that when I can go out and legally kill 4 turkeys a year in Texas, with rifle/shotgun or bow, and do it either in the spring or fall or split it between the two.

I am sure that I am wrong, but I just don't believe your questions are as inoffensive as you claim them to be.

In my experience, when a person says they do something because they want to, that is usually a true statement, and that is why they do stuff like going to Colorado.

It don't mean that they don't like hunting here in Texas, I get to hunt something here in Texas everyday, that did not stop me from going to Idaho and shooting a bear and then coming back home and enjoying many hunts here.

You don't seem to like the explanations people give, even though they are being honest.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

And Crazy Horse, it is nothing to me, just asking a simple question. Why is that Texans get so defensive? I'm honestly curious as to why so many come out of state to hunt. Anything wrong with trying to get some input from various people? Or is it a crime against Texas to ask?

No crime in asking at all. That is how most pepople learn. Could be that if I seem to be defensive is that when I explained why I hunt out of state, you seemed to find something wrong with my reasoning.

Your using your family ties to Colorado to explain why you go there, and that is a good enough reason to me.

To me it really seems like you are trying awful hard to make Texans, or at least this Texan out to be a liar, abnout my opinion of Texas as being a great place to hunt, simply because I like trying other places.

If I was interested in doing a grand Slam of wild turkeys I would be looking at coming to Florida.

Why would I want to do that when I can go out and legally kill 4 turkeys a year in Texas, with rifle/shotgun or bow, and do it either in the spring or fall or split it between the two.

I am sure that I am wrong, but I just don't believe your questions are as inoffensive as you claim them to be.

In my experience, when a person says they do something because they want to, that is usually a true statement, and that is why they do stuff like going to Colorado.

It don't mean that they don't like hunting here in Texas, I get to hunt something here in Texas everyday, that did not stop me from going to Idaho and shooting a bear and then coming back home and enjoying many hunts here.

You don't seem to like the explanations people give, even though they are being honest.

Never said I didn't believe what you or anyone else on this forum says is the reason for them hunting anywhere. Just bouncing it off of what others have told me face to face. No single person can even begin to think that they speak for everyone in an entire state (except for DTS, he thinks he can speak for the entire state). Different people have different reasons for doing things. I merely gave some of you a couple of reasons others have told me that happened to be different from the reasons provided on this forum.

All that does is show that there are a number of reasons that so many Texans hunt elsewhere. And they do so for different reasons. I just find it interesting that so many hunt elsewhere when most claim to be from the "best hunting state" of all.

I'll grant you that Texas has hellacious deer and hog hunting. But it is really lacking in elk, moose, bear, caribou, Mtn Goat, Sheep etc... I concede that there are some free ranging elk and some scattered sheep but they ain't common fare for most Texans.

Many times, according to what has been posted on these forums, Texans hunt elsewhere for different game not available there or to experience something different. So it would appear that Texas may be the best state for whitetail and hogs as far as big game goes, but it comes up lacking on real diverisity unless one spends time on the game ranches which officially classify things as livestock.

Nothing wrong with hunting elsewhere mind you. But the very act kind of proves Texas lacks somethings a lot of hunters want. So it may not be the "best hunting state" for everything.

Just an observation. Feel free to disagree, which Im sure you and the rest of the Texans will.

quote:

But the very act kind of proves Texas lacks somethings a lot of hunters want. So it may not be the "best hunting state" for everything.

No one state is the Best for hunting everything.

But Texas is better than the rest when it comes to number of days that even a Non-Resident can hunt and liberal bag limits even for Non-Residents.

Show me or anyone else for that matter, another state where for $315.00, a Non-Resident can kill the exact same number of game birds/animals as a resident can, and over such an extended time period.

I do not believe you can.

I think you may be taking the statement of Texas being the Greatest State to hunt way to literal.

When folks say that, they are usually not referring to the variety, unless they throw in the exotics on high fence places.

Usually they are talking about white tail/wild turkey.

Also, some folks, Texans included have developed a bad taste about Texas hunting because the prices have gone up, so they feel that they can go to Colorado or somewhere else and hunt cheaper.

That is BS from the word go a Non-resident bull elk tag is $550.00 or so, and a hunter only gets to hunt one week out of one season and with gas at the price it is along with meals/lodging and all the other peripheral costs, a weeks D-I-Y for a Non-Resident, unless they are hunting with family, will end up costing around 2K maybe more and the success rate ain't that great.

Texas does not have herds of elk or mulies, Colorado ain't got Musk Ox. Texas don't have huntable bear populations, Colorado don't allow baiting, Idaho does.

Each state has their positive and negative attributes, but having spent a day or two roaming around this country and hunting different states, Texas is damn hard to beat for both residents and non-residents.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

But the very act kind of proves Texas lacks somethings a lot of hunters want. So it may not be the "best hunting state" for everything.

No one state is the Best for hunting everything.

But Texas is better than the rest when it comes to number of days that even a Non-Resident can hunt and liberal bag limits even for Non-Residents.

Show me or anyone else for that matter, another state where for $315.00, a Non-Resident can kill the exact same number of game birds/animals as a resident can, and over such an extended time period.

I do not believe you can.

I think you may be taking the statement of Texas being the Greatest State to hunt way to literal.

When folks say that, they are usually not referring to the variety, unless they throw in the exotics on high fence places.

Usually they are talking about white tail/wild turkey.

Also, some folks, Texans included have developed a bad taste about Texas hunting because the prices have gone up, so they feel that they can go to Colorado or somewhere else and hunt cheaper.

That is BS from the word go a Non-resident bull elk tag is $550.00 or so, and a hunter only gets to hunt one week out of one season and with gas at the price it is along with meals/lodging and all the other peripheral costs, a weeks D-I-Y for a Non-Resident, unless they are hunting with family, will end up costing around 2K maybe more and the success rate ain't that great.

Texas does not have herds of elk or mulies, Colorado ain't got Musk Ox. Texas don't have huntable bear populations, Colorado don't allow baiting, Idaho does.

Each state has their positive and negative attributes, but having spent a day or two roaming around this country and hunting different states, Texas is damn hard to beat for both residents and non-residents.

Thanks for the input. Now that's a reasonable and honest answer. Mind you, I have absolutely nothing against Texas. I've hunted there and had a good time. But I've hunted lots of other states and also had a good time and got a lot of good game. One thing about being military is that you move around to lots of different states. Each has pluses and minuses.

Good hunting can be found lots of places. And bad hunting can also be found lots of places. Have to take each on it's own merits.

And you're right, Colorado doesn't have musk ox. But Texas does and there is just something not quite right about hunting arctic game next to Mexico.

But, Colorado does have Mule Deer, Whitetail Deer, Elk, Moose, Pronghorn, Black Bear, Mountain Lion, Mountain Goat, Bighorn Sheep and Desert Bighorn. That makes 10 species of big game. All available to whoever has a tag in their pocket. Wyoming, Montana, Utah, and Idaho can all state pretty much the same thing.

And that ain't too shabby in this day and age.

quote:

But Texas does and there is just something not quite right about hunting arctic game next to Mexico.

There is where you drift back to being an arrogant smart ass, you ain't stupid and knew what I meant.

I ain't gonna waste any more time with a jerk, which is just exactly what you are.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

But Texas does and there is just something not quite right about hunting arctic game next to Mexico.

There is where you drift back to being an arrogant smart ass, you ain't stupid and knew what I meant.

I ain't gonna waste any more time with a jerk, which is just exactly what you are.

Man you got to quit being so uptight and learn that not every comment is meant to be derogatory. That one was said in jest. What is it about you guys that makes you so defensive all the time.

DAMN! LIGHTEN UP!

quote:

But, Colorado does have Mule Deer, Whitetail Deer, Elk, Moose, Pronghorn, Black Bear, Mountain Lion, Mountain Goat, Bighorn Sheep and Desert Bighorn.

Pretty sure Mountian goat are an introduced species in Colorado, and I have never seen Musk Ox hunted in Texas.

Did not say there were Musk Ox in Texas, I said that they weren't in Colorado, that is why I went to the Arctic to hunt them, also said you can't hunt bear over bait in Colorado but you can in Idaho, and that is why I went there to hunt one.

One of you, and I do not care which one, please point out anywhere that I said there was Musk Ox in Texas.

Wait, You Can't Because I Didn't.

As for Rocky Mountain Goats I do believe they are an introduced species to Colorado, but they do have a huntable population.

I thought Texas offered High fence Musk Ox Hunts???

quote:

Originally posted by OLBIKER:
I thought Texas offered High fence Musk Ox Hunts???

It does. That's why I could say something in jest. But it seems as though someone got their panties in a twist and decided to get all pouty.

quote:

I thought Texas offered High fence Musk Ox Hunts???

and you know it.

quote:

It does. That's why I could say something in jest. But it seems as though someone got their panties in a twist and decided to get all pouty.

Can you show us what company offers high fence Musk Ox?

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

I thought Texas offered High fence Musk Ox Hunts???

and you know it.

I distinctly remember seeing listings for Musk Ox in the SCI Record Book under the Introduced Game Animals section for North America. And all the listings came from Texas. My record book is in Florida and I'm currently in Virginia so I can't reference the exact page. But I assure you the listings are there. You can get ahold of a record book and look for yourself.

quote:

I distinctly remember seeing listings for Musk Ox in the SCI Record Book under the Introduced Game Animals section for North America.

My SCI book is not the current one but in mine there are no entries for an introduced musk ox in North America.

quote:

My SCI book is not the current one but in mine there are no entries for an introduced musk ox in North America.

I have seen Musk Ox in the zoo at Colorado Springs and there may be some others around the country in some of the northern zoos, but a Musk Ox would not live very long in Texas due to the heat, even in the winter.

I believe that if there are ANY Musk Ox in B&C listed as being from ANYWHERE in America, they would be from Alaska.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:

quote:

My SCI book is not the current one but in mine there are no entries for an introduced musk ox in North America.

I have seen Musk Ox in the zoo at Colorado Springs and there may be some others around the country in some of the northern zoos, but a Musk Ox would not live very long in Texas due to the heat, even in the winter.

I believe that if there are ANY Musk Ox in B&C listed as being from ANYWHERE in America, they would be from Alaska.

BC yes. SCI no. Different organizations with different rules for entry. BC will not accept anything from game ranches but SCI does.

None of what you just said proves that you EVER saw ANYTHING about live Musk Ox in Texas, now did it?

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
None of what you just said proves that you EVER saw ANYTHING about live Musk Ox in Texas, now did it?

Nope, but it is obvious to the most casual of observers that if the things have been entered into the SCI record book as being taken off game ranches in Texas that at one point in time those animals had to have drawn breath in that state. After all, the game ranches have Yak and Tahr and both of those could be considered cold weather animals.

Besides, what's your point? You can't prove beyond a shodow of a doubt that there aren't any in Texas on a game ranch either can you? Especially since they are in that record book.

Which still doesn't explain why you got your panties in a twist. You seem willing to fight a war over a very minor subject. Why is that? What does it prove and what do you stand to gain?

Seems like a lot of effort for a statement that was made in jest. You really need to lighten up.

I dunno Kudu,
What should we do about
Too many elk,too few permits

And the rest of you
Go get a bl%w j%b, ya got too much stress.

There ain't no live Musk Ox in Texas, not now, not ever.

They are NOT cold weather animals, they are polar animals/arctic animals and can not/do not survive beyond a certain point of latitude or not for long at least.

Why don't you go back and check your record book. I think you will see that the person that shot the animal was from Texas, but the animal was not in Texas when it was shot.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
There ain't no live Musk Ox in Texas, not now, not ever.

They are NOT cold weather animals, they are polar animals/arctic animals and can not/do not survive beyond a certain point of latitude or not for long at least.

Why don't you go back and check your record book. I think you will see that the person that shot the animal was from Texas, but the animal was not in Texas when it was shot.

Are you really that ludicrous that you don't understand a simple fact. The animals were listed under the INTRODUCED GAME ANIMALS. In other words, they were listed in the exact same category as exotic game. Things like Axis, Fallow, Blackbuck etc... The things that are found on game ranches. And the places that the book said they were taken at was Texas. The SCI records book doesn't list the residence of the hunter, only the location the animal was taken.

You claim to be an outfitter. Are you really telling me you have no clue as to how record books are set up? Have you ever seen one that showed where the hunter was from? They show where animals were taken. You're not much of an outfitter if you don't know how the books work. SCI even has a category for javelina and since that's what you guide for I'm pretty sure you would know how to determine if one of your clients took one that would make the book.

I'm done with you. It's plainly obvious that you're not only clueless but obtuse as well. Nobody knows what exists on every game ranch in Texas. The state is pretty fucking big. And who says the things have to live long if their being imported to be shot.

Hell it wasn't too many years ago (maybe 20 or 25) that people were shooting tigers and lions on some of those ranches. That got shut down but it used to happen. There were several movies floating around back then and I remember seeing one on the nightly news in Denver when it was announced that that type of hunt had been outlawed. And they sure weren't about to let lions and tigers roam free across the Texas landscape and start to reproduce. They turned them loose and then hunted them down.

I would imagine the musk ox listed in the book were probably taken under similar conditions. I never said there were free ranging naturally reproducing populations of the things. I said that they had been taken off the game ranches.

Frankly I have better things to do than continue this pissing contest.

Don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out.

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Did not say there were Musk Ox in Texas, I said that they weren't in Colorado, that is why I went to the Arctic to hunt them, also said you can't hunt bear over bait in Colorado but you can in Idaho, and that is why I went there to hunt one.

One of you, and I do not care which one, please point out anywhere that I said there was Musk Ox in Texas.

Wait, You Can't Because I Didn't.

As for Rocky Mountain Goats I do believe they are an introduced species to Colorado, but they do have a huntable population.

Just checked in the SCI book.

Some lady shot a Muskox in Waller Co. Texas in 1995.

So if you have enough dough, you can shoot a musk ox in Texas.

quote:

Originally posted by crbutler:

quote:

Originally posted by Crazyhorseconsulting:
Did not say there were Musk Ox in Texas, I said that they weren't in Colorado, that is why I went to the Arctic to hunt them, also said you can't hunt bear over bait in Colorado but you can in Idaho, and that is why I went there to hunt one.

One of you, and I do not care which one, please point out anywhere that I said there was Musk Ox in Texas.

Wait, You Can't Because I Didn't.

As for Rocky Mountain Goats I do believe they are an introduced species to Colorado, but they do have a huntable population.

Just checked in the SCI book.

Some lady shot a Muskox in Waller Co. Texas in 1995.

So if you have enough dough, you can shoot a musk ox in Texas.

I STAND VINDICATED AND HAVE JUST HAD MY INFO CONFIRMED BY AN OUTSIDE INDIVIDUAL! I TOLD YOU THAT MUSK OX HAVE BEEN KILLED ON GAME RANCHES IN TEXAS!

I was wrong, it ain't the first time, nor will it be the last.

Sigh.

quote:

Originally posted by JBoutfishn:
Sigh.

LOL. I agree. Never thought this thread would go in this direction.

Thanks for playing nicer though folks.

Many Thanks for posting that. I don't pay attention to or subscribe to any of the record books, and evidently at one time someone did bring at least one Musk Ox into Texas for someone to shoot. I seriously doubt that feat could be repeated in this day and time. At one time supposedly you could find hunts for Gaur in Texas. I have never actually seen any place that offered such hunts, but with the evidence on the Musk Ox it is possible.

To answer one little acusation Flags posed:

quote:

You claim to be an outfitter. Are you really telling me you have no clue as to how record books are set up? Have you ever seen one that showed where the hunter was from? They show where animals were taken. You're not much of an outfitter if you don't know how the books work. SCI even has a category for javelina and since that's what you guide for I'm pretty sure you would know how to determine if one of your clients took one that would make the book.

I do know how record books work and I have advised past clients on animals that I felt might make "The Book", but none of them were interested in finding out. The Musk Ox I shot in Canada, was not aware I could have stayed home and shot one, supposedly would make the SCI book according to the head guide in the camp I was in when he measured it, I don't care.

This whole discussion became so convoluted with all the off topic trash everyone, including myself, threw in to it that the whole discussion became meaningless.


I blame my own part in it as being 60 year old stubborness, I don't see that changing at any point in the future.

As for anyone's, on this site or any other site that I am on, opinion of me as a person because of my opinion on subjects, that is a really immature and pathetic manner for judging a person.

The people I grew up around and learned from, taught me that the true measure of a person, anyone, is measured in their actions and deeds and from Personal Interaction with that person.

I am Thankful, that this site is Adult enough to allow such meaningless discussions as this one to reach their conclusion, without deleting it or banning permanently the guilty parties.

I appreciate the Moderators patience with all of us that were involved.

Seems the bump in NR license fees drove people away from MT.....now if you want a NR big game combo you can buy it OTC after 4/18.

http://billingsgazette.com/new...77-913a81ce4fc9.html

I ain't surprised with that news.