Just a question for you guys who book hunts stateside with outfitters. Do any of you encounter outfitters who don't return calls? I have made several inquiries with outfitters who advertise their trophy whitetail hunts without getting any calls back. I understand how busy some of these outfits are, but I'm seeing a trend among some of these more well known outfits who don't seem to want new business. I don't want to name any names, but if I did, most of you would recognize them. Your thoughts?

I tend not to do business with people who don't return calls.

No matter what type of business it is.

Gracedog it is a common thing for the more popular ones to be too cool for the new kids.

I have noticed the same thing with knife makers. Menafee doesn't return calls or emails, and several people have said the same thing.

If it is recently you might consider they are eather setting up for show season, or in the midst of show season. Not sure who you are talking about, or what continent, but we have 7 shows here in Europe in the next 7 weeks.

I think it is the same in America.

I know of only 2 North Missouri outfitters

They are booked one year in advance with repeat hunters and even though they still have a website they don't answere emails or return phone calls

I’m an outfitter/guide and I try my best to return any calls or texts. But it is surprising how many guys are surprised I call back. So I’d guess calling folks back isn’t the norm for some i’d Guess.

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I tend not to do business with people who don't return calls.

I don't do business with them EVER!!!

It is called a lack of Common Courtesey.

If someone calls me or texts me on the hunts I offer, I do my best to get back to them ASAP even if I can't put together the hunt they want.

When some folks are flush, have plenty of business, they get complacent.

Thanks to those who have commented. I guess that I am a bit old fashioned, but if someone asks me a question, they get a straightforward answer, with no BS attached. I have done a considerable amount of traveling to hunt over the last 27 years, with a number of different outfitters in 3 different countries, and two different continents. I have noticed that many of the better known outfits seem to prefer that a prospective hunter just throw them a deposit, with no questions asked. If that's what these guys expect, it is best that I inquire elsewhere. Times are changing, and apparently, this is true in the outfitting business as well.

It seems that sometimes they are the greatest business people. If it’s season, I’ll give them a slight pass. But off season, I tend to move along.

There is really no excuse for it; none.

As a business owner (not hunting), if I know I am going to be out of town, or out of phone service, I will have my call forwarded to an employee that will be able to help.

Being "in the field" or "out of phone service" is really no excuse.

If the call is important, the owner will/can make sure someone is available.

What drives me nuts is when a business will only let you contact them via email. That tells me they are too important to take a few minutes to discuss work/business. I do not understand why a business would want to operate this way.

Everyone is busy, most everyone works a lot. We/they can make time.

Yeah, no correspondence = no deal. Just common courtesy to respond to someone who is going to dump 4-5 figures for your services. I'm sure they get jackwads that need their hand held thru 50 calls, texts and emails but I would guess that's the rare exception like in any business dealings (including my surgical practice thankfully).

If they do not respond within a reasonable time, I take them off my list. My reasoning is that if they are that hard to contact when I am trying to give them money, I can only imagine how much harder it will be to contact them after they have my money.

To me if a person is in business he should at the bare minimum have there answering machine or email set up to advise callers that they are currently out of reach till a certain date, and if it is an emergency to call another number that can easily reach out to them, to me an outfitter without a satellite phone or an in reach system should not be in the business . A call to number can eliminate ridiculous calls and have that person use discretion on when to contact the guide JMO

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Originally posted by Lhook7:
If they do not respond within a reasonable time, I take them off my list. My reasoning is that if they are that hard to contact when I am trying to give them money, I can only imagine how much harder it will be to contact them after they have my money.

+100

You nailed that one!!!!

Gents:

It appears that some people don't realize that outfitters have a devise on their telephone that identifies those callers that are "tire kickers".

Or the outfitters are fully booked and have a two waiting list.

It help to understand by putting your self in the outfitters shoes. In the comfort of your living room, you say "I'll return all calls." I bet not.

I have been a practicing CPA for over 50 years. When discussing our firm with a prospective new client and he discusses price within the first sentences of our meeting, I politely tell him that we are not taking on new client at this time and show him the door. Such nit pickers are a pain in the ass.

Yes Sir, the problem however is Outfitters, if they are seriously trying to stay in business really can't afford to figure out who is a "Tire Kicker" and who isn't.

You have to respond to each inquiry with a certain level of professionalism. Yes there will be those that are just "Kicking Tires", but unlike a CPA or any other such business, hunting/fishing Guides/Outfitters work within restrictive time frames and for them to stay in business, long enough to build up a clientele of repeat customers that they know are serious, they hjave to put up with the "tire kickers".

quote:

Originally posted by cpaer:
Gents;


I have been a practicing CPA for over 50 years. When discussing our firm with a prospective new client and he discusses price within the first sentences of our meeting, I politely tell him that we are not taking on new client at this time and show him the door. Such nit pickers are a pain in the ass.

Most folks who even have a need for a CPA didn't get that way by not asking the price of something they are about to buy that may cost a few thousand dollars. I for one, do not think a few thousand dollars is nit picking, I wouldn't even eat a meal in a restaurant that had no prices on the menu.
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Originally posted by MacD37:

quote:

Originally posted by cpaer:
Gents;


I have been a practicing CPA for over 50 years. When discussing our firm with a prospective new client and he discusses price within the first sentences of our meeting, I politely tell him that we are not taking on new client at this time and show him the door. Such nit pickers are a pain in the ass.

Most folks who even have a need for a CPA didn't get that way by not asking the price of something they are about to buy that may cost a few thousand dollars. I for one, do not think a few thousand dollars is nit picking, I wouldn't even eat a meal in a restaurant that had no prices on the menu.
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Totally agree.....and most of em are bean counters to whom you have to point out half their job. I can't tell you how many times I've heard over the years "my job is to keep you from getting audited" from a cpa. Bullshit. Your job is to keep me from paying one red cent more to the gov't than I have to by any and all legal means.

Any CPA that turns away business should close shop, I have worked with many law firms and CPA' I can't tell you how many statements of "DEEP POCKETS" have I heard, many of a "shallow pockets client are kept but forwarded to an associate, that how the system works, there are allot more dimes around than $100 gold peaces

Seems to me that before any transaction can go forward in any business, there has to be an understanding of approx cost/profit. Perhaps the guide/cpa/hooker/etc uses a sliding scale know in the trade as "all the traffic will bear"....
When someone tells me what wonderful service/product they are gonna give me, one of my first questions is "explain that to me in dollars and cents"..

quote:

Originally posted by Gracedog:
Just a question for you guys who book hunts stateside with outfitters. Do any of you encounter outfitters who don't return calls? I have made several inquiries with outfitters who advertise their trophy whitetail hunts without getting any calls back. I understand how busy some of these outfits are, but I'm seeing a trend among some of these more well known outfits who don't seem to want new business. I don't want to name any names, but if I did, most of you would recognize them. Your thoughts?

I average about 50% for return emails from outfitters that I contact for hunts.

How do you sort the "tire kickers" from legitimate potential clients?
Please tell me more about the device that detects "tire kickers" over the phone.
Aren't "tire kickers" potential customers? Maybe not now, but in the future.

I've used the services of several outfitters on low-end hunts and cannot remember not getting some sort of response to phone calls and emails. There have been several times when I was told the hunts were booked up but there was always a response. Maybe the price point has something to do with it - "tire kickers" dreaming about a hunt that they could never afford - but how do you know for sure?

It's not just outfitters.

I'm going to go to Namibia next year and contacted three of the highest recommended (Here on AR) travel agents last week, asking for information. One of them returned my email.

That is part and parcel of doing business, ANY KIND of business.

Some folks are going to just to say price is no object, but not everyone.

If an outfitter/guide feels that they do not have to worry about taking on new clients, that is their prerogative.

But some of us out here really do not have funds to simply piss off. What is wrong with asking a guide/outfitter about their success rate pover the past 3 to 5 years?

Just because one hunter has a good hunt, does not mean EVERY hunter has had a great hunt.

From experience, guides/outfitters can/do and will work harder for repeat clients, simply because they know what those clients expect.

On the other side of the coin are those clients/potential clients that think just because a person is a guide/outfitter, it is "Guaranteed" that the client will be successful, and that just isn't realistic.

I expected "tire kicking" to be brought up at some point. The fact is, that outfitters are in the business of selling hunts. Any prospective client who simply contacts an outfitter and puts down a deposit without asking at least a few questions is a fool. There are some crooked outfits out there, and anyone with half a brain should ask a few questions, and talk to some references before sending any deposit money.

quote:

Any prospective client who simply contacts an outfitter and puts down a deposit without asking at least a few questions is a fool. There are some crooked outfits out there, and anyone with half a brain should ask a few questions, and talk to some references before sending any deposit money.

Plus One!

That is as True and Accurate statement as can be made.

Wake up there are more than a few skewed outfitters in today's market place. Sadly it is more the norm these days. Way too many have learned via the internet that a great web site sells hunts a good web site makes the part timers and scammers look legit. Reference lists are near worthless at best unless you personally know someone whom has recently used the outfitter.
Place a call talk to the owner if he/she does not speak to you their self move along down your list.
Here is another often over looked tip : pick the time frame YOU want then ask the outfitter if there will be any "celebrities" hunting that time, if so DO NOT fall for their BS line that all are treated equally as far as guides or stands! YOU WILL NOT BE, trust me!! I booked a trip to a famous "Paradise" for Buck in Sask. Paid $8K to see Pat &Nicole get their pick of stands after looking at trail,cam photos. 10 other hunters killed 4 bucks under 130" they kept getting moved until they killed two over170" TO STANDS NO ONE ELSE EVEN SAT ONCE!

I think that is baloney. We outfits and answer the best we can every call and email. It doesn't matter if it is a returning client, a potential new client or somebody you know is just a tire kicker. That's just how we do business.

quote:

Originally posted by cpaer:
Gents:

It appears that some people don't realize that outfitters have a devise on their telephone that identifies those callers that are "tire kickers".

Or the outfitters are fully booked and have a two waiting list.

It help to understand by putting your self in the outfitters shoes. In the comfort of your living room, you say "I'll return all calls." I bet not.

I have been a practicing CPA for over 50 years. When discussing our firm with a prospective new client and he discusses price within the first sentences of our meeting, I politely tell him that we are not taking on new client at this time and show him the door. Such nit pickers are a pain in the ass.

I have been a practicing CPA for over 50 years.

Time to quit practicing and be a real CPA.

When discussing our firm with a prospective new client and he discusses price within the first sentences of our meeting.

What nerve to actually want to know what you charge.
I politely tell him that we are not taking on new client at this time and show him the door.

Damn right, who does he think he is??

Such nit pickers are a pain in the ass.

Right,you can`t really tell him how much you are going to hose him.

You are a real Prince.

Well put Olbiker! I'm glad he lives in northern MI and I live down in the sw part way away from that practicing CPA, LOL!

Note to self: Do not take sales and marketing advice from Bean Counters!

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Originally posted by Jason P:
Note to self: Do not take sales and marketing advice from Bean Counters!

Guys,

Even the a serial "Tyre Kicker" can be a great reference. If I don't return a call or e-mail it's just an oversight on my part and not a conscious decision.

Mark

I have not experienced that problem. Usually I email first to tell them I am going to call.

Mark Young answers my call every time even though I have yet to book a hunt with him. Same with Wendell Reich.

My PH on my first trip to RSA said I sent the most emails of any client he ever had. He responded to every one. I admit I sent a lot of them. Told him it's my money and my investment and wanted to make sure I'm investing wisely. Some other outfits didn't. They were quickly dropped.

I got a few emails out at the moment. Some have gotten back to me and some haven't. Even got a few follow-up emails out. Trying to set something up for my 50th birthday but, I think my wife has contacted a few of guides/outfitters. It could possibly be the reason I haven't heard back from them.

Glad we’re discussing this as it’s a growing problem. My friends and I hunt pretty extensively - and this is the biggest “turn off” for most of us. The good news is that as a group we’ve collectively developed some solid relationships with a lot of outfitters. But occasionally we’re exploring new markets.

Outfitter talents vary a lot. Some are great guides, some are great hunters but impatient guides, some are great at marketing. But I’ve found a lot of them aren’t very good businessmen, and fail to realize they’re in a “personal service” business. If I’m thinking about booking I’ll do some research to get an idea about an operation and have my list of questions ready prior to calling. Sometimes I’ll email first. But ideally like to meet and talk at outdoor shows (with a call or email ahead of time).

Know a fantastic Mule Deer outfitter - great guy who knows how to get folks on game, including bowhunters. I’ve referred a bunch of folks to him only to get exasperated calls from guys who really wanted to book that he never gets back to them — then the outfitter later complains that he can’t fill all of his hunts. Go figure!

Also completely agree on the Hunting Celebrity Deal - been in camps where guides finally “fessed-up” that they were under orders to only let the celebs on camera hunt their prime spots. Today if I’m at a show or viewing a website and celebs are the prime marketing, I’m out! Why in the world would I hunt with them when I’ll just be overcharged and given less focus while hunting a non-prime area.

I remember back in the early and mid 2000's the real estate market was booming. You couldn't get a contractor to return a call. If they built a house for you and something went wrong you damned sure weren't going to get them to come fix it. They took customers for granted. A lot of them lost their asses in the real estate market crash. I don't normally celebrate the loss of others, but collectively a bigger batch of pricks have never gotten their due. It thrilled me. How busy are most outfitters this time of the year? Obviously too busy to look at a big picture.

I know a couple of booking agents and a couple of Outfitters that are in the bush 9 months out of the year, and some of them get 150 calls a day and one gets 300 or more a day. A lot 0f calls fall thru the cracks when you get that many calls, and if you have been on safari for 45 days or more.Its a double edged sword, but when outfitters get that big they get up to their ears in gators, they have way more business than they need, and it gets overwhelming..

Do yourself a favor and just call back until you catch them in the office would be my advise, most of them are the best outfitters for a reason or they wouldn't churn that much business...but to each his own on this subject, but you may in fact be your own worst enemy and miss the best hunt you could ever have.

Those outfitters that are that busy, could have an answering service, even if was just their wife or one of their kids feilding those calls.

From experience, some business people, when they are flush with lots of business comiong in have a bad gtendencvy to forget what things were like when they were just getting started!

I understand by the nature of their business, they are going to be hard to get in touch with at times, being out of cell phone range, working on their ranch, etc. However! I’ve never booked with anyone that wasn’t willing to get back to me and communicate with me. They’re in the entertainment business, and not everyone has the ability to talk about their vacation during the day, so sometimes those calls will have to be during the evening, plus I don’t know many people that have their own business that operate only during the normal 9-5 timeframe (and are successful). Of the outfitters that I’ve hunted with, that has been no problem though. As was said above- if they don’t communicate with you when you are trying to give them money, it’s going to be worst after they have your money. No truer words have ever been said, and that’s not just true in the hunting world.

As to the CPA above, if someone treated me like you described, I’d take an ad out in the local paper and post several reviews online to make sure everyone knew about that experience, I would imagine that would save you even more time from those nit pickers that want to know what you charge...