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| <Caveman> |
Any experiences with these? How do they compare to Zeiss, Swarovski, and Leupold? As far as light gathering, etc.? | ||
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| <Daryl Elder> |
I have a Kahles 3-9x42mm with the TDS reticle. I like it but would have to say that it is not as clear as my Swarovski 3-9x36mm. Still, a very nice scope. | ||
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| Moderator |
Kahles are not as bright as Zeiss, Swarovski, or Schmidt & Bender. They are about the same as the Leupold V-X III (to my eyes at least). You should investigate the Zeiss Conquest line of scopes. They are available for as little as $369 for a 3x-9x. George ------------------ | |||
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| <Bill> |
I have a Kahles 1.5-6 scope with a 30mm tube and super heavy duplex. I think it was designed for dangerous game hunting. Only thing I dislike about it is the relatively short eye relief. ------------------
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one of us |
Corey, Swarovski owns the Kahles line, and you can think of it as their lower price version. I used a 30mm Kahles 1.5-6X on a hunt in Zim last September, and it performed well. The only reason I have it is it came on the rifle. It has their #7 heavy plex reticle. Adjustments are "honest", in that they go where they are supposed to. The tube is aluminum, and I scratched it up on the hunt. For cost-effectiveness, it is pretty hard to beat Leupold. They have good eye relief too. jim dodd ------------------ | |||
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| one of us |
One big advantage of Swarovski and Kahles scopes is that they are still available in steel. IMHO Kahles are very reliable and durable, but I can only speak from experience for the fixed power scopes. I have one that is nearing 40 years. Good shooting! H ------------------ | |||
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one of us |
I have a Kahles 4-12 x 56 with german No. 1 reticle on my Steyr SSG rifle. It was a sale offer, so I bought it and I did not regret the buy so far. The scope is reliable and accurate, I would recommend it to others. | |||
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| one of us |
I own two Kahles, an old 7x56 and a new 1,5-6x42. Very good Austrian quality (OK im austrian too - got to be proud of them  .The 7x56 is for hunting boars at night - you wouldn't belief how good you can see with it in the dark. The eye-relief of the new line is 9cm/3,5" and the view of sight on 1,5 is 26 meters (!) at 100 meter, guess this is a real advantage for DG hunting and I use it for driven boar in Austria. The new 1,1-4x24 has a view of sight of 36 meters (!!!) at 100 meters - I don't think there is any other scope on the market that offers that!? The oculars on the new scopes have 43mm / 1.7" gives a good picture and is very fast for quick shots on moving targets. I am very satisfied with it, service is also good, I visited the company here in Vienna to check a scope. I will take a 1,1-4x24 for my future 450NE 3 1/4, 750$ here in Austria. Franz | |||
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| one of us |
I had a kahles 6x42 on my Enfield which I shot thousands of rounds through and stalked with. It was completely reliable and I honestly couldn't tell any difference between it and my Zeiss or Swarovski 6x42s. The factory sent me replacement turret caps free of charge. | |||
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one of us |
I have 3 Kahles 3-9x42 scopes with TDS reticle. While I prefer the Swarovski and Zeiss scopes that I have on other guns, I like the Kahles because I can get the TDS reticle in a fairly compact and bright scope. I have been playing with the TDS reticle for about a year now and am very impressed with how fast and accurate it is for long range shooting. You'll like the Kahles, but it still isn't as bright as the Swarovski or other Euro scopes. I like them better than Leupolds, though. It seems to my eye like Leupolds give everything a yellow tint. ------------------ | |||
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| <monz> |
I�ve been looking at a Kahles Helia 3-10x50 for a time and finally bought it this morning. Mostly cause the price will raise about 35% next week here in Sweden.I think that the Kahles is way better than the Leupold. Europeans are the only ones that can make good optics. No, honestly... The german and austrian scopemakers have longer tradition and experience of making scopes good for night hunting. I would place the Leupold in the same category as Bushnell and Weaver. The optics are not better than that. Kahles together with Zeiss, Schmidt&Bender and Szarowski is the NO1.league. They leave all the others behind. I�ve only heard americans who preferr a Leupold instead of a german/austrian scope, strange... For my 9,3x62 Wild boar rifle I have a Zeiss 3-12x56 and you cant beat that optic quality... | ||
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one of us |
quote: You can�t beat that price either... Honestly, Fritz [This message has been edited by Fritz Kraut (edited 01-17-2002).] | |||
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| <monz> |
Fritz! 7000 aint that expensive for a brand new Zeiss. I wanted to buy a Helia cause I like em, but came across this one and got it cheap. | ||
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| one of us |
I've found the 30mm Kahles to be much brighter than any Leupold. They are heavy in the steel model though. I don't care for the European optics, even though they are somewhat brighter than the American scopes. They are bulkier, heavier and lacking in eye relief, and often lacking in English adjustments. We don't hunt at night in the USA so paying THREE times the price for a bulky silly Euro scope makes no sense for me. | |||
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| one of us |
KuduKing- It is true that some of the top models of the European brands cost 3 times more then say a VariX3, but Leupold has that LPS that rivals the price of the more exspensive models of say Zeiss. I would easily pay 300 more to get a much more quality peice of equipment. When I look through a Leupold the actual "circle" seems much smaller then that of a comparable Zeiss I looked at the same time. Also, Leupold reticles tend to look red in some angles, whereas the Zeiss' reticle remained dark black the entire time. Just something to think about. I don't get why some people pay several thousand for a rifle, but wont splurge a few hundred more for a much better scope.... I will never buy a Leupold. I just don't like their looks nor do I like their scopes. That big GOLD ring pisses me off... | |||
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| <monz> |
BUELL, I agree 100%. I�ve owned a Leupold 3-9x40. The only good thing about that scope was the German NO1. reticle which I had to order specificly. Since we hunt a lot at night here in Sweden You must have a good (european) scope. Leupold is S**t. A Leupold aint lighter than the european light metal models. AND you have to bring a dam**d coin or something to adjust it at the range, brilliant idea....not. Spend some more $ and get a good scope that will last a lifetime and more... | ||
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| <AWB> |
I have a 1.5-6 by 42 on a .300 Win Mag. I use it for Boar and Deer. I can only say that the scope is superb with the light gathering qualities being first rate. | ||
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| one of us |
quote: Hmmm... Do you mean 7000 Swed. crowns ($700) is that a rather good price. But I think that about 10000-12500($1000-1250) crowns would be a more realistic price. It�s a superior scope, but it�s an awful lot of money. Fritz | |||
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| <monz> |
Yes Fritz thats right it�s 7000 Swedish crowns. Tror du att jag skulle tycka sjutusen dollar var billigt  | ||
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| <LiMe> |
m�ste d� ta och fr�ga var monz k�pte sin zeiss =D det billiaste ja hittat hittils �r p� kjells vapen f�r 7700... tycker faktiskt inte det �r s� dyrt med tanke p� att de zeiss som sitter p� pappas b�ssor �r kanonfina! kan knappt v�nta tills den dan han trillar av pinn... ; ) (sk�mtar) kolla bara p� vad zeissen kostar i USa s� inser man att 7000 �r ett riktigt bra pris... f�rdrar att ta pris dividerat p� antal �r det h�ller n�r ja k�per prylar =D the reazon to why i am writing in Swedish is that i don�t want all the americans to come and buy all our cheep ziess scopes.. =D | ||
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| <monz> |
LiMe! I bought it at Vapencentralen in Malm�. The list price is 7700 but i got it cheaper since it was the last one they had in stock. They do sell Zeiss scopes for netto price (ink�p+moms=kundens pris) I love that scope and wont change. The only thing about it is that its heavy, 770 grams. Add that to the 3,5 kilos that my Carl Gustaf weighs+200grams for a clip with four 9,3x62`s and one in the chamber. | ||
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| <LiMe> |
yes i know, it is a little bit more expensive than other scopes, but i think that it is well placed money... my father has scopes with 56 and 42 mm linces and i think that they are so much clearer than the leupold scope wich are on ours sako Wixen 222r. will put zeiss or schmidt&bender scopes on the rifles that i will buy in the future... | ||
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| one of us |
All you Euro hunters should definitely buy Euro scopes. Since you sit in blinds and blast animals at night at known ranges, they are perfect scopes for you. The fact that they are overly bulky and heavy and dont allow a good cheek weld is of no consequence for your style of hunting. In the USA, we generally get off of our butts and walk trails and climb mountains and so we appreciate lightweight scopes that allow us to get a quick sight picture due to low mounting. We shoot with our heads down here, which is why most of your Euro rifles with dropping combs don't fit Americans, and sell like crap here. The Leupold LPS is complete joke here in USA. It was designed to give Leupold a huge bulky heavy scope to sell in Europe to you folks. No one with any real hunting experience in the USA uses that turkey. I don't doubt the optical "superiority" of the Kahles, Swarovski, Zeiss, etc over Leupold VX series. It's just that it isn't necessary, as the Leupold works fine in the USA, and anywhere else that people hunt sunrise to sunset. And the tradeoff in weight, bulk and eye relief of the Euro scopes is frankly ridiculous for the American hunter. | |||
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| <Caveman> |
[QUOTE]Originally posted by LiMe: [B]m�ste d� ta och fr�ga var monz k�pte sin zeiss =D det billiaste ja hittat hittils �r p� kjells vapen f�r 7700... tycker faktiskt inte det �r s� dyrt med tanke p� att de zeiss som sitter p� pappas b�ssor �r kanonfina! kan knappt v�nta tills den dan han trillar av pinn... ; ) (sk�mtar) kolla bara p� vad zeissen kostar i USa s� inser man att 7000 �r ett riktigt bra pris... f�rdrar att ta pris dividerat p� antal �r det h�ller n�r ja k�per prylar =D YEAH...I AGREE, THATS WHAT WE ARE ALL SAYING DOWN HERE IN SOUTH TEXAS FOR SURE!!!!!!!!! | ||
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| <LiMe> |
so corey... did you understand anything of what i wrote?  the thing I mean is that here in sweden we can buy leupolds V-x 2 for like 500 bucks, and te zeiss for like 700. quite a easy thing for me to chose scope... | ||
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| Moderator |
KuduKing, I know you guys live in Gods Country, but where you hunt, don't you have like shadows and overcast days?? Do you hunt during the short days of winter??? How long does it take to become an expireneced deer hunter in the US??? In most States it must take a long time with their short firearm seasons and small bag limits per season..... Pete | |||
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| <monz> |
KuduKing! Ten years ago the European scopes where bulky and heavy. Today they are light and smooth. Kahles Compact series, Zeiss V series, S&B new series and Swarowskis New Habicht... All of them above are as smooth and light as a similar Leupold. | ||
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| one of us |
Pete E, in some of the southern states the limit is two deer per day, and the season runs for a couple months. Lots of chances to hone your skills. As to the scope questions, yes some of the European scopes are better optically. But are they worth the cost differance? It depends where and how you hunt. Most North American hunting allows shots twenty minutes to one half hour before sunrise and after sunset. If you want the best "dark" performance, pay the money and carry the weight. But for most of our hunting, it really isn't a requirement. FWIW - Dan | |||
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| Moderator |
Dan, I can't argue about Leupold being good value for money...especially in the States..i would say a used 6x42 M8 leupold as to be a great value scope for deer hunting.. Pete | |||
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| one of us |
May risk some flack here but my VMV 3-12 when hunting Hogs, which we do here year round (including night) and there is no bag limit is without a doubt the best pc of glass that I have looked thru! Now I own or have owned most of the upper end makes over the years S&B, Swarovski, Zeiss, Kahles, Leupold, and Nikon. Kahales is right up there with the best of them but it is not quite at the VMV Line level or the Swarovski PH Line. Why do I say this you might ask well this some of you may find interesting. Last summer I finally saved enough to get the ultimate long-range pig rifle (at least in my opinion) the AAI AWM in 338 Lapua. The S&B Scope I really did not want because of the 34mm tube so I went down to SWFA for those of you know of them. David and I discussed several scopes and then put all of them on the table (Zeiss, Swar, 30mm S&B, Night Force, LPS, Kahles. David then opened the back door to the building and I spent the next 20 minutes comparing sharpness, clarity, color, and eye relief at different magnifications while sitting in the air conditioning. It is telling that some scopes pick up the heat as it is reflected and how some scopes pick up the detail of the bark on a limb of a tree that is shaded by the leaves better than others. It is very eye opening to have all of these products in front of you and compare them in real world conditions. The only one of the bunch that I would not buy is the Night Force as it was clearly not in the same league as the others but remember I was looking for a scope that would pull duty at night as well and with what I had read about the NF decided to give it a look see. Hope this helps and the bottom line is this---the rifle I use for quite a bit of my short range hunting here in Texas and Colorado is a 30-06 with a 2.2 x 9 Kahles that I have had for about 10 years and was the first Euro glass I had purchased! DWM | |||
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| <Guy Kish> |
Does anyone have any idea what the price of a used Kahles 8x56 scope is? My friend has one in excellent condition. | ||
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| <Husky> |
Guy Kish, You could buy an used Schmidt & Bender 8x56 at www.torsbohandels.com for ~USD 350 or an used helia 2,2 - 9x42 Light for ~USD 450. /Husky | ||
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| one of us |
quote: My aren't we anal. I was surprised you didn't mention the glaring (pun) advantage a Loopold has. It is the worlds no1 scope for ass shooting. More asses are shot using Loopolds than any other brand of scope! It's pretty good for shooting off mouth too.... | |||
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| <Jagermeister> |
I think anyone complaining about the weight of a Schmidt and Bender needs to get off their ass and deal with it and stop bitching about a few ounces difference. The tough American hunters should be able to handle it, no? PS...Leupold sucks | ||
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| <Guy Kish> |
I live in the US. So I don't think it is practical. Although I did do some business with the Swedish goverment at one time.
quote: | ||
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| <Husky> |
Guy Kish, There is no trouble to order a scope from that company in Sweden -if you find the prices interesting! I buy my Rhino bullets from Kobus in RSA and reloading tools and Woodleigh.s from AMMO DUMP in Australia /Husky | ||
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| one of us |
1894, Please, the war's over for 225 years, we're friends now. And you Brits aren't really Euros are you? Don't you still have that Pound money thing? | |||
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| <Jagermeister> |
KuduKing, Are you suggesting that the defining measure of being European is accepting that stupid new currency? | ||
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| <Husky> |
Sweden still has it's Krona currency and we are still a kingdom - long live the King! /Husky | ||
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