The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Conservation African Lions Hunting Management And Ecology LCTF Mission & Vision on Lion HuntingGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| One of Us |
The paragraphs below state the mission & vision on lion hunting of the Lion Conservation Task Force (LCTF). The LCTF is a completely pro-lion-hunting organization. In fact...its only mission is to save lion hunting as...if lion hunting were to go...so would go the lion and the rest of Africa's fauna as well! Sustainable lion hunting is the taking only of individuals that will not harm the overall population in a given hunting area. In the future...we believe that hunting companies should only take these types of animals REGARDLESS of quotas. We believe that companies should tell their clients up front that they are only going to allow the taking of mature lions that are believed to not hold a pride with dependent cubs at the time of the hunt. We believe that PH's should educate themselves, if they are not already, on age-based-individual-lion-decision making. And lastly we believe that hunters themselves owe it to the lion to educate themselves on what a mature lion looks like and should visit with their PH ahead of time about the taking of only mature individuals that are NOT holding a pride with dependent cubs. Lion hunting of the future cannot be a guarantee to get a lion. A hunter must realize that he/she is investing in the chance to hunt a lion, the experience itself, with the possibility of a trophy harvest. After all as the old saying goes: "That's why they call it hunting...not killing." ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | ||
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I believe in dynamic wildlife management. That means that responsible wildlife biologists can and should fluctuate harvest numbers just as goals of hunting companies fluctuate both fiscaly and biologicly. This can mean I support the harvest of lioness, young males, and old males as management sees fit. This also means that I believe no man from Texas or Colorado holds the keys to wildlife management of any species over an area as broad as an entire continent or as diverse as even a single species. This means I believe that the LCTF, no matter how true their intentions, is detriment to African hunting in general and whose scope is too narrow for feasable and sustainable hunting of all legal species within Africa. | |||
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Ben, I would agree with you if that were likely to ever happen. Problem is that it is not. Also...I would not worry with it so much if the lion were not facing the struggles it is...especially ESA listing. But they are. If Africa were Texas...it would be easy. We would just hire you to manage them as you say above. Problem is...it ain't. So...until something better comes along...we will just have to do the next best thing and extrapolate from the things we have learned and do know. That is why the LCTF has the mission and vision that it does. But...thank you for your input. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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False. Plenty of areas have sustainable lion hunting with a healthy populations under a managed quota system that has existed for years. Are there places where this has failed no doubt. But those are cases of idiocy and corruption. Fix the problems with idiocy and corruption, and leave systems alone that work fine for people who care and are responsible. | |||
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Ben, It is easy to say such things and there are some well mananged areas for sure. Why don't you share some specific examples of some of the success stories you speak of so that we may talk about them. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Lion hunting has gotten better and better within the lower Zambezi valley ecosystems. The Save conservancy sets very conservative quotas on their lions. There they try and shoot the oldest lions they can find but if a mistake is made and a young lion or a breeding lion is taken the effects will not damage the overall population. Each year they have more lions than the last year and they have constantly worked and re-worked their quotas to adapt to their management goals within the conservancy. There are hunting operations in Mozambique that are also run this way and they have to really mange their lions tightly because much of their herds are in a rebuilding stage of management and they can't let lions go completlely unchecked or it could set their management goals back on several other species. By the way its even easier to say you are going to decide the management goals for all of the hunting areas within africa that have lions on them From Texas | |||
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I am afraid that this might take the second coming of Christ. At some point we cannot let the perfect be the enemy of the good. The ECOS just need a few points to list the lions and or other species. And they arent interested in logic. SSR | |||
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Cross L, the idiot and the corrupt will not suddenly vanish under this proposed management technique of the LCTF and the ECOS will still be able to use those mistakes against us. | |||
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agreed, so why would we let them frame the arguement? | |||
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i think if we can get the petition canned, we will be able to start our other programs but as we were told the first is get it canned even though it will be presented again it will give us more time to sort through other problems that will be difficult.Hopefully the powers that be will listen to reason and do away with the petition. | |||
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Please show us some evidence of this along with pics of the lions shot in the lower Zambezi. This is one of the areas I watch closely. Show what you are citing sir. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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Tune into tracks across africa sometime. The vast majority of lions they kill on that show are from the lower zambezi. You see a fairly wide range of younger and older males. All the outfits I know in Zim all say that the population of lion in the lower zambezi has been rising for the past several years. I was there 7 years ago and saw lion %50 of the days I was there and we were not even hunting lion. Lastly I attended a dinner and Craig Boddington, who was the guest speaker talking about lion management, actualy stated that the lower Zambezi as one of the few places on the African continent where there are too many lion. It has adversly effected their calf mortality in the buff herds. As best i can tell there is no one within the lower Zambezi doing an in depth lion management study so you will actually have to listen to the people that hunt there or work there. Maybe a good study there could be funded by the LCTF so yall could learn a wide range of management goals and objectives for not just lion but how they manage their surroundings in conjunction with other species. | |||
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what is the "timeline" on the current petition? I assume this is the petition that has been submitted and is featured at the top of this forum? | |||
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That is part of the problem there is no exact timeline. We are hoping to have enough info in front of them so that when it is looked at we will be in the fore front. they have met about the petition before and not done anything and we hope they don't. I would love to seee a study on the zambezi also and hopefuuly we will be able to raise enough to put someone on the ground working with the outfitters and lion populations. I think that is a reasonable question and observation. I agree all places are not the exact same. | |||
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I have read the "petition" posted on this forum, has someone submitted something in writing to Ken Salizar's office to counter act this? What would it take to get a copy of that? | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Conservation African Lions Hunting Management And Ecology LCTF Mission & Vision on Lion Hunting
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