Simply put I've never owned a 9.3mm caliber rifle. So what do I know?

What does the 9.3 offer that the .358 doesn't in real field use? For those of you that appreciate the 9.3 caliber will you share your reasoning with me? It is just that I would like to gain an understanding. roger

Roger,
Normally when we talk 9.3 we're meaning something on the 30-06 size case or larger and the .358 is typically meant to be on the .308 case.

So let me explain a bit of the differences of the 9.3 X 62 compared to the .35 Whelen if I may.

There is one stark difference.....the 9.3 has a grandfathers clause in many African countries for DG.....maybe it should not but it does!

The 9.3 X 62 has another difference in that it's standard chamber has a lot of freebore like the weatherbys and this helps it gain another 100'/sec over the Whelen. Yes, we can freebore the whelen too.....but normally we don't!

Other than that they're nearly identical as both can be reloaded with roughly the same weight of bullet and both have excellent bullets available.

Add the freebore to the Whelen and I think 2,600'/sec is realistic with 250 grain bullets and this is 3,800 ft-lb energy.....fairly impressive for the 30-06 case!

.366-06 VS 358-06. The 9,3mm does have the twist for over 300gr bullets. The factory 35 Whelens built here by Remington & Ruger, IIRC, all are saddled with 1:14" twists that limits them to 250gr or so bullets. I passed on a very nice Ruger Wednesday for that very reason.

Rich
DRSS

have had a 35 whelen and used it exstensively on all manner of aussie game, it worked well. have now got a 9.3x62, it it similar, but has the edge with regards to knock down on the same game. but really there is not much in it....they are both fine under rated rounds.


cheers cc

bartsche,
In Australia ... 9.3 gets you a greater variety of heavier 286/320gr projectiles in sleek shapes ... 35cal is limited pretty much to 200gr to 250gr. In my opinion, bugger all difference between the two ... but I prefer the 35cal as the pistol projectile option is important to me. I just wish Woodleigh would produce a Weldcore RN 275gr in 35cal!!!
Cheers...
Con

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
Roger,
Normally when we talk 9.3 we're meaning something on the 30-06 size case or larger and the .358 is typically meant to be on the .308 case.

Thanks VD.

I should have been more explicite.I was speaking of 35 cal. vs 9.3 caliber and not specific cartridges. roger

There is a pretty good 9.3 thread over on the "other channel" under the Gun Writers board. "Mule Deer" has a very interesting response about using a 9.3x62 on his recent trip across the pond earlier this month...and some 9.3x62 powder/bullet recipes are discussed that I've not seen before.
Ron

can somebody explain the appeal of shooting pistol bullets in a 35 Whelen? Is it more fun than shooting cast in my 9,3x62? I can gear down to under 1700fps with a 270gr cast gas-checked bullet and shoot under 2" for 5-shot groups at 100yds.

Rich
DRSS

well casting bullets is fun but a 200 grain pistol bullets is fun, cheap and great for varnmits @ a high velocity. call them "prarie dog gonners"

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
can somebody explain the appeal of shooting pistol bullets in a 35 Whelen?
Rich
DRSS

Sure ... with a 7 month old in the house, time is at a premium. I buy 100 158gr pistol projectiles, load them and have a lot of fun without spending time casting etc... The pistol projectiles hit something ... they got SPLAT.
Cheers...
Con

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Simply put I've never owned a 9.3mm caliber rifle. So what do I know?

What does the 9.3 offer that the .358 doesn't in real field use? For those of you that appreciate the 9.3 caliber will you share your reasoning with me? It is just that I would like to gain an understanding. roger

Don't you own a 35-404? Rebore it to .366 and have fun!!! If one were to use SAF's or WLWC's , theoretically there shouldn't be much of a differance, if speeds are the same. 9.3x62's give better velocities than the Whelen, giving it the edge. If one were to neck the x62 case down to 35 cal ( a la Brown-Whelen IIRC) one should be able to slide the differance under your fingernail and not feel it. The 9.3 is Germany's 35. BUT like the dog mentioned, it has DG statis!!
You enjoy shooting, buy a 9.3x62 CZ & "have a blast"!

I like the 9.3x62 a smashing power without a lot of recoil, it's a fine round, I have know experience with .35 cals but for some reason the whelen does not appeal to me, I like the concept of the .350 rem mag though.

To me, for American hunting the 35s are a little more practicle. But go to africa I,ll take the .366.
The .358s in the US work like this to me.
35 remington. Great for deer and Black bear size game out to about 100, Quick handeling little marlin lever guns, reall a prety potent package when its limitations are recognized.
Step up to the .358 win and you can go out to 200 or 250 if you use a lighter bullet, and with the heavy stuff it will thump Elk but there is not much speed there so ya gotta get prety close.
Put it in a 06 case for the whelen and now you have flatted things out quite a bit. I get 2600 with a 250 grain speer with a listed load.
Really not to far behind a .338 and I,ll shoot 300 yards with confidence.
Now if you go with the .358 Norma you are in great shape for an alaskan adventure. Moose or any bear walking are well within the capabilities of a 250 grain bullet at 2850 FPS.
and if thats not enough power for ya, get your self a .358 STA and get up near 3000 with a 250 grain barnes or a partition, or if you want bigger there are 280 grain bullets out there i think !
But in africa I,ll take the tried and true bullets of .366 286 grain from say a 9.3x64 !
...tj3006

For me anyway the pistol bullets are useful for plinking and shooting in first time necked up 30-06 brass. Very safe as the pistol bullets flat don't bounce. I like the 35 calibers, in my case the 358 and now the 35 Whelen because there are many bullets available that I can load to make good 2oo yard deer loads that will expand properly and give deep penetration such as the Remington 200 grain RNCL. Then there are the 250 grain bullets like those from Hornady and Speer that will easily handle most if not all hunting in North America. The Whelen's velocities with the 250's is low enough that premium bullets are not needed but if I were by some miracle going Brown bear hunting I would load up some partitions just for that hunt.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by .366torque:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bartsche:
Don't you own a 35-404? IMP. YESRebore it to .366 and have fun!!!NO!!!

I tend to compare the 9.3x62 with a .375 H&H and in the field the killing power is equel or near equel. I cannot tell any difference on buffalo between the two.

A 320 Gr. Woodleigh at 2350 plus FPS in a 26" barrel is pretty deadly. A 286 gr. Noser at 2520 FPS is quit a good load.

Ray,
Do you compare the 9.3 to the 375H&H because of the ready access to heavy (286/296/320gr) 9.3 projectiles?? Your thoughts/feelings on a 35Whelen with Woodleigh 310gr soft/FMJ at 2200fps, legal aspects aside??

One of my bug-bears about the 35cals is that there seems to be a lack of heavier projectiles with a SD in the 0.300 range. Someone needs to bring out a bonded 275gr for it without the bells and whistles of the expensive semi-custom makers ... and then make them available in Australia But then the rifle manufacturers would have to come to the party and start fitting the proper 1:12" barrels.
Cheers...
Con

Isn't there a 310 gr .358 from Woodleigh? I know there is a 280 gr flat point cast from Mt Baldy in the US and loaded in some of my Whelens and 358 Winchesters. And there are 3 boxes of 275 gr RN from Hornady in my basement. Just make sure you have at least a 1/14" or 1/12" twist in your barrel. Slower will be a big gamble as to stabilization. Try some in the 35's if you own some. If not try the 9.3. My shoulder is pleasantly sore from 35 rounds of 9.3X74 Saturday. I like all of my medium bore guns. I have 2 358's, a Whelen, a 9.3X57, and a 9.3X74. Not full coverage for each caliber but a good representation of guns with extra power for the Norte Americano wild game. Good luck either way you decide to go. Packy

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Simply put I've never owned a 9.3mm caliber rifle. So what do I know?

What does the 9.3 offer that the .358 doesn't in real field use? For those of you that appreciate the 9.3 caliber will you share your reasoning with me? It is just that I would like to gain an understanding. roger

I have never used a 9.3 before. Mine should be delivered tomorrow but I have used a .338 Win Mag and two
Whelens through the years. All were fine rifles but all were, I thought, longer and heavier than needed. Frankly I ordered a 9.3 for the package it's coming in, that is a CZ550FS. If I had stumbled onto that rifle in .35 Whelen I'd have probably bought it. But the 9.3 does give me something new to work with which is always interesting and I must admit it's kind of neat to be the only kid on the block who has such a thing.

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Simply put I've never owned a 9.3mm caliber rifle. So what do I know?

What does the 9.3 offer that the .358 doesn't in real field use? For those of you that appreciate the 9.3 caliber will you share your reasoning with me? It is just that I would like to gain an understanding. roger

I think the 9.3 is "fun" because it is (or was) an unusual caliber. It seems to be gaining popularity now.

Anyway, check out the Taylor Knock Out Values to get an idea of where the 9.3x62 might fall in comparison with cartridges you have experience with. The 9.3x62 has two listings in each chart, with the 232 and 286 grain bullets. (Probably Norma factory loads?)
http://www.empirerifles.com/Ballistic%20Rank.htm


Good shooting,
desmobob

The 9,3x62 or the 9,3x74R truely gives "375 H&H" performance.

There are no flies on the 338,06, 358 Win, 350 Rem Mag or the 35 Whelen.

I do think the 9,3s are "Mo Betta" for Africa, but in North America the 35's are just fine.

packy,
Woodleigh does indeed make a 310gr for the 35cals. What's missing however is a 275gr from a mainstream manufacturer like your Hornadys. In Oz we're now seeing cheap 9.3cal 286gr projectiles from one manufacturer which are nothing special, but they work on large game. It's that type of projectile that's missing from the 35cal line-up ... an approx 0.3 SD projectile, standard construction that works when fired at moderate velocities. Perhaps if it existed or had of been maintained in the 35cal line-up by Hornady... the 9.3 interest would never have been raised in the USA?? Just my thoughts...
Cheers...
Con

Con,

Remington killed the 35 Whelen in the delivery room by putting a 1:14" twist in it...Ruger followed suit. Unless you are willing to build one with a ten-inch twist, you are wasting your time IMHO, looking/waiting for heavy bullets. The availability of 220-320gr bullets is what makes the 9,3x62/64 so superior in the big game fields. That and the fact that they are legal in most of Africa.

Rich
DRSS

Sometimes, and for who knows why, a 14" twist handles 275 gr.? I think the CZ FS would be a supreme gun in 9.3X62. Only thing better would be a 9.3X64 with a deep magazine for four down. I think the CZ takes three down. Although my old and sold CZ Safari would hold four 458s if memory serves. Packy

Just back from South Africa and Namibia and a party with three out of four hunters (USA based) using 9.3mms as their heavy rifle. No one was disappointed by the 9.3x62mm or 8.3x64mm performance. Most animals from Sable and Kudu to Impala and Warthog went down to a single round of 286 grain or 258 grain 9.3mm, and our PHs were happy. I cannot say much positive about our light rifle performance, but the 9.3mms were truly excellent. My only complaint is the difficulty of finding my preferred 9.3mm bullet for handloading, the RWS 258 grain H-Mantle.
LLS
Mannlicher Collector

packy,

Wisner makes an extended box for the CZ's. I have two on order for my 416 and FS 9,3x62.

Rich
DRSS

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Con,

Remington killed the 35 Whelen in the delivery room by putting a 1:14" twist in it...Ruger followed suit. Unless you are willing to build one with a ten-inch twist, you are wasting your time IMHO, looking/waiting for heavy bullets. The availability of 220-320gr bullets is what makes the 9,3x62/64 so superior in the big game fields. That and the fact that they are legal in most of Africa.

Rich
DRSS

I'll agree with almost everything you say here with one exception. Both my Remington 700 Classic and Ruger 77 in .35 Whelen have 1 in 16" twist rates to their barrel. I measured them. All I can say to that is, "What in the hell were they thinking?" My custom Mauser, also in .35 Whelen has a 1 in 14" twist. Not my prefered choice, but I got the gun for a very good price at an estate sale. Fits me so well that it might as well have been made for me.
Paul B.

Paul B,
Your not wrong ... the 1:16" barrel's perpetuate the myth that the .35s are "light" projectile rounds ie "upto 250gr". Seems to follow the "faster is better" mantra. A 1:12" in a Whelen with the old Hornady 275gr is right behind the 9.3x62 and I'd be surprised if anyone could notice the difference of a perhaps 100fps advantage to the 9.3x62.
The "fly in the ointment" of the 9.3 is better brigade would be a comparison with the 350 Rigby Magnum. A solid reputation with light 225gr projectile and ballistics achievable in a modern loaded 35Whelen. Either way ... with comparable projectiles and case capacities the 9.3 and 35 are near ballistic twins. It then becomes a personal preference whether you like a 35cal or 9.3cal.
Cheers...
Con

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
Con,

Remington killed the 35 Whelen in the delivery room by putting a 1:14" twist in it...Ruger followed suit. Unless you are willing to build one with a ten-inch twist, you are wasting your time IMHO, looking/waiting for heavy bullets. The availability of 220-320gr bullets is what makes the 9,3x62/64 so superior in the big game fields. That and the fact that they are legal in most of Africa.

Rich
DRSS

Rich,
A .35cal RN 275gr I'd be willing to bet will definately stabilise in a 1:14" twist and a 1:16". I've tested a mate's Rem700 Whelen with Woodleigh's 310gr at an estimated 2200fps and tipping only became evident at 200m. The 100m targets definately looked round. The 1:16" seems marginal for the 310gr which may be why some report it as working and others report it as not. Note that Woodleigh's 310gr FMJ is longer again ... so a 1:14" seems a minimum requirement. A 1:14" barrel on a 358Win however had no hope with the Woodleigh 310gr ... oval holes at 100m. I'm waiting to get back my Ruger 350RM for testing with Woodleigh's 310gr. With its 1:12" I'm hoping for great results.
Cheers...
Con

1:16" ouch!!! that makes it worse...

1:12 would likely have done even a 300gr jacketed bullet fine.

Somebody needs to check their CZ medium, my FS 9,3x62 holds five down and one will slide in the chamber...that's about six of those fat boys.
286fr prvi or Nosler Partitions at 2400fps.

Rich
DRSS
CZ Fan

Rich,
I see you guys can get that 286gr prvi projectile ... marketed here under the "AX" brand. Gave the 9.3 a new lease on life as suddenly there was cheap brass and projectiles from "AX" (compared to Norma, RWS etc...) and cheap rifles in the Tikka T3 and to a lesser extent the CZs.
Moderate velocity with a heavy projectile in a readily available rifle is a winning combination.
Cheers...
Con
PS: If you really love the .35s ... email Woodleigh requesting a 275gr RN!!