.300weath An old classic,No,..an more contemporary modern classic,[like the .338win] indeed Yes.
If I was after serious (factory avail.) .300mAG peformance, 300weath would be at the forefront for consideration.
In my mind its still the king...300H&H is more the queen of .300mags....

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
BTW, I know it is the "in" thing for people to bad-mouth Weatherby products, and big belted cartridge cases in general, but I find it very difficult to lay much weight in the negative opinions of people who have never owned or used even one Weatherby rifle or cartridge, or haven't even known people who did.
I'd rather trust actual experience with the subject at hand.

I dont need to own a Weatherby rifle, to form my own opinion on whether or not I want or need one...I'll never own one, and that suits me just fine. There is NOTHING I like about Weatherby rifles.
One the other hand, I could on a rifle chambered in a Weatherby cartridge, but only if it was in 257 or 375, and thats it. Never said there was anything wrong with the 300, only said I wouldnt have one.

Ah yes, Weatherby bashing at it's finest.



Ken....

quote:

Originally posted by cmfic1:

I dont need to own a Weatherby rifle, to form my own opinion on whether or not I want or need one...I'll never own one, and that suits me just fine. There is NOTHING I like about Weatherby rifles.
One the other hand, I could on a rifle chambered in a Weatherby cartridge, but only if it was in 257 or 375, and thats it. Never said there was anything wrong with the 300, only said I wouldnt have one.

I don't believe I ever said you couldn't have whatever opinion you wish, and post it too.

I just said that an opinion about Weatherbys from a person with no experience with Weatherbys, wouldn't carry a lot of weight with me.

That's my opinion, to which I have an equal right.

Have a nice day anyway.

Sorry if I came off as "bashing", or trying to make something of nothing.
Wasn't meaning too.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
BTW, I know it is the "in" thing for people to bad-mouth Weatherby products, and big belted cartridge cases in general, but I find it very difficult to lay much weight in the negative opinions of people who have never owned or used even one Weatherby rifle or cartridge, or haven't even known people who did.
I'd rather trust actual experience with the subject at hand.

Then I hope this helps:

I've owned several Weatherby rifles and won't own any more. I got rid of the ones I had as well!

quote:

Originally posted by rolltop:

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
BTW, I know it is the "in" thing for people to bad-mouth Weatherby products, and big belted cartridge cases in general, but I find it very difficult to lay much weight in the negative opinions of people who have never owned or used even one Weatherby rifle or cartridge, or haven't even known people who did.
I'd rather trust actual experience with the subject at hand.

Then I hope this helps:

I've owned several Weatherby rifles and won't own any more. I got rid of the ones I had as well!

Well, it is interesting. Especially as this thread is specifically about the .300 Wby cartridge and you earlier posted:

"I've hunted for quite a few years and know a lot offolks with a .30-06 or a .300 Win Mag and even a couple with a .300 H&H, but I've never known a man or hunted with a man that owned a .300 Weatherby."


What you could really contribute to the question at hand, would be:

1. Do you think the .300 WBY is a classic cartridge?

2. If not, "Why, specifically, not?"

3. So why did you choose to get rid of your Weatherbys? Was it the cartridge(s), or the rifles?

I'm not saying they are great rifles, but I think the .300 cartridge is an interesting one which was well proved by some very, very good hunters.

I don't mind people getting rid of or not wanting to own a Weatherby so long as they have some direct knowledge of what they speak and are not saying it just parroting something they read somewhere so people will think they are an "authority".

Me, I would probably never buy another Weatherby rifle, just because having owned half a dozen (and still owning three), I don't think the extra money is justified there in extra performance or extra quality of the rifle itself.

But, I like several of their cartridges and would still be quite amenable to using the .257 Wby, .300 Wby., .340 Wby, or the .375 Wby in appropriate circumstances after appropriate game.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:

Me, I would probably never buy another Weatherby rifle, just because having owned half a dozen (and still owning three), I don't think the extra money is justified there in extra performance or extra quality of the rifle itself.

The Wbys that are the best value are the 378 based calibres and especially the Synthetic and Fibremark and also Accumark in 30/378 and 338/378. If you started with a CZ in 416 Rigby the all up cost would be high by the time you rebarreled and got a muzzle brake fitted.

The 300 Wby I think is about the biggest of the high velocity calibres where you don't need a muzzle brake. Shooting from improvised field positions is the difficult one. The 300 is also good from the point of view of powder availability, probably more important to s shooters in Australia. But even so there are simply more powders to try than say a 300 RUM with 180 grainers or the 30/378 and 338/378.

The 300 does very well with the 4831 burn rate and 180 and also 200s but will also run at top speed with the slower burners. 300 Win won't get full powere with the slower burners and the 300 RUM and 30/378 won't get full power with the 4831 burn rate.

Actually, in some ways I regard the 300 Wby as being similar to the 375 H&H. By that I mean they are about as exotic as you can go before you start to lose practicality.

The 300 Weatherby, definitely an American classic. It represents us. It's was the biggest and the baddest for killing the beasts on our continent that needed killing and it was the undisputed champ for a long time. The rifles were glitzy and excessive and luxurious, and copied. There are many other rifle makers that were not Remington or Winchester that never get bashed or championed or even in the conversation. One guy created a line of wildcats covering the full bullet diameter spectrum and made them stick for over half a century and counting and the 300 while not the first, ended up being the cornerstone - an American Classic.

quote:

Originally posted by Quintus:
The 300 Weatherby, definitely an American classic. It represents us.

The 300 Wby and Mark V rifle has always seemed to be to be the Chev Corvette of guns.

I find in Australia shooters who are very pro American and especially with cars etc are pro Wby. The anti American is generally anti Wby.

Unless I'm looking at my own bench I don't see too many Weatherbys at the range. When I touch off my 338-378 there are suddenly alot of questions heading my way. That is with or without the brake. I for one have always liked the look of a Weatherby. The only wood stocked rifle I own is a Vanguard Stainless Sporter in 257 Wby. I do get alot of positive comments on that one as well. The Mk V action is a very high quality action (even if it's not CRF) and in general I have found Weatherby rifles to be well constructed and durable. Are most of them "overkill" for caliber, sure but so what, they work.

Ken....

Since the question of the thread was about whether the .300 Weatherby cartridge is a Classic or not, I won't go too much further with the subject of the Weatherby rifles, whether German, Japanese, or Amercian iterations of them. The earlier German ones did have lousy triggers (not talking about pull or adjusting, but about duration). They were remarked on by many of the day about how the trigger housings often actually broke and the triggers had to be replaced. I've had that happen once to one of mine. But that's neither here nor there. I liked the Weatherby rifles that were built before the Mark V very well, whether made on Mausers, Model 70's, or something else.

They did really start to popularize the concept of the very sloped Monte Carlo buttstock comb which slid away from the shooter's face instead of into it during recoil, which I think was a good thing.

I have always thought the Mark V action too heavy and too large for most of even the Weatherby series of cartridges, let alone for non-magnum cartridges, but of course for the bigger cases, such as the .378, .416, and .460 Weatherbys, they are just the ticket.

Back to the cartridges, at last. I have always really liked Roy's cartridges, and currently still have three of them, interestingly enough, on three different makes of actions.

My .257 Weatherby is on a Mark V action, and though a bit heavy, is a very able antelope gun...one which I take in preference to a number of others (including a pair of .25-06's, a pair of .257 Roberts, etc., etc.) when I am lucky enough to draw a tag.

My 7 m/m Weatherby is on a Remington 700 BDL action, is very light, and makes a very good performing mule deer gun.

And, of course there is my pre-war Model 70 which Mr.Weatherby rechambered in 1948, and with which I have killed a 3/4-ton pickup bed (or five of them) of game over the years. All those cartridges served their purposes.

Overkill? I don't think so. I LIKE the game to die "tuite a suite".

Also, back in the late 40's, early 50's, clear up into the 60's, the various Weatherbys performed really well with the powders most Americans originally bought for other guns...like 4350, 4831, and a bit later, 7828, W-785-BR, and Norma 205. In particular, the .300 Weatherby made good use of both 4350 and 4831, and taught many of us that there was a world beyond the .30-06 and even the Super .30 realms.

So, on reflection after several days of this thread, I think I would agree that whether or not the .300 Wby is a classic world wide, I don't know..........

........But it IS an "American Classic", just as much as a T-Bucket with a 3/8-square Ford AB block, Offy heads, triple downdraft Stromberg 97s, and chromed headers, 3/4 Isky cam, and a blonde cheerleader in the right seat.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:

........But it IS an "American Classic", just as much as a T-Bucket with a 3/8-square Ford AB block, Offy heads, triple downdraft Stromberg 97s, and chromed headers, 3/4 Isky cam, and a blonde cheerleader in the right seat.

Around 1973 I made my first overseas phone call and it was to Roy Weatherby. I wanted a 460 and the Wby agent in Australia at the time (Michaelis Bayley) suggested I should phone to get it going.

Roy requested that a letter be sent and that was done and he sent back a letter. The Weatherby stationary to my mind was pure American.

And a pair of 460s came

The Made in Japan was always a sore for me because Wby was so American.

Over the years rifles and pictures of rifles I have shown to non shooters have always resulted in them accurately picking which one is American. The Mark V just looks American.

The best Wby is the Custom Shop and phone Dean. It can be very pricey but the gear is good and the service is unreal. A fibreglass gun will end up costing a fair bit more than a HS Precision rifle but even though the Australian agent for Wby is also the agent for HS Precision, Wby is my choice.

As Heat posted above, when you take a Wby somewhere it lights up everyone. For some reason forumites and especially American forumites are different to people you meet in the bush or at the range.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
........But it IS an "American Classic", just as much as a T-Bucket with a 3/8-square Ford AB block, Offy heads, triple downdraft Stromberg 97s, and chromed headers, 3/4 Isky cam, and a blonde cheerleader in the right seat.

PS. I reckon the 30-378 and 378 are the gun world's version of a Sprint Car....World of Outlaws

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:

quote:

Originally posted by Quintus:
The 300 Weatherby, definitely an American classic. It represents us.

The 300 Wby and Mark V rifle has always seemed to be to be the Chev Corvette of guns.

I find in Australia shooters who are very pro American and especially with cars etc are pro Wby. The anti American is generally anti Wby.

Thats about right..
.300 Weath = corvette
.30-378 = Dodge Viper
7.82 Lazzaroni = Topfuel
45-70 = Trans Am...hahaha
30-30 = pick-up truck
.270win = Z28 SS
.458win = Impala
30-06 = Caprice Classic
?? = Stude Baker

Weatherby rifles were too expensive, and the cartridges were double to triple the cost of "standard" rounds.

Which is why I never purchased a Weatherby.

Even though I don't own one, and have no desire to shoot magnums, Roy Weatherby desires credit for developing a series of successful magnum cartridges.

I guess 50 years hence, they are old enough to be considered “Classics”.

Still, I’ll stick to my 6.5 Swedes, 308 Win’s and 30-06’s.

These will more than cover the game around Northern Alabama. A hunting club trophy Buck was 180 pounds, an average deer is around 100 pounds.

Mine certainly is. It's a Weatherby Deluxe FN action with a 4 digit serial number made at the South Gate facility in the late 50's.

I was 16 and after growing up with a M94 30-30 and a "sporterized" Springfield 03 I developed the dream of owning a 300 Weatherby. So I saved my money and when I had enough my Dad took me to the South Gate store. The news that a 16 year old was in the store looking to buy a 300 was enough to bring old man Weatherby out from the office to see for himself. The Mark V action had just hit the market and I quickly discovered I could not afford one. But there were still a few FN's around. Mr. Weatherby eventually made me a great deal on a "second" off the floor rack (it had some flaws in the wood to metal fit and stock finish) that I have since hunted with throughout NA and Africa.

It's my classic. I'll be buried with it.

The .300 Weatherby is a pure solid gold mainstream classic

quote:

Originally posted by cmfic1:

quote:

Originally posted by DavidReed:
It still is one of the, if not the benchmark "magnum" cartridges.

No harm, but what makes you say this?

cmfic1,

No harm taken.

It may not be as classic (are there varying degrees of classic??) as the .300 H&H or .375 H&H as belted magnums go but neither is any other belted mag. Keep in mind when H&H introduced their .30 Super it was to replicate .30-06 ballistics at lower pressure, not to achieve maximum velocity. Roy Weatherby and his .300 woke shooters of the era up to what was possible.

As an example look how many other high velocity .30 caliber cartridges are compared to the Weatherby. When Remington introduced the .300 RUM they directly compared it to the .300 Wby - 55 years later! Same for the the .300 Dakota and inevitably Weatherby used it as the basis of comparison when they commercialized the .30-378. I think that John Lazzeroni's goal was to better the performance of the Weatherby magnums.

For me it represents the best all around magnum hunting cartridge that will fit in a sized standard action and function in that action well without the need for major modifications. Standard sized meaning M-98/M70. In a properly set up rifle it feeds well which is something I've never been impressed with regarding the Ultra mags.

It also will do an honest 3250 fps with 180 grain bullets if such things matter to you. Every lot of factory ammo I've chronographed has been right there as well as most of my handloads.

A lot of misinformation has been posted here.

Too expensive? What about the Weatherby Vanguard? Under $500 and it comes with an accuracy guarantee.

Mk V action too heavy? What about my Weatherby UltraLightweight? 6 3/4 pounds with a 26" barrel?

The .300 Weatherby is a REAL classic. What else will take down Kodiak Bear in the brush as well as Pronghorns at 400 yards? In the 1950s it regularly took down Elephant and Cape Buffalo too, until African governments decreed .375 as a minimum.

About the .300 H&H. It's neat because it's so easy to ream out to .300 Weatherby. Hunters used to buy cut-rate Remington 721s in .300 H&H and convert them to Weatherby before even shooting them.

I hunt big game with a .300 Weatherby exclusively, except where heavier calibers are required by law. It's killed everything from whitetail-sized game to a 5500 pound bull hippo. It's got 14 one-shot kills so far. It shoots 1.0 MOA and delivers 4,000 foot pounds. Trajectory with 180 grain bullets is point blank past 300 yards.

Now that's a classic.

quote:

Originally posted by Indy:
"What else will take down Kodiak Bear in the brush as well as Pronghorns at 400 yards?"

" It's killed everything from whitetail-sized game to a 5500 pound bull hippo

In regards to the 1st quote, UM...lots of different cartridges can will & do.

In regards to your 2nd post, UM...lots of different cartridges do too.

I personally would handidly take a 338 WM over your 300 bee, any time, any day & anywhere.

quote:

Originally posted by cmfic1:
I personally would handidly take a 338 WM over your 300 bee, any time, any day & anywhere.

Rod,

As you know the 300 magnums dominate the various magnum calibres and I think with good reason.

The 338 bore will obvioulsy be better for very big game and the 375 bore will be better again. However, most shooters will shoot very few very big animals. One only has to read the African forum on this site to see that a calibre is unlikely show its superiority on one or two kills. You have a buffal going down with one shot from a 375 and another bullafo taking several shots from a 458 Lott. Of course if someone shot 20 buffalo with the 375 and 458 Lott then the superiority of the 458 Lott would show through.

However, smaller animals are where most kills are made and the 300 magnum is better in this area. It does not give up any trajectory to the smaller calibres. For a 338 bore to equal the same velocity with equal sectional density bullets as the 300 Wby/300 RUM then the 338 will need to be a 338/378.

If you came to Australia and shot pigs and goats the way Americans shoot woodchucks (or is rockchukcs?) then 338 would not match the 300 magnums and the 300s would always be better at longer range.

I have my Father's Ruger No1 that he had chambered for the .300 Wthby from Win mag. It was his favorite rifle and he killed several elk a long range with it. One at 500yds, and dropped her like a brick.

I think it's a classic. It is too me anyway, and I love it's performance. Strikes a nice balance between flat trajectory and enough bullet weight to produce serious energy.

I went from 300wby to 338win,... always wished id got a 340wby instead of the 300wby.
...but that dont matter, you can launch a 200gshv[338win] well in excess of 3100mv, and it will smash large game as good as or better than a 300wby200gn cupcore of the same speed..and for less recoil...monmetals dont have to follow the same SD rules as cupcores.
If you wanted to run a 300wby200tsx, the fast twist required could cause stability problems with the lighter cupcores.
the 300wby may be better if you want to varmint with it,...but i can find sweeter lighter fasT/flat shooting rounds to use for that....Just remember that bullets of equal BC & speed, have the same trajectories & drift, regardless of cal.
A 300wby177gnGSHv [BC.638] offers about the best most versatile close and long range performance you ever likely to achieve from that chambering.
Ie; best retained numbers for LR work, and tough mono contruction if you have to slam something nasty coming your way at 30yds with 3250fps.

I wish I was surprised at all the debate over whether a .338 is a "better" cartridge than the .300 Weatherby for sheer killing power.

Anyway that wasn't the question. The question was 'Is the .300 Weatherby a Classic?' I believe it is an "American Classic".

I also believe the 7x57 Mauser is a classic, though I can think of any number of cartridges which in some way or the other outclass it ballistically...like the .280 Remington for instance. But I don't think the .280 is a "Classic", while almost everyone agrees the 7x57 is.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
I wish I was surprised at all the debate over whether a .338 is a "better" cartridge than the .300 Weatherby for sheer killing power.

I never claimed the 338 to be better at "sheer killing power", I only said "I" would rather use it, never said anywhere that "everyone" should! I would prefer a 210gr .338cal to a 200gr .308 all day long, no matter what I was hunting.

And Mike, I DO live in "Big game" country, I likely shoot just as many Elk/Moose/Bear as I do deer. To each there own, of the 10 or so (small-medium / Deer-Elk/Moose) rifles I have from 270 up to 338, I choose to carry my 338 more than all others combined, including my 300 WM, and even if I had the mighty 300 bee in the locker

Sorry to borrow a thread, but I personally still don't think the the 300 bee to be a classic........luckily I think I'm still entitled to my own opinion!

quote:

Originally posted by cmfic1:

I personally still don't think the the 300 bee to be a classic

Okay, so as part of the discussion related to the subject of this thread, are you willing to share with us all why you think the .300 WBY is NOT a classic?

Surely it can't just be solely because you would personally rather carry a .338, can it?

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:

Okay, so as part of the discussion related to the subject of this thread, are you willing to share with us all why you think the .300 WBY is NOT a classic?

I think you have asked a very difficult question.

The only important "classic" is an old wife.

Amazed how people turn rifles into children's hobbies with their admiration and sentiments.

Take your rifle, go kill something, freeze it, eat it and put the rifle away.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:

Okay, so as part of the discussion related to the subject of this thread, are you willing to share with us all why you think the .300 WBY is NOT a classic?

I think you have asked a very difficult question.

Not a very hard question at all. Simply put, IMO a classic starts with popularity and ends with age. Sure the bee has been around awhile, but its not(or wasnt) as popular as other 300's. As I sated in an earlier post, in 11 yrs of guiding in AB, BC & the Yukon, I think I have seen one 300 Weatherby in all them camps, and without question the most popular chambering across the board was the 300 Win Mag. and no I dont think the Win mag is a classic either.....YET!

From reading these posts, it supports my opinion that it's pretty hard to determine if something is a classic without defined parameters. Without them, it's too subjective. For example BATFE defines a firearm as a relic when it's 50 years old. That's kind of broad, but it's still a definition. Any ideas?

Lou

Absolutely! One only needs to read Elgin Gates' "Trophy Hunter in Asia" and you will be convinced. I have shot one quite a bit in various places and it is extremely deadly. Oh, and of course I shoot a 300 H&H also.

I have never owned or even ridden in a Corvette, or a '57 Chevy. But they are considered my many (myself included) as classics.

When I started hunting big game in the late 60's I would get the annual Weatherby Guide and spend countless hours reading about the big game hunters of the world, like Elgin Gates, with their Weatherby rifles. And the cartridge that started it all was the .300 Weatherby.

Just like a Corvette or '57 Chevy, it makes no difference if I had one or not, the .300 Weatherby is definately a classic.

Well, remington chambered the 300wby in their model 700 classic. That makes it a classic.
Just about all the major arms makers have chambered the 300 wby. For many years.
Federal, Winchester,Remington, Norma all load the 300 wby.
It's killed everything that walks, and.....you gotta be a real man to shoot it well.
Definately a classic mans cartridge.
Mike73

quote:

Originally posted by Mike73:
Well, remington chambered the 300wby in their model 700 classic. That makes it a classic.
Just about all the major arms makers have chambered the 300 wby. For many years.
Federal, Winchester,Remington, Norma all load the 300 wby.
Mike73

Used to is the key word here....Look how many still make ammo & chamber rifles in the Win Mag. I dont class the Win Mag as a classic YET.
What I've been saying all along, to me it isnt age that makes one a classic its a combination of things, with popularity then age being two of them.
I'd have one, only if they discontinued the Win Mag & the H+H

old, yes
nostalgic, sure
classic? well, it meets several of the definitions
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/classic

its a standard, its fundamental, and its proven

its a cool round, sure enough, and definitive ... just not for everyone .. and certaily the weatherby rifle styling is different ... but some folks really like different.

me, I like the 257 w !

quote:

Originally posted by cmfic1:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike73:
Well, remington chambered the 300wby in their model 700 classic. That makes it a classic.
Just about all the major arms makers have chambered the 300 wby. For many years.
Federal, Winchester,Remington, Norma all load the 300 wby.
Mike73

Used to is the key word here....Look how many still make ammo & chamber rifles in the Win Mag. I dont class the Win Mag as a classic YET.
What I've been saying all along, to me it isnt age that makes one a classic its a combination of things, with popularity then age being two of them.
I'd have one, only if they discontinued the Win Mag & the H+H

Who said anything about "Used to"? Are you imagining things?
Just about everyone chambers, and produces ammo for the 300 wby. STILL
I have owned many of both the win mag and the wby mag, and I still own both. I'm very fond of both of them.
now the 6mm rem, and the 8mm remington are "flashes in the pan". 225 win, gone with the wind. 264 win mag, a has been. even the ole 25 bob is all but gone. 350 rem mag, junk too.
However the 300wby has staying power. It's been around for over half a century, and it'll be around and killing long after i'm dead.
Mike73

Oops, I guess used to might have been a bad choice of words, I mis-read the post.

I guess "have" may have been better.......Who chambers the 300 Weatherby now?

quote:

Originally posted by cmfic1:
Oops, I guess used to might have been a bad choice of words, I mis-read the post.

I guess "have" may have been better.......Who chambers the 300 Weatherby now?

Sauer and Blaser.

And which major makers chamber 404 Jeffery. What about 7 X 57. Which major makers chamber 300 H&H. If we were having this discussion about 1990 where would the 416 Rigby be.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike McGuire:

quote:

Originally posted by cmfic1:
Oops, I guess used to might have been a bad choice of words, I mis-read the post.

I guess "have" may have been better.......Who chambers the 300 Weatherby now?

Sauer and Blaser.

And which major makers chamber 404 Jeffery. What about 7 X 57. Which major makers chamber 300 H&H. If we were having this discussion about 1990 where would the 416 Rigby be.

"Sauer & Blaser'...........'nuff said

Not sure about the Rigby in 1990, but I do know there aint many that wouldnt say the RIgby IS a classic.

Mike, it dont matter what I view the 300 bee as, if you like it and think it a classic, kool

If folks always agreed on all this sorta thing, what would be the sense of having these boards?

Thanks for the discussion