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One of Us |
I'd bet plenty that not a single soul here that has posted that the buyer should get the gun at the price of $0.01 would sell his own for that price should the same circumstances happened to him..... /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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One of Us |
In the theoretical world of ethics you should send it to him for a penny. In the real world you shouldn't. Situations like this are why there are reserves and shills. I used to work for Dad as a hailer at his auctions. The client would usually have someone out in the crowd to bid things up to a certain minimum; that's a way to get around "no reserve pricing". Even if the shill was the high bidder, we still got our 10% on his bid. Caleb | |||
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One of Us |
Send the guy a penny and then post that you refunded his money.... 30+ years experience tells me that perfection hit at .264. Others are adequate but anything before or after is wishful thinking. | |||
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| One of Us |
First off, I would have contacted Gunbroker RIGHT AWAY, knowing that it was an error. Second, and I hate to be rude, but WHY THE HELL DID YOU LIST IT FOR .01. WTF did you expect. I have been one of those "LURKERS", but here is how it works, If you see something that you like and you kind of think you want it, but won't go back and rebid 100 times, you can put in a max bid of say $450 for the said gun. In reality I just bid up to $450 for your gun, but you know what, Gunbroker just pt my bid as .01. Myself, I would not be on this forum proclaioming my stupidity and bitching about someone else's morals, when I was the one that fucked up. Had you emailed Gunbroker right away, not waiting until someone bid a penny, I would have some sympathy for you. | |||
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| One of Us |
I have often listed guns with no reserve at at 1 penny to open and run the auction for 10 days to 2 weeks. It has been my experience that often times all the action is in the last few minutes. I have no been hurt to bad on any auction and frequently got more than I thought. Also if he was the first bidder he could have bid hundreds but it will only show the min amount to win, it would take a second bidder to raise it above the opening amount. Ken DRSS, PP Chapter Life NRA Life SCI Life DSC | |||
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One of Us |
kebco, You are right, about all you said. I figured that out after closing the listing. However, within an hour of the listing he bid on both ads, the one I closed and the one left to run its course. I found out through his email that he bid the minimum on both. The next day, the one I closed still had only one bid when I closed it, and the one I left open had three or four bids, which put him out of the running. KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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One of Us |
Situational ethics? You should have let the auction run and seen what it went for. Go look up "locust fork" on GB. She lists ALL her auctions at .01 and no reserve. ALL of them! Excellent seller with excellent feedback! She has lost money a few times but stood by her word anyway. Starting bid: minimum you will take. No reserve: alot of people will not even look at a "reserve" auction. Lastly, if you visit the GD forum over there, you will see that many sellers plug their auctions to get more visibility and more bidders. Post up and provide a link to your acutions. Hope this helps. US Army 1977-1998 | |||
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| One of Us |
I had been having high satisfaction out of my dealings on GB, both buying and selling, until I pulled this stunt. Can't remember running into a bad apple. I know some seem to have good luck with penny auctions, no reserve, but I don't do that many transactions, and I don't have the nerve for it, as I discovered. Hopefully this will all pass, and I'll just do it the way I've had success with. I don't like reserve auctions either, and don't run my ads that way. I sometimes will bid on a reserve auction, but mostly I ignore them. Besides, if the ad has a minimum starting bid, which if it sells for that it's OK, then that weeds out a lot of bids and bidders that would just be unacceptable anyway. Also, the reasonable minimum bid apparantly seperates out a certain class of bidder, who are most likely to cause problems. The way I see it now, it helps to keep deals where mostly good faith bidders are participants. I think there is a theory of a bidding frenzy, but I don't believe it's valid, and if it is, the best place for it to exist is at the top end anyway. KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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one of us |
You already broke ethics by ending the auction early. Ending auctions early is a no no and you deserve the negative feedback for that. Especially if you ended it on the last day. Do I think you should send the rifle for a penny? No. I believe the auction failed (your fault for ending the auction early). If he sent you a penny then send it back. ----- Since you say you have done many auctions before I am surprised you did not wait it out. Most of the bids I have ever got come in the last hour of the auction. Many times in the last minutes. Personally I wont make a starting bid less than I am willing to accept. -------------------- THANOS WAS RIGHT! | |||
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| One of Us |
I saw it as my exclusive and unilateral prerogative to end the auction early, regardless of what anyone else thinks, including GB. I still think that, but now I know how to avoid getting into that situation again. He didn't give negative feed back for ending the auction early, he gave it because I didn't sell him the rifle for a penny. I didn't end it the last day. There were close to six days left on a seven day auction. Now I do think it would have worked out alright if I had just left it alone to run its course. In the future I won't do auctions with a starting price less than acceptable. KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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| one of us |
I don't see how something so simple can turn into a huge discussion with 49 replies. It a lousy policy by Gunbroker, plain and simple. Ebay rules are that if you end an auction with over 12 hours left, it is the sellers option to cancel all bids or sell to the highest | |||
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| one of us |
The auction rules clearly state an auction cannot be ended early once a bid is made. But that is the only rule I see you breaking. If I was the one cent bidder on your auction I would be pissed too. I would leave negative feedback for the rule breakage (maybe not, I am too nice) but I would not expect to get the rifle for a cent unless the action went the full duration. -------------------- THANOS WAS RIGHT! | |||
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| One of Us |
We're talking ethics here.....If I was the bidder at $.01 and (supposedly) won the auction, I'd email the seller and explain that I didn't actually expect him to sell at that price....that something wasn't right with that deal..... Ethics is a two way street.... /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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| One of Us |
Your first mistake was selling the gun for 1 penny. Your second mistake was wondering if not living up to your responsibility was ethical, and the last mistake was posting on the internet that your did the above. I've learned lessons that cost more that $500. Oh and all those things you were saying about the winner of the bid, he is saying the same things about you. And from a legal and ethical standpoint he is standing on more solid ground. "Behavior rewarded is behavior continued." would that be your behavior of making a mistake and blaming others. But like others have said, forget about it no one was hurt right? I mean he is a "chit head" SOB, Penny lurker. I don't know you I'm sure you are a great person but refer to mistake # 3 in first paragraph. | |||
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| One of Us |
Yea, I know what you mean S B. I thought it was a worthy topic, and realized by posting that I'm making myself vulnerable to criticism. It's OK. That's why I'm not jumping on anyone who criticises. At least not much.  I asked for it. I don't think of posting here as a mistake, at least not yet.There are a lot of topics discussed here, and the best ones come from personal experience. I learned something that I figured others might find interesting and it may save them from making the same mistake. Hey, I don't plan on this path again, so it's talk about it now while it's fresh, and move on. Later, it won't matter. Instead of it being all a bad memory, I get to talk it out a bit. Regards, KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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| One of Us |
i love this thread, you probly shoulda bid full price on your own gun, then started over . heres why im gettin in on this , i have a brother who is the kind of dickh--- that would do stuff like bid a penny ,in his way of thinking he knows that there is always a chance of him gettin the bid an maybe its some guys wife thats pissed off and is getting back at him , or some other oddity.. he dosnt want the gun unless he can steal it and he will waste your time just to check it out and hope his boat came in. any place you can just push a button there is going to be the same kind of mistakes and plenty of them, if you had to sign in front of witnesses or were an experienced auctioneer then the story would be different. imsure the the law would be on your side if you knew how to look up the statutes. i surprised how many think you owe this dick---- scammer a gun. anybody who puts in penny bids and plays this game is a dick, lurker just dosnt get the point across. somebody didnt try to buy the gun from you they tried to scam you If your gonna be dumb, you gotta be tuff. | |||
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| One of Us |
I certainly would have. Education can be costly at times. Ever heard this: "Honor much like a broken cup can be repaired but the world will always remember where the crack was."
PA Bear Hunter, NRA Benefactor | |||
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| one of us |
I learned a long time ago to post the price you want to sell it for and be very up front about shipping ect. A while back a fellow tried to sell a varmit call here he was asking 300 or best offer. I make the best offer at 225. That offer stood for 3 weeks. When I called his buff I guess that what you would call his posting of best offer was. He wouldn't sell it for 225. Moral of the story is don't put thingsj in your for sale adds your not willing to live up to other wise you end up with egg on your face. If you were having a live aution and that was the best bid and you had no minumin you would hav lost your rifle for 1 penny. I have brought some good stuff cheap at autions because there was no one else there who knew what it was worth. Should I have payed more because I knew the value. Be carefull when you sell and be up front I sold a item shipping paid lost money on that the shipping was more then the cost of the item did I back out of the deal no I took the lost and learn a valueble lesson. | |||
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| One of Us |
Talk is cheap. The ethical thing is for the (supposed) buyer to also refuse the deal......we seem to have a bunch of "one way" ethics folks here! /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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one of us |
Although the OP's scenario is a fairly common one in the world of ethical dilemmas, these particular set of facts will make a great discussion question in the Applied Ethics class I teach. The names will be changed to protect innocent, or not so innocent depending how you want to look at it. lol **************** NRA Life Benefactor Member | |||
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One of Us |
That of course would be called shill bidding and isn't allowed though it's a game sellers play often enough. There was a guy at the airport trying to sell a Cessna 172 for $40,000 which was much more than the plane was worth. Then he put the plane on eBay and, thinking he wouldn't get enough for the plane, started bidding on his own airplane. Well, he ended up buying his own airplane on eBay and no doubt had to pay the applicable auction fees. He then put the plane on eBay again and ended up selling his plane for less than he would have gotten if he had just let the original auction run its course. | |||
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| One of Us |
Lets be clear on something. You don't know the guy only bid $.01 The $.01 Bid just reflects the fact that there was only one bid. He may have bid $500.00 for all you know. If you had put in a reserve, and his bid was below your reserve, then the actual amount of his bid would show. As a bidder I hate sellers that play games. Sellers who start an aution at .01 and then have a large reserve are just wasting everyone's time. If you have a minimum price, state it up front, or don't bother. The only thing worse, is the sellers that start an item at a low price, and then cancel it because it's not getting close to their secret reserve soon enough. Often times when bidding I will put in a low price to begin with. Not because I expect to pay that, but because I want to insure the auction will still stay open, but not reveal my top price until a later time. It's a common strategy, and it's also why so much of the bidding happens in the last hour of an auction. Perhaps a better option would of been for you to post a link, or mention you auction here on AR. Many of us respect sellers who post .01 no reserve auctions. When I see these auctions I make a point to bid. I respect the guy who are willing to put in on the line this way, so it's my way of supporting them. In any event I think you learned your lesson, and don't expect you to post any more low price, no reserve auctions. BTW how much time was left in the aution when you canceled it? | |||
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| One of Us |
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| One of Us |
The guys that say he is obligated to sell an item for an obviously mistaken price are on a slippery logic and ethical slope. I'll give an example of something that happened to me. When I was ten years old, I went to a sporting goods store to buy a Fenwick fishing pole. I had saved my money because I knew the pole I wanted was about $80. That day I noticed that one of the poles had a pricing sticker for $12. This obviously was a mistake, but in my zeal I took it to the cash register and tried to buy it. The owner of the store saw the obvious mistake and told me the correct price if I wanted to buy it. I was ashamed that I had tried to rip off the store owner. After I had woken up to my ethical lapse, I realized that in no way should I be able to buy it for $12. At age ten, I learned a valuable lesson that day. Apparently many of the people on this board never learned that lesson. No reasonable person could think the store owner meant to sell that pole for $12. In an even more obvious pricing error, absolutely no one would think the gun could reasonably be priced for $.01. One needs to suspend common sense and logic in order to effectively steal a rifle for $.01. Do any of the guys who think he should have sold the rifle, think the store owner should have sold the pole to me for the marked price? | |||
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| Moderator |
That is, in effect, shill bidding, and no respectable auction house would permit it. By his own (eventual) admission, Kabluewy screwed up. The buyer tried to get the gun for a penny and failed; he left negative feedback and that should have been the end of it. At the point the buyer begins harassing the seller, he has crossed the line. Kabluewy should file a complaint with GB and move on. George  | |||
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| One of Us |
In this particular case duckboat you are incorrect. When he posted that price, he was legally obligated to sell it to you at that price. What the shop keeper did is called false advertising, and failing to sell the advertised price can hold both civil and criminal implications. Duck, unilateral mistake does not invalidate a contract, it required a bilateral mistake, a mistake by both parties, to invalidate. KB, I'm sure that if you let the auction run, it wouldn't have stayed at .01. In any event, I hope you have a successful auction, let us know how the repost turns out. | |||
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One of Us |
If you know him...ask the same question of the fellow trying to swindle ownership of a rifle for $0.01!  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| One of Us |
And here goes the ocean fron tproperty in Arizona again! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| One of Us |
Antelope sniper, I highly doubt you have much knowledge about the law and should not pretend to understand legal obligation. An obvious unilateral mistake, and there are many examples, most surely does not obligate the seller to sell at the clearly mistaken price. You are also incorrect in your understanding of false advertising. For the shop owner to be obligated to sell at the crazy price, there would have to be some intention or pattern of behavior behind the wrong price. Putting aside the lack of legal obligation, there is no ethical sense in selling a gun for a obviously mistaken price of .01. In addition, there is a ethical obligation on the buyers part not to try to steal. | |||
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| One of Us |
Again...the buyer's ethics need to be looked at here. Not so much that he bid...nothing wrong with that. The fact that he threatened when the seller said he made a mistke. I for one think that is unethical.  ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| One of Us |
 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| One of Us |
But...it is a fact in probably every auction that has been held in the history of auctions! ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| One of Us |
Absolutley fascinating range of responses. | |||
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| one of us |
It is an interesting discussion. Strictly from my point of view, YES, I would have sold him the gun for $.01 if that is what the FINAL bid was. My wife and I own a business. Our total business is based on integrity and ethics. In 20 years we have NEVER had to advertise or solicit business because the word of mouth provides more business than we can handle because of our lack of compromise on our ethics. My word is my bond, always. Sure, I have screwed up, and for a lot more than a paultry $500. But it is MY screwup. As for the folks talking about this being a two way street, I would agree, if I was on the buyer's side and I would handle it appropriately. But what I have heard is what I think is mostly wrong with the present generation, which is, "you acted like a dickhead, so I can be a bigger one because you started it." It goes to trash talking on sports arenas as well. I don't care what "his" ethics are, MINE are not for sale for $500. Larry "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading" -- Thomas Jefferson | |||
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| One of Us |
Unless your business is selling integrity and/or ethics, it's likely that your business is based on selling goods and/or services, tangible or intangible. Integrity and ethics in business involves a whole lot more than merely occasionally letting a customer beat you out of something, or being righteous about your own Christian values. As a matter of fact, it is entirely reasonable to imagine, or actually encounter, a situation where integrity and ethics are in a quandry, paradoxical, where one is not entirely satisfied, at the benefit or expense of the other. In other words, integrity and ethics are not necessarily parallel virtues. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intangible_good http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What...e_goods_and_services http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_ethics KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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| one of us |
No customer ever "beat me out of" anything. And no one said anything about Christian. I just said they were mine and not for sale. Your mileage may vary, obviously. That's why you started the post. Larry "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading" -- Thomas Jefferson | |||
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| One of Us |
So your comment was hypothetical? Ezekiel 23:20 KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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| one of us |
No. I have screwed up and learned from it. That's all. And for my signature line, I could have quoted a lot of places, I just liked that one, for now. And since that is the old testament, it could be any of three or four, if at all. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_testament Larry "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading" -- Thomas Jefferson | |||
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| One of Us |
I too own and run a business with only word-of-mouth advertizing. My word is my code as well. I do what I say and say what I do and like you...can afford and do at times eat $500. And...as you have said...it is a problem with the younger folks. But...not all can afford. And...I see fault on both sides. Like I said before...the buyer was NOT hurt in the deal and the seller told him he made a mistake. It should have ended there. The seller got his hand-slap with negative feedback...punishment enough in this deal. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ J. Lane Easter, DVM A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991. | |||
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| one of us |
ledvm, I agree completely. I also see issues with both sides, and as I said, I would have handled both differently depending on which side I was on. All I can control is what I would do, and that is what I stated. Larry "Peace is that brief glorious moment in history, when everybody stands around reloading" -- Thomas Jefferson | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Ethical Quandary re auction listing
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