I know this has either been hashed out before or at least discussed, but I am simply curious as to why so many folks seem enamored with shorter barreled rifles?

I obviously can only speak for myself but short barreled rifles do have their place in certain circumstances. On a horse or atv they're nice for example.

I guess the question is how short is short? For me I don't want anything shorter than 20 inches and then only in the right caliber. The ever popular .30-30 carbine comes to mind. I once had a twenty inch barreled .30-06 and while it was light and handy it also had a fair amount of muzzle blast. Too much for my tastes. The same rifle with a 22 inch barrel that I have now is much better.

I for one don't like guns too short or too long. Generally 22 to 24 inches feels right to me. If weight savings is the goal then a lighter barrel contour can make up for the weight savings of a shorter tube. I do think some magnums need to be longer, my .300 Weatherby is best with its 26 inch barrel.

Like most things everybody has their own preference, for me its in between as far as barrel length goes.

I hunted with a BDL in 270 for four decades. It has 22" barrel just seemed right. Got 3000 fps with 150g Partitions out of it, incredibly accurate to this day. I have a 24" barrel on my 500 Jeffery. It seems right also. 26" just a bit too long for my taste. I like to still hunt in the dark timber as well sit on a hillside and wait.

I think the number one reason is portability, in hunting rifles. Beyond that, a shorter barrel will tend to be stiffer and vibrate less than a longer barrel, thus making it easier to find accuracy nodes. When using iron sights, longer barrels can seem more accurate because the sight radius is longer. In 100 to 200 yard benchrest competition, for example, barrels tent be short and heavy. Usually just long enough to efficiently burn all the propelent from their small cases, while pushing their relatively light and low B.C. bullets just fast enough to buck the wind at relatively short ranges. As ranges in target competitions get longer, barrels get longer mostly because cases get bigger, and more barrel length is needed to burn more propellant and help the high B.C. bulles attain a launch velocity fast enough to ensure that the bullet will remain stable all the way to the target. That's all simplified a bit, but that's it in a nutshell.

Noise or muzzle blast depends upon four variables: barrel length, expansion ratio of the cartridge, bullet weight and powder burning speed. My short barreled rifles for the most part use cartridges with high expansion ratios, heavy bullets and fast burning powders. I first got started with short barrels in the early 1960's, when I had a M1917 Enfield converted to .35 Brown Improved Whelen, with an 20" barrel in a full length Mannlicher style stock. The short barrel was a weight saving measure, but I grew to like its handiness and the way it swung. It was followed by a short barreled .458 Winchester Magnum, a .505 wildcat of my own design and a 7X57 I had made up on a G33/40 action for my then girl friend to use on a hunting trip to Africa. She never used it, but I did, and it remains one of my favorites.

When I say short barrel, I mean 22". The few rifles I have with even shorter barrels are Mannlicher Schoenauer full stock carbines in calibers (6,5X54 M/S, 7X57, 9X56 M/S, 9.3X62) which are not ear splitters. I use heavy bullets in all of them (160gr. for the 6.5, 173 gr. for the 7X57, 250 gr. for the 9X56, and 286gr. for the 9.3X62).

My ear splitting calibers (.256 Newton, .270 Winchester, 7X64, 7X75, 7mm Remington Magnum, .300 Winchester Magnum) all have at least 24" barrels.

I wear ear protection with all my rifles, but my years on the rifle range as a competitive shooter in the days before adequate ear protection have left me severely hearing impaired. Fortunately, with hearing aids I am able to hear pretty much normally. At the end of my competitive career I was using both ear plugs and muffs, primarily against the noise from adjacent positions.

When rifle people use terms like "handy" and "quick" they're describing something about which shotgunners are generally more savvy. That thing is moment of inertia. There are various ways of measuring and expressing MOI. Stuff like half-swing radius, etc. A fellow who posts mostly on doublegunshop even has a database and measuring device. Shotgun people quickly appreciate why a 30" Purdey game gun may be quicker than a 24" Stagecoach special. Or why most 28" Win M-12s just "feel" better and are "faster" to point a grouse vs a Mossberg with 24". As a ME grouse/WC hunter I assure you quick and accurate shooting can be done from the thickest, nastiest stuff with 28" bbl repeaters and 30" bbl doubles.

Now let's move to rifles. Rifle people care about accuracy so bbl thickness is not so negatively perceived, as on that Mossberg. There is no reason in the world riflemakers cannot make thin barrels to make rifles feel like Purdey game guns. They just don't do it, mostly.

Because mass producers don't offer many long thin barrel rifles there thus remains appeal among woods hunters for a rifle with "fast" "handy" characteristics. And so factory bbls get shortened and Ruger Guide Guns get purchased.

Nothing new under the sun, as Solomon said. Was looking at Madis the other day and had to chuckle looking at the way short bbl rifle/carbine trends ebb and flow through time. No right or wrong to it, just means the perfect "handy" rifle is out there somewhere.

i like rifles.. 18-22" rifles handle better in the brush and in a stand (and, apparently, in all combat situations under 400M) -- as velocity doesn't mean much in terms accuracy, and if you give up between 10 and 30 fps per inch .. and i've seen that much variation in the same length, otherwise same rifles....

it all boils down to opinion and taste -- like a longer barrel? cool.. like a shorter barrel, cool .. i am much more interested in how accurate the rifle and shooter are than theoretical "i can shoot 125 yards farther" when most people can't hit a dumpster at 400 yards already

now, if balanced right, you don't even give up handiness when shooting off-hand .. takes all of 10 minutes to tap a 1/2oz weight on the stock to find where it hangs better, then install that weight into the forearm, under the barrel and epoxy it in

I went trough s short barreled phase I have them 16 to 20 scout rifles ect..

I now prefer longer barrels for most of my hunting but my 18 inch 06 scout does get use when running bears with the hounds and hunting pigs in the thick stuff.

My preferred deer rifle in the Northwood's is a 24 inch Savage 99. I have killed a lot of running deer with it up close and personnel in thick brush

I did just buy a Mossberg 308 with a short threaded barrel with the thought of putting a suppressor on it if the HPA passes.

The biggest dislike I have with short barrels is the muzzle blast.

I like my Gunsite scout rifle and purchased it for something handier in the deer stand. Easy to get in and out of a window quickly.

But I don't normally go out looking for a shorter rifle to carry. For a few years I carried my .338 Win Mag with 26" barrel with brake for everything.

Interesting comments and reasons. I personally like long barreled rifles, always have. I have a couple of rifles with what I consider short barrels, but the majority of the rifles I own or have owned the barrels were 24 inches or longer.

i think the short barrel thing has come about due to ar's. the long action of an ar sort of demands the short barrel and people have forgotten just how much they lose with a short barrel

I have and have had rifles with barrels from 16" to31". In their place I liked them all. A buddy from about 45 years ago use to use a Mod 760 30-06 with an 18" barrel. Best hunter I ever knew. ALWAYS brought home his deer or elk on day hunts.\
roger

quote:

Originally posted by Samuel_Hoggson:
When rifle people use terms like "handy" and "quick" they're describing something about which shotgunners are generally more savvy. That thing is moment of inertia. There are various ways of measuring and expressing MOI. Stuff like half-swing radius, etc. A fellow who posts mostly on doublegunshop even has a database and measuring device. Shotgun people quickly appreciate why a 30" Purdey game gun may be quicker than a 24" Stagecoach special. Or why most 28" Win M-12s just "feel" better and are "faster" to point a grouse vs a Mossberg with 24". As a ME grouse/WC hunter I assure you quick and accurate shooting can be done from the thickest, nastiest stuff with 28" bbl repeaters and 30" bbl doubles

It's horses for courses - while longer bbl might be technically "more accurate" at range you won't find many SWAT or military door kickers using guns with 28" bbls !
And there are plenty of very important reasons the M-4 carbine is so popular in the military and Alaskan guides and others who daily carry rifles in the wilderness tend to prefer shorter rifles.

And balance is a factor of how well the components match. Cut the barrels of your Purdey to 18 inches and tell me how great it balances.

quote:

Originally posted by jeffeosso:
i like rifles.. 18-22" rifles handle better in the brush and in a stand (and, apparently, in all combat situations under 400M) -- as velocity doesn't mean much in terms accuracy, and if you give up between 10 and 30 fps per inch .. and i've seen that much variation in the same length, otherwise same rifles....

it all boils down to opinion and taste -- like a longer barrel? cool.. like a shorter barrel, cool .. i am much more interested in how accurate the rifle and shooter are than theoretical "i can shoot 125 yards farther" when most people can't hit a dumpster at 400 yards already

now, if balanced right, you don't even give up handiness when shooting off-hand .. takes all of 10 minutes to tap a 1/2oz weight on the stock to find where it hangs better, then install that weight into the forearm, under the barrel and epoxy it in

I like short barrels when I whitetail in a stand - just plain easier to maneuver, esp when in an enclosed stand. Plus, the shorter barrel has a shorter arc when moved.

I also like a short barrel when coyote hunting, as I am always driving from stand to stand and it is easier to get in and out of the truck.

I had my .416 Rem bobbed to 22 inches and much prefer that over a 24 inch barrel. On my long range guns, like 26 or more. My .338 Edge is 27.5 and one of my Lapuas is 30.

As for ARs, I have a 6mm Hagar with a 24 inch Krieger - who says ARs have to be short? I built this for long range shooting using VLD bullets.

The point about shotguns is spot on. I used to hunt in MN with a shorter barrel, but in AZ I prefer either my 101 with 30 inch bbls or my SX3 with 26 (essentially the same length as my 101).

It's interesting to compare Winchester and Browning Model 71 rifles and short rifle/carbines. They made the short rifle's barrel 20 inches, but made them heavier and the same weight as the 24" version. The two guns weigh and balance exactly the same in my hands.

I like both short and "moderate" length barrels. My "go to" deer rifle is a 20" Browning Micro-Medallion. When I don't want to think about it, that is the rifle I bring. On my custom and re-barrelled rifles, I have compromised with myself and have them all cut to 23". It seems to work. The only rifles that have longer barrels are my 264WM at 26" and my Browning Highwall in 30-06 at 28" since it is a single shot and came that way.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
It's horses for courses - while longer bbl might be technically "more accurate" at range you won't find many SWAT or military door kickers using guns with 28" bbls !
And there are plenty of very important reasons the M-4 carbine is so popular in the military and Alaskan guides and others who daily carry rifles in the wilderness tend to prefer shorter rifles.

And balance is a factor of how well the components match. Cut the barrels of your Purdey to 18 inches and tell me how great it balances.

Phil, Your last comment is kinda my point. OAL inputs less into "handiness" than does balance and, even more important, the mass between the hands vs mass at the ends.

I can certainly appreciate the difference between your needs for big bears vs my needs for grouse and whitetails out back. For every guide/hunter with your needs there are thousands who do not have those needs. Military room-clearing CQB applications are another matter.

BTW, I wish I had the dough to cut a Purdey up. The visual on that one made me feel ill.

Heck, I wish I had the dough to own a Purdey.

Balance and overall handling is a very important factor but for many purposes so is the overall length.
Back when I was competitively shooting skeet 26" bbls were considered faster, maybe they were, but hitting was a lot more important and folks discovered that for shotguns, where "pointing" is "aiming" longer bbls help you hit. It's the same with handguns but most folks prefer the benefits of a shorter bbl for most uses.

If I'm hunting or shooting a rifle , I want a longer barrel and 24" is the shortest and 26" with a brake added is the longest that I feel good about.

I have not "cleared" a room in a long time (never) so my personal need for a "handy" rifle is very limited.

I've sheep and moose hunted atop a horse and 24" plus brake was handy enough to get the job done in style.

I suppose if I hunted in the brush or in a box blind a shorty like 22' barrel might be "handy" but, I don't hunt in a box and don't "brush up" my quarry, my needs are different.

While I can appreciate a short barrel and respect those who desire one, I'll take my long barrel stuff all day long.

BTW: back 40+ years ago when I started skeet shooting, 26" barrels were all the rage. Now most are 30" and many are over 32 or even 34" in OU comp guns for skeet. Yes, they're still really fast mounting and swinging and now very very few use shorties.

Zeke

Short barreled rifles are good for urban, house clearing CQB, but not optimal for hunting, IMHO of course.

In my case its for balance and esthetics--

since i use a 13 in LOP a 20 in barrel just looks and feels right.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael Robinson:
Short barreled rifles are good for urban, house clearing CQB, but not optimal for hunting, IMHO of course.

I will respectfully disagree as even when I was guiding sheep hunters I found shorter rifles handier to carry in the mountains and perfectly suitable for making shots over 400 yards.

Each to his own. For my use, it depends on the purpose of the rifle. I have a 21" barreled custom 338 Federal, a 26" plus brake 300 WM H-S SPL, and a Nosler 48 7-08 24". In my hands, they all handle nimbly because the barrel contur was selected to engineer proper balance. These are all hunting rifles which are meant to be carried. For my hunting style, I would prefer that the 7-08 have a 22" barrel as IMHO 308 class case capacities are best served by 22". My carry style in the timber is muzzle down with a taped muzzle. My dominant right hand usually has a walking stick in it. At 5'7" the long barrels extend too far below the knee to carry comfortably and stay out of the dirt. The 300 is not intended for my use in the timber.
For any specific hunting style or purpose, the rifle design needs to be optimized. When I go to the safe, I pick the rifle best suited to the species and hunting environment. There are applications for all barrel lengths.
With that being said, I believe that in some instances, manufacturers try to interpret markets and do some really stupid things. Case in point is the Sako Mannlicher rifles made in the magnum calibers. Case capacity and barrel length need to be rational for the expansion ratio.

With the increase in length must be an increase in diameter to counter the barrel whip, if you are only concerned with accuracy.

Short barrels work for me.

As everyone else said above, they are much easier to pack, scabbard, drag through rough terrain, and put on a ATV.

I used to shoot International Skeet competitively, and it was hard to find someone to shoot with. The idea of shooting perfect scores, whether in small bore prone or American skeet, seems paramount. You don't see perfect scores in International Skeet very often.

Shooting at faster, harder birds, from a low gun position, with a delay of up to 3 seconds after the shooter calls for the target puts gun handling at a premium, especially at stations like Number 8.

My Krieghoff double rifles all have stocks built to the same measurements as my Perazzi International Skeet gun, and yes, I have shot skeet with some of them. A .410 shell is no longer reloadable after being shot in a .458 WM chamber, but I never loaded .410's anyway. Two of my guns have extra barrel sets in 12 gauge and 20 gauge 3" Magnum. They proved ideal for casual bird/waterfowl shooting on safari.

For fast, close in work, there's nothing like a rifle which handles like a shotgun.

And, by the way, I have also shot rounds of International Skeet with a bolt action shotgun. Shooting doubles is a little hairy, but manageable.

I'd like to know why some folks are enamored with long barrels.....The velocity gains are purely emotional and not at all noticed in the field.

For me, 24" on all rifles except magnums, then 26".

quote:

I'd like to know why some folks are enamored with long barrels.....The velocity gains are purely emotional and not at all noticed in the field.

I can only speak for myself but I just like the looks of a rifle with a longer barrel. I simply like the looks and feel of rifles with 24 to 26 inch barrels.

Nothing really that different than preferring larger caliber rifles over smaller calibers. Why use a .300 Weatherby for hunting white tails, when under normal hunting conditions a .243 will work.

Personal Preference, nothing more and Thankfully in America each of have the Right to Choose & Use what we like, within the LEGAL Parameters of the Game Laws in effect in the places we hunt!

I like 18.5 to as much as 27 inches..for no particular reason as both work well if built correctly..For running shots on game, its hard to beat a 26 inch tube., same with a slightly heavy carbine..

I see no reason to have a choice, I have both and like them equally..I can get by equally well in the wide open spaces or the thickest of timber with a long barrel or a stub.

I have .308 rifles from 17.25" (Ruger's 16" GSR) to 26". I took them out and ran the same load using Varget over a chronograph and found that the difference shortest to longest was less than 150 fps. For eastern woods hunting from a blind or thru multiflora rose the GSR or RSI are hard to beat.

quote:

Originally posted by Rick R:
I have .308 rifles from 17.25" (Ruger's 16" GSR) to 26". I took them out and ran the same load using Varget over a chronograph and found that the difference shortest to longest was less than 150 fps. For eastern woods hunting from a blind or thru multiflora rose the GSR or RSI are hard to beat.

That is good data, but my guess is the difference would be higher in a less efficient cartridge like a RUM.

Because most of our deer stands are 4' square.

'Cause if the BATF ever gets off their duff, I hope to add about 6" to it.

A 26" just looks so great...

I've never felt that a 26" was too long and in fact I hunted for many years with a 26" 308 thinking it was 24"... oops. It was that handy and balanced.

Balance is critical so too short causes other issues. I am happy at 22" on some rifles like my Mod 70 FW but in my world I don't need shorter. A few of my buddies have 450 RR rifles with 21" tubes and they feel too short to me.

There are certainly circumstances where shorter is better but I'm not in those circumstances it seems.

I love the looks and hang of an early style flintlock longrifle and hunted with one for a number of years. But even with a swamped barrel there was no way you could call it fast and handy!

Weight for one reason. Not so long and catches on things when strapped to a backpack for another. Balance on lightweights for another. All depends what you use them for I guess.

I am not really all that sure that any of us really hunt enough to be able to discern any real differences in performance or handling between a 20 inch barreled rifle and one with a 26 inch barrel.

It is personal choice and we condition ourselves to make things work.

Just an example from my experiences. Lora uses a Ruger Model 77 Ultra-Lite in .257 Roberts that I believe has only a 20 inch barrel, while one of my Go To's is a Tang Safety Model 77 in .35 Whelen, that came from the factory with a 22 inch POS barrel that I had replaced with a 26 inch E.R. Shaw Number 3 Sporter Weight barrel.

I really have no problem using either or telling any real difference in the handling qualities between the two.

I may be wrong, but I think most of us that spend much time shooting or hunting are a lot more flexible in changing rifles and being successful than we care to admit. Maybe I am wrong on that, but it has worked for me for closing in on 50 years.

Pack a rifle in the mountains for 70+ days a year and you can discern a lot!

Set in a 4'x6' box blind trying to get a rifle barrel out of a 10"x 18" shooting window that many days and get back to me!

We don't all hunt under the EXACT same conditions, and some of us are a lot more flexible in adapting to existing conditions!

And some of us plan for the conditions