Hey guys im thinking of getting a 308 win and trading my 30-06 in for it but i dont know too much about the cartridge. I also have a 300 win mag. So i guess the question is, is the 308 really as accurate as i hear everyone say and would it be a good trade going from the old 06 to the 308 any help advice and stories good or bad would be a big help. Thanks Bill.

One of the most versatile cartridges available and extremely accurate as well. Not for the big bears in NA, but certainly works well for the rest of the game out there. A supposed negative is that it will not handle the heaviest bullets as the '06 does, 200-250 grain range, but have worn out barrels shooting the 190's and does quite well with them out to the 1000 yard mark. Would encourage a 12 twist for ability to shoot well a wide range of bullet weights. 10 is OK, but like the 12 better.
Has been a military/service round for some 50 plus years now and plenty of components, load data, etc. to support the cartridge. '06 also has plenty of support, but believe the 308 to be a more effecient round in terms of performance vs powder charge. Don't see how you can go wrong with a 308 for all around performance, hunting as well as target.

You are really not gaining much of anything by going from 30-06 to 308..heck... you have a 300 win mag...why not either go up to 338 or 35/36 or down to 243 or 25 cal?

You just wouldn't see much difference between those two fine rounds.

What are you planning to do with a 308 that you couldn't with a 30-06? Just wanting a new rifle is reason enough...

Cheers

I really dont have a reason so to speak but i found a special purpose rifle that i really like and its in 308 thats the only reason. thanks

The .308 is within 100 fps of the 30-06 up to 180 gr bullets, when you use the 220's the 30-06 has an advantage, but with modern bullets there is really no reason to use anything heavier than 180 if not 165 gr in the 30 cal

I've only had one .308, and yes it is a very accurate round. It's very easy to load for, I'd venture to say with a pound of Varget and a box of 150 and or 165 gr pills you should have no problem finding some good loads.

For someone that wants a pair of 30 cal's, the .308 win and 300 win mag are about as good a pair as one could want.

quote:

the question is, is the 308 really as accurate as i hear everyone say and would it be a good trade going from the old 06 to the 308 a

The .308 is no more accurate than a .30-06!!!!

It's a poor trade IMO.....keep the .30-06 as you gain nothing in the .308

The singe greatest advantage to the 308 vs "06 is the short action package. That said, the 308 is so close to '06 performance that it has the advantage IMO. A 1 in 12 twist would be my choice as well and as to accurate... no question the 308 beats the '06 once again.

The 308 Win is just a so-so cartridge. The one rifle that I own in 308 I've been shooting since 1975 and it will only put three bullets into 3/4". It used to be real accurate but after 8,000 - 10,000 rounds it just doesn't measure up anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

The .308 is no more accurate than a .30-06!!!!

This is incorrect.

Not to say that specific 30-06's aren't more accurate than specific 308's but on Average the 308 absolutely IS more accurate than the 30-06. It has be PROVEN beyond doubt with 10's of thousands of rounds shot through equivelant rifles during Military and other testing. Do a small amount of research and you will find this to be true.

Now the accuracy difference isn't enough to matter in a hunting rifle. The 30-06 is a legendary hunting round that's every bit as good as it's reputation - It's just not quite as accurate a round as the 308.........................................DJ

The .308 will kill everything you'll kill with an -06 in a lighter more compact rifle and as others have said, with slightly better accuracy. I imagine for hunts with high odds of shots past 300 yds you'd be taking the 300 winnie.

None of my .308's do really well with the heavier bullets, but with 150's the can do better than I can shoot. I own both .308 & 30-06 and although I am a .308 nut, even I think they are close in accuracy. The only quality custom I own is a .308 so I guess that really shows where my loyalties lie.

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

The .308 is no more accurate than a .30-06!!!!

This is incorrect.

Not to say that specific 30-06's aren't more accurate than specific 308's but on Average the 308 absolutely IS more accurate than the 30-06. It has be PROVEN beyond doubt with 10's of thousands of rounds shot through equivelant rifles during Military and other testing. Do a small amount of research and you will find this to be true.

Now the accuracy difference isn't enough to matter in a hunting rifle. The 30-06 is a legendary hunting round that's every bit as good as it's reputation - It's just not quite as accurate a round as the 308.........................................DJ

It's true that in recent years a lot of target/varmint rifles have been built on the .308 case.....and because of this it has earned a reputation for accuracy.......but I'd challenge anyone to give me a number.....the number representing the real accuracy advantage over the .30-06....is it 1/8"???....or 1/16"???

Please remember folks....this is AR....not benchrest.com.....

I'm standing by my post.....in real life there is no difference.

I hear this all the time !
Both cartridges are great. If you like the .308 rifle better than you 06 rifle, why not trade.
But you really are not gaining anything, in preformance that matters.
A we bit less powder used,

I have 2 .308s and one 06.
Would buy another in either round happily if I like the rifle...tj3006

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

The .308 is no more accurate than a .30-06!!!!

This is incorrect.

Not to say that specific 30-06's aren't more accurate than specific 308's but on Average the 308 absolutely IS more accurate than the 30-06. It has be PROVEN beyond doubt with 10's of thousands of rounds shot through equivelant rifles during Military and other testing. Do a small amount of research and you will find this to be true.

Now the accuracy difference isn't enough to matter in a hunting rifle. The 30-06 is a legendary hunting round that's every bit as good as it's reputation - It's just not quite as accurate a round as the 308.........................................DJ

It's true that in recent years a lot of target/varmint rifles have been built on the .308 case.....and because of this it has earned a reputation for accuracy.......but I'd challenge anyone to give me a number.....the number representing the real accuracy advantage over the .30-06....is it 1/8"???....or 1/16"???

Please remember folks....this is AR....not benchrest.com.....

I'm standing by my post.....in real life there is no difference.

The difference is larger than you think. I suggest that you read this article:

http://www.snipercountry.com/Articles/AccuracyFacts.asp


And as I said before I'm not trying to say that the 30-06 isn't plenty accurate for a hunting rifle. But who would rather hunt with a 1 MOA rifle instead of a comparable 1/2 MOA rifle?
This isn't a benchrest forum but it IS an enthusiast forum. Most of the people that post here are the kind of shooters that care about a 1/2 minute difference in rifle accuracy. In the military tests the 308's in otherwise identical rifles were 50% to 60% more Accurate - that's certainly enough to be signifigant even in a hunting rifle.
I'd still use a 30-06 if for some reason I wanted to shoot 220gr 30 caliber bullets in either but to me 200gr and heavier 308cal bullets are what 300mags for. For general hunting I simply prefer a shorter, lighter, handier and more accurate 308 to a 30-06..........................................DJ

Some years ago NATO conducted tests on various rounds in or near the NATO headquarters in Belgium and had the results at one time and the 308 was deemed as what is known as a 1 or potentially can deliver .1 of an inch accuracy. The '06 did not make that level of performance I was told. (Interstingly enough is that the 338Lapua, official NATO round, also joined that somewhat elite club of cartridges) Whether the 06 was close or far behind do not know, but can state that the recently conducted Long Range matches held at Perry saw far, far more 308 calibers being used than the old work horse 06. If the 06 was superior in accuracy, that is what would be used.
As for the NATO tests, rifle used is 40X and firing of something near 10,000 rounds would be fired. I at that time, had a source for the once fired Lapua brass generated and still have a few five gallon buckets of them. Like gold these days. Not putting down the 06 and shot one of those grand old NRA 03/06 rifles quite a bit, but today at a match and someone is using the 06 he is generally an older person and simply uses what he is accustomed to shooting. Both cartridges will still be here when we are long gone to the "big range in the sky..."

OK....I concede.....I retract my statement and will reword it!....here goes:

While the .308 is ever slightly more accurate than a .30-06.....

1. If you missed your deer last year using a .30-06 then you'd have missed it using a .308 too!

2. Had American GIs used a .308 instead of a .30-06 in WWII it would not have accounted for a single additional German casualty

3. If you traded your .30-06 for a .308 to get better accuracy, you may have made a good trade but only if the target you're shooting at is smaller than a bumble bee at 100 yards.

IM with vapodog i have had some '06 that would just drill at 100 meters. it would out shoot some of my .308'S.. but yes in general speaking over all the .308 is used more in target shooting than the '06 all you are gainging for the .308 is a short action and less recoil. what are you humting with it. if you like the 308 rifle better than the '06 .. by all means trade.. and yes the ,308 is a great round, and has the most available fractory ammo on the narket, that is if you dont reload...

Hello Vapodog,
You concede with both grace and dignity, and we will let you keep your sidearm and sword of rank.

I have several 308s and an equal number of 3006s. winchester remington tikka and one browning 308. All have sporter weight 22 inch barrels. In my limited experience, while the 308 may be theoritally more accurate, in sporter weight barrels, I find it much easier to work up an accurate load in the 3006 than in the 308. In fact of the several 308s I have none are less than one inch rifles. This is easily achieved or exceeded in my 3006s. With regards to velocity, In my experience the difference is more like 150 fps not that it matters.

quote:

Originally posted by dsiteman:
Hello Vapodog,
You concede with both grace and dignity, and we will let you keep your sidearm and sword of rank.

In the hunting world the 06 is the better round period.
The old saw about only outshooting the 308 by a 100fps is bullshit unless you do not handload.
If you spend even just a little time working loads you can make it leave the 308 far behind.

The accuracy advantage is there, on paper. You will never notice any difference in the field.
In fact the velocity advantage of the 06 which equates to less drop and drift probably makes the old 06 the more accurate of the two under hunting conditions.
But the 308 is one hell of a round, recoils less, uses less powder, kills just about as well, and can be made up in really keen and light and short packing rifles.
I am having one made right now with an old Rem600 action and a ultra light stock jsut because I think every man should have one..

I recently bought a Mod 70 308 with a Rock barrel, trued action and a very nice break on it. That being said, I have a 300 win I hunt west of the Mississippi with and I have '06 that I hunt east of the Mississippi with. I just wanted an accurate 308 to kill paper and maybe a clay bird shoot or two, I might even try some F class. In all reality none of us on this site really need a reason to buy another rifle, we all have the disease, and buying a new rifle only termporarilly relieves the symptoms. Buy it shoot it and tell your wife you traded another gun for it.

If the the 30-06 isn't better then the 308 then the 300 mag isn't better then the 30-06 then the 308 isn't better then the 300 sav then the 300 savage isn't better then the 30-30 ect ect so why aren't se all using 30-30's.

A pointless argument I use them all for somethings each has advanages over the other.

One last thought.

Take a .30 Carbine case, and a 7.62 x39 case, and a .30-30 case and a .30 Rem and Sav and .308, '06, .300 Mag of your choice and then even the .30/378. Not put down next to each case a 150 grain bullet and ask yourself how fast will each of those cases

Drive the same bullet.

Both the .308 and 30-06 are par excellent cartridges but I see little point in trading one for the other as it changes nothing and is just a waste of time and money...

I'm with Ray. I'd just keep the .30-06, unless there is something wrong with it.

I'm with Ray too. Lord knows, nobody on AR would ever waste time and money on a rifle....



elmo

I think some are missing the point here. Bill23 like the other rifle more than the one he has. Since consensus seems to be that both cartridges are great then he should change the rifle if he thinks its worth the money.

[question is, is the 308 really as accurate as i hear everyone say and would it be a good trade going from the old 06 to the 308]

Get and use the rifle you want, no question you will be happier in the long run. But don't use "accuracy" of the .308, per se, be the determining factor cause it is still a crap shoot going from one factory rifle to another.

Atkinson has it right, no hunting cartridge in a factory rifle has any significant advantage over another.

The much lauded "inherent" accuracy concept applies ONLY when the rifle has been precision built using a precision barrel and very high class optics. And even then it may only be demonstrated when fired from a good bench and rest, using very good shooting techniques - which few of us do, and never in the game field.

Gnat's azz accurcy past a certain point isn't worth much to a game hunter. Any good sporter 30-06 will kill deer as well, and do it much futher away, than a highly accurate $2,500 6mm PPC BR gun giving groups of .125", even IF you were to take it afield! Ditto for a tiny bit more precise .308.

Why would someone want to trade an accurate rifle when you could just buy another and have two?

The difference in accuracy between the 308 and 30-06 may not make any real difference in the field but a pound or two weight difference sure the heck will.

You can get heavy 308's and light 30-06's but the average 308 hunting rifle is lighter than the average 30-06...............................DJ

quote:

Originally posted by Jim C. <><:

The much lauded "inherent" accuracy concept applies ONLY when the rifle has been precision built using a precision barrel and very high class optics. And even then it may only be demonstrated when fired from a good bench and rest,

Sorry No, this isn't at all correct. The substantial accuracy differences were first noted when shooting M-1 Garands in both calibers. They were not "precision built" and were fired with Iron sites. The accuracy differences noted in High Power matches are fired Standing Offhand, Sitting and Prone - not from a Benchrest.......................DJ

quote:

Originally posted by bill23:
Hey guys im thinking of getting a 308 win and trading my 30-06 in for it ...is the 308 really as accurate as i hear everyone say and would it be a good trade going from the old 06 to the 308 ....

Hey Bill23, The "Accuracy" of a specific 308Win might be better than your 30-06, the same, or worse. Each rifle is unique and there is no way to know how well it will shoot until you have it sending Bullets into a Target.

It would be a "good Trade" if you got something you like better than what you currently have. Then again, you could end up with a piece of constantly rusting Blue Steel with Termite Food for a stock. You might get one so well made that it would concern you about taking it outdoors. Or you might end up with a nice light Stainless & Synthetic which feels at place in bad weather and is extremely accurate.

What got you to thinking about making the Trade to start with? Do you just want something new to try out? Want a lighter weight rifle?

I'd say it depends on what you are trying to accomplish.

I can clearly remember , the days in witch if I wanted a new rifle guitar or pistol, I head to sell one to pay for it.
Fortunatly those days ar gone, at least for the time being.
But it seems to me, if you want a .308 hang on to your 06 and wait till you can afford a .308.
In my opinion, the best reasons to make a change from 06 to .308 would be if you wanted save every ounce of weight , in both rifl;e and ammo, in somthing like a survival rifle.
Or, if you wanted to shoot a whole buch, you would save on powder and have a we bit les recoil with the.308.
One thing about todays rifles is the nowadays there are lots of good options. If you wanted to spend some money, it would be hard to beat a 3000 dolar NULA in .308 for a survival rifle, but when it came down to pulling the trigger and hitting what you are sooting at, a Remington (forget what version of the 700 it is)
plain jane flat black & black synthetic stock for well under 500 should do nearly as well.
So in conclusion, can you work a few weekends ?
mabye take a part time job for a few weeks ?
get your self a second rifle.
A good 30,06 and or a good .308 is worth hanging onto. And might well apreciate faster than your 401K has last couple years.
...tj3006
...tj3006

My thought is that bill23 is a young guy that has some money burning a hole in his pocket and wants this "special purpose rifle" rip, shit or bust. No flys on the 308 Win. although some '06 snobs look their noses down on them.

I've fired thousands of .308 (7.62mm NATO) rounds thru match grade M-1s, M-1As and assorted H&K, SIG, Steyr, and FN rifles, and it's a super target cartridge, BUT, when I have hunting in mind I always reach for a .30-06!!!! If North American experience was not enough, two African safaris have served to ram home the belief that the .30-06 is a plain out and out winner. Load a .30-06 with 220 grain Noslers, or even back off to 180 grainers, and you still have a world class hunting rifle combo. Stay with your .30-06 !!!

LLS

quote:

Originally posted by bill23:
I really dont have a reason so to speak but i found a special purpose rifle that i really like and its in 308 thats the only reason. thanks

That is reason enough to make the purchase. Just know that "tactical" and "SPR" type rifles seem to cost three or four times more than a sporter when properly equipped. They are also somewhat load sensitive in that they do their best with only one or two bullet types/weights.
Yup, can't hit something at a fur pace if you don't know your load and come-ups.

One caliber is not more accurate than another, that is determined by bedding, barrel, shooter and a host of nebulas inities that haunt the gun nuts world....

From a reasonable standpoint, sans the emotion of "I got one", the 30-06 is probably a better choice for a hunting rifle as you can shoot 200 and 220 gr. bullets better in it, other than that they are pretty much equal. Both are excellent choices..As to the shorter action thats just a joke, or a cancer in some folks brain, if you cannot handle that extra 1/4 inch or less bolt travel then you, my friend, cannot chew gum and walk at the same time!

I would not trade off a really accurate rifle for one that I have no idea how its going to shoot, thats asking for pain!

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
One caliber is not more accurate than another, that is determined by bedding, barrel, shooter and a host of nebulas inities that haunt the gun nuts world....

This is simply untrue. It has been proven by shooting hundreds of thousands of rounds in contolled conditions, in many different types of competions and by manufacturers that some rounds are more inherantly accurate than others. It is a PROVEN FACT. You can stick you head in the sand and say it's wrong but it has been again PROVEN and is not an opinion. Do a little research and you'll find out the truth.

quote:

As to the shorter action thats just a joke, or a cancer in some folks brain, if you cannot handle that extra 1/4 inch or less bolt travel then you, my friend, cannot chew gum and walk at the same time!

I'm also quite surprised that anyone who purports to be familiar with the fit of a gun would posit that 1/4 to 1/2" difference here and there on a gunstock doesn't matter.
The fact is that many people will find that a long action rifle will fit them better than a short action rifle does, with others a short action will suit them better.
The shorter bolt throw can and does make a difference with shooters who tend to be "Stock Crawlers". Just because some people are ignorant of this fact doesn't mean that it doesn't exist and just because it may not apply to you personally doesn't mean it doesn't to others. Ridiculing it merely highlights your lack of knowledge..................................DJ

quote:

Originally posted by djpaintles:

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
One caliber is not more accurate than another, that is determined by bedding, barrel, shooter and a host of nebulas inities that haunt the gun nuts world....

This is simply untrue. It has been proven by shooting hundreds of thousands of rounds in contolled conditions, in many different types of competions and by manufacturers that some rounds are more inherantly accurate than others. It is a PROVEN FACT. You can stick you head in the sand and say it's wrong but it has been again PROVEN and is not an opinion. Do a little research and you'll find out the truth.

quote:

As to the shorter action thats just a joke, or a cancer in some folks brain, if you cannot handle that extra 1/4 inch or less bolt travel then you, my friend, cannot chew gum and walk at the same time!

I'm also quite surprised that anyone who purports to be familiar with the fit of a gun would posit that 1/4 to 1/2" difference here and there on a gunstock doesn't matter.
The fact is that many people will find that a long action rifle will fit them better than a short action rifle does, with others a short action will suit them better.
The shorter bolt throw can and does make a difference with shooters who tend to be "Stock Crawlers". Just because some people are ignorant of this fact doesn't mean that it doesn't exist and just because it may not apply to you personally doesn't mean it doesn't to others. Ridiculing it merely highlights your lack of knowledge..................................DJ

If he says he's sorry, does he get to keep his sidearm and sword?