Dj paintless
Take it easy! Ray atkinson was had probably killed more game and taken more shots with a rifle than I ever will , in the 20 some odd years he was around before i was born.
You use way to disrespectfull tone.
While in fact I agree with your points to an extent. I, do not give a rats ass about 10,000 rounds fired in a lab with match grade ammo and all sorts of hight tech scientific stuff , to suport the fact that a .308 is a more acurate round than a 30,06.
A good properly stocked and bedded 30,06, is more acurate than 99 out of a 100 hunters or shooters will ever need it to be.
Ray has hunted all over the world and knows his stuff from shooting game. Lots of game.
So watch what you say , I will listen to anything the man says.
I might RESPECTFULLY disagre but I am not near cocky or foolish enough to pretend his real world experience does not merrit a very good listening.
...tj3006

quote:

Originally posted by Thomas Jones:
Dj paintless

You use way to disrespectfull tone.

I might RESPECTFULLY disagre but I am not near cocky or foolish enough to pretend his real world experience does not merrit a very good listening.
...tj3006

quote:

originally posted by Atkinson:

As to the shorter action thats just a joke, or a cancer in some folks brain, if you cannot handle that extra 1/4 inch or less bolt travel then you, my friend, cannot chew gum and walk at the same time!

I use a way too disrespectful tone?


I know that Mr Atkinson has far more hunting experience than I, so I should have said "lack of knowledge in this area". But we weren't talking about hunting experience here. And having had this discussion before I also have no doubt that his sarcastic remarks were directed towards me.

But it doesn't matter how much experience you have in the hunting field, anyone can walk into a well stocked gun store pick up a Kimber Montana in 308 Winchester and then pick up a Kimber Montana in 30-06 and tell that there is a subtanstial difference in them. That's the point I'm trying to make..............................DJ

"The hits just keep on a com'n..." and "the beat goes on...," but as to whether he gets to keep his side arm or sword of rank depends on how sincere his apology is and whether or not he grovels. Might point out that if the apology is not adequate, sidearm is retained and the sword of rank is broken off at the hilt and only the handle is returned and the "pointy end" is thrown away.
Disregarding the NATO testing is an intersting concept and could it be that the test was done only to occupy time and space with no goal in mind?? I think not and would further add that the real purpose of such testing was to determine which cartridge to use in hitting a live target, the enemy/humans. The 308 is every bit the equal of the '06 in all areas other than one, accuracy potential and there it simply supercedes the '06. That fact alone certainly does not make it a better hunting round, but it sure as hell does not make it any less either. Facts are confusing at times I know.

I used a 30-06 match bolt gun for several years. I used it as an across the course rifle and at 1000 yards. It was based on a M98 Mauser which is considered “not a target actionâ€.

Those who make blanket statements about the 30-06 not being as accurate as a 308 must not have ever fired either in competition. I do believe it is harder to shoot a 30-06 as well as a 308, but that is due to factors other than what you see on paper.

A 30-06 takes more powder for the same velocity and actually kicks a bit more. I used a load of 168 SMK 47.0 grs IMR 4895 or 168 SMK and 55 grs IMR4350. Both loads kicked more than an equivalent 308, and I could tell the 4350 load kicked more in rapid fire.

Increased recoil is bad is it knocks you out of position and you start flinching. You shoot 308 or 30-06 you will flinch in time, the more recoil, the sooner you flinch.

Another thing was that the bolt throw with a 30-06 is about a half inch longer. That makes a difference in rapid fire. You have to move more to get out of the way of that bolt. A good position is fundamental to good shooting, movement is bad. More movement is worse than less movement.

I read the Bart Bobbit the Sniper dude comments on the 308/30-06. I am not impressed. The unreferenced arsenal test data might have come from the 1968 American Rifleman. The ammo they were using then had the old 174 FMJBT and left a lot of air space in the 30-06.

I have match Garands (in 30-06) and match M1a’s. The M1a will hold its zero longer, and kicks less, and is probably more inherently accurate due to a stiffer operating rod, one less upper handguard, and better gas system. But on paper, when a Garand is in tune, the difference between scores is mainly influenced by skill level and practice.

I also believe this is true for bolt rifles.

When I was shooting the 30-06, I produced this target in a local 100 yard reduced course match. This is a 20 shot group, fired prone with iron sights. The two nines are do to postional errors, not the cartridge. I do not believe target accuracy is relevant to game shooting, and having a half MOA rifle versus a 1 MOA does not compensate for a lack of shooting skills.

Hello Slamfire,
Jerked the damn trigger on those 9's is what happened!! Your comments well said and whether the 308 is more accurate or not, leave that up for the eternal arguments/debates, but I also shoot the M1Garand NM in both 308 and '06 and they will deliver very similar performance if I do my part. As you mentioned, '06 takes more concentration, for me anyway, to stay in position due to recoil in rapid fire(10 aimed shots in 60 seconds w/ mag change required-70 seconds,10 shots w/ mag change in prone @ 300 yards) but on the slow fire standing 200 yards either off hand or prone 600 I can not tell any difference in accuracy if I again, do my part. I prefer to shoot the 308 in either the Garand or the M1A/M14 for as you say, seems to hold it's zero longer and scores usually higher with the M1A/M14.
Many disagree but I am a firm believer that the years I have shot matches, XC and Long Range, have done nothing but greatly improve my shooting while hunting as well. Think if folks would just visit a XC match in their area they would come away with a whole new outlook on shooting and marksmanship and very easily transfer that experience to the hunting efforts. The sling and how to use it is a portable bench rest if it is used properly. You should always seek the most stable position when hunting, tree trunk, limb, some sort of rest if available, but I don't think I will ever carry a set of shooting sticks with me in the field as long as I have a good sling on the rifle. By the way, for those having not shot at the target shown, that is a tough one to clean, good shooting. Favor Center!!

quote:

Originally posted by bill23:
Hey guys im thinking of getting a 308 win and trading my 30-06 in for it but i dont know too much about the cartridge. I also have a 300 win mag. So i guess the question is, is the 308 really as accurate as i hear everyone say and would it be a good trade going from the old 06 to the 308 any help advice and stories good or bad would be a big help. Thanks Bill.

for those that may have lapsed a bit...here's the original post.

Good point Vapodog, one should always try and keep his eye on the target!!

I like the 308, I also like the 30-06. I have built very accurate rifles in both cartridges. I use my 308 when I need less than 165 grains of bullet, the 30-06 when I need more, hence the 308 got more use on deer and hogs before I put my 7x57 together. I am just shy of having another 308 put together on a Mauser 24/47. Too many rifles and too little hunting time!