Oh happy days.
I've been down to the range today and found that my 7x57 shoots Federal Factory 140 grainers and my hand loaded 175 grainers one inch lower dead in line verticaly.
The 175s for the bush and 140s for open shooting without having to adjust the scope!

Glad to hear of your good luck.
Don't want to be the yellow rain on your parade, but I would chrony those federal rounds.
When I bought my ruger 7 mauser I got a free box of winchester 145 grain factory ammo.
Velocity was not much more than your 175s are likly shooting...tj3006

A great caliber and I prefer the 175 gr. bullets in it unless your shooting long distances then I would opt for the 150 or 160s...

The factory stuff is usually loaded down because there are so many old M-95 and M-93 Mausers around that may be a little soft and the bullet manufacturers are scared to death of the many frivoulous law suits being posted in the courts in the USA...what a croc that is! but were a law suit happy nation, something for nothing, gimme, lend me, let me have, society..

Do any of you guys with experience have loads or formulas for load data (ie. multiply br 5%) for a good strong action like the Remington 700 or Ruger M77? Thanks, Peter.

oldun, That's great! I have a couple such handloads with 160 and 139 grain bullets. No need for chronographing, just go out and slay things.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by PeterS:
Do any of you guys with experience have loads or formulas for load data (ie. multiply br 5%) for a good strong action like the Remington 700 or Ruger M77? Thanks, Peter.[/QUOTE

Peter, if you haven't already, have a look over here7x57+P
its more in the area you're talking about.
Steve

Should any one be interested the 175 grain load is;
Hornady 175g RN seated to an oal of 3.060, in my rifle this sits 0.010 off the lands.
Norma case,
WLR primer.
Powder 53 gr. H1000

nominal velocity 2,419 pressure 41,400 cup. in a 24 inch barrel,(Hodgdon data manual)

When resizing only the first .284 of the neck is resized, leaving the last 80 thou or so and all of the case body at chamber dimensions. This works very well and stops blow back, the small amount of fouling is limited to the .284.

quote:

Originally posted by oldun:
Oh happy days.
I've been down to the range today and found that my 7x57 shoots Federal Factory 140 grainers and my hand loaded 175 grainers one inch lower dead in line verticaly.
The 175s for the bush and 140s for open shooting without having to adjust the scope!

My Ruger 1A 7X57mm does the same. With my 175-grain handload, it shoots 1" lower at 100 yards than it does with the 140-gain handload-Nosler Partitions in both weights. Zeroed to put the 140-grainer +4" @ 100, either load can be aimed dead on out to 300 yards and it will hit within the vital zone....

quote:

...what a croc that is! but were a law suit happy nation, something for nothing, gimme, lend me, let me have, society

Ray, we are a"but wait" "you get" society-just watch the TV commercials for a few minutes! It's enough to gag a maggot!!

The load I shoot in my #1A is 50 grains of H-414. It shoots great with 140 grain balistic tips , or 140 grain TSXs.
I would not shoot them in a pre 98 mauser/
...tj3006

Yesterday I was shooting 47.7 gr of RE-19 with CCI200 primers and 154 gr Hornady Interlock bullets set .015 off the rifling in my Ruger M77. It grouped 1 1/2" at 50 yards, but spread out a bit at 100. It was not the greatest shooting day with 10mph shifty winds and lots of mirage and heat boil. Despite the conditions, the rifle is probably capable of better consistency at 100 than the 3 1/4" best that I got. I tried to let it cool and not shoot too fast. Next time I will bring a timer. The velocity was about 2500 fps and fairly consistent. I have H4831SC, H4350, IMR4064, BL(C)-2 and Varget in the approximate burn rate. Does anyone have a favorite combo and seat depth for their Ruger? I am using a VXIII and Ruger rings that have been lapped on the rifle. Shooting prone from bipod and sand bags. Thanks, Peter.

My 7x57 puts all bullet weights in the same place also. I highly reccomend H414 with all bullet weights. I use ths same 48.0 grains of this powder with all bullet weights from 160 to 139. I have yet to work on a load using the 175's and H414 but my old load using 46.0 grains of AA4350 was a good one. Strong actions only!

My choice for the 7x57 is W-760. All loads I've tried with various bullet weights have grouped MOA or less with one exception. The Winchester 150 gr. Power point bulk bullet will not shoot worth shit in any of my .284" bore rifles, not the 7x57s, .280 Rem. or my 7MM Rem. Mag. I weight 100 of these bullets and they varied plus or minus two full grains from their nominal weight. Pure garbage!
Paul B.

I burned a lot of powder trying to get he 140 grain Remington PSPCL's to shoot in my 7x57 and 7MM RM only to raise the stock prices of Hodgens powder. Really surprised me.

My only load is for 160 grain bullets. It is 48.3 grains of H414 in Remington cases, Federal 210 primers, Nosler 160 grain partitions or Hornady 162 grain SSTs seated .01 inch off the lands. My rifle, a CZ 550 American will put three Hornady slugs into a group measuring .480 at 100 yards. One group went .216 inch. This load chronographed 2,815 fps at 8,000 feet elevation in New Mexico when I lived there. Loaded .01 inch off the lands puts the col at 3.30 inches.

Peter

With 139-160 grain bullets, use H414 and shoot for 2900-2950 fps with the 140's, 2750-2800 with the 160's. Mine is very long throated, and I use only Win. or Federal brass, Rem is at least 1 grain less capacity. In mine it takes 52.5 grains with the 140 for almost 3000 fps, about 50 grains goes 2780 fps with 160's. These are about 62000 psi on a pressure trace (not CUP). I have shot about 5000 of these, case life is good, usually toss the brass due to neck cracks. Work up slow and if you hit the velocity sooner, you are probably there. There is a lot of variation in throat lengths, as I had a Win 70 FW years ago and the loads that went 2900 in it went 2700 fps in my current Ruger, so you have to use your head and be cautious, not any different than any other rifle.

quote:

My only load is for 160 grain bullets. It is 48.3 grains of H414 in Remington cases, Federal 210 primers, Nosler 160 grain partitions or Hornady 162 grain SSTs seated .01 inch off the lands.

QuickLoad shows H414 to be too fast burning for 160 grainers, you do not get a complete powder burn (96.7%}, pressure is 59,180 psi and well into the red area, for a velocity of 2,736 fps. P-max is 56,565 psi. A slower burning powder like our S365 gives the following results as per QuickLoad :

Powder burn : 100%
Velocity : 2,591 fps
Pressure : 44,032 psi

I did a test with 160 gr Nos Part in my 7x57 and I got 2,504 fps on ave.
I do not need more velocity than this and I like the lower pressure.
It also gives a complete powder burn.

With lighter bullets a general rule is to go to a faster powder, like S355 in our case.

Last but not least, bullet performance is better with the lower velocity iro Soft bullets.
Imapact velocity window between 2,100 and 2,200 being the most ideal for weight retention, intact petals, better mushrooming along the whole of the wound track. Softs at high impact velocty are prone to shattering and shallow penetration.

Warrior

quote:

QuickLoad shows H414 to be too fast burning for 160 grainers, you do not get a complete powder burn (96.7%}

You figure when powder is too fast it does not give a complete burn but the slower a powder is the more likely it will be to give a complete burn?

My 700 Classic loads are all with IMR 4064, from 120s-160 grainers. My M98 likes the Hogdon Benchmark with 140 grainers.

I chronoed the Federal 140s out of both guns at 2200fps...thats PATHETIC! I am not one who puts a lot of thought into velocity but that is too slowwwwwww.

Perry

Perry,

What load gave you 2,200 fps (muzzle velocity) with 140 gr bullets or are you referring to the factory loaded ammo of Federal, which is advertised at 2,660 fps?

2,200 fps is in deed far below the capability of the 7x57 with a 140 gr bullet. If this is in fact so, I think one should contact Federal about this discrepancy of 460 fps.

Warrior

Warrior,
For what it's worth I only use two powders in my 26" 7x57, H414 or W760
No signs of unburnt powder and no real muzzle flash. It seems to be doing all it can and giving me around 2,500fps with the 160gr Speer Magtip.

As far as I'm concerned there is only one powder for the 7x57 in a good strong modern rifle..That is H414 and I load it way past book max, as most all the books load the 7x57 down because of the old soft surplus actions out there...My all around hunting load sends a 160 gr. Nosler partition down range at 2915 in my 26" barrel and surprisingly enough in my 22" tube it goes 2933 FPS, guess its a faster barrel..I load those cases as many as 15 times and at least 10 times, before I toss them.

Note that I have a long magazine and a very long throat that requires I seat the 160 gr. or 175 gr. half way to the cannalure or about .284 deep, that in essense is an IMP chamber, but you must use an 06 length action.

I am not sure where I heard it and it comes as a surprise to me, but some people actually use H414 and W760 powder in their 7x57's. What happened to regular powder like RE-19, H4350 or IMR4064 with 140 - 154gr bullets? What the heck has reloading come to?
I can't wait for the replies

Peter

There are probably not many here who have experimented more with a 7x57 than I have, not bragging or blowing smoke, it's just my favorite and I never go a week without shooting one. H414 will do everything that 4350 will with more velocity and meters through a measure a heck of a lot better. Quickload or whatever computer program says it doesn't work is just plain wrong. Look at 7x57's load, Ray's and mine. I have used it in Africa, Wyoming, and most places in between and this is just THE go to powder for the 7x57. I will agree on one thing, that is that if I couldn't get H414, I'd use RL19 with pretty much the same results. One of these days I am going to play with some full loads with 140's and 160's and Ramshot Hunter if the damn global warming ever makes it to Mo., been cold, rainy and nasty for shooting here. H414 is also great in 9.3's, .30-06, .338 WM lighter bullets, .220 Swift and .243's as well as the .338-06 and .375 H&H. It is one of the most versatile powders and if you don't have any you sure should get some. 4064 is really a bit fast, will just reach high pressure sooner with less velocity. Look at the pictures and you can literally see the difference in capacity between a R-P and W-W 7x57 mm case.

Well the deal is that when I was trying to get my Ruger M77 7x57 to shoot well I tried to get advice from everyone. I spoke with the bullet manufacturer tech guys. Many provided good insight. Speer used the identical rifle and shared their experiences with it. They also made powder and primer suggestions. The bottom line is that they all recommended H4350 and RE-19. So I bought them. I had the 4064 on hand from some other caliber. It was mentioned as a third choice. I did not know of H414 as an option. I am not quite sure what is up with my particular rifle. I am starting to question my set up when shooting which is a Harris bi-pod in the swivel stud and a sand bag at the rear. I start to get some group or pattern and then wild fliers. While this setup works well with my heavy barrel varmint type rifles, it may not work on this rifle. The rifle has a brand new (Ruger) barrel. The throat is still long, but is .020 - .040 shorter than the old barrel. In my earlier post you can see my RE-19 load. I may try a stiffer load like 49.0gr of RE-19 with the same Hornady 154gr bullets. I have to buy more primers and try again. I may try a regular rest more to the rear on the foreend or a good seated hold. If I get the chance to hunt with it I won't be using the sand bag or rest. Something ain't quite right. Thanks, Peter.

PeterS, a couple of things.
1. Rugers are a law unto themselves. I have a Ruger Ultralight which I dearly love because it handles so well, but, it is difficult to get to shoot consistently well. Note I said consistently well. Mine also seems sensitive to bullet weights. It shoots the 150's best.
2. If you are shooting off a bipod, I assume that you are NOT shooting from a bench. Bipods seem to be designed to shoot off a soft surface (like the ground!) and not a hard surface, like a bench. It tends to "bounce off" for want of a better term.
Peter (no "S")

I would venture a guess that your rest is suspect. With the heavy barrelled varminters, they will be way more forgiving due to all the inertia that you have to overcome. Jerk the trigger a bit on an 8-pound rifle, and it simply will move more than a 11 pound varminter. If you haven't had the trigger fixed on the Ruger get that done. Light rifle and a heavy trigger equals crappy shooting.
The triggers on these are easy to fix if you're somewhat mechanical in mindset. You just have to cut the angle down, so it isn't compressing the spring as you pull the trigger.

Peter, Yes - bi-pod prone. My trigger on this tang safety rifle feels quite good and not so heavy. I would guess it is about 3 1/2+ lbs but pretty crisp.

H-414, for sure.
With bullets over 160 grain my old CZ full stock would do better with RL-19.
But if you want to use the 7X57 and reall make it an open country round,414 is where to start...tj3006

JStevens,

Very interesting; thanks for posting.

I have a quick question for you. You mentioned using H414 in the 9.3's. Would you care to share the components used? Brass, primer, and bullet weight, that is; I'm not asking for the weight of charge used. (Some people get nervous about doing that.)

The reason I'm asking is that I've had trouble achieving desired results in my 9.3x62 using H414, which is puzzling to me because that powder works well in all my other rifles and, likewise, my 9.3 seems to work well with several other powders I've tried. Yet I see 9.3 loads listed for H414 in several other sources. Perhaps it's partly due to my rifle's appetite. I'm just curious.

I think you use Ramshot Big Game to great effect in that round, if I'm remembering correctly.

And as for my 7x57, in my experience it liked just about every powder I fed it, using 140 gr. bullets.

If a 7 x 57 won't shoot well, try a load of 40 grains of IMR 3031, with ANY bullet weight...

may not be the fastest velocity you will can squeeze out of it, but it will be pretty respectable...

and it is also awfully accurate, regardless of how worn the barrel is... same with a load of 25 grains of SR 4759.... accurate in worn out barrels or finicky ones...

as for H 414, has anyone had an experience where that powder didn't work well in about ANY rifle cartridge for accuracy???

I must have a really slow lot of H-414 as the loads I've tried is a full 200-250 fps slower than the manual predicts. The only use I've found it good for is in a .30-30 with 35 grains under a 190 grain cast bullet.

Joe,
If your using book loads then keep in mind that they load the 7x57 very mild because of the soft actions out there and a fear of frivalous law suits..

I used 4350 for 20 years in my 7x57s but my chronograph tells me H414 will give you more velocity with less pressure than any other powder and I have tested it throughly and by a substantial margin of several hundred FPS or more..

I don't know what your problem is to cause those results but they need checking out for sure...

When I chronograph I shoot 10 shots and take out the low and the high and average out the 8 left..I also reload one case and trim it as many times as I can until it wears out..I mic case heads when working up loads.

Be assured that my loads are way over book suggested so I won't quote them to you..You have to figure that out based on your particular rifle..

My loads are safe in my rifle and they are max and I get 8 to 10 reloadings from them, then toss them and buy new brass...I use Fed 210 primers and WW, Rem, Lapua or RWS brass. I get very fast velocity and great accuracy in every 7x57 I have owned or own..

Also I use a 06 length magazine and my guns are throated to fit the magazine so I can seat the bullets way out there.

My 7x57 can duplicate the .280, unless one makes the same alterations on the .280....

oldun, I OWE YOU! Just for grins I tried your load today: 53 grains H1000 and 175 grain Nosler Partitions. 5 shot group at right around 1 inch. From a gun that has never shot 175's well! The load seems very mild, but I did not chronograph it. I will confirm with another 5 shot group and chrono then. I have never tried H1000 in the 7x57 before. My gun is a CZ550 Full stock.
Thanks again, Peter

quote:

I used 4350 for 20 years in my 7x57s but my chronograph tells me H414 will give you more velocity with less pressure than any other powder and I have tested it throughly and by a substantial margin of several hundred FPS or more..

Ray,


Ray I am curious to know how you determined that H414 will give less pressure than IMR 4350? Did you do pressure tests at the lab? Quickload tells us the opposite. What seems quite obvious is that H414 will yield higher velocities, but that comes at a price of higher overall pressure. If we do not chase the velocity demon to get the last drop of velocity out of the rifle, we can get comfortably by with other powders such as Rottweil R903, Somchem S355 & S365 just to mention a few.

I think it would be an eye opener to see the pressure of the follwing in a 7mm-bore size in a 7x57 mm case .... "... a 160 gr. Nosler partition down range at 2915 in my 26" barrel and surprisingly enough in my 22" tube it goes 2933 FPS, guess its a faster barrel

Warrior

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
oldun, I OWE YOU! Just for grins I tried your load today: 53 grains H1000 and 175 grain Nosler Partitions. 5 shot group at right around 1 inch. From a gun that has never shot 175's well! The load seems very mild, but I did not chronograph it. I will confirm with another 5 shot group and chrono then. I have never tried H1000 in the 7x57 before. My gun is a CZ550 Full stock.
Thanks again, Peter

Peter that's great
I'll be interested to hear what your chrono tells you.

Hey Warrior
Remember you said

quote:

QuickLoad shows H414 to be too fast burning for 160 grainers, you do not get a complete powder burn (96.7%}

Maybe the missing 3.3% of powder that burns ahead of the barrel has something to do with this. Your theory that faster powders burn less completely is very interesting and will shed new light on many problems in reloading. Will powder that burns outside the barrel continue to accelerate the bullet? Maybe that is worth an extra 100fps or two. I will try some pistol powder in my 308. If I use enough and can get half of it to burn outside the barrel some fancy speeds may be the result.

/

7x57 mm:

As you move up in bullet weight, you will want a slower burning powder,
S335 is better at the light weights starting at 110 grains out to 130 grains
S355 is great in the range of 140 gr to 160 grains
S365 is better at 170 grains to 175 grains

It has to do with bullet weight (SD) and pressure generation - this is foremost the issue
Foul burning comes second as is it is a much lesser issue, marginal but there.

H414 is EXACTLY the same as Win. 760. Look in the latest Hodgdon reloading magazine. Where H414 is listed as a choice, you will also see Win. 760 listed with EXACTLY the same charges, pressures & velocities. I've also confirmed this via e-mail with Hodgdon. Similarly, H110 and Win. 296 are exactly the same powder.

What is really funny, is that reloading manuals other than Hodgdon, list different loads for the above powder pairs though the differences are minor. It's like they didn't know they're the same.

Warrior.

Don't ya just love it when a cartridge which is 116 years old still attracts so much interest.
The 7x57 is still one of the best deer cartridges .