quote:

The 7x57 is still one of the best deer cartridges .

Oldon,

By virtue of the fast twist rate of the 7 x 57 mm at 1 turn for every 8.66 inches it provides the flexibility that it could yield good performance with the current crop of bullets ranging from 110 grains out to 175 grains, making it even more flexible than it was some decades ago and it is mostly so by the introduction of more monolithic brands that became available.

The low recoil in the caliber and its good bullet performance at modest velocity (and modest pressure) with soft expanding bullets remain as its biggest virtue and on top a pleasure to shoot - simply a dandy.

I just wish to share another piece of information with reloaders and the use of Quickload as an intial aid in developing loads for the 7x57 mm.

QuickLoad states the case capacity in water at 59.5 grains of water:

Actual cace capacities are as follows:

Winchester ........ 59.5 gr
Remington ......... 57.2 gr
Federal .............. 56.5 gr

These are substantial differences and can easily equate to 6 grains of powder and more in terms of ball powders of which H414 is a good example that will elevate pressures even higher at top loads way above what CIP recommnends. Not good to push pressures in soft K98 Argentine 1909 actions which abound in the caliber.

I still have to measure PMP and Norma cases, and will update later when I have a moment. So please adjust these case capacities in Quickload when modelling is done. Point being that a top load in a Winchester case may be way over the top with a Federal case or a PMP case that is generally known for smaller case capacities. I just need to finally confirm that in the 7x57 mm PMP case and put a value to it.

Warrior

Warrior, (and/or Alf) I am curious, so perhaps you can help me out with Quickload. My book says a max load for a 168 grain bullet and H1000 is 52 grains, and shows it as a compressed load. I loaded 53 grains, with powder into the neck of the case, but with very low recoil. I plan on chronographing this load but can Quickload predict the velocity? Also what pressure does QL predict? Suppose I try 55 grains? These were WW cases BTW.
Thanks very much, Peter.

oldun, here are my chrono results for the 53 grain H1000 and 175 gr. Nosler Partition load:
av: 2378
extreme spread: 39
SD: 17.5
Another good group! I will post pictures later.
Peter.

quote:

Originally posted by oldun:

The 7x57 is still one of the best deer cartridges

And it will certainly work well on things much larger than deer too, as Bell demonstrated.

quote:

Originally posted by Peter:
oldun, here are my chrono results for the 53 grain H1000 and 175 gr. Nosler Partition load:
av: 2378
extreme spread: 39
SD: 17.5
Another good group! I will post pictures later.
Peter.

Peter.
What length of barrel were they fired through?
Thanks.

Oldun, I will have to measure it. The gun is a CZ 550 full stock.
Peter.

The 7x57 would be, hands down, the most practical rifle cartridge for me.

Trouble is, I'm not always practical.

So this means the cartridge may be smarter than I am?!?!?

quote:

Trouble is, I'm not always practical.

So this means the cartridge may be smarter than I am?!?!?

Hey now that comment resembles me.

oldun, the barrel length is 20 inches from the muzzle to where it screws into the receiver.
Peter.

OK, here (hopefully) are the two pictures of targets shot with my CZ550 using 175 grain Nosler Partitions and 53 grains of H1000.




Peter.

In theory any load for the 174 grain bullet in the 303 British should be safe in the 7 x 57. So you should be getting a safe maximum of just under 2500fps with a 24" barrel. Any faster and I think that you are coming up to maximum.

However the two cartridges are different and I would take the load for the 303 as an indication of the sort of load that you might consider very loosely for your 7 x 57.

The 140 grain bullet was that used by Rigby, of course, in the .275 Rigby being their "updated" version of the 7 x 57.

quote:

The 140 grain bullet was that used by Rigby, of course, in the .275 Rigby being their "updated" version of the 7 x 57.

Wasn't the 140 grain regulated .275 known as the No. 2 while the 173 grain version known as the No. 1?

I am picking up my No. 1 in 7x57 tomorrow. Had a Hicks Accurizer installed on it. Will see if it causes any improvement. Right now it is shooting 1.5" on average for 3 shots at 100 yards. First two shots are money and the third is always flying off somewhere. I figure that if the Hicks makes it worse, I can always take it off and try it on another No. 1.

Plan on taking it to Tanzania in September for plains game. Going to use the Hornady 175 round nose. I don't think the 175 generates enough speed to give rise for the use any exotic bullets.

Good luck on your upcoming hunt and please give us a report on your return.

Warrior/Alf,
Please note that my rifle has 06 bottom metal opened up just a tad, and my custom throat allows me to seat a 175 gr. HOrnady in half way to the cannalure or about 284 deep as I recall. This also applies to the Brno M21 and M22 as they are set up accordingly...Therefore I am, in essance, shooting a 7x57 Imp. but gained the extra powder space by seating the bullets out as opposed to blowing out the shoulder...It has worked for me for near 30 years...It is a grand cartridge although for the sake of who knows what my latest rifle I am building started out as a 7x57 but I have decided on a .280 mostly because I have never really owned a .280!! maybe I will have a long throat on it and kick the 7 mags butt, who knows.

Hi Ray,

I have noticed that you have a souped-up 7x57 mm. I like mine with a shorter barrel to run through the bush, and use bullets ranging from 160 to 175 grains, favourite being the 160 gr Rhino Solid shank for their sterling performance on Blue Wildebeest. I am aslo very happy with the Barnes-X and the new TSX version. For plains shooting, I am going to try the 130 gr GS-HV bullet and I am curious to see how it works out at or around the advertised 3,000 fps. Will also pressure test my final load to be certain where I am at (to measure is to know, they say).

Warrior

Warrior/Truvelloshooter/Chris,
You go from stirring on one thread to stirring on another. You just cannot accept that there is a different concept with GSC and you carry on causing one disruption after the other on the Forum.
You say:

quote:

I like mine with a shorter barrel to run through the bush

And then:

quote:

For plains shooting, I am going to try the 130 gr GS-HV bullet and I am curious to see how it works out at or around the advertised 3,000 fps.

So, despite the fact that we say twice on our load data page that the "Do Not Exceed" speed applies to 24" barrels, you want to load your shorter barrel to 3000fps. Are you being deliberately stupid just to start another argument?

You have said many times that you prefer not to load to maximum levels but now you want to do so. Why?

You call it the "advertised" 3000fps as though that is the speed we say you MUST achieve. Why? It is the maximum DO NOT EXCEED speed as you will find with any set of load data. Do you always load to maximum with other bullets? If not, why not? They also "advertise" maximum levels that must not be exceeded so why not load up to them?

Understand this: Just because you are too stupid to grasp the concept around which we build our bullets, we will not stop doing so. You can stop the broken record song, about how you like your bullets slow and heavy, that you have been singing for the last six or seven years now. We have all heard it a million times.

I do not care about your point of view, I do not care about how you think a bullet should be designed and I do not care whether you use our products or not. I do care about your agenda of slander and damage and, whether it is based in stupidity or malice, is no longer of importance. I will not allow you to continue with it. You talk rubbish about our products and I will expose you for the fraud that you are.

Gerard,

You act like a rabid dog my friend in the rage that you try to explain reloading to me and to create such a cloud of smoke on something as simple as this. I am not the idiot that you accuse me of. Incidentally the length of my barrel is 600 mm or 23.6". You just assumed things to be otherwise in a clairvoyant fashion.

I'll start at the recommended "START" load, will work them up in increments like one should do, and careffully assess what happens up towards your max safe limit of 3,000 fps, of which I still do not know your method of establishing it. However, for the moment, I will accept it till the results tell me otherwise.

I have my own way how I do it, and I will pressure test my loads and project them towards the 3,000 fps mark as a test load for the Lab. That is the kind of caustion I am prepared to take and pay the cost thereof. It does not mean I will shoot or settle on your 3,000 fps ... it could be somewhat lower, or even lower than somewahat lower.

Trusting this is clear to you and that I do not have to explain myself another 3 times to you.



Warrior

Oh Gerard, come on! Everyone was happily ignoring him and the "did you use a pressure lab" and the "Quickload god" and the "faster powder really takes longer to burn". Now you start this. Let him go.

My Model 70 Featherweight will shoot about anything you feed it with groups that rival a fine varmint rifle...not picky like my Rugers are... but it is long throated like my Rugers..

I've kinda settled on two load for this rifle..

44 grains of IMR 4895 with a 140 grain Ballistic Tip for deer with an MV of 2800 fps out of a 22 inch barrel...

and 40 grains of IMR 3031 with a 160 grain Speer Mag Tip for an MV of 2700 fps...

quote:

QuickLoad states the case capacity in water at 59.5 grains of water:

Actual cace capacities are as follows:

Winchester ........ 59.5 gr
Remington ......... 57.2 gr
Federal .............. 56.5 gr

These are substantial differences and can easily equate to 6 grains of powder and more in terms of ball powders

For the larget majority of rifle powders the specific gravity is about 1 which equates to 1 gram per CC. The specific gravity of water is also 1.
The case capacities above indicate 3 grains max delta in water capacity. 59.5-56.5 = 3 grains.
This is equivalent to the volume difference of only 3 grains of powder not 6.

Warrior,
You can easily do that with a long box and a long throated 7x57 without any problem..I have shot the 130 in my long thoated rifle, with the bullet just barely seated, but seemed firm enough to hold, and I got great accuracy with the GS Customs bullets and also with the Speer `130 gr. bullets that are a very good deer bullet btw..

Both bullets are deadly killers and both leave large exit holes in deer size animals..For all around shoot anything that walks I opt for the 160 or perhaps it is a 150 gr., not sure, but its a heavy GS Customs bullet..

quote:

Originally posted by Rat Motor:

quote:

QuickLoad shows H414 to be too fast burning for 160 grainers, you do not get a complete powder burn (96.7%}

You figure when powder is too fast it does not give a complete burn but the slower a powder is the more likely it will be to give a complete burn?

Well, now that's a new one! You get a less-complete powder burn with a FASTER powder--- unusual concept, to say the least.

Ray

quote:

my custom throat allows me to seat a 175 gr. HOrnady in half way to the cannalure or about 284 deep as I recall.

When you throat your barrel out that much does your accuracy suffer with the shorter 150/160 grain pills? Are you pretty much restricted to shooting the 175s?

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
Ray's claimed 2915 fps load is possible with H414, +/- 82 to 83 grains will achieve that in a 27 inch barrel ( expansion ratio = 8.7) at a peak pressure around 62,000 psi or even more.
(and it does not need to be a "fast barrel" per se)

Ummmmmm....lets see.....82-83 grains H-414 in a 7 X 57 ..........what loading book are you using?

Picked up my No. 1 with the Hicks Accurizer installed today. It made previous best had been 1.5" and now the rifle is shooting 5/8" groups. I shoot 3 shot groups with the rifle because it heats up pretty quick. This rifle seems to really like Hornady brass. My rifle is throated way long and my loads are not quite 1/2 grain over max in from the latest Speer manual using Hornady 175 grain round noser pills.

My smith told me that about half the time the accurizer helps and the other half it harms performance. Glad it worked for me. Will install one on my heavy barreled No. 1 25-06 here before long. I just can't believe how well this thing shoots. Still need to chronograph the load.

Also dropped off my Spanish 7x57 at the smith to have the barrel turned in a bit. Too much head space. Look forward to some lighter loads in it -- nothing special, chopped with a poorly cut down stock, but I bought it for $70.00 when I was 14 years old and killed a few deer with it long before I knew what dangerous headspace was.

D

Accuracy in mine is very good with 140TSX and 160 Noslers, even though it is quite long throated. I can seat a 139 Hornady just deep enough to stay in the case and they shoot less than 1MOA with H414. You just have to use flat bases-no boattails for obvious reasons. You can use the Barnes TSX boattails, as the solid copper bullet is long for its weight.

quote:

Originally posted by 390ish:
Picked up my No. 1 with the Hicks Accurizer installed today. It made previous best had been 1.5" and now the rifle is shooting 5/8" groups.

That's just GREAT.

quote:

Originally posted by PeterS:
Do any of you guys with experience have loads or formulas for load data (ie. multiply br 5%) for a good strong action like the Remington 700 or Ruger M77? Thanks, Peter.

Yes, firing mine in a Winchester M-70, Mauser M66, Mannlicher-Schoenauer MCA and a Mannlicher M-72. Getting 2444 fps with 160 grain Nosler Accubonds and groups in the half inch and three quarter inch range.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
Ray's claimed 2915 fps load is possible with H414, +/- 82 to 83 grains will achieve that in a 27 inch barrel ( expansion ratio = 8.7) at a peak pressure around 62,000 psi or even more.
(and it does not need to be a "fast barrel" per se)

Ummmmmm....lets see.....82-83 grains H-414 in a 7 X 57 ..........what loading book are you using?

Jack Daniels Fifth edition. Now that's loaded. roger

/

El Deguello

quote:

Well, now that's a new one! You get a less-complete powder burn with a FASTER powder--- unusual concept, to say the least.

When Warrior posted that one I thought that was the kind of mistake that any Reloading 101 class should have prevented. Mine did. He comes up with these doozies every now and then and it kind of makes one wonder whether he has any real experience or whether he is all hat and no cattle.

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
Ray's claimed 2915 fps load is possible with H414, +/- 82 to 83 grains will achieve that in a 27 inch barrel ( expansion ratio = 8.7) at a peak pressure around 62,000 psi or even more.
(and it does not need to be a "fast barrel" per se)

Ummmmmm....lets see.....82-83 grains H-414 in a 7 X 57 ..........what loading book are you using?

Jack Daniels Fith edition. Now that's loaded. roger

Only an idiot would take information from an open forum on guns/reloading and reload with it unless it stood the test of sanity. Some of these glare at us....others are more difficult to detect.

Warning to everyone:
internet information may me as high as 90% correct.......but we shouldn't reload on merely a 90% confidence.....I want to find a manual!

/

quote:

Originally posted by ALF:
Sorry it was a typo the load is 52-53 gr H 414 on a 140 gr bullet for a 27 inch barrel to achieve the 2900 fps @ an approximated pressure level of 62,000 psi

Alf....I run some of my own numbers on this and while I think it's a couple grains powder too much I'd agree that it'd produce about 3,000 +/- ft/sec.

I'd guess that the pressure on this load will be about 68,000 PSI.....but regardless one must work up to their own max!

Even if one worked up to 50 grains he'd have a helluva long range rifle for 200 pound game! ......and he must work up to that goal as well!

In any event either H-4350 or H-414 should deliver 2,900'/sec from even a 24" barrel in the 7 X 57......Ray's comments are right on!

Thanks for the clarification of the typo!

/

In SOME long throated 7x57's using Winchester cases only, the 52-53 gr of H414 is a 62000 psi load on my pressure trace and will go right at 3000 fps. It will certainly not work for all rifles, but does in many of the Rugers, certainly it is not for the 93-95 Mausers or anything but a modern action with Win. cases in a long throated rifle. That is the only problem with a 7x57, variation from rifle to rifle is huge, sometimes over 200 fps with the same loads, so you have to use common sense. The old Hodgon manual and the Hornady show 52 gr H414 (w760) with a 139-140 grain bullet.

/

Alf,
Vhitavuori list max pressure for the 7x57 as;

CIP 340 MPa-(49,300psi)
SAAMI 46000cup/51,00psi

Are these or your figures correct? Or are they saying something other than you are?
Thanks.

/