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I am looking at buying a new 30.06 . I have narrowed the choice down to a Model 70 sporter or a Ruger 77 wood and chrome moly . Here the model 70 is 50% more expensive . The Ruger would need a new mainspring and a better recoil pad but comes with mounts .Both will probably need work on the trigger . Which do people think is the better rifle ? Mark | ||
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The simple question is: is the Win half again better than the Ruger? I'd opt for the Ruger in a heart beat at those prices. Aim for the exit hole | |||
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Assuming these are both new, why would the Ruger require a new mainspring? NRA Patron Life Member Benefactor Level | |||
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I don't feel a recoil pad is even necessary on a 30/06 . DRSS Chapuis 9.3 x 74 R RSM. 416 Rigby RSM 375 H&H | |||
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I have had both. They are both very good middle of the road rifles. They work and shoot. I use the new Model 70 made in South Carolina by FN. In deference to Todd, I agree - the Model 70 and the features are "over sold", but not "over rated". What is over rated is the cult following of the pre-64 Model 70. I struggle to understand how a 50 year old rifle and most likely much older can be "better" than what FN is making with CNC machining and better quality steel. I have had several of each rifle you ask about, none have shot worse than 2" groups out of the box with factory ammo. All of mine but one shoot 3/4" or better with handloads. My one lousy shooter (1 1/2" groups) will get sold soon but is a fine rifle. I just like them as accurate as possible. You cannot make a mistake in your choice. Good luck. | |||
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Mark And the loyal. There was a time not so long ago I would of put my faith and next trophy in the hands of a 77. I don't know what went wrong. Our new Africans in 416 don't feed, your 35 jammed in the chamber and your currant 3006 despite countless attempts to get it to work, is still grouping like a small epileptic child throwing stones. The 70 would be a better choice given that by nature you hunt with blinkers on. Regards Cooper kid | |||
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My favorite for many many years has been the Model 70. Thru the years I have owned many and presently own only 2,a classic SS in 375H&H with a custom laminated stock and a 1939 custom 30-06. I have owned several Rugers including nice Magnum with the quarter rib. Don't care for Ruger bolt guns at all for anything. I do however own 3 large bore No.1's,a 9.3x74r,a 405Win and a 450/400 which ithink are as good as it gets. These are of course personal likes and dislikes that all are allowed. As far as a Ruger doing anything a Mdl70 will then a Savage will do anything a Ruger will ,in spades and probably much cheaper. Hamburger is not the same as a Ribeye but is beef and nourishing and I feel rifles are for what you want for what you want to pay. Here again just my personal opinions and likes. SCI Life Member NRA Patron Life Member DRSS | |||
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I really like the new Ruger African model and the Ruger Internationals, they have it all IMO..I have owned several of them and are nice, nice, nice..Presently have one African .338, a 7x57 and 30-06 Stainless steel, wood stocked pair or Internationals and man do they shoot good. I am a pre 64 fan and cannot understand why anyone would condem it or call it over rated, what is the basis for that? It was and is one of the finest rifles ever built IMO, I have never inspected the new FN and never will, when they replaced the mod 70 trigger they shot themselves in the foot.. My favorite rifle is and always will be a custom 98 Mauser such as G33-40, 1908 Oberndorf...but that's another post topic. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Get the Ruger and don't look back. It is stronger than the Winchester and in MO a better rifle. The only thing you will lose with the Ruger are the bragging rights.  Dennis Life member NRA | |||
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There is nothing else like a Model 70, especially a Pre-64. There are a couple reasons a Ruger is cheaper. It's a casting, and they often turn purple. An awful lot of them have aluminum floor plates, and trigger guards painted black. Many people think they are just as good, and, as you note, for a lot less money. That said, a Ferrari can be ten times as much money as a Mazda 3, and the 3 has a back seat... Both will take you to church and back on Sundays. It is often said here in America that you get what you pay for. I expect that is also true in Australia. What is the price difference for used ones there? That is a good guide. Rich | |||
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Mark, im biaised as i cant own as a leftie a winchester model 70. so the ruger 77 is my choice and still have 2. what is the price differential on a zastava model 70 30-06 in your place? the recoil is not that bad at all with the ruger 30-06 factory pad. Phil | |||
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I have had both and my choice would be the Ruger. | |||
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I love the tang safety Ruger. I started buying other brands when they went to the Mark II. The current model 77 does not have the finish of the older guns, it is more a flat finish. I like the plum finish that the guns take on with age, as do most Ruger collectors, I might add. My choice would depend on fit, chambering and feel of the gun. If all were equal, I'd buy the Ruger. If not, the current Winchester is probably the best one ever built. | |||
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I recently got a stainless Ruger Compact Magnum. I wouldnt buy another for free. Fit and finish was awful, burrs everywhere wearing out the cases fast. It will not shoot either. Its a 300rcm and I have tried 150, 168, 180 and 200 grain matchkings with N160, N550, Norma19 and Superformance. I dont think I have shot more than three groups under two inches. 3-4" is the norm, five shots of course. Freefloating didnt help so bedding is next. I have some Ruger handguns and they are great. I'm pretty sure the Superredhawk shoots better than the Hawkeye. | |||
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My last 77 was a 257 Roberts that was going to be my sheep rifle. it was bedded and was a 3"er and shot pretty good with selected loads, but I could never get bughole group and it didn't feel great in my hands. We have a point across the bay (375yds) and on the eave of my sheep hunt I put up 6 targets and shot 3 with the 77 and 3 with my pre-64 30 Gibbs,, the Gibbs ended up going sheep hunting and the 77 traded for a 458 Win Mag! I tend to use more than enough gun | |||
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There is no comparison between the Ruger and the Winchester ! The Ruger is crude, the stocks are poorly designed and the actions are rough. Based on comparing the new models up for offer and the older models the Finnish is getting poorer and poorer. They kick like hell even for calibers that are supposed to be soft on recoil. Accuracy wise there are to many that are poor shooters. I have friends who get reasonable but not tack drive accuracy out of older Ruger's and then I have had and gotten rid of specimens that simply wont shoot. 3 inches at 100 yards on a rifle is not worth owning IMO. The new FN model 70 on the other hand is a refined rifle, everything about this gun works and works well right out the box. And where I live both cost about the same ! I have recently obtained a scout in 416 Ruger and a 338 win in Super grade both for the same money and the Winnie runs circles around the Ruger in every aspect. | |||
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i like em both.. they both has some drawbcks, no mare flaws ... the ruger american is nearly as ugly as a post-64 winchester coyote see, everyone makes mistakes opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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I have 2 hawkeyes, Love them. I would love one of the new M 70s to. Never heard of the FN ones not shooting well..tj3006 | |||
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Alf, You complaints had some validity with some of the older Ruger rifles but it sounds like you have little experience with the rifles Ruger has put out over the past few years. The stocks are much improved and accuracy in all that I have tried has been excellent. comparing a single 338 Win M-70 to a single 416 Ruger for accuracy is not much of a comparison. Even if the 338 and the 416 were likely to be used on similar game. Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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Phil: I'm not complaining at all, simply pointing out facts. I live in a small rural community where the majority of folks hunt for meat. They are not sophisticated shooters or reloaders, they buy stock guns, shoot the cheapest factory ammo with what can be viewed as budget glass. You get to know the guys and their guns and I can tell you based on simple first hand experience what shoots and what not. For instance I have yet to see Tikka T3 Lite topped with a 240 dollar Burris scope ( they sell them as a budget package locally) that is not a shooter. In fact I have not yet come across one that is not a tack driver out the box. The same can not be said of Ruger. They are spotty, some shoot and some are dismal ! The new FN Winchesters, they are not numerous but the ones I have seen at the rod and gun club including my own all shoot well. | |||
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I have a Ruger 416 with the short barrel. It is a fine rifle. I did find the magazine guide rails to be a little sharp, however that was easily relieved with a little wet or dry paper to smooth the rough edges. Although I have a nice pre 64 70 Winchester and a recent 70 in 270 win, my go to hunting rifle is the Ruger 338 RCM in stainless steel and a weather proof stock - a relatively light and very handy package with a good cartridge! I like it. | |||
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I think if the original poster is talking a bout a new 77 and a new Win M70 he can't go wrong with either one. I have some of each and been around a few more and both companies are making nice firearms. I am a M70 fan at heart so I would always have a soft spot for them however the Ruger Hawkeyes and M77's are nice rifles. Everyone has an opinion and for some people one bad experience and they are put off for life. I am an example of that, when Accubonds freshly hit the market I used them on an elk and even though I killed the bull I was disappointed with the penetration so I went back to Sierra's. it's been more than 10 years and I'm just starting to think about giving them another chance.... | |||
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Anyone who is bad mouthing Rugers has not owned one in the last ten years. Old ones used some third party barrels of which some did not shoot well; not for a couple of decades now. Ruger makes its own barrels and they are fine. I have 77s, MKIIs and Model 70s. Worst old 77 I had would shoot into about one inch at 100. It was a flat bolt 308. Best one is my new 9.3, Hawkeye; it will shoot under one inch. Get which ever one you like and can afford. All will do the job reliably. Best for the money? Ruger. | |||
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Like everything else man made all Rifles are not created equal ! It is not a case of badmouthing this or that brand it is simply pointing out differences. The New FN Winchester is not the same animal as the older model 70 CRF either ! The new gun has a distinct "Browning flavour" to it ! The blueing on the Winchester has the same depth and quality as the Browning. Not that i'm a Browning fan per se but I suspect they share the same barrels. | |||
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Have you had a look at the rifles made by Montana Rifle Company. CRF action and old-style M70 trigger setup. Worth a look IMO. | |||
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and darn well worth the difference. /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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what Vapodog said, plus one! Just ask your retailor what the used value comparison is like, and the average time either sits on his resale rack. I can buy all the rugers I want for about $500, OM 70's start at around $800 and go way up for magnum calibers. Rich | |||
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There are a number of very good reasons that Ruger rifles are the default rifle for a high percentage of Alaskan guides and hunters and rugged reliability is one of the most important. Anyone who claims the 30-06 is ineffective has either not tried one, or is unwittingly commenting on their own marksmanship Phil Shoemaker Alaska Master guide FAA Master pilot NRA Benefactor www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com | |||
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My Hawkeye is new enough to have the Rugermade "good" barrels. That clearly doesnt make it shoot. The gun should never have left the factory. Its like a kit that still need a lot of work. Only reason they assemble them is that they are easier to ship that way. Image of muzzle: https://www.dropbox.com/s/gs8x...ro9/Munning.JPG?dl=0 It shouldnt be a lottery what accuracy you get from a new gun. | |||
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The M70 is the finest bolt action out there for an off the shelf gun.... | |||
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Phil: I hear you and exactly why I bought a 416 Ruger in the guide gun package. But that argument still does not detract from the fact that the FN Winchester is better built, infinitely better finished (where it matters) than the Ruger and more accurate out the box. Ruger's recipe for a rugged Northern hemisphere DG hunting gun goes a long way to solve some ( not all) of the requirements of such a rifle and that I concede whole heartedly ! | |||
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No comparison--RUGER wins this race by a 100 miles with all things considered. | |||
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If you're gonna buy a Ruger, might as well go all the way and buy a Ruger American Rifle. Probably be more accurate... | |||
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I agree, and fixed that for you opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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My choice would be a 30-06 guide gun in the Ruger. Who is the importer for Ruger and Winchester and which one has better service? Mialls? I lived in Australia up until 18 months ago, customer service in Australia pretty much sucks. So that would be my choice. | |||
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I like Rugers never had any trouble with them I like the MKIIs the best all total I think I have 6 or 7 77s. I also have Remington, Winchester, Mauser, Springfield's, Savages, Marlins, Mossbergs, And a couple others I can't think of right now. I prefer the Ruger stainless MKII over all of them. | |||
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Buy the one you like. It will be your gun, its got to float your boat. I've had a bunch of both. They all worked and shot well. If you pick the Ruger, before you start replacing springs and adding a pad, shoot it a bit. I've never needed any new springs on any of my Rugers. And that little thin red pad on the new Hawkeyes actually softens recoil, unlike the old red ones that were made of rocks. Bfly Work hard and be nice, you never have enough time or friends. | |||
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one thing every hawkeye and mk 2 owner should know, That angle stock screw needs to be real real tight 70 lbs if you torq them down. ...tj3006 | |||
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I don't own a winchester - excellent guns just don't make them left handed. I own a few rugers - mainly 375 alaskan and african and 30/06 and a 300 win mag on order. The alaskan and african 375 are the best value for money I have seen out there. 30/06 I sent to Wayne at AHR to fix up. The gun is really nice. The trigger on the rugers are good enough that Wayne does not replace them. The 300 win mag will go to him too. I have been much impressed with Ruger products. I have not always been a fan of ruger - the company not its products. Historically I have tried to buy anything but rugers. 375R changed that. Mike | |||
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Thanks for the opinions , as my friend Cooper kid has said there have been issues in the past . My major concern is accuracy . The other issues are easily fixed . With past M77's I have had misfires due to an inadequate mainspring . In the most recent effort I had so many misfires with my 9.3x62 I had to withdraw from the International Big Game shoot held here in Melbourne . The recoil pad replacement is to give me greater stock length as I am taller than average . My main interest is members feeling about accuracy with the Ruger vs the Winchester . Mark | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles winchester Mod70 vs Ruger 77
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