So, I may be into a bit of cash shortly, most of it is already spoken for by the house/car/wife/baby. But I'll definitely have some left over that I can set aside. Now I've got a few guns, enough for what I "need". But I look through my collection and I see a synthetic M70, a pair of synthetic Vanguards, a stainless/synthetic M700, a stainless/laminated M77, a synthetic Savage, and a stainless/laminated 1895 Marlin. All functional guns which have been dependable and accurate.

But none, when I look at them, really say "heirloom". Honestly they're all pretty well cared for and do what they do well, but none of them really look special. I'd like to buy something to pass down to my son someday. For once, caliber is not really important (.270/7mm Mag/.30-06 most likely) since there is already a lot of overlap in my assortment due to fairly common range of game being taken. My last wood gun was a Browning Medallion, but it was no beauty with bipod and oversized scope and ballistics chart taped to it!

So I've been browsing the net looking at some pieces that are in my price range. Here's sort of what I've discovered so far that fit the bill more or less:

Remington M700 CDL
Winchester M70 Sporter Deluxe
Ruger No.1 Standard
Browning Medallion
Weatherby Mark V Sporter
Sako M85 Sporter
Kimber Model 8400 Classic
Sauer S 202 Classic
T/C Icon Classic

These are what I can think of off the top of my head as far as attractive wood-stocked rifles. Some are much more affordable than others, while some are interesting and different enough to make the cut even though they may be pricey. Some of these I have no clue about, and I'm sure I'm missing other viable options as well. Price IS an object, but price/performance will be taken into account as well so as to not leave the higher-end rifles out of the running altogether.

I don't want to go through process of restocking a new rifle, so I'm looking for something that maybe isn't necessarily the finest figured piece but has some depth and warmth to it. All of the above seem to, and since I'm both torn with indecision and blessed with a generous time frame, I turn to you, AR community, to help me on my quest and provide enlightening insight and petty argument along the way.

Tell me about these guns, as well as about some I may have missed that might be in my price range.

A gun becomes an heirloom because of the stories that it tells, not because of the way it looks. If my Father left me a rifle that he had used on many hunting trips, or hunts, I would treasure it regardless of it's looks.
Save the money and take you Son hunting.

understand - from my viewpoint i'd look for a vintage old super america kimber

Almost my entire collection of rifles are Sakos, but these are the older ones. I think the 85 is overpriced and somewhat pedestrian.

And while I don't personally care for the three position safety, the Kimber M8400 is by far the classiest factory rifle available right now. I bought one used from a "would be" first time hunter at a bargain a few months ago. The quality of the (claro?) walnut is excellent, as is the fit and finish. Accuracy has been outstanding. And the rifle weighs what a sporting rifle should weigh without extra mass in the barrel, action, and stock.

So, my vote is for the Kimber.

I would suggest a few examples that are already classic heirlooms.

M61 Win in 22 LR
M52 Win Sporter
M54 Anshutz Sporter

M70 SuperGrade.
M101 Pigeon grade

Marlin M94 Cl in 25-20, 32-20 or .218.
The equivalent Browning lever gun
A Browning Low Wall Hornet.

Buy the nicest old Winchester lever action you can afford.

An heirloom in my opinion is something that mattered to the person that owned it.
It is about giving your son the best you ever had, the one you would not part with for money, but only for love.
Figure out which one you like the very best and give him that one.
Otherwise it is not an heirloom, it is just another gun that he will fool himself into thinking you actually cared about.

Heirlooms are not about the object, they are about the spirit that has been put into them.

quote:

Originally posted by TerryR:
A gun becomes an heirloom because of the stories that it tells, not because of the way it looks. If my Father left me a rifle that he had used on many hunting trips, or hunts, I would treasure it regardless of it's looks.
Save the money and take you Son hunting.

This is actually the point of it, you see. My son is 15 months old and has much growing and learning to do before he is ready to come afield with me. When he's old enough, I'd like to pass something special on to him, something that will see long and hard hunting and have stories to tell, something that stands apart from the rest of them as something really special. It certainly won't be a "safe queen", it'll be a hunting rifle for me just like any other, but I'd like it to be a cut above the "regular" stuff I already have. None of what I have is "special", they're just tools. I will always see them as such. He may see them differently some day, but I'd like to give him something special that has been all over this province and taken all manner of big game.

Mikey, I personally think that it really has not a darn thing to do with your son at this point.
I do appreciate your feelings however, I have a seven year old son and I know where you are at, and what it all means to you.
But honestly forget about him for now, bring him up right and give him guns that fit him where he is at in his development.
Then when the time is right, and you will know I do believe without being told by anyone except God,, give him the one you use and like the most.
And I can assure you of one thing, it won't make a damn bit of difference to him if it is wood, or composite.
What will mean something to him will be that it was his Dads gun.
He will want your tool, the one with your fingerprints worn into the stock.
And you will love watching him use it and know that that is why you bought it originally.

Don't buy a pretty wood and steel gun, as I said figure out which one you would keep if you could only have one, and that is your heirloom rifle.

Personally, one gun that I think looks really nice is the Remington Model 700 CDL SF Limited Edition. The wood looks pretty nice and it has a stainless barrel. That is a look that I really like since the stainless seems to make the wood stand out more. I am not sure about the caliber which is a .257 Roberts since I have never shot one, but if nothing else it looks pretty nice. Just my opinion. Take it as you will.

Out of the ones you mentioned I think the Kimber. I got one last year and like it. However, I just got a Pre-64 Winchester M-70 in .300 H&H would get the nod.

I'm definitely biased here but my choice would be a pre-64, Mod. 70 in the caliber of my choice. If Cooper hadn't donated money to Osama, I'd even suggest one of those in your favorite caliber too.
Bear in Fairbanks

I agree to going with a pre 64 model 70, a great classic and something your son may not be able to afford when the time comes...I have one for each of my three kids and am glad to have set them aside.

My vote goes to Sauer. Extremly precise and elegant made.

I have two Kimber Clasics. The Kimber can have realy good or plain wood so shop around. The top rifle is good and the bottom is a bit plain but the one on the left "Browning Medalion" is realy plain but has a custom checker re-cut and hand rub oil finish.

Buy yourself a nice double rifle... Prices are really reasonably right now, and after using it for a number of years, you will make money on it if you want to sell it.

I practise what i preach,





DM

Plastic guns are disposable and have no soul. You have the right idea. The guns I was passed down were all wood, they have handling marks from years of hunting and the blue was worn off some of the parts. The wood had turned dark from the oils in hands were they were carried. They were owned by men who appreciated and respected what they had and took care of them. They could have bought cheaper but made the extra sacrifice to own quality.

I too am collecting a nice brace of rifles to hand down to those that survive me one day.

If I was going to buy one factory gun and hunt it for a lifetime and pass it down one day the Merkel KR-1 would probably be at the top of my list. As a matter of fact I'm seriously thinking about moving a few guns and buying one myself.



Terry

This is really quite simple, for something to become a heirloom it first must be cherished.
You truly should simply decide what kind of new rifle that you are wanting to buy, because this really has not a thing to do with your son at this stage.
You want to buy a new rifle for yourself, and that is great, you also want to justify it by thinking you will be buying a heirloom for your son.
That is also great, but the thing is is that heilooms are not bought, they are developed.

Buy the rifle that YOU want, that YOU will carry and use.
Buy what YOU like or else you will not use it, and if it is not special to you then it will just be another gun and won't have much meaning to your son either.

in my mind, a rifle becomes a "heirloom" only after it has served its' owner over a period of years, and has the scars to prove it. if the rifle you select is to be an heirloom, you are going to have to hunt with it, lots of hunting with it. to the point that it becomes your primary rifle. after time it will take on the "heirloom" persona. until then, it's just another rifle in the safe.

heck, just get any wood stocked rifle you want and keep taking her to the woods. every time your son looks up at you when you two are on the hunt, have that same rifle in your hands. then, in your sons mind (which is far more important than what you think), you will have a "heirloom", and i bet he will want it.

I have to agree with bucko & LBGuy. When your son sees you lift the rifle with confidence and sees the animals fall, that will mean much more than cosmetics.
My dad shot a pump action 270 for a long time. Everything thing hit ended up in the freezer.
Dad is still with us but the rifle is gone.
The younger brother traded it away, what a tragic mistake!!

From your list I would pick the Ruger, sort of, I would look for a 1A with good wood. Like the others have said though, to be an heirloom it needs some history. My Dad only owned one rifle in his life as far as I know, a Savage 99B in .30-30 that he paid $35.00 for when he was making $30.00 a week. I killed my first big game animal with it and I have it in the safe now. I will pass it down to one of my grandsons one day and the other one will get my Ruger 1A .270. A rifle that I have taken a lot of game with and hunt with a bunch. I have always loved the old Savage but it took on a whole new meaning when my Dad passed away on the 3rd. of January a few weeks short of his 80th. birthday. Your son will love what ever you give him but it will be more special if you love it too!

quote:

Plastic guns are disposable and have no soul. You have the right idea.

Can't agree with that at all. I still wish here in UK we could own such as a "plastic" stocked 7.62mm L1A1 SLR (FN-FAL to those in USA) made by say BSA or Enfield. And all the Webley pistols and revolvers I ever owned, bar two, were "plastic" gripped.

That which makes a gun an "heirloom" is something else that has nothing to do with the figure of the woodwork. Indeed most Purdey and Boss guns have very plain woodwork compared to modern tastes.

As to any Weatherby? They are just too soul less to ever be an heirloom IMHO.

I've come to appreciate synthethic stocks for their utilitarian qualities but then, they're tools with which I never had sentimental bonds, i.e. I shoot them but do not amire and fondle them as I do with a nicely figured walnut stock. I'm fortunate to own a few "pretty" guns I really like.


FN-Browning B25's, "Special Chasse",12 ga


Browning B525 "Prestige", 12 ga-3"


Anschütz 1710, .22 LR


Blaser R93, .300 Win Mag



FN-Browning CCS25 o/u, 9,3x74R


Blaser R93 JagdMatch, .222 Rem


Sauer 202 with .30-06 & 7x64 bbls.

Amazing collection Andre and you summed it up beautifully.

Terry

Pick your favorite and have it restocked, you choose the wood, style and its made to fit.

Take a look at the NEW BAR's very sharp looking firearm and it comes standard with a grade 2 walnut stock. Good luck in your decision.

quote:

Originally posted by Andre Mertens:
I've come to appreciate synthethic stocks for their utilitarian qualities but then, they're tools with which I never had sentimental bonds, i.e. I shoot them but do not amire and fondle them as I do with a nicely figured walnut stock. I'm fortunate to own a few "pretty" guns I really like.


Sauer 202 with .30-06 & 7x64 bbls.

André, this describes exactly why I want a "nice" gun. I could easily sell all my guns and not really miss any of them because none of them invoke any emotion in me. That 202 does, it just screams class and deserves to be hunted with hard, laid up against a wonderful trophy and photographed, then meticulously cleaned and detailed until next time.

ozark hunter has a good idea as well, might be worth thinking of getting maybe my M700 a fancy hand-made stock? It's just a basic SPS model in .308 but wearing a Leupy 2.5-8 Vari-X III. Maybe even a fancy trigger and glass bed of some sort. It's worth looking into, if nothing else.

quote:

Pick your favorite and have it restocked, you choose the wood, style and its made to fit.

And have a unique piece you created yourself, why not ?

Whatever you leave in the rack when you leave should please him/her, The gun/ guns will evoke memories of you, thats the main thing!

+1 with bucko and the guys

Mikey, the highest quality rifle on your list is easily the 202. They are beautiful, precise, accurate rifles. Smoothest bolt you can find.

It is difficult to find extra/replacement barrels here in the states. If you shoot so much that a re-barrel is a factor, bear that in mind.

The Sako 85 is a fantastic rifle, and if you look a bit you can find one with great wood. Have several and love them.

The Ruger Hawkeye is easily the best value, and I would get one in a minute if you like it.

Kimbers are a crapshoot on quality, functionality, I have one, but only because it was a great trade for me, I've HAD 4 others, problems with all--wouldn't take the calculated risk myself,

I'd rank the 3 best as above,

1. Sauer
2. Sako 85
3. Ruger Hawkeye.

Have fun with your new rig hunt!

For the ambition you describe, a Sauer is the way to go. This one has taken game in five European countries since I bought it. It takes abuse, gets dirty and wet, but cleans and oils up beautifully when I get it home.

Sauer 202 in 270win (excuse the blood) :

FWIW, the heirloom that was passed to me was my Dad's SMLE.. nothing fancy, but it was his favourite rifle both at the range and in the field... of the rifles I own at the moment, there are two that my young bloke has his eye on... my Dad's SMLE (because of its history), and my Ruger that's seen many years of hunting as a 270, and has recently been rebarrelled to 6.5 Swede... he's used them both, and while we have a pre 64 M70 Supergrade in the safe, he has no attachment to it.

The Ruger has scratchmarks and a lot of dings in the stock, but these are the result of it being used as a hunting rifle - not a safe queen...

quote:

Originally posted by bucko:
An heirloom in my opinion is something that mattered to the person that owned it.
It is about giving your son the best you ever had, the one you would not part with for money, but only for love.
Figure out which one you like the very best and give him that one.
Otherwise it is not an heirloom, it is just another gun that he will fool himself into thinking you actually cared about.
Heirlooms are not about the object, they are about the spirit that has been put into them.

Try buying that at a gunshow:

"Yes, I'd like to buy the gun that has the most spirit. It's a GIFT for my son..."

quote:

Originally posted by TerryR:
A gun becomes an heirloom because of the stories that it tells, not because of the way it looks. If my Father left me a rifle that he had used on many hunting trips, or hunts, I would treasure it regardless of it's looks.
Save the money and take you Son hunting.

+ 1

Or spend some money and take him on a hunting trip he will never forget.

quote:

Originally posted by rugeruser:
FWIW, the heirloom that was passed to me was my Dad's SMLE.. nothing fancy, but it was his favourite rifle both at the range and in the field... of the rifles I own at the moment, there are two that my young bloke has his eye on... my Dad's SMLE (because of its history), and my Ruger that's seen many years of hunting as a 270, and has recently been rebarrelled to 6.5 Swede... he's used them both, and while we have a pre 64 M70 Supergrade in the safe, he has no attachment to it.

That's because the M70 has no real meaning to you.
He wants YOUR RIFLE.

quote:

Originally posted by enfieldspares:
That which makes a gun an "heirloom" is something else that has nothing to do with the figure of the woodwork.

I agree, an heirloom is something you pass down that was used by you, not something that was BOUGHT by you.

That is called a GIFT.

Do you see a common thread in this thread?

quote:

Originally posted by MikeyB:
...I'd like to pass something special on to him, something that will see long and hard hunting and have stories to tell, something that stands apart from the rest of them as something really special. It certainly won't be a "safe queen", it'll be a hunting rifle for me just like any other, but I'd like it to be a cut above the "regular" stuff I already have. None of what I have is "special", they're just tools.
I will always see them as such. He may see them differently some day, but I'd like to give him something special that has been all over this province and taken all manner of big game.

Let me tell you about my daughter. I have this old Remington Nylon66 that my step Dad gave me many years ago.
He kept great care of his guns, but this one has at least 30,000 rounds through it (she has put many thousand through it herself) and is starting to show some use. Still in good shape, but well used.
She has loved that gun for most of her life and she loves shooting it.

When the opportunity arose to buy a REALLY NICE one just like it almost new in the box (95%+) for a great price, WITH all of the paperwork, styrofoam, polybag, hangtag, receipt, unopened Tasco scope, EVERYTHING, I did it thinking this is BETTER than MINE, she will love it.

When I decided to give it to her she said, "This is nice, but it isn't the one I wanted. I wanted the old one that you used."

Remember, it is what was special to you that makes it special to them. Never mind the condition, she didn't.

I don't understand what is so hard to understand about the post. The man wants to buy a nice WOOD stocked rifle, hunt with it probably for a very long time and then pass it down to his son one day with all the memories and love that goes with it. For some strange reason and it seem's to come from plastic rifle fanatics who believe that he has to make a choice between a wood stocked rifle and going on a hunting trip with a plastic gun. I seriously doubt this is the case. I would bet the man can buy a nice wood stocked rifle and still take his son hunting with the rifle he just purchaced. Better yet, he could sell off some of his plastic rifles and still go hunting. After all, they are disposable


I'm sure glad I never inherited a plastic gun. It would make me wonder if I was ever loved at all.



Terry

quote:

Originally posted by TC1:
I don't understand what is so hard to understand about the post. The man wants to buy a nice WOOD stocked rifle, hunt with it probably for a very long time and then pass it down to his son one day with all the memories and love that goes with it. For some strange reason and it seem's to come from plastic rifle fanatics who believe that he has to make a choice between a wood stocked rifle and going on a hunting trip with a plastic gun. I seriously doubt this is the case. I would bet the man can buy a nice wood stocked rifle and still take his son hunting with the rifle he just purchaced. Better yet, he could sell off some of his plastic rifles and still go hunting. After all, they are disposable


I'm sure glad I never inherited a plastic gun. It would make me wonder if I was ever loved at all.



Terry

Then Terry, he should buy one HE LIKES. That was the point of this.

If he goes out and buys something he THINKS his son will like in 15 or twenty years, he is missing the point also.

I have MANY NICE RIFLES in my collection, my daughter wanted the old, plastic, Nylon66.

She wanted that one because I liked shooting it and it came from my Step Dad and he loved it.
She is PLENTY LOVED, and she knows it. That's why I gave her that one.

quote:

Originally posted by Flippy:
Then Terry, he should buy one HE LIKES. That was the point of this.

I think he made it clear from the very 1st post what he wanted.

One thing that amazes me about posts like this are people that think they know what is better for the poster than the poster himself. A guy starts a thread and asks about a 300H&H and people start suggesting he buy a WinMag or WSM's. Plain and simple, he didn't ask about that. Same on this thread.

Terry

What if you have more kids? Better buy a few. I have a daughter(7) and 2 sons (2 years, 2 months.) So I need 2 man size rifles for my boys and a little one for my daughter. Plus I need a man sized rifle for my future son in law. I want more kids, so I better prepare. What if we have Octuplets? I'm prepared!
The bad news, I only have one decent shotgun. Crap.

My rifle theory. Heirloom rifles for the kids will have belonged to one of the grandfathers, or will be built by me. I'm working on a couple 1903 Springfields. I'm also working on a Mexican Mauser for my best friend's son.

Its also important that I hunt and make memories with these rifles. I also need some pictures to pass on with the rifles. Pictures of me. Its a shame how few pics I have of my Dad, who died before his grandsons were born.