I'm going to do some tinkering on a load for my .300 Win Mag this week and have a couple of questions.

I currently shoot 180 grain Barnes Triple Shock bullets with great accuracy results, but expansion has been an issue on more than one occasion. I'm hunting leopard this year and the thin skin of the cat makes me worried about using Barnes.

My current load is 180 grain Barnes Triple Shock loaded with 74 grains RL 22 with Winchester Large Rifle primers and a 3.450 OAL. My main question is, should I start with the same set up, just changing the projectile itself or change up the OAL, powder charge or type of powder as well?

I've very green when it comes to reloading, so any help is appreciated.

Thanks!

Greg



SIDE NOTE: I have shot (and killed) a leopard with the 180 grain Barnes TSX, but it "pin holed" the cat and there was no blood until the place where we found him dead. I know a dead cat is a dead cat, but for safety's sake I'd like the bullet to expand a little quicker to do a little more damage if possible.

74 grains of rl22 is 1 shy of max as listed for the 180 Accubond.

Nothing wrong with rl22 for the 180 accubond. If you want to try it just back off a touch and work up. Just guessing the accobond will probably do better with less jump than the barnes.

Unless you are way down the load scale I don't substitute bullets especially jumping back an for from a barnes type.

Greg,

The 180 ACB has worked quite well for me in the 300 WM. I use 70 gr IMR 4350 in Winchester cases fired with a Fed 215 primer. I get sub MOA groups and 3100 FPS +. Drop back 3-4 grains and work up slowly. Your R 22 load might work fine and I've had great luck with H-1000 also.

Mark

Thank you Gentlemen! I may load up 5 rounds at 71 grains and 5 rounds at 72 and see what kind of results I get using the powder I already have.

If it isn't grouping well, I'll give IMR and H-1000 a try.

Thanks again.

Greg

For my 300 WM, Re25 is the best powder for the 180 Accubond or Ballistic Tip. I load ~83 grs of it, getting ~3300 fps with a 26" barrel; but, this is ABSOLUTE MAX IMO. For a 24" barrel, this load should produce ~3250 fps.

Start 5 grs below and work up in 1 gr increments.

The Accubond should open quickly at these velocities, and the NBT will be grenade-like devastating.

Monolithic solids as well as Nosler Partitions have a lot going for them when it comes to penetration, but on thin skinned animals can zip through leaving A very modest wound channel. The Nosler e-tip with its plastic tip and larger opening seems to transmit much more energy to the animal and still exit up to at least Elk.

My best 300 WM loads with the 180 AB bullet use IMR 4831. My chronograph shows less lot-to-lot variation and less temperature variation with this powder than the Reloader powders in my 300 WM rifles. IMR 4350 has given me good results also.
Where the mono bullets like a more jump before contact with the rifling, around .050" or more, the AB seems to like the .035" area.

I think you should try a lighter barnes,
A 168...tj3006

This load give me pretty good accuracy. Velocity is about 2,850 fps out of a 28 inch barrel.

My Blaser in 300 Win Mag did OK with the 180 gr Accubond and RL22 but really liked IMR 4064 at 58 gr. I repeatedly got groups around .25". I used Federal Brass and Federal 215 primers. The combination did extremely well on a Nilgai down in South Texas last January.

I would use the Nosler 180 Partition. It works well on both thin and thick skinned game in that the Partition opens quickly but penetrates extremely well..I have used it on both types of animals..The 150 partition is an awesome killer and a very good deer bullet, and I have seen it used on elk with complete success...

My std load is 74 grs. of RL-22 these days..I used 4831 for years but RL-22 meters so much better..

I haven't shot anything but paper with my 180 gr Accubond load, but 74gr of RE22 is the most accurate load and what I take into the field with my Kimber 8400.

quote:

SIDE NOTE: I have shot (and killed) a leopard with the 180 grain Barnes TSX, but it "pin holed" the cat and there was no blood until the place where we found him dead. I know a dead cat is a dead cat, but for safety's sake I'd like the bullet to expand a little quicker to do a little more damage if possible.

I'm always interested in 'pin-holing', etc. It can certainly happen with any bullet, even lead-cores.

However, with Nosler Partition, Barnes TTSX, GSC, and others, on seeing a small exit hole I first suspect that the bullet expanded on entry, lost its nose-lead or front petals, did massive damage with a blunt cylinder slug, and then exited with a calibre-sized hole. The idea of "blowing the nose" is especially probable given the relatively short distances that leopards are shot at (under 100 yards) and the relatively high velocity that is expected from a 300Win.

Why was there no blood? Even a pencil hole should provide blood, expecially if the cat died. Some explanation and further data is necessary.

So, how far did the cat run?
If a long way (over 100 yards), then maybe the entry and exit holes plugged up and the remedy is typically to use a larger calibre. The chest cavity would have held the blood. If the distance was short (<100 yards), I suspect that there was massive trauma, probably not a true "pencilling", and the chest cavity held the blood. Were there a few drops of blood outside in the grass/dirt, too, that maybe got overlooked in the excitement?

In any case, examples like this need as much documentation as possible.

PS: I once shot a hartebeest with a 270Win. The shot was frontal at about 300 yards. Impact was distinctly heard. The hartebeest took off running and disappeared in the reasonably open forest (early rainy season, open park, 'golf course' ambiance). No blood was seen for about 375 yards of tracking. Then 25 yards later we found the dead hartebeest behind a scrub-tree. The bullet had entered the chest and gone through the heart. A 400-yard run with a hole in the heart! It shouldn't have happened, but it did. Animals are capable of astounding feats. The blood was primarily collected in the body and little of it had flowed out of the front-chest entry wound. Since the incident was about 31-32 years ago, I know that it had a lead core and was assumed to expand easily. It was probably a Nosler Partition, either 130 or 150 grain (my general use bullets for the 270 at the time), or possibly a Sierra or Hornady.

I'm surprised when a TSX shot animal doesn't run, unless some major bone is hit or the CNS disrupted.

RL22 is a good choice for the Accubond. I'd just about bet that you will end up at 74-75 grains.

quote:

Originally posted by Dogleg:
I'm surprised when a TSX shot animal doesn't run, unless some major bone is hit or the CNS disrupted.

RL22 is a good choice for the Accubond. I'd just about bet that you will end up at 74-75 grains.

That's what the recommended powder charge is when using RL22 from the load data I've discovered. I'm seeing that 79 grains of H1000 is what they recommend, or what the load card said shot the best in their trials. I just don't want to stop using RL 22 since I have a few lbs left.

I'll post my results when I go shoot later this week, working on the loads this evening.

A typical leopard is about the same weight as a medium-sized American whitetail, so a slow-opening, deep penetrating bullet is ill-matched to it.

I've found that the slightly less expensive Nosler Ballistic Tip in the same caliber and weight can be used to work up loads for the Accubond. They shoot to the same POI and have the same velocity with the same charge.

And although you're probably fine using the Accubond, if I were facing a leopard head-on which had designs on a piece of my hide, I'd prefer to have the Ballistic Tips in my gun. They inflict devastating trauma on lighter big game, and after all, it is trauma which incapacitates and kills, not "blood trails".

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
A typical leopard is about the same weight as a medium-sized American whitetail, so a slow-opening, deep penetrating bullet is ill-matched to it.

I've found that the slightly less expensive Nosler Ballistic Tip in the same caliber and weight can be used to work up loads for the Accubond. They shoot to the same POI and have the same velocity with the same charge.

And although you're probably fine using the Accubond, if I were facing a leopard head-on which had designs on a piece of my hide, I'd prefer to have the Ballistic Tips in my gun. They inflict devastating trauma on lighter big game, and after all, it is trauma which incapacitates and kills, not "blood trails".

Everything stated in the quote is true most of the time. However, 'high velocity' got a bad name in Africa because someone got killed shooting a lion. The lead-core bullet blew up on the shoulder and did not kill the lion. Lion killed man. While leopards are considerably lighter than lions, I would want a lion-load, even for leopard.

I happen to like 'high velocity'. With heavy calibres I like 2800fps, and with non-dangerous game I am happy with 3000fps and faster. That being said, even with a leopard I would want guanrateed penetration. The Ballistic Tip should work most of the time, especially if waiting for a broadside shot. The Accubond will work even more (I may be prejudiced by Woodleigh's penetration in my personal judgement), but the Partition will guarantee penetration. It's your hide.

The CEB raptors will do even more. How much so? If given a 300Win loaded with ballistic tips vs. a 270 loaded with Raptors, I would shoot the leopard with the 270.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
A typical leopard is about the same weight as a medium-sized American whitetail, so a slow-opening, deep penetrating bullet is ill-matched to it.

I've found that the slightly less expensive Nosler Ballistic Tip in the same caliber and weight can be used to work up loads for the Accubond. They shoot to the same POI and have the same velocity with the same charge.

And although you're probably fine using the Accubond, if I were facing a leopard head-on which had designs on a piece of my hide, I'd prefer to have the Ballistic Tips in my gun. They inflict devastating trauma on lighter big game, and after all, it is trauma which incapacitates and kills, not "blood trails".

I've used Accubonds before, they produce plenty of trauma. The blood trails are just a side effect.

Those AB's do produce plenty of trauma, much like a partition IME. I've killed over 30 plains game animals with 7mm 160AB's, and the bullets recovered retained 55-65% of their weight with perfect mushroom expansion. BT's in certain calibers/weights are pretty stout too, the only difference being the AB has a bonded core and the BT's do not.

I understand Barnes created the TTSX to combat problems like you had in your OP Greg, that is to enhance the expansion at impact.

I wouldn't bet on the Accubonds and Ballistic tips shooting to the same POI. Usually they do, but one of my .300s shoots them 3 inches apart at 100.

I doubt expansion was an issue...what you are not seeing is fragmentation. Mono metals expand just fine at impact velocities above 2,000fps. Pin holing is a myth at best but with no fragmentation, you often don't see the huge exit holes associated with bullets that do fragment. In some cases fragmentation is desirable...in others not so much.

My 200 gr. load for the 300 Win. is a max load of 73 grs. of RL-22 in my gun, its super accurate and velocity is a tad over 3000 FPS..I have used that load for many years with the 200 gr. Nosler and 200 gr. Woodliegh PP, on game of all sizes...I have used the 200 gr. Accubonds on paper recently and they are super accurate so I loaded up 120 rounds for hunting..Maybe on elk this year.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
A typical leopard is about the same weight as a medium-sized American whitetail, so a slow-opening, deep penetrating bullet is ill-matched to it.

I've found that the slightly less expensive Nosler Ballistic Tip in the same caliber and weight can be used to work up loads for the Accubond. They shoot to the same POI and have the same velocity with the same charge.

And although you're probably fine using the Accubond, if I were facing a leopard head-on which had designs on a piece of my hide, I'd prefer to have the Ballistic Tips in my gun. They inflict devastating trauma on lighter big game, and after all, it is trauma which incapacitates and kills, not "blood trails".

I agree. In fact, this break-up "grenade-like" devastating effect - after 2-3 inches of penetration - is the rational behind Berger hunting bullets.

My favourite bullet just happens to be Noslers Accubond in 180gr 30 cal for my 300WM, I have run 75gr's of RE22 in mine, but switched to 81gr of RE25 for 3166fps in my Kimber 8400, the accuracy is awesome.
I feel you will do well with the Accubond, but don't expect huge exit holes, my experience shows exit wounds to be only slightly larger than bullet diameter with the Accubond, and I've used them in everything from 25 cal 110gr to 375 cal 260gr. I have even recovered some, the jacket tends to roll back close the shank, rather than a wide mushroom, this is why they penetrate so far. I've had them go end to end on large Sambar deer.
If you don't think the Accubond is the right choice, give the Partitiin a serious consideration, they are fantastic on small bodied animals, they open quickly and I've never seen one fail.

Cheers.

Greg, FWIW I shot my Leopard with a 160gr Accubond out of my 7mmremMag. It broke the (broadside shot) upper ft leg bone, lungs, skinned the lower spine, ribs, the exited with a quarter sized exit. The Leopard was dead when he hit the ground.

I would never use a X Bullet on Leopard. On my 1st trip to Namibia, I used the 160gr TSX on a bunch of plainsgame. If it were just a broadside/ribs shot, the bullets exited with hardly any expansion at all. This was my PH Christie DeSousa (RIP) first experience witgh the X Bullet...he didn't like it. Several perfectly hit animals ran off a few hundred yards before dropping. He wouldn't let me use it on Leopard (didnt get one) so I dug out a partition that I brought along.

I am not looking to get flammed by you X lovers out there...I am just giving my opinion based on what I experienced using them.

PS: for my Eland, it was PERFECT. Two broadside shots at 50 yards and both bullets found in perfect mushroom under far side skin.

Just my 2 Cents!

Thanks for all the replies, guys. I loaded up 4 different powder charges using accubonds and H-1000 powder. I started at 78 grains and worked up to 81 grains in one grain increments. 78 and 79 were basically a wash on accuracy, both shooting sub MOA. 80 grains it started opening up a bit, and 81 it was about 2" group.

I haven't shot them through a chronograph yet, but will load some more 79 grain loads up this week and see what kind of velocity I'm pushing.

So far, I'm happy with the results.

My favorite load in 300 WM is with the 180 AB & H4831. Groups good and animals are DRT.

Leopard track,
That has been my experience also, however I do like the X bullets on Buffalo and such in 375 H&H and up, they do a great job there...Had some hiccups early on with plainsgame and local game with the X bullets with about 3 complete failures due to penetration and no expansion and long hard tracking jobs..That may not be the case these days, but have been hesitant to try them again, regardless of the positive reports..I do like GS Customs monolithics however, and they have proved 110% on every head of game that I have shot with them.

I may give the newer generation of Barnes bullets another try in all fairness...

a 168 grn or maybe a 190 grain berger vld would do the trick all day long. and velocity would be 3000fps+ and if you do alot of long range work the 190 will carry more energy and less wind drift at all ranges.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Leopard track,
That has been my experience also, however I do like the X bullets on Buffalo and such in 375 H&H and up, they do a great job there...Had some hiccups early on with plainsgame and local game with the X bullets with about 3 complete failures due to penetration and no expansion and long hard tracking jobs..That may not be the case these days, but have been hesitant to try them again, regardless of the positive reports..I do like GS Customs monolithics however, and they have proved 110% on every head of game that I have shot with them.

I may give the newer generation of Barnes bullets another try in all fairness...

I totally agree wityh that Ray. Again, I am not dumping on the X Bullet at all. I think that it is the PERFECT bullet for big stuff like a Buffalo, Eland, Moose, Bison, Brown Bear etc. I just won't ever use it again for plainsgame....even for bigget stuff such as Kudu, Zebra, Gemsbuck. For that, the Accubonds are awesome.

Maybe Barnes changed things since I used them in 2005 but I am happy with the AB so I won't use them again.

Again just my opinion to you X Bullet lovers

I have no use for fragmenting bullets, they are awesome killers, but in too many cases I have seen heavy bone hit and when a bullet comes apart on that bone, you have a nasty tracking job on your hands..by the same token a too tough bullet that drills is just as bad..thus my trust in the Nosler partition, Woodleighs and so far the GS customs bullets.

For Leopard or deer a light weight for caliber Nosler partition is hard to beat, the old corelokt was about perfect on Leopard..ON deer I still like Silvertips, corelokts, Speer, and Hornadays. The old cup and core bullets work great on deer.

Nosler Accubonds and Nosler Ballistic Tips shoot same POI out of my Mauser M 03 barrel chambered in 308 Winchester. I think Accubonds are great, but a bit too tough for our White-tailed deer here in Texas. I am trying the Nosler Hunting Ballistic Tips this year.

Hope you have a great leopard hunt!