THE ACCURATERELOADING.COM MEDIUM BORE RIFLE FORUM

Page 1 2 

Moderators: Paul H
Go
New
Find
Notify
Tools
Reply
  
.308, why so popular?
 Login/Join
 
One of Us
posted
Greetings,
I am looking to get educated by the plethora of knowledge on this site regarding the popularity of the .308 Bolt action rifle.

I recently was in a few different gun shops "just looking" for shooter and the clerks kept going to the .308.

These were stock factory bolt actions rifles.

My intent was/is varmits, paper and deer gun.

I have never really looked or explored the 308 and am curious why is liked so much.

I am not wanting to make this a mine is better than your post. Just looking for the pros and cons of this caliber.

Thanks,


..."its not a collection if you only have one"....
 
Posts: 102 | Location: Idaho | Registered: 17 December 2011Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of tiggertate
posted Hide Post
Hard to find much wrong with it, to be honest. I ignored it for years because it seemed so "common" that it couldn't have anything special to offer.

In fact, it's pretty special in how well it does so many different things. There are other cartridges that can claim similar status as well. You can't go wrong with any of them.

Recoil is moderate.

Ammo is plentiful, has a tremendous variety and often cheap.

Inherently accurate.

A handloader's dream with the variety of suitable powders, brass and bullets including military surplus powders meant for it at $8 a pound instead of $24 or more.

Occasional deals on 7.62 x 51 military surplus loaded ammo.


"Experience" is the only class you take where the exam comes before the lesson.
 
Posts: 11142 | Location: Texas, USA | Registered: 22 September 2003Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
I grew up a ".30-06 man" and was always convinced the .30-06 was a *much* better round than the "lowly" .308... That is, until I actually tried a .308... Having done that, I realized what I had missed out on all those years: low recoil, exceptional accuracy and (with lighter bullets) velocities which to all practical purposes are equivalent to what the .30-06 offers.

I'm still a ".30-06 man" and would choose that chambering if I wanted to shoot bullets 180 grs and heavier. But these days, I realize what a gem the .308 is and doubt I'll ever be without one again.

- mike


*********************
The rifle is a noble weapon... It entices its bearer into primeval forests, into mountains and deserts untenanted by man. - Horace Kephart
 
Posts: 6653 | Location: Switzerland | Registered: 11 March 2002Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of TC1
posted Hide Post
One thing I've always liked about the .308 is it seems to "like" so many different powders. I can usually find an accurate load using anything from IMR4064 to Rice Krispies. Cool


--------------------------------------------

Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play?
 
Posts: 6315 | Location: Mississippi | Registered: 18 May 2002Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
I use to feel like mho did. I shunned the 308 for years and then finally got into it. I kinda of like it.

It use to be true that it kicked on the 30-06 until recently when the 30-06 pressure ceiling was kicked up to where it should have been. Now with the higher pressure loadings there is no way no how that the 308 is going to equal a 30-06 especially when you hand load it.

Looking at another aspect the 308's are usually smaller lighter rifles because they have a shorter action. Even though it can't match the 30-06 for feet per second it's still pretty much in it's class without the weight and as much recoil.
 
Posts: 2459 | Registered: 02 July 2010Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of z1r
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by mho:
I grew up a ".30-06 man" and was always convinced the .30-06 was a *much* better round than the "lowly" .308... That is, until I actually tried a .308... Having done that, I realized what I had missed out on all those years: low recoil, exceptional accuracy and (with lighter bullets) velocities which to all practical purposes are equivalent to what the .30-06 offers.

I'm still a ".30-06 man" and would choose that chambering if I wanted to shoot bullets 180 grs and heavier. But these days, I realize what a gem the .308 is and doubt I'll ever be without one again.

- mike


+1




Aut vincere aut mori
 
Posts: 4865 | Location: Lakewood, CO | Registered: 07 February 2002Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Crazyhorseconsulting
posted Hide Post
Just an open comment here. I am not a fan of the 270/308/30-06, but for the average hunter/shooter using standard 150 grain factory ammo,they nor any animal they choose to hoot with any of the 3 would be able to tell any difference in performance. All 3 have proven themselves over and over again. Until intrinsics are thrown i.e. heavier bullet weights/custom loads-hand loads etc. the 3-08 is probably the best compromise. JAO.


Even the rocks don't last forever.



 
Posts: 31014 | Location: Olney, Texas | Registered: 27 March 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by tiggertate:
Hard to find much wrong with it, to be honest. I ignored it for years because it seemed so "common" that it couldn't have anything special to offer.

In fact, it's pretty special in how well it does so many different things. There are other cartridges that can claim similar status as well. You can't go wrong with any of them.

Recoil is moderate.

Ammo is plentiful, has a tremendous variety and often cheap.

Inherently accurate.

A handloader's dream with the variety of suitable powders, brass and bullets including military surplus powders meant for it at $8 a pound instead of $24 or more.

Occasional deals on 7.62 x 51 military surplus loaded ammo.


That about sums it up doesnt it.
Thanks,
Greg


..."its not a collection if you only have one"....
 
Posts: 102 | Location: Idaho | Registered: 17 December 2011Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by mho:
I grew up a ".30-06 man" and was always convinced the .30-06 was a *much* better round than the "lowly" .308... That is, until I actually tried a .308... Having done that, I realized what I had missed out on all those years: low recoil, exceptional accuracy and (with lighter bullets) velocities which to all practical purposes are equivalent to what the .30-06 offers.

I'm still a ".30-06 man" and would choose that chambering if I wanted to shoot bullets 180 grs and heavier. But these days, I realize what a gem the .308 is and doubt I'll ever be without one again.

- mike



That is exactly my story as well.

Maybe its time to consider the 308.

Thanks for the input


..."its not a collection if you only have one"....
 
Posts: 102 | Location: Idaho | Registered: 17 December 2011Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
For me, the reason I ended up buying a .308 was that it was the best cartridge (IMO) that a Savage 99 came in. I've have killed a handful of deer with the 99 I acquired a few years ago and have been nothing but pleased with the results.

If I was going buy a utility rifle to use for everything, I'd be hard pressed to come up with something better than a sythetic-stocked, bolt action .308. Ammo can be found everywhere and it's usually cheap, and it's easy to load for, usually accurate, and can be used on any game animal in the lower 48.
 
Posts: 641 | Location: SW Pennsylvania, USA | Registered: 10 October 2003Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
It also sounds a 7mm-08 would fit your bill good. There's no flies on that cartridge either. It is currently my favorite hunting round.
 
Posts: 2459 | Registered: 02 July 2010Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of f224
posted Hide Post
It works and it works well, that's why.


Captain Dave Funk
Operator
www.BlaserPro.com
 
Posts: 841 | Location: Dallas, Iowa, USA | Registered: 05 June 2004Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by SmokinJ:
It also sounds a 7mm-08 would fit your bill good. There's no flies on that cartridge either. It is currently my favorite hunting round.


just recently picked up a 7/08 and so far really like it.
With a 7/08 and a 30.06 dont see the "need" for the 308 except I never owned one Big Grin


..."its not a collection if you only have one"....
 
Posts: 102 | Location: Idaho | Registered: 17 December 2011Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Abob
posted Hide Post
Military connection

30-06 Springfield
7.62×51mm NATO (commercial .308 Winchester)
5.56×45mm NATO (commercial .223 Remington)


Jim

fur, feathers, & meat in the freezersalute
"Pass it on to your kids"
 
Posts: 822 | Location: Palmer, Alaska | Registered: 22 October 2008Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of friarmeier
posted Hide Post
quote:
using anything from IMR4064 to Rice Krispies.


How finely do you have to powder the Rice Krispies & what primer do you use? Big Grin

friar


Our liberties we prize, and our rights we will maintain.
 
Posts: 1222 | Location: A place once called heaven | Registered: 11 January 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Abob:
Military connection

30-06 Springfield
7.62×51mm NATO (commercial .308 Winchester)
5.56×45mm NATO (commercial .223 Remington)


30 Model of 1906 (commercial 30-06 Sprinfied)
 
Posts: 2459 | Registered: 02 July 2010Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of bartsche
posted Hide Post
quote:
.308, why so popular?

Roll Eyesbecause it was adopted by the US military. Had they been sensible and gone with the 280 British the .308 would never be heard of. JMHO. stir roger


Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone..
 
Posts: 10226 | Location: Temple City CA | Registered: 29 April 2003Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
I have owned one or more .308s for the past 35 years. It has always been my go to deer caliber. Short & light enough to handle easily in thick stuff, accurate at long ranges for shooting over fields, hits hard enough with 150 or 165 grain loads that tracking is seldom necessary, and it is easy to find a load that shoots accurately.
 
Posts: 171 | Location: East Tennessee | Registered: 13 December 2008Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Kabluewy
posted Hide Post
quote:
.308, why so popular?
Roll Eyes


Because it's offered in more rifles than the 7mm-08. Roll Eyes

KB


~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~

~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
 
Posts: 12818 | Registered: 16 February 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Accuracy, Short action, light weight, good bullet selection, and an efficient cartridge that is easy to reload. That said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a 30-06. Although harder to find, I chose a 358 Win rifle over a 35 Whelen for these very reasons.


Start young, hunt hard, and enjoy God's bounty.
 
Posts: 383 | Location: Oklahoma | Registered: 24 December 2011Reply With Quote
one of us
posted Hide Post
There was a time in South Africa when the FN-FAL was built under licence as the R1 Rifle. This was our military issue rifle and hence each and every white male at age 18 when drafted into the military was issued with one of these. Once you completed your service you went on to the reserve and if you were a farmer or lived in a rural community the chances were good that you served in the commando system.

This where you could buy ammo for 11 South african rands for a 1000 rounds, that is less than 2 US $ for a 1000 rounds and to boot Musgrave built a rifle called the "Vrystaat" Model and that cost 236 South african rands or roughly 33 US$

it was not surprising then to find a 308 in just about every farmers pick-up behind the seat, complete with the handy NATO Brown plastic carry bag of 308 mil hardball ammo neatly packed into 20 round boxes.
 
Posts: 7857 | Registered: 16 August 2000Reply With Quote
Moderator
Picture of jeffeosso
posted Hide Post
why? it just works.. likely the best of the mediums, AFTER the 7x64


opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club

Information on Ammoguide about
the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR
What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR.
476AR,
http://www.weaponsmith.com
 
Posts: 39907 | Location: Conroe, TX | Registered: 01 June 2002Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Bwana Nderobo
posted Hide Post
It's all you really need. It kills most everything you'd rationally point it at, especially with today's bonded core bullets. Recoil is moderate enough to teach younger shooters, it digests about any powder well (though I've never tried breakfast cereals...) and performs well even in a shorter barrel. Of all the 30's I've reloaded for, the 308 finds it's accuracy with the least amount of work. Can't go wrong with it!


Phil Massaro
President, Massaro Ballistic Laboratories, LLC
NRA Life Member
B&C Member
www.mblammo.com

Hunt Reports- Zambia 2011
http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1481089261

"Two kinds of people in this world, those of us with loaded guns, and those of us who dig. You dig."
 
Posts: 441 | Location: New Baltimore, NY | Registered: 14 February 2008Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of JDA-CO
posted Hide Post
Why??? Why not... It's a great little short action round that thumps'em just like the ought'six...
 
Posts: 508 | Registered: 28 March 2011Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Thanks all for the input.
I guess maybe I should take a closer look at the lowly .308 for a all around shooter in the future.

I now have a better understanding of my father-in-laws rifle preference now.
He has owned 2 Rifles since he left the service after Korea. A .308 and a .300 win mag he won at a fund raiser, Gave the 300 to a grandson and will not part with the 308. (it has taken its share of game)
I now have a better understanding why.

I have always thought of the 308 as "vinilla" but it appears to many as the BEST Vinilla out there!

Thanks again


..."its not a collection if you only have one"....
 
Posts: 102 | Location: Idaho | Registered: 17 December 2011Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Brad
posted Hide Post
The 308 kicks a little and kills a lot.
 
Posts: 3523 | Registered: 27 June 2000Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
The origin being U.S.Military does indeed have a lot to do with the popularity of a cartridge as mentioned, that is the '06, 308, 223/5.56, and lest we forget the ever increasing popularity of the 45/70 Gov't. There is even a rise in popularity of the 30/40Krag. Endless supply of components, surplus and commerical, for reloading the 308 and volumes of data developed over the past 60 years or so and cartridge can be made to shoot very accurately out to the 1000yd line. What's not to like about the 308??
 
Posts: 1328 | Location: West Virginia | Registered: 19 January 2009Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of bartsche
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by MFD:
What's not to like about the 308??

old For it's intended uses it wasn't as good a design as it should have been. It was driven by US. lack luster military and know little
politicians. Its design was 40 years behind the times. Its competition at the time was a good bit more up to date but handicapped by US clout and bravado. Kinda like a Mac Arthor hang over. stirroger beer


Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone..
 
Posts: 10226 | Location: Temple City CA | Registered: 29 April 2003Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Brad
posted Hide Post
Back to reality...

I guess I've owned 8 or 9 in the last four decades. I always go back to it.

As to handloads, it's been the easiest to load for, least fussy, lowest drama round I've ever worked with.

As to shooting... it kicks noticeably less than the 30-06, yet is plenty close in terms of terminal performance.

Being a 30 cal, and a military and competition round, great components are available world-wide. The variety of outstanding hunting bullets for it are second to none.

I've used it to take everything from coyotes and antelope to deer and elk. It's never let me down.
 
Posts: 3523 | Registered: 27 June 2000Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Over the years, I've owned several rifles chambered in .308 Win. Everything from an old Remington Model 600 (My First) to my present .308 rifles (1) An old Smith & Wesson Model "B" Bolt Action, which prefers Boaltail bullets. (2) My Browning A-Bolt "Hunter" which is my most accurate .308 rifle I've ever owned. Even had a Winchester Pre-'64 Model 70 Featherweight, but had to glassbed it to obtain great accuracy. I've Harvested a ton of Deer over the years with my .308 rifles. Smiler


David
 
Posts: 332 | Location: Backwoods Of Kentucky | Registered: 18 September 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Brad:

As to shooting... it kicks noticeably less than the 30-06, yet is plenty close in terms of terminal performance.


Yes, I've noted the same. This puzzles me to a great extent as performance-wise they're close, indeed.
I've never chronoed any but the magazine tests suggest that in some barrels, some factory .308 ammo is actually faster than the .30-06 (not very usual, though). That much more I wonder about this phenomenon.

I agree that the .308 rifles are, in my experience, the lightest and slickest to use. Always reminds me of how highly Bell spoke of his 6,5mm and 7mm rifles.

- Lars/Finland


A.k.a. Bwana One-Shot
 
Posts: 556 | Location: Finland | Registered: 07 August 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of cal30 1906
posted Hide Post
quote:
Inherently accurate.




Good God I have seen this enough times it makes me ill. Sorry but that quote makes every .308 owner believe that it is more accurate than the Godfather (.3006) will ever be.


EVERY CALIBER IS INHERENTLY ACCURATE And I have a .308 Built for accuracy.

And it is Accurate But so is every rifle I own...



Cal30




If it cant be Grown it has to be Mined! Devoted member of Newmont mining company Underground Mine rescue team. Carlin East,Deep Star ,Leeville,Deep Post ,Chukar and now Exodus Where next? Pete Bajo to train newbies on long hole stoping and proper blasting techniques.
Back to Exodus mine again learning teaching and operating autonomous loaders in the underground. Bringing everyday life to most individuals 8' at a time!
 
Posts: 3082 | Location: Northern Nevada & Northern Idaho | Registered: 09 April 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of cal30 1906
posted Hide Post
quote:
Inherently accurate




What Gun Rag wrote this anyway?


I remember reading it but dont recall who it was that actually QUOTED it first.

But it made me laugh back then and it took off from there....

I will always look at it as the .3006-s lil brother.


TO PUT THIS BLUNTLY if you choose a .308 over a .30-06 you are Handicaping yourself..IMOP!


Long live the KING!








Cal30




If it cant be Grown it has to be Mined! Devoted member of Newmont mining company Underground Mine rescue team. Carlin East,Deep Star ,Leeville,Deep Post ,Chukar and now Exodus Where next? Pete Bajo to train newbies on long hole stoping and proper blasting techniques.
Back to Exodus mine again learning teaching and operating autonomous loaders in the underground. Bringing everyday life to most individuals 8' at a time!
 
Posts: 3082 | Location: Northern Nevada & Northern Idaho | Registered: 09 April 2005Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Former military rounds are always popular although I think they may be using it again for certain applications that the .223 cal doesn't do well on. Mild recoil and can handle large game without problem.
 
Posts: 966 | Location: Austin, Texas | Registered: 23 September 2011Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of FOOBAR
posted Hide Post
Not to stir the pot anymore than it already is stir...the difference between the "kick" of a 308 and a 30-06 in rifles of the same weight shooting bullets of the same weight at the "normal velos of each cartridge is so miniscule I get a big tickle in my ....S everytime I read some of this BS garbage. Don't believe me, run a recoil calculator and see.

30'06/8lb rifle/150gr bullet/3000fs...12ftlb at 17fs.

308/8lb rifle/150gr bullet/2800fs...10.5ft at 14fs.

THAT'S ABOUT 1.5 ftlbs and 3fs difference between the two...WHAT kind of ..... are you ...ladies??? Can't handle such a tiny amount of recoil??...time to put on the frilly panties, bonnet and suck on a lolly. CRYBABY horse Big Grin rotflmo

Most of this trash talking is in the MINDS of BOTH the lovers and detractors who marry cumquats to road apples...just like the young men of New Guinea who wear HUGE penis sheaths and think it means something...the women sure have a laugh.

I have both cals...they both do their jobs...the '06 has 20% more case capacity so CERTAINLY it can produce higher velos per bullet weight which translates into more energy, roughly 400 ftlbs more...but every animal I've shot with either has flopped over and became hamburger and steaks...I couldn't tell the difference which die quickest.

I just can't understand all this pissyazzz constant comparison between the two...OR between the '06 and the 300WM...OR ANY COMPARISON krap at all...between calibers, intra caliber. between bullet weights, except maybe in the application of decision making in the USE of the rifle/caliber/bullet weight.

Keerist...just about ANY rifle/caliber can kill even the largest game animal if the bullet is placed right.

Make your OWN decision...get the rifle, the caliber, the bullet YOU want to use and go have FUN...forget the comparison garbage...I've never heard of ANY comparison putting venison on the table...that takes a "projectile weapon" of just about ANY kind and a hunter DOING his job.

Or Not...humankind never change. Roll Eyes Confused hammering lol

Luck
 
Posts: 1338 | Registered: 19 January 2006Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of cal30 1906
posted Hide Post
Foobar that is stiring the pot jumping

and it is unjust on your manner wave




Cal30




If it cant be Grown it has to be Mined! Devoted member of Newmont mining company Underground Mine rescue team. Carlin East,Deep Star ,Leeville,Deep Post ,Chukar and now Exodus Where next? Pete Bajo to train newbies on long hole stoping and proper blasting techniques.
Back to Exodus mine again learning teaching and operating autonomous loaders in the underground. Bringing everyday life to most individuals 8' at a time!
 
Posts: 3082 | Location: Northern Nevada & Northern Idaho | Registered: 09 April 2005Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of z1r
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by FOOBAR:
Not to stir the pot anymore than I'm already is stir...the difference between the "kick" of a 308 and a 30-06 in rifles of the same weight shooting bullets of the same weight at the "normal velos of each cartridge is so miniscule I get a big tickle in my ....S everytime I read some of this BS garbage. Don't believe me, run a recoil calculator and see.

30'06/8lb rifle/150gr bullet/3000fs...12ftlb at 17fs.

308/8lb rifle/150gr bullet/2800fs...10.5ft at 14fs.

THAT'S ABOUT 1.5 ftlbs and 3fs difference between the two...WHAT kind of ..... are you ...ladies??? Can't handle such a tiny amount of recoil??...time to put on the frilly panties, bonnet and suck on a lolly. CRYBABY horse Big Grin rotflmo



Using your numbers, which came from god knows where, that is still a 15% increase in recoil.

Now, using some data I pulled from Hodgdons freebie 2005 manual I get different but not dissimilar results.

Both use 150 grain bullets, 8lb rifles. the .308 is launched at 2937 fps propelled by 47.0 grains of Varget, the -06 is 3068 fps propelled by 62 grains of H4350.

The result is 15.65 ft/lbs for the .308 and 19.87 ft/lbs for the '06. An increse of just under 25%.

http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp

The calculator provided by Beartooth bullets nets an even larger disparity.

While that 15 to 25% increase may not bother me, I've seen plenty that were bothered by it.

I'd rather see those folks use a .308 and enjoy themselves instead of using a .30-06 to try to impress you and your ilk and not enjoy themselves.




Aut vincere aut mori
 
Posts: 4865 | Location: Lakewood, CO | Registered: 07 February 2002Reply With Quote
One of Us
posted Hide Post
Like many, I put it off for years because there were always bigger, faster, "better", more sexy cartridges out there. Last year I finally picked up a 308. After putting it in a new stock with bedding, and trying a few factory loads I found some real winners. It is a joy to shoot, and probably the most accurate rifle I own aside from my CZ452 (that this is boring accurate). It has been a real eye opener to the "lesser" cartridges, and I think I am going to play with a few more of them in the future now!


If you think every possible niche has been filled already, thank a wildcatter!
 
Posts: 2287 | Location: CO | Registered: 14 December 2007Reply With Quote
One of Us
Picture of Brad
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by z1r:

I'd rather see those folks use a .308 and enjoy themselves instead of using a .30-06 to try to impress you and your ilk and not enjoy themselves.


Exactly.

And more to the point, the "25% less recoil" figure feels about exactly right to my shoulder.

I rarely post here anymore... AR has become the domain of a lot of undesirables.
 
Posts: 3523 | Registered: 27 June 2000Reply With Quote
one of us
Picture of z1r
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by MileHighShooter:
It is a joy to shoot, and probably the most accurate rifle I own aside from my CZ452 (that this is boring accurate).


Don't you hate those CZ's for that? Me and my kids sure do, each and every time we take them out shooting. Son, "Dad, that's ten times in a row I hit the bull!" Me, "I know son, you'll just have to try harder to miss next time!" Big Grin




Aut vincere aut mori
 
Posts: 4865 | Location: Lakewood, CO | Registered: 07 February 2002Reply With Quote
  Powered by Social Strata Page 1 2  
 


Copyright December 1997-2023 Accuratereloading.com


Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia