Greetings,
I am looking to get educated by the plethora of knowledge on this site regarding the popularity of the .308 Bolt action rifle.

I recently was in a few different gun shops "just looking" for shooter and the clerks kept going to the .308.

These were stock factory bolt actions rifles.

My intent was/is varmits, paper and deer gun.

I have never really looked or explored the 308 and am curious why is liked so much.

I am not wanting to make this a mine is better than your post. Just looking for the pros and cons of this caliber.

Thanks,

Hard to find much wrong with it, to be honest. I ignored it for years because it seemed so "common" that it couldn't have anything special to offer.

In fact, it's pretty special in how well it does so many different things. There are other cartridges that can claim similar status as well. You can't go wrong with any of them.

Recoil is moderate.

Ammo is plentiful, has a tremendous variety and often cheap.

Inherently accurate.

A handloader's dream with the variety of suitable powders, brass and bullets including military surplus powders meant for it at $8 a pound instead of $24 or more.

Occasional deals on 7.62 x 51 military surplus loaded ammo.

I grew up a ".30-06 man" and was always convinced the .30-06 was a *much* better round than the "lowly" .308... That is, until I actually tried a .308... Having done that, I realized what I had missed out on all those years: low recoil, exceptional accuracy and (with lighter bullets) velocities which to all practical purposes are equivalent to what the .30-06 offers.

I'm still a ".30-06 man" and would choose that chambering if I wanted to shoot bullets 180 grs and heavier. But these days, I realize what a gem the .308 is and doubt I'll ever be without one again.

- mike

One thing I've always liked about the .308 is it seems to "like" so many different powders. I can usually find an accurate load using anything from IMR4064 to Rice Krispies.

I use to feel like mho did. I shunned the 308 for years and then finally got into it. I kinda of like it.

It use to be true that it kicked on the 30-06 until recently when the 30-06 pressure ceiling was kicked up to where it should have been. Now with the higher pressure loadings there is no way no how that the 308 is going to equal a 30-06 especially when you hand load it.

Looking at another aspect the 308's are usually smaller lighter rifles because they have a shorter action. Even though it can't match the 30-06 for feet per second it's still pretty much in it's class without the weight and as much recoil.

quote:

Originally posted by mho:
I grew up a ".30-06 man" and was always convinced the .30-06 was a *much* better round than the "lowly" .308... That is, until I actually tried a .308... Having done that, I realized what I had missed out on all those years: low recoil, exceptional accuracy and (with lighter bullets) velocities which to all practical purposes are equivalent to what the .30-06 offers.

I'm still a ".30-06 man" and would choose that chambering if I wanted to shoot bullets 180 grs and heavier. But these days, I realize what a gem the .308 is and doubt I'll ever be without one again.

- mike

+1

Just an open comment here. I am not a fan of the 270/308/30-06, but for the average hunter/shooter using standard 150 grain factory ammo,they nor any animal they choose to hoot with any of the 3 would be able to tell any difference in performance. All 3 have proven themselves over and over again. Until intrinsics are thrown i.e. heavier bullet weights/custom loads-hand loads etc. the 3-08 is probably the best compromise. JAO.

quote:

Originally posted by tiggertate:
Hard to find much wrong with it, to be honest. I ignored it for years because it seemed so "common" that it couldn't have anything special to offer.

In fact, it's pretty special in how well it does so many different things. There are other cartridges that can claim similar status as well. You can't go wrong with any of them.

Recoil is moderate.

Ammo is plentiful, has a tremendous variety and often cheap.

Inherently accurate.

A handloader's dream with the variety of suitable powders, brass and bullets including military surplus powders meant for it at $8 a pound instead of $24 or more.

Occasional deals on 7.62 x 51 military surplus loaded ammo.

That about sums it up doesnt it.
Thanks,
Greg

quote:

Originally posted by mho:
I grew up a ".30-06 man" and was always convinced the .30-06 was a *much* better round than the "lowly" .308... That is, until I actually tried a .308... Having done that, I realized what I had missed out on all those years: low recoil, exceptional accuracy and (with lighter bullets) velocities which to all practical purposes are equivalent to what the .30-06 offers.

I'm still a ".30-06 man" and would choose that chambering if I wanted to shoot bullets 180 grs and heavier. But these days, I realize what a gem the .308 is and doubt I'll ever be without one again.

- mike

That is exactly my story as well.

Maybe its time to consider the 308.

Thanks for the input

For me, the reason I ended up buying a .308 was that it was the best cartridge (IMO) that a Savage 99 came in. I've have killed a handful of deer with the 99 I acquired a few years ago and have been nothing but pleased with the results.

If I was going buy a utility rifle to use for everything, I'd be hard pressed to come up with something better than a sythetic-stocked, bolt action .308. Ammo can be found everywhere and it's usually cheap, and it's easy to load for, usually accurate, and can be used on any game animal in the lower 48.

It also sounds a 7mm-08 would fit your bill good. There's no flies on that cartridge either. It is currently my favorite hunting round.

It works and it works well, that's why.

quote:

Originally posted by SmokinJ:
It also sounds a 7mm-08 would fit your bill good. There's no flies on that cartridge either. It is currently my favorite hunting round.

just recently picked up a 7/08 and so far really like it.
With a 7/08 and a 30.06 dont see the "need" for the 308 except I never owned one

Military connection

30-06 Springfield
7.62×51mm NATO (commercial .308 Winchester)
5.56×45mm NATO (commercial .223 Remington)

quote:

using anything from IMR4064 to Rice Krispies.

How finely do you have to powder the Rice Krispies & what primer do you use?

friar

quote:

Originally posted by Abob:
Military connection

30-06 Springfield
7.62×51mm NATO (commercial .308 Winchester)
5.56×45mm NATO (commercial .223 Remington)

30 Model of 1906 (commercial 30-06 Sprinfied)

quote:

.308, why so popular?

because it was adopted by the US military. Had they been sensible and gone with the 280 British the .308 would never be heard of. JMHO. roger

I have owned one or more .308s for the past 35 years. It has always been my go to deer caliber. Short & light enough to handle easily in thick stuff, accurate at long ranges for shooting over fields, hits hard enough with 150 or 165 grain loads that tracking is seldom necessary, and it is easy to find a load that shoots accurately.

quote:

.308, why so popular?

Because it's offered in more rifles than the 7mm-08.

KB

Accuracy, Short action, light weight, good bullet selection, and an efficient cartridge that is easy to reload. That said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with a 30-06. Although harder to find, I chose a 358 Win rifle over a 35 Whelen for these very reasons.

There was a time in South Africa when the FN-FAL was built under licence as the R1 Rifle. This was our military issue rifle and hence each and every white male at age 18 when drafted into the military was issued with one of these. Once you completed your service you went on to the reserve and if you were a farmer or lived in a rural community the chances were good that you served in the commando system.

This where you could buy ammo for 11 South african rands for a 1000 rounds, that is less than 2 US $ for a 1000 rounds and to boot Musgrave built a rifle called the "Vrystaat" Model and that cost 236 South african rands or roughly 33 US$

it was not surprising then to find a 308 in just about every farmers pick-up behind the seat, complete with the handy NATO Brown plastic carry bag of 308 mil hardball ammo neatly packed into 20 round boxes.

why? it just works.. likely the best of the mediums, AFTER the 7x64

It's all you really need. It kills most everything you'd rationally point it at, especially with today's bonded core bullets. Recoil is moderate enough to teach younger shooters, it digests about any powder well (though I've never tried breakfast cereals...) and performs well even in a shorter barrel. Of all the 30's I've reloaded for, the 308 finds it's accuracy with the least amount of work. Can't go wrong with it!

Why??? Why not... It's a great little short action round that thumps'em just like the ought'six...

Thanks all for the input.
I guess maybe I should take a closer look at the lowly .308 for a all around shooter in the future.

I now have a better understanding of my father-in-laws rifle preference now.
He has owned 2 Rifles since he left the service after Korea. A .308 and a .300 win mag he won at a fund raiser, Gave the 300 to a grandson and will not part with the 308. (it has taken its share of game)
I now have a better understanding why.

I have always thought of the 308 as "vinilla" but it appears to many as the BEST Vinilla out there!

Thanks again

The 308 kicks a little and kills a lot.

The origin being U.S.Military does indeed have a lot to do with the popularity of a cartridge as mentioned, that is the '06, 308, 223/5.56, and lest we forget the ever increasing popularity of the 45/70 Gov't. There is even a rise in popularity of the 30/40Krag. Endless supply of components, surplus and commerical, for reloading the 308 and volumes of data developed over the past 60 years or so and cartridge can be made to shoot very accurately out to the 1000yd line. What's not to like about the 308??

quote:

Originally posted by MFD:
What's not to like about the 308??

For it's intended uses it wasn't as good a design as it should have been. It was driven by US. lack luster military and know little
politicians. Its design was 40 years behind the times. Its competition at the time was a good bit more up to date but handicapped by US clout and bravado. Kinda like a Mac Arthor hang over. roger

Back to reality...

I guess I've owned 8 or 9 in the last four decades. I always go back to it.

As to handloads, it's been the easiest to load for, least fussy, lowest drama round I've ever worked with.

As to shooting... it kicks noticeably less than the 30-06, yet is plenty close in terms of terminal performance.

Being a 30 cal, and a military and competition round, great components are available world-wide. The variety of outstanding hunting bullets for it are second to none.

I've used it to take everything from coyotes and antelope to deer and elk. It's never let me down.

Over the years, I've owned several rifles chambered in .308 Win. Everything from an old Remington Model 600 (My First) to my present .308 rifles (1) An old Smith & Wesson Model "B" Bolt Action, which prefers Boaltail bullets. (2) My Browning A-Bolt "Hunter" which is my most accurate .308 rifle I've ever owned. Even had a Winchester Pre-'64 Model 70 Featherweight, but had to glassbed it to obtain great accuracy. I've Harvested a ton of Deer over the years with my .308 rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by Brad:

As to shooting... it kicks noticeably less than the 30-06, yet is plenty close in terms of terminal performance.

Yes, I've noted the same. This puzzles me to a great extent as performance-wise they're close, indeed.
I've never chronoed any but the magazine tests suggest that in some barrels, some factory .308 ammo is actually faster than the .30-06 (not very usual, though). That much more I wonder about this phenomenon.

I agree that the .308 rifles are, in my experience, the lightest and slickest to use. Always reminds me of how highly Bell spoke of his 6,5mm and 7mm rifles.

- Lars/Finland

quote:

Inherently accurate.

Good God I have seen this enough times it makes me ill. Sorry but that quote makes every .308 owner believe that it is more accurate than the Godfather (.3006) will ever be.


EVERY CALIBER IS INHERENTLY ACCURATE And I have a .308 Built for accuracy.

And it is Accurate But so is every rifle I own...



Cal30

quote:

Inherently accurate

What Gun Rag wrote this anyway?


I remember reading it but dont recall who it was that actually QUOTED it first.

But it made me laugh back then and it took off from there....

I will always look at it as the .3006-s lil brother.


TO PUT THIS BLUNTLY if you choose a .308 over a .30-06 you are Handicaping yourself..IMOP!


Long live the KING!








Cal30

Former military rounds are always popular although I think they may be using it again for certain applications that the .223 cal doesn't do well on. Mild recoil and can handle large game without problem.

Not to stir the pot anymore than it already is ...the difference between the "kick" of a 308 and a 30-06 in rifles of the same weight shooting bullets of the same weight at the "normal velos of each cartridge is so miniscule I get a big tickle in my ....S everytime I read some of this BS garbage. Don't believe me, run a recoil calculator and see.

30'06/8lb rifle/150gr bullet/3000fs...12ftlb at 17fs.

308/8lb rifle/150gr bullet/2800fs...10.5ft at 14fs.

THAT'S ABOUT 1.5 ftlbs and 3fs difference between the two...WHAT kind of ..... are you ...ladies??? Can't handle such a tiny amount of recoil??...time to put on the frilly panties, bonnet and suck on a lolly.

Most of this trash talking is in the MINDS of BOTH the lovers and detractors who marry cumquats to road apples...just like the young men of New Guinea who wear HUGE penis sheaths and think it means something...the women sure have a laugh.

I have both cals...they both do their jobs...the '06 has 20% more case capacity so CERTAINLY it can produce higher velos per bullet weight which translates into more energy, roughly 400 ftlbs more...but every animal I've shot with either has flopped over and became hamburger and steaks...I couldn't tell the difference which die quickest.

I just can't understand all this pissyazzz constant comparison between the two...OR between the '06 and the 300WM...OR ANY COMPARISON krap at all...between calibers, intra caliber. between bullet weights, except maybe in the application of decision making in the USE of the rifle/caliber/bullet weight.

Keerist...just about ANY rifle/caliber can kill even the largest game animal if the bullet is placed right.

Make your OWN decision...get the rifle, the caliber, the bullet YOU want to use and go have FUN...forget the comparison garbage...I've never heard of ANY comparison putting venison on the table...that takes a "projectile weapon" of just about ANY kind and a hunter DOING his job.

Or Not...humankind never change.

Luck

Foobar that is stiring the pot

and it is unjust on your manner




Cal30

quote:

Originally posted by FOOBAR:
Not to stir the pot anymore than I'm already is ...the difference between the "kick" of a 308 and a 30-06 in rifles of the same weight shooting bullets of the same weight at the "normal velos of each cartridge is so miniscule I get a big tickle in my ....S everytime I read some of this BS garbage. Don't believe me, run a recoil calculator and see.

30'06/8lb rifle/150gr bullet/3000fs...12ftlb at 17fs.

308/8lb rifle/150gr bullet/2800fs...10.5ft at 14fs.

THAT'S ABOUT 1.5 ftlbs and 3fs difference between the two...WHAT kind of ..... are you ...ladies??? Can't handle such a tiny amount of recoil??...time to put on the frilly panties, bonnet and suck on a lolly.

Using your numbers, which came from god knows where, that is still a 15% increase in recoil.

Now, using some data I pulled from Hodgdons freebie 2005 manual I get different but not dissimilar results.

Both use 150 grain bullets, 8lb rifles. the .308 is launched at 2937 fps propelled by 47.0 grains of Varget, the -06 is 3068 fps propelled by 62 grains of H4350.

The result is 15.65 ft/lbs for the .308 and 19.87 ft/lbs for the '06. An increse of just under 25%.

http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp

The calculator provided by Beartooth bullets nets an even larger disparity.

While that 15 to 25% increase may not bother me, I've seen plenty that were bothered by it.

I'd rather see those folks use a .308 and enjoy themselves instead of using a .30-06 to try to impress you and your ilk and not enjoy themselves.

Like many, I put it off for years because there were always bigger, faster, "better", more sexy cartridges out there. Last year I finally picked up a 308. After putting it in a new stock with bedding, and trying a few factory loads I found some real winners. It is a joy to shoot, and probably the most accurate rifle I own aside from my CZ452 (that this is boring accurate). It has been a real eye opener to the "lesser" cartridges, and I think I am going to play with a few more of them in the future now!

quote:

Originally posted by z1r:

I'd rather see those folks use a .308 and enjoy themselves instead of using a .30-06 to try to impress you and your ilk and not enjoy themselves.

Exactly.

And more to the point, the "25% less recoil" figure feels about exactly right to my shoulder.

I rarely post here anymore... AR has become the domain of a lot of undesirables.

quote:

Originally posted by MileHighShooter:
It is a joy to shoot, and probably the most accurate rifle I own aside from my CZ452 (that this is boring accurate).

Don't you hate those CZ's for that? Me and my kids sure do, each and every time we take them out shooting. Son, "Dad, that's ten times in a row I hit the bull!" Me, "I know son, you'll just have to try harder to miss next time!"