quote:

Originally posted by Winchester 69:

Ganyana's personal carry choice (not his back-up rifle, a .500/416) is a standard-length action 9.3 x 62.

I agree with Ganyana.

I can easily get a 286 grain bullet over 2400 fps. and a 250 grain TSX bullet upwards of 2500 fps. in the standard length action of either of my 9.3X62s. I prefer this "little" cartridge to my .375 H&H (or a .375 Ruger). I just wish that Ruger had chambered the 9.3X62 instead of the .375 Ruger or, better yet, had teamed up with Hornaday to give us rifles, ammo, brass, and bullets for Sako's 9.3X66. Either one of these cartridges would have been a better choice than the .375 Ruger.

Dave

quote:

375 H&H on the way out?

I doubt it.

three-eighths

nothing will replace the 375H&H. I was in Zimbabwe two weeks ago and there was no 375rugger ammunition to be had. In five years you probably won't be able to buy a rifle chambered for it here or ammunition either.

Rich
Buffalo Killer

Its only been out what...just over a year? The only way we'll ever know is to give it the test of time. I DO see the H&H though, becoming a thing of the past in OFF THE SHELF FACTORY RIFLES. Key note there, for those with reading comprehension, I made it big lol

Less and less gun makers are producing proper action lengths, the Ruger lets them just use the standard magnum bolt fact actions that everyone produces. It took a few years for the WSM's to have a good selection of ammo and rifles other then Browning or Winchester. Look at it now, just about every single rifle maker chambers is, and pretty much every ammo manufacturer loads it. I imagine there are patents and such that have to run out before the other manufacturers can take hold.

I could see it popularizing the caliber. Cannibalizing 338 sales? That's what it's doing in Alaska. Might even cut into CZ-USA's 9.3 sales.
"NOW YOU CAN OWN A 375!" Financing not necessary.

quote:

Originally posted by Abob:
Phil Shoemaker is a pretty well respected guide here in Alaska but sometimes he thinks different than the rest of us, he took some heat on another forum for this article on long range shooting

http://www.riflemagazine.com/m...?tocid=1153&magid=82

Wonderful article. Spot on! I have shot three boars this fall, ranges from 2 yards up to 40 yards. Two by stalking, one on a driven hunt with dogs. What fun would it be if I had sniped them from 300 meters?

quote:

Originally posted by Winchester 69:

"NOW YOU CAN OWN A 375!" Financing not necessary.

Ha! I love that qoute, fits our in the works 404 wildcat perfectly

quote:

Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
nothing will replace the 375H&H. I was in Zimbabwe two weeks ago and there was no 375rugger ammunition to be had. In five years you probably won't be able to buy a rifle chambered for it here or ammunition either.
Rich
Buffalo Killer

No rifles or cartridges in 5yrs??
thats what some predicted for the WSm cartridges.... I feel 375r has a better future than what you claim.

There is bound to be just way too much emotion and nostalgia in this comparison, I mean Ruger is taking on the grand daddy of all belted magnums! Had the H&H been a more recent addition to the shooting world, I think a different song would be singing.

I read Phil's piece on the 375 Ruger, Well written and well though out. I been looking at one since they have come out. Ruger did a wonderful job on that rifle. And is selling well. The test is going to be, at what point others start Making ammo and chambering guns for it. I could be very happy with a Ruger African so chambered. Good no BS rifle, and a good bit of writing from a no BS guy. Now if they ever neck down that cartridge to 338 oh load will the fur fly.

The amount of chest hair aside, the 375 H&H is about all many hunters can shoot well with factory ammo. The UBER 375 H&H rounds (of which there have been more than a few) will continue to die.

PPOD

How many folks on here are going to be willing, say 5 years down the road if the 375 Ruger does not live up to some folks expectations, to come back on here and admit that they were wrong??????

Is the 375 Ruger a good cartridge, yes.

Will it completely replace the 375 H&H, I really doubt it.

quote:

Originally posted by George Semel:
I read Phil's piece on the 375 Ruger, Well written and well though out. I been looking at one since they have come out. Ruger did a wonderful job on that rifle. And is selling well. The test is going to be, at what point others start Making ammo and chambering guns for it. I could be very happy with a Ruger African so chambered. Good no BS rifle, and a good bit of writing from a no BS guy. Now if they ever neck down that cartridge to 338 oh load will the fur fly.

Howa quietly started producing these last year. You can order a rifle or barreled action for a pretty good price if you don't need CRF. CZ will also be chambering them this year

The 375H&H has worked for nearly 100 years now on every critter known on this planet and done so very well, so the old saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it..." certainly applies to the 375H&H. 375Ruger round may well be a success and would only hope it is, but there won't be any replacing or dropping of the the 375H&H in the forseeable future.

I think you might be looking at it the wrong way. The H&H won't ever die, we can all agree on that. But, if other companies pick up the Ruger, seeing the H&H in anything but a custom shop factory or straight custom built rifle just MIGHT be a thing of the past. It has nothing to do with nostalgia, or whats been doing it for years, its about money. Every rifle maker that makes a 300 Win Mag (read: nearly every sinle one) can also make a 375 or 416 Ruger without doing anything but changing magazine followers and barrels. No special actions, no extra work, no special run of stocks for these rifles. And they can do it at a lower price point that makes it available to more people.

Its going to be the same deal as the 9.3x62 - it became popular in Africa because the common man couldn't afford an expensive double rifle. Same stands true today, I'm sure there are a lot more hunters that can plunk down 600-1000$ for a rifle versus 1500 or more, which is becoming the common price of big bore rifles from the factory these days. The exception being the R798, but they're VERY rough. Heck everyone here even says CZ's need a bit of finishing work before they're DG ready. So thats a 1000$ plus 500-1200 of work from AHR. Now you have a 2000$ custom rifle. To really understand where the author of the article was going with this...think of it this way. If you're gonna need to spend 10-15k on a buff/bear hunt somewhere exotic, plus all the other costs, the average joe has to figure in every single cost. So an 800$ Ruger 375 thats ready to hunt, saves you lets say 1200$....thats an extra buff license, or airfare to Alaksa, or a PH's tip, or a couple extra PG. That could even be half your airfare to Africa, or some of your taxidermy fees. With the rising costs of hunts abroad, I see a REAL future for these bargain true big game rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
But I would respectfully counter-propose: convince anyone considering their first 375 to pick the Ruger over the H&H. It's the new kid with something to prove. Performance-same, rifle selection-worse(for now), components-same (worse for brass), factory ammo options-worse (for now).

Well, when my wife wanted a 375, and didn't want to spend more then $1K on one, it came down to the CZ and the Ruger. The CZ was a heavy, big rifle. The Ruger came in a trim, handy package. The wife is about 5'6" and weighs around 135, so a smaller and handier rifle was what she wanted.

Only problem was the small, thin recoil pad - which I replaced with a decelerator. Problem solved.

(I have no complaint on the CZ - I have 550 in 9.3x62 and love it).

Troy

quote:

Originally posted by Dewey:
Maybe it's my age or just general "orneryness", but, I am inclined to agree with Timberline. The superb 7x64 and .280 Remington rounds have not replaced the 7mm Mauser and I think that a similar situation will happen here.....could be wrong, JMO.

I have always had a 7x57 in one form or another and absolutely love the round, but in the eyes of the general public, this round is pretty close to dead. Take your 7x57 to a generic rifle range and when the guy near you asks what you're shooting, say "7x57" and he'll say "what?" . . . or take it to a generic gun store like Cabelas or BassPro and ask one of the guys behind the general desk (not the gun library guys who generally know their stuff) if you can get a 7x57 and what them say "huh?"

quote:

Originally posted by Steenbras:
.375 H&H is the preferred rifle by PH's in the Republic of South Africa. Not only because of easy reloading of reliable ammo, but because it finishes off anything that may or may not change direction.......

Or because with their gun laws, you can only have 1 rifle (generally, without a special gun collector's permit) and if you're gonna have 1 rifle . . .

Ya, the 97 year old .375 H&H will go the same way of the .30-06. . . . . . O. . . wait a minute. . . . .

Big diference there DW. The 30-06 is housed in standard, common actions and serves as a great general gun in far more places then the 375 of any flavor.

MileHighShooter you make some excellent points, but for one point. Was involved for some 40 plus years w/ engineered mining systems all over the globe and no matter how shophisticated, clever, productive, etc., the new or different the apparatus, machinery, and so on does not meet with the client/customer's approval, it is just that, a clever, different apparatus/item. In short, sales will generally solve most problems, but time will tell on the 375Ruger. I personally like the idea, but such a cartridge as the 375Ruger is struggling against decades of users w/ total trust and excellent experience of the H&H round. I will say that if any firm can pull it off, Ruger would be the one I believe for they have an excellent platform i.e., M77 and can offer it at an attractive price to the buyer. Now that you have me thinking about it, might even buy one!!

quote:

Originally posted by MileHighShooter:
Big diference there DW. The 30-06 is housed in standard, common actions and serves as a great general gun in far more places then the 375 of any flavor.

Magnum length actions are common. .375 H&H are common. Ammo is readily available. and loaded anywhere from 225 grains to 300 solids, my .375s have never let me down. There's better, there's worse, but it's a good all-rounder and will be around for a long time.

With proper loads for the tasks it makes a nice shoot-a-like to .375JDJ but a bit faster in T/C and related pistols for shooting hogs.

Three rifles, 3 Encore barrels here. Don't see trading any of them in any time soon. I sometimes use a .30-30 or my .30-40 sporter or my .300 Savage to hunt deer too. Call me old fashioned. My friend Bob says all I need in the world is a .300 Rem UltraMag. We both get our game.

.375 H&H isn't anywhere close to a deathbed.

I predict it's demise will occur about the same time as the .458WinMag. Never.

I agree that the H&H will be obsolete..in fact I am so convinced that I am offering my help to all my fellow forum members.
Send me your soon to be obsolete 375 H&H's, especially those "off brand" English makes, and then you won't be stuck with that "old" caliber rifle anymore. I will even pay postage and send you a nice thank you card.

(posted by proud owner of 2, and hopefully more to follow, 375 H&H rifles!!)

I can see the value in having a 375 caliber round in a standard length action but I'll be surprised if it takes the world by storm.

I'm still being told by some folks how much better the 325 WSM is than the old 338 Win Mag. Then I pull out the load data for both catridges and watch the air deflate from their balloon...

quote:

Originally posted by congomike:
I agree that the H&H will be obsolete..in fact I am so convinced that I am offering my help to all my fellow forum members.
Send me your soon to be obsolete 375 H&H's, especially those "off brand" English makes, and then you won't be stuck with that "old" caliber rifle anymore. I will even pay postage and send you a nice thank you card.

(posted by proud owner of 2, and hopefully more to follow, 375 H&H rifles!!)

Yeah, me, too, but all I want are all the left handers you don't need anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by MileHighShooter:
Big diference there DW. The 30-06 is housed in standard, common actions and serves as a great general gun in far more places then the 375 of any flavor.

O I understand that completely. However some of us also understand that the H&H has already 'been there, done that', and therfore holds a tremendous amount of hunting romance. For some,(myself included) more than any other round today. Just look at the old antiquated .30-30, or the 'heaven forbid, .45-70. They both conger up romantic images of a certain era of firearms for most. The .375 H&H has been THE ultimate all around rifle for Africa for awhile now. Now, don't get me wrong; I do see the advantages the Ruger has over the H&H, but also see some in reverse. Phils article in Rifle even has me thinking about getting a Ruger; but it takes nothing away from the H&H for me either. I see the Ruger as a nice little, modern, light weight, handy package in a shorter action, with lot's of power. But I also see the H&H in a wonderfully executed, rust blued Mauser action, with a classic british styled exibition grade, English Walnut stock. They are different things. I think the Ruger will become very popular, and may shove the H&H aside a little (to make room for itself); but not into extinction. Or the .45-70 and .30-30 would have been gone long ago. New designs do not always replace classics. Remember the latest & greatest '94 Win. chamberings: The .307 & .356?

quote:
375 H&H on the way out?

For all of those who chose to relinquish their .375's Please send me those care packages now !.

Post PM and I'll relieve you of those old cumbersome burdens of under powered Iron fossils .

I believe a Chuck Heston quote is in Order . " From My Cold Dead Hand " !.

I get a chuckle out of hearing such rhetoric. There are tons of .375 H&H rifles in service, and I doubt most of the owners of those fine rifles are going out and replacing them with the Ruger.

The .375 H&H has been and will continue to be a respected and much-used cartridge over much of the world.

It's as likely to fade into obsolescence as is the 6.5x55 and 45-70...

I often perceive these threads are designed to stir things up/tweak noses rather than generate an open discussion. Oh yes, it is wintertime so little else to do! So, I’ll throw my few cents into the can.

To recap the discussion to date…within two years of the .375 Ruger design there are now three factory derivative cartridges available to the firearms consumer and no less than two volume manufacturers (other than Ruger) are producing rifles and/or barreled actions in at least two of the four cartridges. I’d say that pounds the crap out of the .375 H&H within two years of its design/introduction.

That said…I perceive that the only cartridge that will prevent the .375 Ruger from reaching or exceeding the .375 H&H in use in all countries except perhaps Africa by 2017 (10 years from development of the cartridge) is the introduction of the .416 Ruger!

So there you have it…and yes, God willing that I’m still alive in 2017 and we haven’t lost our firearms freedom by then, I will repost to this forum (if it’s still around) in 2017 if I’m proven wrong and publically state that I made a mistake.

Jim

The 375 H&H will never die.

It's a classic. Probably will be with us as long as there are primers.

I think it will be a long, long time before the .375 H&H goes the way of the Dodo. It is not perfect, but it will get the job done in most cases with out a lot of noise, pushing and shoving.

I have a CZ African Safari .375 H&H (hogback) that I hand cycled the bolt on over 2000 times ... stoping to wipe clean and relube every 100 cycles. I dare any sharp shouldered cartridge to feed as smoothly as this .375 H&H does ... the cartridge literally oozes into the chamber like it was poured in.

There are faster .375s, but if I need a flater trajectory, I go down in caliber. If I need to hit something harder, I go up to my .416 Remington.

Again, I don't think the H&H will "die" as there are many in service, and many will continue to be. And ammo will probably always be available. But, gents, you need to look past nostaglia just for a second. I see the Ruger replacing the H&H as the general "big bore" in many factory rifles in the future. Yes, magnum actions are common...used. I know Rem offers at least 2, but we all know the opinion of R700 DG rifles lol. I have seen 1 in my life. Winchester right now has nothing. Savage I hear is offering one, but its quite highly priced for a Savage. Who is gonna spend 700-ish on a special run Savage when 200$ more gets a CZ? Browning offers it supposedly...yet again, never seen one nor talked to anyone who used one. Ruger makes one in the RSM, but thats a 1800+ rifle. Now here is the major point, other then CZ, WHO else produces a 375 H&H thats within the cost grips of common hunters? Ok, there IS the Rem 798, but that gun is ROUGH, needs another 500-1000$ of work, so again, its 2k. Right now, Ruger and Howa both produce rifles well under 1000$ in the 375R. People said the same thing about the WSM 9 years ago...now its in nearly every single rifle producers line up. If its not, they have their own (Ruger and Lazzeroni being the only ones)

So again, I don't see the H&H dying off like it will become this obsolete cartridge we speak of around the campfire or wow someone by showing your personal gun and collection of "rare" ammo. If CZ brings out a 375 other then the Safari Classic (2500$ gun) next year, there will be at least 3 major manufacturers offering a 375 at a reasonable price point. It honestly wouldn't suprise me to see a R700 and M70 in a few years either. No matter what our opinions are regarding class, nostalgia, "proof" and such, without a market, why make the guns? Now if we start seeing more rifles like the Howa, or R700, or hell Savages, in 375R, they're going to sell, because they're affordable. Whats affordable starts dominating sales markets (how many people thought Honda and Toyota wouldn't make it past the early 80's cause American cars have been around longer? Look at them now) and when something is selling well, more people make it, more ammo manufacturers will start producing it. If you build it, and it works, and its affordable, it'll probably sell.

I would love to have an H&H, but honestly the way I see it now, options are becoming more and more limited. Even Mark X's are online are climbing up to the 700-900 mark. The A-bolt I saw online was like 1100$ A CZ is 900+ and then needs a trip to AHR for another 500$ of work if you follow the good advice of the members here. Now, I can go to Gander Mountain right now, and get a 375R Afr. for 800$, and its ready to go. Same price as the next cheapest NEW 375 H&H, the 798.

Dying off, is probably the wrong way to look at it, and saying such things starts multi-page discussions like this one. ANd I will finish off by saying what I said about the WSM's years ago...no one is saying hey, go trade in your trusty old workhorse rifle!!! Thats not Ruger's intentions at all. However, if you're looking for a NEW big bore...

quote:

I have a CZ African Safari .375 H&H (hogback) that I hand cycled the bolt on over 2000 times ... stoping to wipe clean and relube every 100 cycles. I dare any sharp shouldered cartridge to feed as smoothly as this .375 H&H does ... the cartridge literally oozes into the chamber like it was poured in.

Grove wins a cigar. There will always be those who will buy fat, stubby, short necked, straight bodied cartridges. But in hot, dusty climates when fast follow up shots may be needed with heavy for caliber bullets, knowledgeable riflemen will want adequate body taper and a neck long enough for long, heavy for caliber bullets. In a word, he will:

favor the 7x57 over the 7-08
favor the .30-06 over the .308
and
favor the .375 H&H over the .375 Ruger

Right along with the bolt action rifle...

the rugger 375 will have zero effect on the African hunters (actual or wanna-be's). It's only chance for success is to cannibalize sales from 338WM users. Period. There just isn't any reason to get rid of a 375H&H to buy a Ruger, and that is what it will take to keep it around. I spoke with about 50 PH companies at Reno, and most had no clue what it looked like. To a man they opined that anything you wouldn't shoot with the old Holland round was the excuse to buy a 416 Rigby (not Rem). Enough african hunters here can tell stories about "missing" ammunition and being able to buy all the 300 H&H they needed. Your PH will most likely have a 416 Rigby or a double, not a rugger in anything other than the H&H ir Lott round. Inertia is a dreadful thing to overcome, and the H&H has nearly a century of dependable performance on ALL species of game.

Rich
my CZ collection has a 375 H&H

Just picking up my 375 H&H makes me think of far away places. The ruger can't replace that.
At the moment I have three, my favorite a Sako AV, a Custom shop Rem 700 and a CZ.
Phil

Holland & Holland's 375 magnum was with us before Phil Shoemaker and will be here long after he is gone to Rooger heaven. RIP

I just paid for my CZ LH Safari 375 H&H. I think the Ruger felt nice but both the CZ/BRNO lineage and the 375 Holland and Holland Magnum caliber have a pedigree that is irresistible to me.