Everyone buys what they want. If more choose the 375 Ruger, then the people chose the victor. The authors job is to give his impressions, like a movie critic ( sort of). It's the customers ( the economy in reality) who buy, or not, the product.
Remember not all will buy a rifle to have it reworked. If they can walk out a store with a Ruger with rings, it doesn't matter to them that a reworked CZ is superior. They aren't going to Africa, just elk hunting. I've seen lots and it sickens me to see a 19 y/o buy a Mossberg 4x4 and top it with a $99 dollar scope.
To them it's a great deal! A gun that goes bang!
Ruger is a cheap deal of getting a heavy hitting cartridge. The dealer sells a Trashco scope and wallah! The kid has bragging rights for a G.
The same kid will spend $300 at the bar, without blinking an eye. Try to tell him a $300-400 scope on top of a CZ (reworked) with rings being extra, is much better and he'll freak!

I'm not saying that the 375H&H is dead but, I see the majority buying the cheaper Ruger. Sorry guys it's a reality, a lot of hunters are not gun nuts.

The author who says 375ruger will eventually replace the 375HH, is that the same author who promotes WF-Hein rifles?
How about this question then ..Whats most likely to happen first?

A./ WFH will deliver customers rifles/monies
or
B./ 375HH will become extinct to 375ruger

The article is one man's opinion. Mine. You are free to your own.
anyone who knows me will tell you that I am not - and never have been - influenced by any advertisers or magazine editors.
I recognise that the 375 H&H is an icon and a great round. So was/is the 300 H&H. No one is telling you you have to trade yours in. I have been using them for over forty years and still own two. But the new Ruger IS and improvement and I am willing to listen to anyone WITH EXPERIENCE WITH BOTH who can tell me how the H&H is "better".
As for the silly nonsense about the new Ruger being no good in hot climates because it has too sharp a shoulder I guess the 318WR, 416 Rigby and 505 Gibbs will never make it either as their shoulders are even sharper.

As far as standing by Greg Hein my job as a writer was to honestly report on a rifle and action and they were superb. I also consider the man a friend and a gifted craftsman. He obviously is a poor businessman who got behind the financial power curve. i know he is still working on actions and hopefully everyone who placed money or faith in him will eventually receive satisfaction.

Hope you all have a good holiday season - even all you H&H shooters.

This topic has been beat to death, and then some. People have their opinions on both cartridges. One guy loves his H&H and the Ruger is a "Flash" in the proverbial pan. The next says the Ruger will replace the H&H since it can be built on a standard action. Both may be right. Personally, I won't be trading in my H&H, but it may have a close cousin in the form of a 375 Ruger as a safe mate at some point. That'd be mostly for chitz n giggles. The same goes for the 416 Ruger. It'll be touted by some as the end all in 416 chamberings. The reality is that the Rigby will be the one for the nostalgics, like my relatively young self, and the 416 Remington will be a pratical alternative. I'd say the Ruger stands a better chance of replacing the 416 Remington if any, but I don't think that'll happen either. Once again, my Rigby may eventually have a younger cousin for a safe mate, for chitz n giggles.

David

Well some guys have to have a new 2008 Vette....

and some of us would rather have a 67 Vette with a 427 with a six pack on top for carboration...

so when it comes to 375 bore, I don't care what is "Better".. the 375 H & H was the original and it isn't going to be replaced as long as folks like me, stand by the traditional instead of the new era wannabes...

as said above... there are a batch of better 416s around that the original Rigby... but if I needed a 416 in my life... it would be a Rigby...

and on Vettes... 63 to 67....but my favorites...

66 with the 396, or the 67 with a 427 Tri Power...beyond that the later ones are just wannabes...no matter how much faster they can be...

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
...But the new Ruger IS and improvement and I am willing to listen to anyone WITH EXPERIENCE WITH BOTH who can tell me how the H&H is "better".

It's not an improvement if it does basically the same thing (rifle weight doesn't bug me much, nor magnum length actions) and I have to re-work all my loads...buy more reloading stuff...buy different brass. Same reason I'm still shooting .300 H&H and .308 Norma instead of .300 WinMag. The .458 Lott was an improvement on the WinMag. The .375 Ruger is an act alike. It's not going to knock down a buff any better than a H&H designed before Bill Ruger was born.

People will vote with their wallets and we shall see but I don't see any shortage of .375 H&H rifles in the future any more than I expect the .458 WinMag to go away and be replaced by it's slightly better.

And a .30-40 Krag still kills a deer just fine even if some people never thought it was big enough for humans.

Happy Hunting,

I think the 375 H&H will be here for a long time

It has the power to do it.

quote:

Originally posted by jro45:
I think the 375 H&H will be here for a long time

Yes, but in smaller and smaller numbers, especially if it's life is dependent on today's and tommorrow's economy.

AC seems to have a handle on it.

roger

whoever believes the 375 H&H is on the way out is full of spider pup.

quote:

Originally posted by 458Win:
The article is one man's opinion. Mine. You are free to your own.
anyone who knows me will tell you that I am not - and never have been - influenced by any advertisers or magazine editors.
I recognise that the 375 H&H is an icon and a great round. So was/is the 300 H&H. No one is telling you you have to trade yours in. I have been using them for over forty years and still own two. But the new Ruger IS and improvement and I am willing to listen to anyone WITH EXPERIENCE WITH BOTH who can tell me how the H&H is "better".
As for the silly nonsense about the new Ruger being no good in hot climates because it has too sharp a shoulder I guess the 318WR, 416 Rigby and 505 Gibbs will never make it either as their shoulders are even sharper.

As far as standing by Greg Hein my job as a writer was to honestly report on a rifle and action and they were superb. I also consider the man a friend and a gifted craftsman. He obviously is a poor businessman who got behind the financial power curve. i know he is still working on actions and hopefully everyone who placed money or faith in him will eventually receive satisfaction.

Hope you all have a good holiday season - even all you H&H shooters.

Phil I applaud you for reporting exactly what you see, feel and experience with the Hein rifle but don't you feel that it would be proper to report the whole truth and mention that along with the superb quality of the Hein Rifle there are also numerous complaints (and suits) about late delivery, failure to complete contracted work, poor communications, etc.?

Will the 375 Ruger replace the H&H in Africa? Not likely, least of all not before all the sport hunting is gone. Will an affordable, off-the-shelf, American-made rifle on a standard-length action, using a one piece bolt, dispensing 375 power, be successful in Alaska? I expect so. The sourdoughs seem to have always appreciated powerful yet handy rifles like the Remington 600 in 350 RM and the Marlin Guide Gun. The Ruger Alaskan fits neatly into the same niche. Will I sell my 9.3, 376, or 45/70 to buy one? No, but if I had none of them I might give the Ruger a try.

As for Mr. Shoemaker's article http://www.riflemagazine.com/m...?tocid=1153&magid=82 I regard it one of the best pieces of gunwriting I've seen this year (even though it was written in 2003).

Hmmm, he's right you know, as an example the 9.3x62 has been dead for years, no rifles are made in that calibre and you can't find ammo or components anywhere... Oh wait ! I have one! I also have ammo! Oh and CZ makes rifles! If there was a round that was going to "disappear" or be replaced by something the 9.3 is a damn sight better candidate than the 375 H&H and it's still around and seemingly has a growing following.

First off, has anyone actually worn out a 375 H&H, you know, shooting gophers and praire dogs? I guess we can forget replacing those 375's with no rifling left from shooting too much. Another thing, if I have a nice custom 98 mag action would actually trade it in for a Ruger Hawkeye? Not so much... Ok have it rebarrelled to the Ruger round, and buy new brass and dies, or new more expencive ammo? Unlikely, but you never know, not.

If someone gives you stuff free or at a considerable discount there is a temptation to "shill" it to others. That is the expectation of the those that give you the stuff. If you want more "goodies" you play along. The test is to do it subtley enough to not have the reader say "Wait a minute..."

Saying that the Ruger round, however good, will "replace" the 375H&H is silly. That type of hyperbole ruins the credibility of the writer.

I like classics, but also am a big proponent of research & development. If someone can make a better mouse trap then that's great. The 375 H&H has a proven record. Time will tell about the Ruger. When I was younger, I and many hunters I knew then, used a M-94 Winchester 30/30. Now I don't know anyone who uses it. I have heard good things about the 7mm and 300 short mags, so I am not against new things, but like many, they have to be proven.

For those who are fans of the 375 H&H and fans of Boddington should know he endorses the 375 Ruger, but then he'll endorse just about anything. I will assume he is a 375 H&H fan also. I wouldn't buy anything based on his endorsement.

quote:

Originally posted by SlamFire:
In this months Rifle Magazine, an article on the Ruger 375 and Ruger rifle in 375.

The author predictes that the 375 Ruger will replace the 375 H&H, just like the 300 Win Mag replaced the 300 H&H.

What do you think?

He should quit smoking that stuff and start selling it...

quote:

Originally posted by Rick R:





They'll quit making the .375 H&H about fifty years after they quit making .45-70s
(and I don't even own a .375)

Yeah, I'll throw my two cents in there too.

I have nothing against the Ruger, more power to 'em. The market dictates that all the manufacturers must come up with new things to boost sales. I remember reading back in the sixties that the .338 mag would replace the .375. Winchester had a 300 grain load for it and all of the magazine writers raved over its superior sectional density and great performance in a standard legth action. Many Buff were slain with it, but over time it it never came to replace the venerable H&H. That most countries require the 375 as minimum had some effect, but many still allow locals to use the 318, 350,& 9.3's and I don't think many gave them up for the .338. This is not an attack on the .338, just an observation on the realities that exist and govern whether a more modern cartridge will replace an old standby. The market is full of neophytes who will buy up the latest and greatest and discard it as soon as the newest marvel comes along. The old H&H has a lot of romance and nostalgia attached to it, as a kid, I knew that one day I would own one and hopefully take it to Africa. I still have it, a custom stocked Whitworth, and to my shame, I did not take it, but instead, took my Rodda 450/400 double and my Vickers .318 because they both deserved at least one more chance to go back to Africa. I have promised the .375 next chance on a trip to Namibia for Gemsbock and Kudu, but will probably also take the old .318 for backup. When I look at safari pictures, the first thing I look at is the rifle, secondly the trophy. I am always amazed at folks that consider the firearm just a "tool" to do a job with. These are the ones that will make up the major market for the Ruger. As long as there are romantics and dreamers, with a love of Africa, Safari, and fine Rifles in their hearts, there will be a place for the .375 H&H.

My prediction is that the 375 Ruger will supplant the 375 H&H round much as the 300 WM supplanted the 300 H&H. It will never replace the older H&H.

As I stated I still own and use two 375 H&H rifles but I also own two 375 Rugers (which I paid for)
As soon as my son returned from Zambia he rushed out and purchased another 375 Ruger Alaskan (at full retail) from our local Sportsman warehouse.

Ruger claims they sold over 8000 of their new 375's the first year. Can anyone tell me how long it took H&H to sell 8000 rifles? Or how long it too Winchester to sell that many M-70 375 H&H's ?

I really like some of the newer rounds. But I'm also nostalgic. There's something, to me, about carrying a rifle chambered for a round with a long and rich history. It adds a bit of spice to the hunt. That being said, I own neither a 375 Ruger or a 375 H&H...unless the No 1 I have in 375 H&H flanged magnum counts.

Personally, I'd rather the manufacturers would put more money into building higher quality rifles than developing new rounds...JMO.

I have a 375 H&H Model 70 Safari. It's a classic, no doubt. But I have a hard time finding fault with a stainless steel, 20" barreled rifle for hunting in climates more adverse than Africa.

If the 375 Ruger had come first and had a 95 year head start, we'd all be laughing at the new 375 H&H design. Purely from a technical point of view, the 375 Ruger is a much more sensible design.

I have a couple of very nice rifles in 375 H&H but I hear the 375 Ruger calling me.

quote:

Ruger claims they sold over 8000 of their new 375's the first year. Can anyone tell me how long it took H&H to sell 8000 rifles? Or how long it too Winchester to sell that many M-70 375 H&H's ?

If you look at how long these rifles flounder in the classified section I think the Ruger has filled the demand with those 8,000. How many will they sell in the next ten years? None of us know, but it will not average 8,000 per year.

These new cartridges dilute the market and make it harder to get components for rifles that we already have. Ruger, like Remington, will support their cartridges as long as they can make a profit doing so. After that you are on your own.

Many of the "latest and greatest" will go the way of the 350 Rem Mag, 8mm Rem Mag, 6mm rem, etc. DO you think Remington cares that some guy has trouble finding ammo for his elk rifle? Hell no, the would be happy to sell him a new 300 ultra mag, J lock and all.

The Ruger may make it, but it will take about 30 years of strong sales for it to make the 375H&H obsolete.

Or the Ruger might die an early death.

Jason

quote:

If the 375 Ruger had come first and had a 95 year head start, we'd all be laughing at the new 375 H&H design. Purely from a technical point of view, the 375 Ruger is a much more sensible design.

True, and the same can be said for plastic Vs. wood for rifle stocks.

Synthetics were all the rage for several years. I might be wrong but I feel like I am seeing wood more than holding its own these days.

Many words describe us gun lovers, practical is not one of them.

Jason

quote:

Originally posted by Abob:
Phil Shoemaker is a pretty well respected guide here in Alaska but sometimes he thinks different than the rest of us, he took some heat on another forum for this article on long range shooting

http://www.riflemagazine.com/m...?tocid=1153&magid=82

Excellent article!

>>All too many long-distance shooters seem conspicuously shy of actual hunting and tracking experience. Maybe I should say that in reverse. The more actual hunting knowledge and experience hunters have, the less likely they are to risk long-distance shots. They realize hunting is a sport and receive more pleasure from a well-executed stalk and a 100-yard shot than a 300- or 400-yard Hail Mary. They also understand the difficulty and uncertainty of successfully tracking a wounded trophy and the sickening, heart-wrenching feeling when the animal cannot be located.<<

GrosVentreGeorge please check your PMs,Thanks!

Jeez! Just my luck.. I just bought a CZ550 in 375H&H and now I find out it's no good anymore...heh heh.

I second many of the opinions brought forth above about nostalgia being a factor here... as well as actual performance. A new cartridge that does not offer marked improvement over its predecessor isn't really poised to replace anything. This situation reminds me of the 280Rem vs 270Win debate. The "newer" one was so much better in 1957 than the old, outdated one from 1925 that it was only a matter of time... and here we are 51 years later and the 270Win is still the leader in that race by several laps.

Serious question though: what is the real advantage of a standard length action over a magnum length? It's not like I find myself running out of arm when working the bolt on the CZ. Is the extra half-inch that much of a negative?

quote:

Originally posted by mrjulian_1970:
Serious question though: what is the real advantage of a standard length action over a magnum length? It's not like I find myself running out of arm when working the bolt on the CZ. Is the extra half-inch that much of a negative?

If we were talking WSM's and thier clones, I would agree. But when comparing the cost of buying a standard lenght action or a magnum length one price becomes a factor.

CZ's aside, there is a significant price jump when you buy a rifle in a magnum length action as opposed to a standard one.

Just look how much kimber charges for thier magnum length 375H&H rifle. They could chamber the .375 ruger in the same action they use for all thier .30-06' rifles, and the price would dip significantly.

Also look at the price differences betwen the Ruger RSM and the Hawkeyes. Both do the same thing with a .375 calibre cartridge, but one is significantly cheaper.


.

I think what 458Win might have been getting at, is that the gun makers themselves, will displace the 375 H&H, not the shooting community. There aren't very many who will argue against the merrits of the H&H, so we can all drop that arguement right there. Look at it from the MANUFACTURERS point of view. You can get the same performance, without having a longer action, or a longer magazine, which would equate to special run rifles. The same machines and toolings and production lines can make the 375/416 Ruger, just by using different barrels. Its just like auto makers these days doing parts bin building, if stuff can swap around to different platforms easier, money is saved.

I know the Brownings are still offered in 375, but I've never seen one personaly. Nor have I seen them in a M70 or R700, but I know they exist. Ruger made them in the RSM, but thats a very expensive rifle. And with Remmy taking over the cheap M98's and making them into "798" and raising the price, they're helping narrown down CZ to being the only real gun maker producing this cartridge in any realistic numbers, and selling them. Take out the custom makers, and high dollar custom shop items...you're down to just one gun maker producing the 375 H&H. It'll take some time for other manufacturers to pick up the Ruger, but that could just be as much as a patent issue then anything else for a short time. Howa is producing the 375 Ruger, and CZ will be doing so in 2009. I don't think its going to take long for more gun makers to pick this up for the simple fact it can be more profitable because its made on an already common and existing action and bolt face. Pure and simple. Has nothing to do with performance, or "flash in the pan" or "latest greatest" or "tradition" or what a lot of people here think, which tends to be on the side of tradition. The manufacturers will produce what will make them the most profit. People said the same thing about the WSM line....its been almost 10 years and look at it now, its made by Winchester, Remington, Ruger (for a short time before their own proprietary short mags came out) Weatherby Vanguard, Howa, Savage, Tikka, Browning, CZ, Kimber, Benelli, in semi autos, single shots of various kinds and bolt actions. I think the deciding factor on the 375/416 Rugers longevity, is going to be factory ammo support. Hornady is all you have now, but lets give this a few years and see where it goes.

I think the .375 Ruger is quite a viable round.
I also believe that if Phil Schoemaker thinks it's good, then I believe it's good and would defer to his experience. If one, however, would look at the hot loads from Hornady for the .375 H&H magnum(or the reloads most people are able to achieve for the .375 H&H magnum) and the loads for the newer .375 Ruger, they would notice that both are so similar that there would be no contemplation regarding which is better. Ruger uses the same loading techniques for both and both are capable of the same velocity/energy per bullet weight. It's the same powder technology which may or may not be available to the typical handloader. Hornady .375 H&H magnum loads are hot with 270 grain bullets at 2870 FPS and .375 Ruger 270 grain loads at 2840 FPS are similar. Who cares about a 100 FPS difference except the real ballisticians who realize that high velocity from a .375 caliber bore makes the rifle unsuitable for dangerous game. This includes bullets of mono-metal construction. I have heard too many times that a .375 caliber bullet at over 2500 FPS is unsuitable for dangerous game, that I am mostly convinced that it is true. This information comes from people that are more experienced than I am and once again, I defer to their experience. There are too many studies that show that a .458, .474 or .510 grain bullet at about 2150 FPS is all one needs for dangerous game that I would not argue. There are too many studies that show that a 400 grain bullet at 2300-2400 FPS is all one needs for dangerous game that I would not argue. There are too many studies that show that a 300 grain bullet at 2400 - 2500 FPS is all one needs for dangerous game that I would not argue. I will always tend to believe approximately 100 years of field experience when it comes to what works but when it comes to rifles and cartridges of similar performance, I will stand by and listen to what works from the professionals, unlike myself!

I'm sure the newer choices are no worse than the older standards. Possibly better but then again, dead is dead.

Thanks,

jfm

The 375ruger has great practical merit and deserves a chance,I would not hesitate to have one, even in an more $$$ custom,(just like I would a 9,3x64 or 376 Steyr, if thats what I wanted), but I doubt the Ruger will ever drive the .375hh out of the BG arena.
The .375hh will remain in the hearts & hands of hunters for some time to come,much like the 7x57.
I would like to see .300ruger based on 375ruger case, with decent length neck.
With proper support from major rifle&ammunition manufacturers,it would bite into & soundly establish itself in .300winchester teritory....simply because their is more common call/need/desire for a .30cal than .375cal.

Many base their opinions on their particular circumstances not considering the rest of the world. The hunter in Europe or Asia buying a rifle (not to mention Africa) is not going to throw his money at the latest newfangled wizbang from the USA that shoots a cartridge that probably has to be special ordered. If the Ruger offered significant advantages over the H&H, it might replace it like the 375RUM already has.

This is a silly argument. They are both very fine rounds that will get the job done.

The Ruger was recently designed with a shorter action which makes the rifle lighter. It also shoots flatter and packs more of punch.

You can argue away whether the extra punch and less weight is needed or not. But it's obvious that the Ruger is here to stay. There are now more choices with the .375 bore. No one is forcing anybody into anything.

As usual, use what like. It's all good.

Mmaggi, you state that the .375 Ruger is flatter shooting and packs more punch. Where did you get that idea, Ruger marketing?

From previous post (Hornady .375 H&H magnum loads are hot with 270 grain bullets at 2870 FPS and .375 Ruger 270 grain loads at 2840 FPS are similar.)Same loading technique don't you know. This velocity number is stated on the Hornady ammunition boxes. This is not made up. They use the same powder and loading technology.
Do the research and you shall see.

Ok, since I owned both I like both. But I think the Ruger makes more sense if a newby is looking to buy his first. Since most of us reload the debate of being able to buy ammo anywhere is mute anymore.

I propose this. How could you convince anyone considering purchasing there first 375 to pick the H&H over the Ruger as far as performance goes?

quote:

Serious question though: what is the real advantage of a standard length action over a magnum length? It's not like I find myself running out of arm when working the bolt on the CZ. Is the extra half-inch that much of a negative?

That is something that has always made me wonder.

Not being obstinant here, but this:

quote:

If we were talking WSM's and thier clones, I would agree. But when comparing the cost of buying a standard lenght action or a magnum length one price becomes a factor.

CZ's aside, there is a significant price jump when you buy a rifle in a magnum length action as opposed to a standard one.

Just look how much kimber charges for thier magnum length 375H&H rifle. They could chamber the .375 ruger in the same action they use for all thier .30-06' rifles, and the price would dip significantly.

Also look at the price differences betwen the Ruger RSM and the Hawkeyes. Both do the same thing with a .375 calibre cartridge, but one is significantly cheaper.

Only addresses the issue of prices, nothing about functioning of the rifle.

I have come to believe too many folks that don't really shoot that much, have fell into the hype about short actions being bettwer than long actions, yet I don't know if even any experts could tell if a elk or a cape buffalo was shot with the 375 Ruger or the 375 H&H if looking at the dead animal.

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:

I propose this. How could you convince anyone considering purchasing there first 375 to pick the H&H over the Ruger as far as performance goes?

I just bought my first 375 and I picked the H&H over Ruger with no outside convincing required. Why? In no particular order: greater supply of brass, greater body of knowledge out there regarding reloading for me to pull from, nostalgia for one of the classic cartridges of the world, ballistically the standard by which all other 375's are judged, ballistically will do anything you would expect from a 375 caliber (if you need more energy I would think you'd be better off going up to 416-- if you want flatter trajectory you'd probably be better off dropping down in size, but the Ruger doesn't offer either of those "improvements" anyway), I didn't want a Ruger rifle, and I'm a skeptic when it comes to newer-better-greater.

I'm sure the Ruger is everything it is supposed to be, which to my understanding is "375H&H performance from a standard length action". Which may or may not have an appeal to some. For me that was not a benefit large enough to sway me from the "world standard" 375 bore cartridge.

For me, I'll take almost 100 years of successful field use and all the associated experience out there that goes with it. And yes, there is a emotion in the decision as well as rational thought. Jack O'Connor told me it was the queen of the medium bores

I will admit I can see the benefit from a manufacturer's point of view as mentioned above. But there will always be (in my opinion) a sizable demand for the H&H out there from people with the emotional attraction to the caliber if nothing else. A quick search on Able Ammo shows the following gunmakers currently offering the good ol' H&H: Browning, CZ, Kimber, Remington, Ruger, Sako, Savage, Thompson, Weatherby... at prices ranging from $536 to almost $3k (for a Remington?) The H&H is not going away.

Just like I don't think the 375 Ruger is going anywhere either, even though you can only get rifles made by Ruger or soon to be Howa (prices from $736 to $867), there will be a well-deserved following just as there now is for the WSM's etc.

But I would respectfully counter-propose: convince anyone considering their first 375 to pick the Ruger over the H&H. It's the new kid with something to prove. Performance-same, rifle selection-worse(for now), components-same (worse for brass), factory ammo options-worse (for now).

I must have missed something for the Ruger to be the default choice over the H&H.

I guess I'm really messed up as I have the 300 H+H instead of hte 300WM and the 375 H+H instead of the ruger. Oh-- also still have the old 458WM but you might talk me into a 458Lott.

In regards to cartridge design, we have a goal to propel a certain weight bullet of a certain diameter to a desired velocity. What is the purpose in reinventing the wheel. Looking at the new ssm's, ultra mags' ect ect. It seems as as though the big difference is to change the case demenisons to hold a amount of powder to achieve the previously stated results. Now I have never tried any of these new cartridges, nor do I intend to do so. Just looking at them I would think that they would not feed as smoothly as the older cartridge designs with gentle case taper and milder shoulder angles. As for length of action required, the long action vs standard does not bother me in fact I like the big action of my 375H&H CZ550. All of my rifle cartridges are classics, the newest probably being a 458 Win Mag, most go back to the turn of the century, 1900 or earlier and are fine for all of my uses.

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
Ok, since I owned both I like both. But I think the Ruger makes more sense if a newby is looking to buy his first. Since most of us reload the debate of being able to buy ammo anywhere is mute anymore.

I propose this. How could you convince anyone considering purchasing there first 375 to pick the H&H over the Ruger as far as performance goes?

Finding ammo just about anywhere isn't moot when you 1.) forget yours, 2.) it goes missing with your checked bag, 3.) you are running low 4.) you are looking for ammo for that barrowed rifle because your rifle went missing somewhere between checking it and arriving...

I have borrowed both 375H&H ammo and 458wm ammo in huting camps in the most out of the way places in Africa. You just can't do that with all that many cartridges, certainly not the Ruger. Now or for another decade or two at least.

JPK

Not trying to butt heads with Mr. Shoemaker, but I'd be surprised if H&H has sold much more that 8000 rifles to date in .375. Kind of like comparing apples to oranges. When they start selling them for the price of a Ruger, you can bet I will be buying them hand over fist. Even when the M-70 came out, there was little demand for something that large and expensive, most Americans did not need it and could not afford the luxury of a rifle just because they wanted it. The 30-06 was a "Big" gun and the 35 Whelan the next best alternative. Surplus Springfields and Mausers were cheap and more available to the working man than new commercial rifles. It seems like big bore ownership did not start to become somewhat common until the late 70's till now. Back then, I only knew a couple of people with DGR's and not counting all of the folks I know from here, now I know dozens. With more disposable income and a desire to own something unusual, coupled with fairly reasonably priced factory rifles, most anyone can have a big bore nowadays! I guess after ten years, if the custom makers start reporting they are building far more .375 Rugers than H&H's, I will believe the H&H has come to its end.