quote:

Originally posted by Brad:
Bro, you need apparently need to learn how to read...

Between the 3 you listed, I'd use the 270 because I'm most familiar with it.

For the different individuals you listed, it is a good choice.

However, while I was reading your post, the first thought was 7 Rem Mag, then 30.06. BUT, I would recommend a better recoil pad.

I've learned with my nephews that a good recoil pad can make them much more comfortable and it is not very expensive to have done. One nephew could barely tolerate a 270 and he was 12 and small framed. I put him in my 30.06 with a Pachmyer Decel pad and told him it was a 243 which he didn't know the difference.

He shot the 30.06 for 15 rounds without a bruise or complaint.

Stuff the 270 with premium bullets and you'll be fine.

i think a consideration of the 7mm remington ultra mag deserves a look for this bill. not too much recoil in a 9# rifle and will kill elk out to 400 yards. if 30 cal is in the running 300 rum, it will kill a moose out to 400 yards. both are verrrrrrrry flat shootn' up close use the gs custom flat nose now thats yummy

quote:

schromf, you beat me to a post but when was 270 ever an availability problem?

I wasn't talking about the 270 I was talking about the 27 caliber. There is no way near as many bullets avilable in the 27 caliber as there is in either the 7mm or the 30 cal.

Yeah there is lots of factory ammo, all in just about the same limited bullet selection 130 gr to 160 gr. No match bullets, and really no heavy for caliber which I like.

The 270 is a fine cartridge, but bullet selection is limited, always has been. The bonus on the 27 caliber is that what is available is good. But llok at any bullet manufacturer,, 30 has the best selection, followed by 7mm, then comes all the rest behind.

Which gives the 30 and the 7mm the most flexibility.

I also did a brain fart in the original post and typed 270 when I meant 27 cal. I am not going into cartridges at all.

30'06

quote:

Originally posted by schromf:

There is no way near as many bullets avilable in the 27 caliber as there is in either the 7mm or the 30 cal.

Yeah there is lots of factory ammo, all in just about the same limited bullet selection 130 gr to 160 gr. No match bullets, and really no heavy for caliber which I like.

The 270 is a fine cartridge, but bullet selection is limited, always has been.

Schromf,

I have a question. Just how many bullets is enough to be considered a good selection? You're statements are certainly correct to a degree, but when you have 3 main bullet weights, and 6+ major bullet manufacturers, isn't that more than enough to choose from for any given task?

There's no denying that there are fewer .277 bullets than 7mm or 30 cal., but I respectfully disagree that bullet selection is limited. My purpose has always been to get one load for one gun. So, if I look at what is available in the .277, I can tell, I'll be at the range a very long time if I wish to try every 130, 140, 150 bullet out there. And the 150 and 160 are heavy bullets for the 270.

Between Hornady, Nosler, Sierra, Speer, Swift, Barnes, Remington, Wildcat, there are 58 different bullets to choose from. This doesn't include Winchester, Combined Tech., Woodleigh (2), and Northfork (also 2).

Federal makes a nice lineup of factory 270 ammo.

I think you can have too many to choose from sometimes which makes reloading and rangetime rather tiresome. I try to pick only 2-3 bullets anyway and go from there.

Simply put, if you load up a 150 partition or triple shock, it is my opinion that you are good to go for whatever you are comfortable hunting with a 270 cal rifle. There's no need for a vast bullet selection on par with the 7mm or 30 cal.

It is also my opinion that the vast majority of those shooting a 30.06 are only shooting one of 3 main bullet weights: 150, 165 class, or 180. And I'd bet that most shoot the 180.

Just my opinion.

I'll throw in for the .270. Here's why:

Good selection of premium bullets in factory ammo--Pharaoh did not mention reloading. As others have noted, good availability, good trajectory, and, with the premiums, good penetration.

And for deer, who really cares about penetration?

If you have a friend who handloads well (or are willing to get into it yourself), then the envelope opens up a lot! Right now I'm throwing 150 gr. A-frames out of a 22" winchester tube at an honest 3050 fps. That's kind of warm, and I'm gonna back off a bit, but I'm sure I'll still be in the 2950-3000 neighborhood.

And if you're a penetration freak, just go with the TSXs.

Good luck and have fun!

p.s. Good parameters regarding kids/family/typicaly pursued species and a deserving topic

Ammo selection is somthing I should have looked at from the beginning. I was asuming that everyone on here rolls their own. But being able to purchase your ammo over the counter is a valid point. But regardless whether you load or buy, bullet selection is very important. I don't expect anyone would want to pick up a .270 and factory Winchester 130 grain Softpoints and go after Wapiti. At the same time, you could fire 220 grain Noslers out of a .300 Winchester at Pronghorn all day, but it's a bit overkill. Givin' the three cartridge choices, using premium bullets of your liking, what would fit that bill? A 120 grain Barnes X will plow through an elk out of the 25-06. A 150 grain Partion out the the .270 will put a moose in the freezer. And a 160 grain Scirocco or similar bullet would drop a griz out of the .280. The key would be a well placed shot, regardless of caliber. Recoil is going to be a big issue here with the smaller framed people. Again, which is one of the reasons I'm leaving the '06 or magnums out of the equation. I belive a lighter recoiling round leads to better shooting. And an accurate placed bullet of a lesser caliber will kill better than the biggest super magnum in the butt. Keep you opinions coming, I'm enjoying this.

I'll still go with the 280 -100%, you betcha. The 25-06 is at its limit with 120s, and that is the only choice for larger big game. The 270 loses rapidly with anything over 150 grains in weight. It does good work with Nosler's 160 grain partition, but that is a semi-spitzer bullet that also takes the 270 out of the long range category.
Secondly, even with factory fodder the 280 is the single best choice as all one will loose is 50 - 75 yards point blank range. I'm talking mart store ammunition here, not the premium stuff

quote:

I don't expect anyone would want to pick up a .270 and factory Winchester 130 grain Softpoints and go after Wapiti. At the same time, you could fire 220 grain Noslers out of a .300 Winchester at Pronghorn all day, but it's a bit overkill.

I know that today there is better but I
have killed elk deer and antelope with the
Win 130 power points bear also.

I must be living in the old days because I still use the one that I used in the older days.
Someone never got around to tell me they dont work anymore.
I will tell you animals dont require any more killing now than they did in the 1940-s
I only see better options as to we can choose from, I guess I still use old obsolete cartridges and ammo.
But all my animals are still dead because I took the time to get close enough to kill them with what I had at hand.Or I did not shoot.I know alot of old boys that would be shi!!ing there pants if they they knew what was going on in the shooting ang killing indusrty.
You guys are brain washed !!





John Plute killed the biggest bull in Colorado using the .30-40 Krag and traded it for a bar tab that he owed.guess he was using the modern stuff!

quote:

Simply put, if you load up a 150 partition or triple shock, it is my opinion that you are good to go for whatever you are comfortable hunting with a 270 cal rifle. There's no need for a vast bullet selection on par with the 7mm or 30 cal.

I agree with Doc, especially if you are willing to add the .270 Winchester Short Magnum to the mix. Push a 140 gr Nosler Accubond (or 150 gr Partition, or insert your favorite heavy for .270 premium bullet) over 3000 fps out the muzzle, and you are good to go for the game listed at any reasonable range. And with the 270WSM, you don't have to redline the pressure to get to the desired velocity. And anyone who can handle the recoil of a 30-06 can certainly handle the recoil of the short magnum. That is what I chose for similar applications, and I still think it was the optimal choice for the recoil sensitive.

Pharaoh2.

I'd take that .270 cartridge. The I'd run it through a .30 cal neck expander so I could load .308 caliber 180 Nosler Partitions in it at around 2,700 fps. Then I'd have a rifle made to match.

Rich Elliott

I'm a 270 fan, and have used it a lot. For deer there isn't much out there that can best it. However, I have also used the .280 a lot and it is my favorite of the two. I like the bullet selection, recoil is the same and accuracy of the two are equal. You can shoot heavier bullets in the .280 if you like. I can't see a downside to choosing the .280. It makes slightly more sense than the .270.
There's just not a huge difference. In all bullets weights that are equal, the .280 will shoot right along with the .270. Only factory ammo is loaded lighter for the .280 because of it's original introduction in the Remmy pumps and semi autos. As long as we're talking handloads, the .280 wins by the narrowest of margins.

From your choices I'd go with the 280 if you handload. If not, go with the 270.

For sheer versatility you might consider the 7MM Mag. You can always load it down or use reduced recoil ammo for lighter game and lower recoil. You can't load a smaller case up.

280, period. Until I read your caliber selections I was thinking 7mm Rem mag.

30/06 and /or .270.

My personal pick would be a NON magnum, 6.5 mm cartridge .....

6.5 x 55, 6.5 x 57, 260 Remington etc....

Secondly would be the same cases in say 7 mm if one felt he needed a little wider bullet.... which would be beyond my comprehension for need....

cheers
seafire

I agree exactly with elk hunter

Restricting my choices to the caibers you listed I would choose a 270 first and the 25-06 last. Although with proper bullet selection and good shot placement all 3 will work just fine. I select the 270 first because my hunting in the North America pretty well mimics your criteria and the 270 has worked splendidly for me on all the species you mention. I don't have any actual experience with the other 2 cartridges so go with what I know works.

465H&H

.280 for sure.....such a pity it don't get the sales it deserves.....it's the finest big game (non dangerous game) cartridge of all time and it's only serious competitor is the .30-06

quote:

Originally posted by pharaoh2:
Actually folks, I'm not looking for a new cartridge. My mind is set on what I like. I am just curious as to which of these three cartridges you would pick for the scenerios I listed. I find it facinating how different folks view these cartridges. I intentionaly left out the 30-06. It has been heralded the most versitile non-magnum cartridge by most folks. Same goes for the various magnums. I wanted to know your views on the three most popular full length '06 knock offs. I could open a whole new can of worms if I threw in the .30, .35 Whelen and .338-06, but they aren't quite as 'practical' for the intentions I listed. My peramiters are based on the hunting I do, and most folks I know do as well. It seems like a far stretch for one gun, but I don't come from a rich family. Everyone I have the pleasure of calling friend works hard for his or her money, and aren't as fortunate to have a full rifle battery. Typically one .22, one hunting rifle and one shotgun per household. Upon conversation with some friends, this topic came up, and the fires began. My curiosity peaked when the concept of hearing what the rest of the world had to say on this topic. Thank you all for your responses and comments. And please, by all means keep them coming. I'm always interested in hearing what others have to say.

phraroh2,

IMO - you really need two rifles.

Get a 270 and if there's anything you find it won't do - Buy a secnd rifle that will!

A 2 rifle battery consisting of a 270 plus one of the following would be awesome!

338 Win., 35 Whelen or 375 H&H

7mmRemmag or 30/06 if you intend not to reload. Otherwise a .280 Remington!

I don't have one, but what about a 264 Win Mag?? Or maybe a 6.5-06 that will do whatever a 270 or 280 will do with just a silly half milimeter less diameter. All will certainly produce!!

quote:

Originally posted by pharaoh2:
In your opinion. Long range deer on the flats. Close shots in the tree's. Elk and moose with a chance of sheep in the forecast. This rifle will be carried up mountains, through river bottoms, set up on the edges of fields, and fired alot at the range. Deer will be the primary hairy target. 9 times out of 10. But it will go on the occasional hunt for the bigger critters. This rifle will also be fired by large men, smaller women and teens getting into shooting. If you could name the perfect caliber for that one rifle, would you select a 25-06, .270, or the .280? Why? I'm not interested in actions or brands, just the caliber. What makes this THE caliber for asking so much of it?

In this order, if you handload, the .280 Rem. first, .270 Win. second and the 25-06 a distant last. Even if you don't handlod, I'd probably stick to that order provided .280 ammo is reasonably available. If not, then switch the .270 with the .280 if only factory ammo is to be used.
The reasons for the order of my choices takes in your stated location, which if I'm not too far off, also has a grizzly bear population. Therefore, my first choice of the .280 with stout handloads would use either the 160 or 175 gr. Nosler Partitions, not so much because deer and caribou need such stiff bullets, but because a bear might decide to appropriate your kill. The .270 with a 160 gr. Nosler might be an option in bear country, but that would be the smallest round I would be comfortable with, and frankly, I would not be all that comfortable. I certainly would not want to ahve to handle a bear problen with a 25-06 under any circumstances.
Note that I am trying to stay within the parameters of your original post. It's hard not saying you should get "X" rifle with "Y" bullet and well, you get my point.
Whether this would work with a .280 or not, I don't know, but this did work with a 30-06 and .300 Win. Mag. I worked up to a max laod for my rifle with 180 gr. Sierra Pro-hunters for deer. I then dropped back two gr. and worked back up to the same load with the 180 gr. Nosler Partition for heavier game. If you fired three shots of each load into the group, you wouldn't be able to tell which bullet hole came from which bullet, and the total group size was 1.25". In an area where a bear might be a problem, in my rifle the first two up would be the Sierras with three Nosler loads at the bottom for back up. That's for the 06. In the .300, I use the Sierras for practice and the Noslers for everything.
In the .280, you might try the 160 gr. Speer Hot-core for most game and the 160 gr. Nosler for serious animal encounters.
Just a few ideas for you to try out.
Paul B.

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
.280 for sure.....such a pity it don't get the sales it deserves.....it's the finest big game (non dangerous game) cartridge of all time and it's only serious competitor is the .30-06

Im a huge 280 fan too, fantastic round!

9 times out of 10 will be for deer.
As much I love the 0.277 caliber, I would give the edge to the 7mm diameter.

If it was elk 9 times out of 10, I would lean towards 0.308 caliber.

Doesn't really matter, learn to shoot it well and it will do everything you are asking with appropriate bullets.

Gentlemen

7X64 Brenneke

Cheers
/JOHAN

Of the ones you mentioned, the 280, versatility.

The advantages mentioned for the 280 have offsetting disadvantages.

The 280 has a purely theoretical advantage in bullet selection, IMO. It has a practical disadvantage in rifle selection, especially if gun money is as hard to come by as you are saying.

I say theoretical because under responsible hunting conditions and with premium bullets they perform identically in any North American animal.

30-06 it just works

Tiggertate,

I got lost on this thread for a while. I had it seperated for caliber=diameter of bullet, cartride=what this thread is progressed to.

For my first choice 30 is tops, most selection bullets from A-Z, then follows with 7mm. I like 7mm's a lot, don't get me wrong, I own several. There are some other real sweet calibers, but nothing in practicle sense be it a 7mm, 6.5mm, 257, or .27 cal beats 30 caliber selection.

Now talking in cartridge choice, I will stick up for the 280 Remington, I just got the barrel work done on my 1952 Model 70, chambered in 280 Rem, doing a full custom but it is a work in progress so to speak. But on the same case design ( 06 ) the 30-06 does everything and everything the 280 does, I just wanted the tad less recoil.

Back on first subject, I will still stand by my statement that the 30 caliber is the most practicle caliber.

I'd agree if 30-06 had been one of the choices. I was limiting my answer to the three rounds he specified. Notice how no one stands up for the 25-06? I thought there'd be at least one or two fans of it.

Seafire said it. 6.5x55 or .260 rem just because juniors involved. Ever see them 120 gr 6.5s perform on deer? You can go up to 160 gr bullets for the heavier game but I think 140s will do well. However since you want an '06 based case I would pick the .280 rem. You could load it down for jr. with lighter bullets.

No doubt about it- 280 bullet selection and it is an outstanding performer as others have posted.

Used to think I needed the 7mm RM, then I thought I needed a 280, then I thought I needed a 7x57, but I think a 6.5x55 will do just fine now!!

Like a big buck that just appears from nowhere..... It's MAGIC!!

Plain 308 and practice alot!

Runner up 30-06! IMHO

Regards

If we are limited to the three rounds in your original post and they are rounds not caliber. I'd go with a 280 with an achley 40 shoulder. Now you have 7 mag performance in an 06 based case. Screw factory ammo this is THE ACCURATERELOADING.COM FORUMS. with reloading taken into account the 280 AI is the round you seek. I'd build it and have it throated for a premium 160 bullet and let the games begin.

Out of the three allowed options, the .280. I remember reading about Jim Carmichel telling Jack O'Connor that he was going to have a custom rifle built, and O'Connor asked him in what caliber. Carmichel said .270, in deference and in tribute to the writer's all-time favorite. Carmichel said O'Connor told him to have it chambered in .280, it was a better round. That, to me, says it all...

Now, having said all that, if you open it up to different calibers, I vote for the 7X57. Recoil is very manageable even for a youngster, it will launch a 175 at about 2500, and it is, after all, a 7mm... Anyone ever hear about a guy named WDM (Karamojo) Bell?

My preference would be .270 just because I own one and am confident with it. I like how it handles and it drives tacks with 150gr. Partitions at 3000+ fps. I'd use it on damn near anything. If I wanted something I could grow into, it'd be a 7mm RM. The guns are typically a bit larger (longer barrel), but so is the bullet, powder charge, velocity and energy ratings, maximum point blank range, etc. If ranges were staying shorter on average and grizzly was a possibility, the .30-06 is the practical choice.

I'm not much of a fan of anything below 6.5mm for medium game, so the .25-06 is out of the question for me, but the various 6.5mm rounds can throw at 140gr. pill at reasonable velocities with good trajectory and will penetrate clean through elk and moose, I'd keep shots short for the .260 Rem and 6.5x55mm, but the 6.5-06 and .264 Winchester Magnum can reach out just as far as a .270.

I also agree with the .270 WSM, it seems like an excellent choice with 150gr. loads for all big game with extremely flat trajectory and plenty of penetration.

out of them 3 eh? I have used both .25-06 and .270 both built on the .06 case. I've owned 5 .270's at one time and now keep 1. Arguably the 30 cal. has quite a diverse range of bullets but I as well, like the 130grn. in the .270 I can say I have made more 1 shot kills with this caliber than anything else I have in my home. Meaning moose have dropped like no tomorrow, can't say that with the 30 calibers and I own .308,.30-06 and a 300win mag. Heard of the .280 7-8 yrs back and looked into that and never bought one as my .270 could not be replaced for any reason to go up a notch. I have used the .25-06 on moose but that was due not having any other rifle on hand and they do drop, some with one shot and others 2 or 3, use it mainly on caribou. Still do not need a .280