My boy just passed hunter ed and I plan on taking him deer first and eventually elk hunting after he proves himself on the range. I’ve read all the old posts on youth guns but most everything was written prior to the popularity of the 6.5. Any thoughts or suggestions? Also, I don’t reload if that makes a difference.

quote:

Originally posted by wamuley:
My boy just passed hunter ed and I plan on taking him deer first and eventually elk hunting after he proves himself on the range. I’ve read all the old posts on youth guns but most everything was written prior to the popularity of the 6.5. Any thoughts or suggestions? Also, I don’t reload if that makes a difference.

I just got back from Friday morning 500 yard gong session and saw yet another 6.5 that shot small groups. It was a custom gun, but it seems like they all shoot well.

He’s only 7 but big for his age. I’m torn between savage axis and Remington 7. Keep reading nothing but praise for both. I have plenty of full size rifles for when he gets bigger but want something that better fits his frame until then. Plus I have a another boy who’s begging to go hunting already so it should get plenty of use.

From all the clamber currently over the 6.5 Creedmore and since you don't reload , Creedmore ammo will be on the dealer's shelves for a long time. Is it adequate for elk? Well if Atkinson has claimed many Elk with a 25-35 the Creedmore should do the job nicely . roger

Nothing wrong with either choice, however, I lean towards the 7mm-08. I can personally attest to the use of the 7mm-08 on both elk and deer.

Good luck with your choice.

I have helped five young hunters start off with the 7mm-08. It is accurate (It started life by dominating metallic silhouette competition.), recoil is mild, and with a 140-grain Partition or Accubond, it will handily take down an elk. All of those kids are full sized adults now. The continue to use the 7mm-08 as their primary hunting rifle. No magnum mania for them.

I am presently having a new rifle built for my wife. She can handle my 416 Remington Magnum. I offered her any cartridge that she wanted. So, she will be taking possession of a 7mm-08.

The Remington Model 7 is a perfect match to the 7mm-08.

I will be getting an extra switch barrel for her in 6 or 6.5 Creedmoor, but that will be a Remington Sendero/Varmint barrel profile for use in a target stock.

The 7mm-08 bullet has a wider cross section, and it penetrates well enough to kill an elk. The pencil shape of the 6.5 mm 140-143-grain bullets are wonderful for long range shooting, but not necessary for hunting deer and elk at reasonable ranges (300 meters and less).

That's my take on this issue.

quote:

Originally posted by lawndart:
I have helped five young hunters start off with the 7mm-08. It is accurate (It started life by dominating metallic silhouette competition.), recoil is mild, and with a 140-grain Partition or Accubond, it will handily take down an elk. All of those kids are full sized adults now. The continue to use the 7mm-08 as their primary hunting rifle. No magnum mania for them.

I am presently having a new rifle built for my wife. She can handle my 416 Remington Magnum. I offered her any cartridge that she wanted. So, she will be taking possession of a 7mm-08.

The Remington Model 7 is a perfect match to the 7mm-08.

I will be getting an extra switch barrel for her in 6 or 6.5 Creedmoor, but that will be a Remington Sendero/Varmint barrel profile for use in a target stock.

The 7mm-08 bullet has a wider cross section, and it penetrates well enough to kill an elk. The pencil shape of the 6.5 mm 140-143-grain bullets are wonderful for long range shooting, but not necessary for hunting deer and elk at reasonable ranges (300 meters and less).

That's my take on this issue.

I took a couple of 14 year olds (twin boy and girl) out a few weeks ago hunting. They had never been hunting or handled a firearm. Set up targets at a range on the way and got them sitting and shooting across knees with a semi 22RF first off. They both did good and after firing off a packet or so got them to put some shots down range with my lightweight Marlin 7mm-08 with 120gr Sierras doing 3000fps. They both handled this with aplomb and were able to shoot nicely into the bull at 25m. Had earmuffs on of course and although the extra recoil and noise surprised them it didn't phase them one bit.

From kids that had never been in the hunting field or around firearms at all they really enjoyed the shooting and wanted a photo of themselves holding the all black Marlin.

Personally I would always go with the 7mm calibre no matter what case size, shoots the same weight and more as any 6.5 and have a far better range and selection of bullets. There is nothing not to like about the 7mm's and the 7mm-08 is about perfect.

Thank you for all the replies. I’m definitely leaning towards the 7mm-08. I don’t have the knowledge base that others have on here. So here’s a question. Would there be any advantages to the.308 vs 7mn-08 in the Remington 7 platform as far as performance on elk? Bare in mind it’s for a little kid.

And I know there’s a ton of great info on the 7mm-08 vs. .308 contraversy on here. I got lost in all the posts and wonder what the current thinking is now.

quote:

Originally posted by nugman:
Don’t overlook the 308 Win, or 270 Win. You can reload them down to lower-recoiling levels, and increase velocity as the shooter grows.

They may not be sexy, or “in style”, but they sure are effective, and ammo is common every where you go.

Don’t overlook the fact that he said he doesn’t reload

Can’t go wrong with either choice.

I know, I know. Feel like an idiot saying I don’t roll my own on Accuratereloading but it is what it is

quote:

Originally posted by wamuley:
I know, I know. Feel like an idiot saying I don’t roll my own on Accuratereloading but it is what it is

Plenty of factory ammo for the 7mm-08 to choose from. A 120gr grain Rem Corelokt will do the job on any hoofed animal and won't kick the snot out of a young fella.
Fired a few 308W's but most seem to think they have a bit more noise and recoil than the 7mm-08.
The 7mm-08 just seems to have a universal reputation for low noise and recoil compared with it's calibre and performance. Seems to be in that sweet spot, never heard anyone come up with any negatives. Every time I am at our range there would be more 7mm-08s being used than any other big game cartridge and everyone I speak too has nothing but good to say.

I see a few other cartridges being used on the range and invariably someone is cursing and swearing when trying to get a load to shoot, never seen it with an 7mm-08.

Either/or would work fine.

While I have never owned either one I've shot elk with a 7x57 and deer with my 6.5x55mm. Since the 7mm-08 & 6.5 Creedmore shoot the same bullets at the same speeds as the earlier cartridges they will perform exactly the same. I might choose the 7mm-08 for elk simply because it handles heavier bullets a little better.

I do own both and have killed elk and deer with them. If you don't reload the 6.5 is the way to go as there is cheap factory ammo everywhere. Also the 6.5 cm has even less felt recoil than the 7mm-08. About the same as a 243 win. If you start to reload the 6.5 cm is very easy to get to shoot accurately. 41.5 gr. H4350 and a 140 gr bullet is a good place to start. I bet someone close to you has one to try. Good luck.

The creedmore was conceived to punch tiny holes in paper, and it does a fine job of it. The 7-08 is a very versatile round. Even with factory ammo. The 308 may have a bit of an edge over the 7mm for Elk, but on the other hand, the Elk might not notice. Or care. A 7-08 is an excellent choice for a youth hunting rifle.

The Creedmore is an excellent deer rifle at most deer rifle ranges about 300 yards. Same for the 7-08. but the 7-08 is a much better elk rifle you keep ranges within Id say 250 to 300 yards. the 7-08 is a better deer/elk rifle. As to my 25-35, it will kill an elk most of the time on the spot at 100 yards, there is no room for a mistake, none at all on deer or elk.. My .338 will do the same at 400 plus yards..

For your boy let the recoil factor be your guide let him shoot what doesn't bother him..some kids can shoot a 30-06 or more, some need a 222 to start with. My dad made me shoot the 25-35 because he felt the 30-30 was too much for a boy, most of the local ranchers agree on that..I loved shooting uncle walters 30-06 but that was our secret.. and I made the 25-35 work, by listening to dad, who btw used a 250-3000 on at least 50 head of elk and never shot one twice that I know of..

Thank you all. I started hunting at 11 with a .300 marlin and went to a 30-06 at 14 and the recoil never bothered me. I’ll start him on a .22, progress to my .22-250 and go from there. 7mm-08 in the Remington 7 it is. I’ll hopefully post some holes in paper from him as a follow up. bTW I love this site, enjoy reading all the forums on a daily basis, and I hope someday I have the privilege to go on the trips and adventures that many on here go on. -Jared Valenta

You'll have no regrets. BTW Hornady load Custom Lite low recoil ammo which for the 7mm-08 is a 120gr SST at 2675fps.
My reloads of 120gr at 3000fps are pleasant enough to shoot so the Custom Lite would be nice. Even the standard 140gr in the 7mm-08 is not a problem so far as recoil and noise and no nasty muzzle blast from my 22" Marlin barrel.

There can be a huge difference in a young starting hunter and one a couple years down the road.

If I didn't reload I would start him with the creedmore
.

I was handed a full military 03-A3 for my first hunt as a very skinny 12yoa I hated that rifle.

The next year I used a scoped 99 in 250-3000 and killed a deer.

A few years later I restocked the O3-A3 and hunted with it a lot after that.

I started a lot of young hunters with a TC carbine in 357MAX. at under 5lbs and low recoil.

They killed deer and just loved it.

When they got older and size increased they moved to bigger calibers.

That is why I tend to use low recoiling rifles for kids first hunts.

I own two 6.5 CM's and three 7-08's

Both cartridges loaded with 100-120 grn bullets will be great for your youth hunter but IMO the 7-08 gets a slight nod for growth as it will push a 140 grn bullet about 100 fps faster then the 6.5 CM

But in reality neather is a definitive standout in the 2.8" class of cartridge above one or the other.

The rifle fit is the most important in a youngster.

Pick the one that turns your crank as half a mm on bullet diameter and almost identical case capacity equals same results with what ever your shoot
Joe

My vote is Rem Model 7 and 7-08 . . .
AND
I am a 6.5 kinda guy since the 60s.

Wamuley, I applaud you for getting your son a rifle at 7 years of age. My father was and is a yellow dog Democrat, and wouldn't let me have a gun at home. I moved out at fifteen, and have been an avid shooter, hunter, and fly fisherman ever since (soon to be fifty years at those pursuits.
I forgot to say anything about how important fit is. If your son is lanky, or long necked, he would be well served with a stock resembling the Sako Hunter style from the early nineties. McMcillan makes those for any gun. If he is stock, and short necked, a "classic" style stock may fit him better. With either body type, the Model seven would be a dandy. The 7mm-08 can achieve full velocity with a shorter barrel than the 6.5 Creedmoor requires. You are a great dad.

quote:

Originally posted by wamuley:
My boy just passed hunter ed and I plan on taking him deer first and eventually elk hunting after he proves himself on the range. I’ve read all the old posts on youth guns but most everything was written prior to the popularity of the 6.5. Any thoughts or suggestions? Also, I don’t reload if that makes a difference.

Since you don't handload, the Creedmoor is the clear winner. Factory ammo is abundant, of a great variety, and generally quite accurate.

I've taken elk with the 7-08, and I doubt the outcome would have been different with a 6.5 Creedmoor.

Nice thing about the Creedmoor is the ability to buy lighter bullet weight loads of 100 and 120 gr's.

As to rifle, PLEASE DO NOT buy the boy the pencil-barrel version of the Model 7, or really any version. That rifle is NOT designed for kids and is an unruly kicker. Get something with more barrel weight and a better stock shape. The Model 7 stock amplifies recoil with its archaic comb. I think more kids have been ruined to centerfires by that supposed "youth rifle" than any other rifle I can think of.

The 6.5 Creedmoor is a very good case design being a bit shorter, less taper, and a sharper shoulder. It's a great round. So is the 7mm-08! Toss a coin. I stocked up on several Howa Mini rifles in 6.5 Grendel for a kids first deer rifle. When they get bigger and may go elk hunting, I'll get something more appropriate for that. In the meantime the howa mini in the Grendel is really a perfect rifle for a young shooter.

Rem Mod 7 in 7mm 08. You can load 100 grain TSX and keep going to 160 gr Accubonds for a great rifle out to 300 meters.

The other option is to spend a bit more on the Kimber Montana or similar ultra light rifle in 7mm 08

Brad, you’re the first person to call out the model 7 as being a bad youth rifle. I’m just curious how many others out there feel the same??? I’ve been told it’s a perfect entry-priced youth gun in the smaller calibers. I had made up my mind but now I’m second guessing myself if the Savage Axis II wouldn’t be a more appropriate choice.

I had to make the same decision. My boy is 11, passed his hunter safety this past summer, and has his 1st deer hunt in a few weeks. I did a lot of research on youth guns and settled on the Mossberg patriot youth http://www.mossberg.com/catego...berg-patriot-bantam/
It cost $320 out the door (included shipping) from Bud's Guns to my FFl dealer. Recessed target crown, fluted barrel, spiral fluted bolt, adjustable trigger, 12 to 13 LOP, it is actually alot of gun for such a low price. I opted for the 7mm-08 so he can use it for elk starting next year. I opted for the HSM low recoil ammunition since he has only shot 22's up to this time. I sneak in Privi regular recoil rounds in between and he is not even noticing the difference. I have him practicing while standing, kneeling, and mostly sitting while shooting off the top of my backpack as his rest. Funny side note, I use a Blaser R8, shortened the stock and have 3 different size recoil pads (with scope over $4k dollars), and years ago I bought a 7mm-08 barrel for him to use, now for his 1st hunt he opted for his own rifle with a traditional bolt.
http://www.mossberg.com/produc...-bantam-rifle-27852/

Can't believe no one has thrown out the Ruger American. I'd take it any day over the Savage Axis. I bought my nephew a RAP in 6.5 Creedmoor last year. Great little gun.

One thing about Model 7 is you can buy a youth stock for it and then switch out. Don't know if Ruger has that?

Congratulations to both of you. Recoil is affected directly by weight of the firearm, the heavier the less felt recoil. The cartridge bullet weight, the heavier, the more recoil. Powder load, the more pressure and power generated, the more recoil. Indirectly, gunfit as has been mentioned, is very important and balance.
Can he hold the rifle up well and shoot it adequately or only in supported positions.

The calibers mentioned are adequate for deer but For elk, other choices are better. He’s seven and it will be five years before he can go after elk and with it a lot of growing.

I would get him a single shot break open rifle that you can get for $120 new and nothing wrong with used. Put a fixed 4 power scope on it. Get the wood stock version and feel freely to cut the buttstock to his length of pull. Save the excess and use it to add as he gets bigger. If it fits him, he will enjoy the experience much better. He won’t say it’s fine when he is belted by recoil and wants to please you and get your approval.
single shot will train him to make it count. I would get a .243win. And make it work for five years. Take him predator hunting to get lots of trigger time.
When he’s older and you can better gauge his size and ability, I would get him a .270win. And start with a 110gr. bullet and climb from there as you see fit.

Best of luck to both and hope you build lots of memories together. You are blessed.

Personally I would stick with a couple of the old classic calibers. 6.5x55 Swede. They have been using them over there for well over a 100 years for bear, moose ect. Next choice would be the 7x57 Mauser. It can throw a bit heavier bullets, although both are well know for the ability to get the job done. The 7x57 is also know as .275 Rigby. Both are rather mild in the recoil dept. Last week I shot about 40 rounds through my 7x57 and noticed no soreness from recoil.

quote:

Originally posted by jkingrph:
Personally I would stick with a couple of the old classic calibers. 6.5x55 Swede. They have been using them over there for well over a 100 years for bear, moose ect. Next choice would be the 7x57 Mauser. It can throw a bit heavier bullets, although both are well know for the ability to get the job done. The 7x57 is also know as .275 Rigby. Both are rather mild in the recoil dept. Last week I shot about 40 rounds through my 7x57 and noticed no soreness from recoil.

Yup, and then there's this. No Differences

quote:

you can buy a youth stock for it and then switch out. Don't know if Ruger has that?

Yes. You can buy a Ruger American standard rifle, 22"barrel, short action cartridge, like 7-08 or 308, and then order the Compact rifle stock from the Ruger Shop. You will then have two stocks, including a 12.5" LOP on a short action with 22" barrel. Pretty nice. The standard stock for adults, the short for kids.
PS: you can only do this in the short-action calibers. The 270 and 30-06 do not have a Compact aftermarket stock at Ruger Shop, though one can always hack off an inch or so from a stock if you don't mind a non-reversible alteration.

wamuley
No matter which caliber you choose, spend some money on a "cushy" HiVis recoil pad as many factory pads are rigid. These are very soft and will make a big difference.

I just barreled a left hand SA Stainless Rem 700 action this weekend for my 13 yo daughter (left eye dominant). A #2 Shilen 6.5 caliber barrel...and I chambered it in 6.5 Creedmoor and cut to 22 1/2 inches. Should be a perfect rifle for her.

I've killed deer and elk with both 6.5 and 7mm 140 to 160 grain bullets at 2550 to 2700 FPS. No difference. I would buy the rifle he likes / fits best and leaves you some money for more ammo for him to shoot it. Lot's of good choices today from Ruger, Mossberg, Savage and others that fit that bill.
It's a great time for a dad so enjoy it!!

IF elk is in the future, I would consider the 308. You can start them with Hornady Managed recoil for deer. When they get older, the 308 has a ton of factory ammo from 110 to 180 grains.

quote:

Originally posted by wamuley:
Brad, you’re the first person to call out the model 7 as being a bad youth rifle. I’m just curious how many others out there feel the same??? I’ve been told it’s a perfect entry-priced youth gun in the smaller calibers. I had made up my mind but now I’m second guessing myself if the Savage Axis II wouldn’t be a more appropriate choice.

Buy a rifle that he isn't going to want to sell when he gets older. That would be a Winchester 70 Classic Compact. I have no comment on the 7-08 vs. the .308, but I can say that I have been using a .308 Winchester 70 Classic Compact for many years and I wouldn't give it up. Too easy to carry, accurate, control round feed, looks nice, and they seem to hold their value.

Well, after handling a bunch of rifles I went with the Ruger American Compact in .308 and bought a few boxes of Hornady Custom Lite reduced recoil 125 gr SST to start with. Last question. Suggestions on a variable low weight/profile scope top it off with? Thank you everyone for all your experience, information, opinions, and insight.

To clarify, does anyone have a suggestion for a 300-$500 scope that would compliment the 12.5” length of pull and 18” barrel? I’m thinking low profile and light weight. I myself have a Zeiss Conquest 4.5x14. 90% of the time I crank it to 14 right before I pull the trigger (aim small miss small). I’m wondering what the best eye relief, size, weight comprise would be???