Hi guys, here in Italy we have the possibility to shoot at 330 yards, in some case at 500-600. For this reason we havn't a realy long range culture like in USA.
Witch is the most used or the best cartridge for 1000 y target shooting???
Thanks

Faina

Faina, many shooters use the 6.5/284 for 1000 yd matches, also the 6 BR and blown out versions of it. Many use 308 but usuallly only when required to by Palma or hi power rules. Much info can be obtained on long-range.com and benchrestcentral.com.
Larry

Ciao Faina - I thought there was a thread a couple of weeks ago talking about using .308-.378 Weatherby for 1000 yard shooting. I believe the .308, 180g bullet (could have been 165g) is fired at 3400-3500fps at the muzzle.

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/3221043/m/307107787

Scroll down to Doc's post about using a 30-378 Weatherby Accumark at 1000 yards.

I sincerely hope it is the 30/378 it's what I've been using . My Rifle is far more accurate than my skill of using it ( unfortunately ) I hope to improve with practice . I'm seeing around 3460 FPS with a 168 grain pill .

Shoot Straight Know Your Target . ...

It depends on how many shots you are going to fire at a time. In the competitions where you have to shoot from a prone position or if you have short time limits because of changing wind conditions, etc. the big 30's get hard to shoot because of the increased recoil.

The 6mm and 6.5s are a lot easier on the shoulder but the big 30's are probably the best.

Here's the current International Benchrest 1,000 yard record group shot last year in Ohio with a 240 grain SMK out of a big 30.

the most important aspect of LR shooting is practice.
a 30-378 is gonna burn out the throat about the same round count a 30-06 is broke in good.
how much is it gonna cost to shoot 1K rounds of 30-378?

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:
It depends on how many shots you are going to fire at a time. In the competitions where you have to shoot from a prone position or if you have short time limits because of changing wind conditions, etc. the big 30's get hard to shoot because of the increased recoil.

The 6mm and 6.5s are a lot easier on the shoulder but the big 30's are probably the best.

Here's the current International Benchrest 1,000 yard record group shot last year in Ohio with a 240 grain SMK out of a big 30.

WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW! One for each bullet hole!

That's truly infreakincredible shooting!

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:
the most important aspect of LR shooting is practice.
a 30-378 is gonna burn out the throat about the same round count a 30-06 is broke in good.
how much is it gonna cost to shoot 1K rounds of 30-378?

I concur. A good 30-06 match rifle will best serve you. Barrel life for practice is very important. This is especially the case for rifles that you will hold when shooting; prone with sand bags (or bipod) or prone unsupported. If you are just setting the rifle on a bench and weight is not a problem then the other cartridges are viable to some extent though barrel life is still important.

Larry Gibson

While you should not saddle your self with inferior equipment, at 1000 yards there are many more factors than equipment that come into play. Practice shooting and wind doping are, I suspect, far more important that the caliber you select, within reasonable limits ie. don't shoot a 22RF for example. 338Lapua, 338/06, 300 Win Mag. and the above mentioned rounds come to mind. Get what you can afford to shoot a lot.
Peter.

Thanks all for your infos.
I wonder... What I can understand is that a lot of cartridge can give sotisfaction at long range, but more depends on the rifle, load and at first place at the shooter.
As example, what do you think about one Remington 40 XB in cal. 30'06??? It must be a good gun and with a bit tuning by a good gunsmith...... It's crazy??? I have a bit experience with the old '30, also in target shooting at 330 y, with my Remington 700 BDL.
What type of scope I need to use for long range??

Faina

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:
It depends on how many shots you are going to fire at a time. In the competitions where you have to shoot from a prone position or if you have short time limits because of changing wind conditions, etc. the big 30's get hard to shoot because of the increased recoil.

The 6mm and 6.5s are a lot easier on the shoulder but the big 30's are probably the best.

Here's the current International Benchrest 1,000 yard record group shot last year in Ohio with a 240 grain SMK out of a big 30.

That is some fine shooting...

quote:

Originally posted by KSTEPHENS:
the most important aspect of LR shooting is practice.
a 30-378 is gonna burn out the throat about the same round count a 30-06 is broke in good.
how much is it gonna cost to shoot 1K rounds of 30-378?

Ever try to solve this problem by altering the chamber/freebore/rifling dimensions? Harder and more heat tolerant barrel material?

quote:

a 30-378 is gonna burn out the throat about the same round count a 30-06 is broke in good.
how much is it gonna cost to shoot 1K rounds of 30-378?

Yep, agreed.

For long range work I would go 7mm and take advantage of the high BC bullets avaliable for it, like the 162 hornady Amax, which has a BC of .625.

With cartridges like the 284 win and 7mm WSM, recoil and barrel life will be more than acceptable.

http://www.rifleshootermag.com/ammunition/seven_092105/

quote:

Originally posted by Faina:
...more depends on the rifle, load and at first place the shooter.

Absolutely!

quote:

As example, what do you think about one Remington 40 XB in cal. 30'06??? It must be a good gun and with a bit tuning by a good gunsmith...... It's crazy???

It would be a fine step along the way. But you do not need to start with it.

quote:

I have a bit experience with the old '30, also in target shooting at 330 y, with my Remington 700 BDL.

What kind of groups are you getting with your current 30-06? You can have it Blueprinted, weight added with a proper stock choice and have a fine rifle to "learn with". You may be able to wait on getting the barrel swapped for awhile, it just depends on how the current one shoots.

Are you currently using Match Prepped and Weight Sorted Cases?

Match Grade Bullets - Seated Into-the-Lands?

quote:

What type of scope I need to use for long range??

I prefer as much Power as I can get. You also need Target Turrets at that distance.

You will find a HUGE benefit in mounting the Scope in Burris Signature Rings with the Eccentric Inserts as you are "learning" to shoot at the very long distances.

Then if you decide you really like shooting way out yonder, if you see a significant improvement in your groups simply due to "practice" while wearing out a few barrels, then is the time you should get all the Trick goodies.

It is not possible to "purchase" Groups like the one shown above. They only come with many years of Trigger Time.

Best of luck to you.

Hot Core, what do you say is seriously wise. Starting and learning step by step....
I have a rifle that shot very nice groups, 0.3 MOA, sometimes better, depends from my training level. But this have a hunting stock and 6x40 scope. It's a Sabbati cal. 6,5x55 with Lijlia #5 barrel.
Maybe at first I could change the stock for a larger and the scope with a 36x or 40x....
6,5 caliber have high BC bullets.
For this I use Lapua brass and bullets.

Faina

quote:

Witch is the most used or the best cartridge for 1000 y target shooting???

You'll get 100 different answers. If you go to any of the benchrest sites and look at the 1000 yard results from matches, you can see that quite a few differing carts are used with success.

The most important thing in longrange accuracy is rifle quality, which is much more important than the cartridge you select. Then, that perfect rifle chambered for one of the many competent cartridges must be fired with near perfect ammo by an expert marksman in good conditions.

Good Luck

Reloader

quote:

Originally posted by Faina:
...I have a rifle that shot very nice groups, 0.3 MOA, sometimes better, depends from my training level. But this have a hunting stock and 6x40 scope. It's a Sabbati cal. 6,5x55 with Lijlia #5 barrel.

Hey Faina, That is a fine place to start, because you already have an accurate rifle.

quote:

Maybe at first I could change the stock for a larger and the scope with a 36x or 40x....
6,5 caliber have high BC bullets.
For this I use Lapua brass and bullets. ...

Yes, a higher power scope is needed and make sure it has Target Turrets.

I was speaking to an old buddy today about Reticles. He prefers a "small Dot" with thin crosshairs. I still prefer a Duplex for extremely long distance, but it is a personal choice. When shots are a bit closer, say inside 600yds, I prefer a Mil-Dot for Targets.

If you smoke - STOP. If you drink coffee or tea - switch to water. Anything that will have an effect on your breathing, heart beat, and muscle control must be watched very carefully. Join a Martial Arts Class as soon as possible that has a focus on discipline and muscle control. ALWAYS wear sunglasses when outside - take care of the things you need the most. Protect your ears with plugs and muffs. Build upper body and arm strength.

And whileyou are doing all of that, shoot as much as possible - at longer distances (300-600m) - and keep good records. Learn from the guys who actually do the long range shooting. Just getting the right routine for your ammo can take a good bit of time to Develop. Have patience and resolve to constantly improve.

You have a good start with your current rifle. No need to spend yourself into the poor house when you are just starting.

Go into a dark, totally quiet room and Dry Fire your rifle with your eyes closed. Move the Trigger as s-l-o-w-l-y as possible while trying to "feel" it moving. If you can feel it move, then it needs to be adjusted, tuned, whatever, so you can repeat this step and never "feel" it move at all.

P-FLR your cartridges and Seat the Bullets 0.005"-0.010" Into-the-Lands as you are Developing the Load using the never improved upon Creighton Audette Method. This allows you to locate the best Harmonic and will be a HUGE help in the long run.

Continue to learn and continue to have patience.

Best of luck to you.

I don't see many of the BIG 30's on the line these days unless it is Heavy Gun class. For a rifle held to a 16.5lb limit, they creat too much torque and recoil, even with a break. My current 1000yd light gun is a 300RUM and I will DOWNSIZING next time.

A 6.5mm something or other would be my suggestion. I am currently running a 6.5x55AI that is wicked accurate.

6.5x55
6.5x55AI
6.5x284
260
260AI
6mm BR
6mm Dasher

quote:

Sick, sick sick, sick, sick.
Sick. That is totally sick.
Is it me or is that just sick?
I'm having trouble believing how, uh, you know... sick that is.
Sick.

I shoot a 308 because that is what I had to build on. I have a Lothar Walther 300 win mag barrel that will be going on a Savage 110 later this year. I love recoil but I would like to build a 243 on a Savage.

This is what I have learned from shoot in f class matches.

The 30-06 will out do anything the 308 can do.

The 300 win mag will out do the 30-06.

The 243 loaded with 107gr match bullets has the almost the same down range ballistics as the 300 win mag.

The 338 Lapua mag is the king of the hill below the 408 based rounds.

Here are the rubs.

The 338 class of cartridges are punshing to shoot 60 plus rounds without a break. In most F-Class match breaks are a no no. They have way less drop at 1k and use about half the windage of a 30 cal.

The 300 mag are also on the harsh side even out of a 14# gun, but you can keep a 190gr at 1300fps (or faster) at 1k. Less drop than a 308 or 06 and better on the wind.

The 308 and 06 are fine rounds and will work very well. They are easy on the shooter but the wind will play with them hard past 800 yards. The ony bullet that seems to out shine the other are the Lapua Scenar. I have never shot them but was very impressed at the last shoot buy there wind bucking ability. We had a 10mph wind that would gust to about 15 from quater to full value. I had 10.25 moa at 1k the guy shooting the Scenar had 7.

I think the 243 might be the answer. Almost the same down range as the 300 win mag and less recoil. That give you the chance to concentrate on the 100 other things it takes to clean a target at 1k.

The 6.5 and others spec out great but for me they are the flavor of the week. It is the shooter that makes it happen. Pick what you like and shoot it. fwiw

this is a very interesting thread... has anyone mentioned that new high powered cartrige barret or someone made for places that banned the 50bmg? or is that for the big bore gun area...
im now interested in building an accurate gun and thinking about a 338 win mag. would you suggest getting a custom made non tapered barrel?
brownells has shilen barrels for a mauser 98 for about 250 i was thinking about getting one of those.
well a friend is, im posting on here for a friend a bit.
for myself i was thinking about a ruger target model in 308 win, after hearing from a friend about how good his was in 22-250 after bedding and a trigger job. not to mention its affordable to me. anyone else suggest one?

I have seen a 375-408 built on a Montana action. Barrel was long 28"-30". The guy was using a McMillan stock and was turning his own bullets. Should make that 1500-2000 yard mark.

My 308 has a 28" #7 Shilen on it. The second bullet will suck the first bullet hole closed.

The 22-250 is a great 1k round with a fast twist barrel. Folks shoot the 80 and 90 gr pills with a 1:7-1:9 barrel.

crazy... i checked brownells again and they have heavy contour shilen blanks for under 200.
about how much would it cost to get one cut to fit a gun?

Guys, no flames intended here but I just laugh at some of the comments on a 30/378. My guess says most have never owned, shot or even seen one at the range. Nothing is ever 100% but I'll bet most comments are based on keyboard experience.

I had one and never noticed any erosion problems etc. But then I wasn't looking for them.

quote:

Originally posted by 30378:
Guys, no flames intended here but I just laugh at some of the comments on a 30/378. My guess says most have never owned, shot or even seen one at the range. Nothing is ever 100% but I'll bet most comments are based on keyboard experience.

You've obviously never torn a retina in one of your eyes from shooting big boomers, and the 30-378 is a heavy recoiling cartridge, capable over time of tearing a retina, as I have done from shooting heavy recoiling rifles and shotguns.
I'll stick with nothing bigger than a straight 300 H&H mag for a long ranger, as far as recoil goes; No more torn retinas for me.
I recommend against heavy recoiling rifles for any shooting, except for a few well spaced shots in Afrika for dangerous game animals. A few shots from the big boomers would hurt, probably. But, for target shooting with lots of shots from big guns is not recommended. I'm a resident expert on torn retina's. Details of the retina repair on request.

Don

DMB

Don't want to hi-jack the original intent of this thread but I encourage you to post on the board about the effects of heavy recoil and retina problems as a Safety Topic for all to see. This would truly benefit everyone.

Don,

I have fired thousands of rounds of hot .375 H&H .30-378 & .460 loads from the bench and my eyeballs are just fine. Some of us are more sensative to recoil than others.

quote:

Originally posted by TheBigGuy:

quote:

Originally posted by Fjold:
It depends on how many shots you are going to fire at a time. In the competitions where you have to shoot from a prone position or if you have short time limits because of changing wind conditions, etc. the big 30's get hard to shoot because of the increased recoil.

The 6mm and 6.5s are a lot easier on the shoulder but the big 30's are probably the best.

Here's the current International Benchrest 1,000 yard record group shot last year in Ohio with a 240 grain SMK out of a big 30.

WOW WOW WOW WOW WOW! One for each bullet hole!

That's truly infreakincredible shooting!

Freaky, eh?

quote:

Originally posted by 30378:
Guys, no flames intended here but I just laugh at some of the comments on a 30/378. My guess says most have never owned, shot or even seen one at the range. Nothing is ever 100% but I'll bet most comments are based on keyboard experience.

My experience is limited to handling two of them, one my brothers Accumark (which he has never fired) and a second one a LEFT HAND model being sold used for $1500-something at my local "toy store".

I have commented in this thread until now But I'll bet that is greater experience than the average...

I will say WOW.... about that group!

AD

The best? Your 6.5 is a good place to start.
Something that shoots a projectile with a high B.C. and keeps that projectile supersonic the whole way out to 1000, under the conditions you will be shooting, and does so with recoil that you can tolerate for those 50-70 round matches.

Bottom line? It's all subjective. What works for one, may not work for another. I currently run a 338 LM. I will probably switch to something like a 6.5/284 or similar to take advantage of the lower recoil and running costs.
JMHO.

It's up to you, best of luck with your choice.

quote:

Originally posted by 30378:
DMB

Don't want to hi-jack the original intent of this thread but I encourage you to post on the board about the effects of heavy recoil and retina problems as a Safety Topic for all to see. This would truly benefit everyone.

Thank you.
My point in my earlier post is that we shooters are all susceptible to tearing a retina. However, none of us knows for sure if we are the one who will actually have a retina tear. There are far too many shooters who have torn a retina to ignore the possibility of having that happen. Bob Brister comes to mind. He was a shotgun shooter and gun writer in Texas who tore a retina in one of his eyes, from shooting.
I don't think it is related to sensitivity at all, but it is related to the attachment of the retina to the back of the eye. Over time, with a lot of shooting of big boomers, if the attachment is degraded from shooting, the retina will tear. The tear occurs just like tearing a paper napkin. If you have a paper napkin spread out flat on a table, and held tight at the edges, pulling upwards at the center of the napkin with your thumb and forefinger will create a triangular tear. That's exactly how the retina tears, in a small triangle. When a tear happens, the fist indication is flashing lights inside the eye, along with blood from the tear clouding vision. The school answer at this point is to see a Retina Specialist, an MD, within 24 hours to have it repaired. Otherwise, if you wait longer than 24 hours, the entire retina can detach, and then you've lost sight in the eye permanently.
The fix for me was to have the Retina Specialist sit me in a dentists chair with the back of my head restrained, and then he shot 300 laser shots into the eye tack welding the tear so it would heal. That 300 laser shots got my attention. You really don't want to experience that. So, I'm on a mission to advise other shooters of the possibility of that happening.

Don

Have personally only used a .308 for long range target shooting (8 &900 metres). Works fine with heavy bullets. Briefly tried an Accuracy International .338 lap. Awesome _ but didn't shoot it enough to really see how much better it was.

however, A PH friend of mine has a client who comes out to Zim once a year for 6 weeks to shoot baboons. This year he used a weatherby rifle in .338/378 as his "light" rifle. His kill rate at ranges out to 1500m is astonashing - especially as there are no flags to help one dope the wind.

I think that this is the real advantage of big, heavy and fast bullets over the .308. If there are no flags and no spotter to help dope wind and Mirage go big!!!

.408 Chey-tac!

Roster of winning benchrest cartridges -

1000 Yard Benchrest Winners

Spend some time looking through the archives and articles on 6mmbr.com. Great site for various target disciplines if your willing to take the time to read through it.

TMc

quote:

Originally posted by Ganyana:
Have personally only used a .308 for long range target shooting (8 &900 metres). Works fine with heavy bullets. Briefly tried an Accuracy International .338 lap. Awesome _ but didn't shoot it enough to really see how much better it was.

however, A PH friend of mine has a client who comes out to Zim once a year for 6 weeks to shoot baboons. This year he used a weatherby rifle in .338/378 as his "light" rifle. His kill rate at ranges out to 1500m is astonashing - especially as there are no flags to help one dope the wind.

I think that this is the real advantage of big, heavy and fast bullets over the .308. If there are no flags and no spotter to help dope wind and Mirage go big!!!

1500 yards on baboons! Now that is a bloke I'd buy a beer for. Bloody hell I'd love to watch that bloke in action

quote:

Originally posted by Kingfisher:
Roster of winning benchrest cartridges -

1000 Yard Benchrest Winners

Thought so; the 300 Ackley is the go

I for one do not like the big boomers either. I had a 300 UM which I was starting to show the early signs of retina tearing according to my doctor. Being left handed, my left eye was beginning to twitch rapidly on its own regardless of the activity.

When I spoke to my doctor about it, she suspected retina troubles and asked what in my life has changed recently. The only change was the new rifle. I sold it, bought a 308 Win, now a 338 Federal, and the twitching went away on its own a short while later.

I do believe we are all built different and can tolerate different amounts of recoil, and I for one did not want to lose my eyesight and give up my favorite pastime to shoot a cannon. If you truly need a cartridge that large, then I suggest being careful, limiting your exposure and watching for early signs of trouble.