The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Choosing a Rifle to Hunt withGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| Choosing a Rifle to Hunt with | Login/Join |
| One of Us |
Sorry I hurt your feelings with the comment. I was so taken aback by the thought that you would shoot 500 pound animals that are broadside at 200 yards with a .223 that it just slipped out. I'll explain but you'll have to let me interject my opinion once more. The thought of shooting a 500 pound game animal broadside at 200 yards with a .223 to me shows a complete lack of ethics, at least the ethics that Aldo Leopold is talking about. Elk are about 500 pounds and so are Oryx. Furthermore, you gave absolutely no rationale for your answer or any explanation to give me an opportunity to understand how you made the choice:
The rationale I was refering to would be the attributes of the chosen caliber and the chosen bullet's ability to kill the animal cleanly, without suffering or tracking it for days while it suffers. Have you ever shot a steel plate at 200 yards with a .223? It barely moves. Shooting 500 pound animals with the .223 at 200 is a complete joke, stunt shooting, and really shows who lacks anything remotely resembling "ethics". ...Now, back to my boring, unbiased, impartial self!  | |||
|
One of Us |
The answer I gave you was that I would use a .223 on under 500 lb animals, Mule Deer, White tails and below by your definition. That you would not just misconstrue, but outright falsify what I told you is an example of that infantile narcissism I was talking about. You're so busy with the I,I,I me, me, me that you can't step back and look at what you're doing to yourself. That you are trying to hide your bad behavior behind false accusations against someone trying to help you is pathetic. Please, if you really want to learn something quit posting and pay attention to what the people on this forum who have been hunting for many decades have got to say. Some of them do know what they're about. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Are you crazy? Here is your post. I have not falsified a damn thing. You give no qualification as to the specie, just weight.
This is outright "falsifying"..:
it's your turn to man up and apologize. | |||
|
| one of us |
[quote]What is the minimum caliber you would hunt each of these animals with? Also, please discuss the factors that determined the choice. Please discuss the limiting factor(s) for each in its use (ie. bullet selection, any quantitative properties of physics such as energy, momentum, etc...) I want to disclaimer mine by saying I am not a ballistician so this is just my answer to MINIMUM, if I had to get into too much data it'd take any fun out of it for me (more power to those of you who do love all that). 1. Prarie Dog - 223, inexpensive, large selection, no recoil 2. Coyote - 243, I want a good fast kill, it's a great caliber 3. Piggy - minimun? 257 roberts. at 200yds, if the pig is larger, considering toughness, I'd like the slightly larger bullet. However, I've only ever shot one so maybe I overestimate the pigs 4. Whitetail, Antelope (150 lbs.) - 243 5. Mule Deer (200-300 lbs) - 270win 6. Elk, Oryx, Large African Plains game (500-1000 lbs) 35 whelen 7. African Dangerous Game, (Buffalo, Rhino, Lion, "ele", etc..) 375. This is of course minimums as requested. I don't really like minimum, I like the idea of heavy slow, so for me, with same conditions, going with what I actually have it would be. I edited to include that it would all be barnes TS bullets for the CA stuff, everything else probably Northforks, and both soft and solid for the dangerous, at whatever recommendation the PH had for me. 1. 22 or borrow 223 2. coyote - 30-06 (smallest thing I own) 3. pig - 375h&h 4. CA deer - 30-06 5. mule deer - 308 norma/35 whelen 6. elk, oryx - 35 whelen/375h&h 7. africa dangerous 416 taylor (by the time I can afford africa my rifle will be done). I would like to say, if I had to give a list like this to my wife it would be a bit different, and I'd cover the different yardages as well. 1. pdog short range 223 2. pdog long range 224 clark 3. coyotes 243 4. mean coyotes 257 5. pronghorn at range and mountain goat 264WM 6. smaller deer 30-06 7. larger deer 35 whelen 8. elk, larger non-dangerous game 338WM 9. trophy elk and ND game 358 norma 10. Leopard 375h&H 11. Lion 416 taylor 12. Buffalo 450 rigby 12. elephants 500 jeffery or 505 gibbs 13. pigs 45/70 14. pigs in rattlesnake country add 45 colt with snake shot 15. I almost forgot bears! grizzly 404 Jeffery 16. polar bears - 416 rigby in synthetic stainless combo  | |||
|
| One of Us |
Would someone who can figure out what rcamuglia is trying to say in his last post please explain it to me? I am at a complete loss. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Without starting another fight or debait. I think cottonstalk has the right idea..30-06. At 1 time I only owned a 308. It served my purpose from ground squirrels to elk. Beware the man with only one rifle,He probably knows how to use it . | |||
|
| One of Us |
Is this your list? Did you assign the weights? What the hell is the matter with you? did you get into your old man's liquor? | |||
|
| One of Us |
Also, don't forget to wear your cross trainers. Aim for the exit hole | |||
|
| One of Us |
I wonder if Alf or Warrior can be consulted to calculate the sectional density of your head?  | |||
|
| One of Us |
Great post DR! Thorough! | |||
|
one of us |
1-5 223 rem. 6 260 rem 7 375 H-H These would be minimums for me. I have shot 6 deer with 223/22-250 rest were with 30cal or larger. one elk with a 375 H-H Moose with 308 win, 338 win mag, 500 S&W. nothing dangerous. -------------------- THANOS WAS RIGHT! | |||
|
| One of Us |
How did you decide on these? Why did you move up in caliber for #6? | |||
|
| one of us |
I decided on these from the critters I have shot or seen shot. I am more than confident in using the 223 for smaller stuff because with the bullets I have used, it easily penetrates well enough. I have a 243 that I bought for my kids to use for deer that I may use myself for a couple deer next year. Although my tendancy would be to use a 7mm-08 or large cause I like bigger holes. To me elk is large enough that I really want something that will penetrate consistantly on them. Who knows how many moose the 6.5 swede has taken so the 6.5 comes to mind as minimum for me. Although I have heard of several moose taken by friends with the 243 and 25-06 and even the 223. Just for me I want a little more bullet for the larger game like elk and moose. For dangerous stuff I would want a 375 for one thing its the minimum caliber anyways. Even though I have never shot a brown bear I have carried the 308 win, 30-06,300 win mag, 338 win mag 458 win mag hunting for them. I bought my 375 H-H that I have now after drawing a brown bear tag for kodiak island but didnt get to go after having back trouble. So I took it out for elk this year but didnt get an elk with it. The one elk I did get with a 375 H-H was in 1997 in Colorado. I shot a moose sheep and a black bear in 1997 also all with a 308 winchester. -------------------- THANOS WAS RIGHT! | |||
|
One of Us |
1 20vartarg with 32gr Vmax good mist no recoil 2 204 ruger 40 gr easy but does some pelt damage 3 piggy? 4 243 95 gr another easy shot 5 7-08 130 gr not hard to bring down 6 300wm 180 gr bullet 7 375H&H as this is min but I would use a 416 Paul Gulbas | |||
|
| One of Us |
I may owe you another apology miles! I assumed from your statement of "for everything under 500 pounds, the .223" was literal. Meaning you would even shoot 499 pound animals with it. I realize now that you meant the animals in #5 and below. Correct? Still your statement of ".30-06 for everything else" has me scratching my head because this includes "everything else" (Dangerous African Game, Hippo, Rhino, Cape Buff, and Elephant) Please tell me it was a simple misunderstanding! | |||
|
One of Us |
This is an interesting category.....It's true the .30-06 with the right bullet construction is capable.....but this category of animal comes with something most other hunts don't come with.....a (hopefully) trained PH who is carrying a back up rifle with a bore the size of your arm!!! Further He's going to protect you as his first responsibility.....and since you pay the trophy fee if you draw blood and the animal gets away....he'll put it down for you. People actually hunt these things with bow and arrow!!!!....remember the PH back up.....Yes....the hunter may have told him to not shoot unless absolutely necessary but it don't change anything....the PH is responsible for your welfare....and he's not going to allow you to be turned into a jar of raspberry jelly! I think for this reason the dangerous game category is extremely unique and needs to be understood in this context. FWIW.....you wouldn't find me hunting the big stuff with anything less than a .375 H&H /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
|
| One of Us |
Well, that's cuz you're smart! Oops! My opinion slipped out again! | |||
|
| one of us |
Yes, some only want "opinions" which agree with them, or they start  | |||
|
| One of Us |
I have killed white tails over 300 pounds. In Minnesota where I live, they can be over 400. I would have no problem killing one with a 70 grain TSX coming out at 3000 FPS given perfect conditions as stipulated. You've had a number of people tell you that a 30-06 and considerably less has been used for DG successfully by market hunters (who can use anything they want) in the past without the benefit of the bullets available today. This has nothing to do with a simple misunderstanding and everything to do with leaping to conclusions from what at best is a very poorly informed starting place. | |||
|
| One of Us |
I lived near Rochester until about 1999 and hunted deer in Minnesota from 1962 until that time. In that time I never shot such a deer....we took very large deer to the grain elevator to weigh them and it took a very large deer to weigh 200 pounds field dressed! My brother once shot a monster near Grand Marais and it tipped the scales at 202 pounds...very massive horns. I'd dearly love to see a photo of 300 and 400 pound deer....and from Minnesota.... /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
|
| One of Us |
So miles, I didn't misunderstand. You would feel comfortable shooting game weighing up to 500#'s with the 70 gr TSX, big game including African plains game up to around 2000#'s (bison) at 200 yards, and DG (at customary yardages) that go up to 13,000 pounds (rhino 3,000 to 8,000 #, elephant up to 13,000#'s) with the .30-'06 Springfield Please give some details on why you would choose these. | |||
|
| One of Us |
| |||
|
One of Us |
I have a friend in Morgan City, La that has taken 3 Elephants with a handgun. Otto Candice out of New Orleans has taken quite a few Elephants with a revolver and I have seen video of Elephants being cropped dropping to every shot from a 30-06. So why wouldn't it work for Miles???  _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
|
| One of Us |
The absolute epitome of the definition of "STUNT SHOOTING" Get a grip!  | |||
|
| One of Us |
I would suggest that you need to get a grip. Bell didn't shoot just one or two to prove it could be done. He made a living doing it. Is it an ideal gun for the job? Not for me maybe, but it unarguably worked pretty damn well for him. Will it work? With Bell even as the sole example it would take someone bent on denying fact to argue it can't be done. I would hate to have to haul off all the white tail and mule deer killed with .223s. Arguing that is impractical or unreasonable is just plain silly and juvenile. It works and for those with the equipment and skill to use it well, it works very well. I have seen more deer wounded/badly shot with 30-06s and 180 grain bullets than anything else to the best of my knowledge. I think trying to argue that gun and load is inadequate would be just as infantile as arguing a .223 is inadequate. Don't talk about it. Go kill something and find out what your skill and discipline are capable of. Learn to put together ammunition to do what needs to be done and do it. Then come back and tell people how to do it. I have been loading my own ammunition for more than half a century. I have been killing animals with what I have put together for the whole time and I think I have a pretty fair idea of what it will do. I have been through bad bullets and good. I have killed under ideal circumstance and poor. Under ideal circumstance it is easy to kill well. If jwp's Otto Candice can do it and survive it isn't a stunt, its a done deal. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Well miles? | |||
|
| One of Us |
Stunt my ass you need to get a grip, because you sure as hell don;t have a lock on what works and don;t work nor what is enough and what is not It's been done too many times to simply be a stunt Get a grip man  _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
|
| One of Us |
Otto's killed about 200 Elephants, How many have you killed rick? Oh yea that's right NONE Yep you know all about it right Man asks a question only to ignore and ridicule the answers  _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
|
| One of Us |
| |||
|
| One of Us |
Your post is simply an "in your face" comment. It never addresses the question nor attempts to answer it. So you you would choose a revolver to hunt elephants or the '06? Please answer as to how you arrived at your decision. It's the thread's question. | |||
|
| One of Us |
You sure you want to talk abour in your face shit with the above post Kiss my ass Otto shot a Bull Elephant with a frontal brain shit with a 475 Linebaugh nad the bullet went through the head and into the neck, over 40" of penetration Obviouly enough. Many Elepahants have been taken with the 30-06 shooting 220 grain solids. do you think they'd cease to work now. My god man get a grip. Penertation is the key and with todays solids that is an easier accomplishment than in yesteryear. Elenor O'Conner also used the 30-06 on Tiger and Elelphant. I mean can't you at least accomplish the same as a woman _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
|
| One of Us |
Also jwp, If a revolver is your choice for elephant, please specify caliber and why and try to answer the rest of the caliber/game matching questions instead of being the thread's Troll 
| |||
|
| One of Us |
A common problem with you and those you defend. | |||
|
| One of Us |
The common problem is the fact that you haven't a clue about what the hell you are talking aboutt. Apparently you do not realize the amount of solid bone and honey comb bone in an Elepahbat head that must be pentrated. If the bullet is capable of penetrating such then it will most certainly give adequate penetrtion on a body shot. I am not defending anyone, I am simply posting the facts of what has been done. You are also most likely that an Elephants heart according to Ganyana rips apart when a bullet passes through it. Because of this more damage is done to an Elephants heart by a small caliber projectile thna a Cape Buffalos Your common problem is you take your limited expereince and knowledge and then attempt to make fun of any one that knows you are full of shit Yep you started this thread to fuck with anyone that has a differing experience or opinion than you _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
|
| One of Us |
john, I hope you never kissed your Mother with that mouth! Wow. All posted by john:
All of the above are an indication of your character. No, I have never shot an elephant. It seems you haven't either...
The thread isn't about arguing about is best for elephants or who has used the barest of minimums for them. What to use for elephant is a small part of the question. Here is the original posted question...
Very few answers have discussed the factors that determined their choice. Most have just stated "because it works". That's fine but the question begs the answer "why does it work in your opinion". Is it bullet choice, sheer energy, neither because where the hit is is most important? etc... I've asked this many times during the thread
| |||
|
| One of Us |
RCAMUGLIE, You started another I,I,I, me,me,me thread without a clue as to what you are about and without even a decent pretense of learning something for yourself. You accuse JWP of being a troll when in point of fact that is entirely what your purpose was in starting the thread. I said it before your are an infantile narcissist. When you grow up you might actually learn something if you first learn to shut your mouth and listen to your betters. You bad mouthed me when in point of fact you were so busy looking to run your mouth you didn't pay attention to what you were told and you were completely out of line. You do not have the grace that god gave rabbit turds to apologize and STFU. One more dipshit on ignore | |||
|
| One of Us |
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
|
| One of Us |
| |||
|
| One of Us |
No you start a thread about minimums and then attack anyone that posts info counter to what you ant to see posted. You simply look to ridicule. I asked you inKnowing what I know now I don't believe that were or are seriously looking for any answers for what is and or has worked for others. If the response do not fit in with your preconceived notions or in with your limited experience then you blast that poster. You have totally wiped out any respect that I might have or would ever have for you _____________________________________________________ A 9mm may expand to a larger diameter, but a 45 ain't going to shrink Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened. - Winston Churchill | |||
|
| One of Us |
Here you go. If you want more/other picture go do a search. http://www.wday.com/event/imag...a%2017-point%20buck/ | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata | Page 1 2 3 4 5 |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Choosing a Rifle to Hunt with
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia