Anyone have some experience with the lighter end of the 308 spectrum in a 30-06? I mean, if you ask "why the 30-06" one of the most consistent answers is "because you can load 110-250gr bullets!"

So...saying that, anyone ever shot/hunted with the lightweights? Maybe the 130gr Barnes?

The biggest problem with light-for-caliber bullets is that you lose a bc advantage. I think that the 130 premiums would be more than satisfactory for deer/antelope/varmints at normal ranges. You will lose out at long range, however, as that is where the long bullets shine. I personally would not use a light, non-premium 30 caliber on big game.

I know the whole BC thing, and it makes sense. I'm just curious...because everyones answer to why choose a 30-06...is the ability to go from 100-250gr....but does anyone actually do that?

The 130 gr. GS Customs HP are death and destruction on deer size game for whatever thats worth..I have tried all the bullets weights over the last 60 plus years in the 06, and finally settled on the 150 gr. GS Customs at 2950 FPS, or the 180 or 200 gr. Noslers and Woodleighs at 2700 FPS, but I don't hunt varmints with my 06, I have varmint rifles.

+1 for the 130 gr monometals. I've used GS Custom and Barnes TSX with no problems whatsoever. 308 Win through 300 Win Mag. For that matter, the only bullet I loaD IN MY 300 WM Colt Light Rifle these days. I'd be very comfortable with them in a 30-06 through Elk, if that was all I had. The new CEB Raptor bullets may bump them off their pedastal, though.

Not because of a deficiency in the former but because the radial dispersion of the petals in flesh seems to be a little extra insurance in the event of a slightly misplaced shot.

I guess it depends what range you feel comfortable hunting.
The 130 grain CEB ESP Raptor should be good out to 400 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by boom stick:
I guess it depends what range you feel comfortable hunting.
The 130 grain CEB ESP Raptor should be good out to 400 yards.

Beat me to the punch; I was editing. lol.

I've used jacketed 90 - 130 gr bullets on varmints (coyotes, rockchucks and jackrabbits) out of the '06 at velocities over 3000 fps. They are too destructive on deer or any other edible game. Actually I think the 150s are too destructive on deer.

Larry Gibson

I used some older Remington 125gr. bullets on a couple of Mule deer bucks at moderate distances and they worked like the Hammer of Thor!!!I'm guessing that the velocity was around 3100 fps. I originaly bought them to shoot out of a couple of bolt action 30-30's. They worked well here to, at about 2600 fps. I still have a few hundred of the 1000 I purchased a long time ago. I think I'll load some more just for fun.. They do seem to cut way down on the recoil..

Shooter,

I noticed the recoil effect myself when I tried out the 130gr Barnes in the 300 Wby. Man that thing was a kitten with those light bullets lol. Only downfall is the barrels too hot to touch for about 2 minutes between shots LOL

Testing many 100 to 125 grain bullets along with a number of fast burning powders,has yielded some pleasant bench time and seriously good performance. Velocities with these bullets ranged from 1600 fps., to 3300 fps.When using the faster powders safe loading techniques (extra caution) MUST be adhered to.
roger

The first of only two deer I ever completely lost in 60 plus years of hunting deer was a California blacktail shot on a little flat above a cliff on Kickham Peak in Santa Clara County, using an '06 loaded with 110 grain bullets at about 10 or 15 yards range. That little flat was covered with willows and buckbrush so densely that one had to force their body through the little 4 to 5-foot high trees to get across it.

I'm sure the deer probably died, but it was wasted because I could never find it. It certainly didn't drop DRT.

The year was about 1958, as I didn't yet have a chronograph, which I did have by 1959. So, I have no idea how fast that bullet was going when it left the muzzle of my Springfield, but it was loaded "HOT"!

I was and still am thoroughly ashamed of myself for using that round on a deer. (I was crossing the flat while hunting coyotes, when I sighted the deer, and as I was a young guy back then with a deer tag in his pocket, well.....)

Anyway, I have never used a conventional '06 bullet lighter than a 150 grain one on deer since then, and never will again. I want to make sure it penetrates to the boiler room, rather than potentially making a horrible surface wound and having some harmless animal needlessly die in agony again.

With modern bullets I might use a 130 grain monometal, but probably not. No need to pay that price when I now live in an area where monometal is not yet required, and a plain old 150 grain cup-'n-core will work just fine.

quote:

Originally posted by MileHighShooter:
I'm just curious...because everyones answer to why choose a 30-06...is the ability to go from 100-250gr....but does anyone actually do that?

I think most people nowadays use 150, 165 and 180 gn bullets from the 06. Nearly any .30 cal can double as a varmint rifle, but not all of them will handle the larger 180-220 gn slugs as well as the 06. (meaning the 308 and such.)

I personaly used to use mine with 150's for deer and 180's for Elk, but I use other rifles for deer anymore.

The best reason for getting an 06 IMO is that it just works for nearly anyting you could ask it to do. And ammo for it is everywhere. It's an excelent choice for the one rifle shooter.

I've used the 125 Grain BTs on whitetails (out of a .308)....it works nicely....but don't use the .30 caL much any more....seems smaller calibers have taken over in my hunting.

I never saw a reason to go lighter than 150 grains in the .30-06. I do shoot 125 and 130 grain spitzer bullets in my Rem M788 .30-30 rifle to some degree of success. If I need to shoot lighter bullets I have plenty of rifles that will do it better than the .30-06.

When I was in college my '06 was the only rifle I had for a few years. I loaded 110 hollow points, spitzers, and even round noses for use on small game and for plinking. The short little round noses were hell on rabbits. These I loaded to between 1500 and 2000 fps. I liked the 110 gn spitzers for coyotes as they flew a little flatter. I'm sure 150 grain bullets would have worked as well but who needs the extra recoil. The hollow points were great for anything you didn't care to eat.

I still load the little round noses in my .30-30's for the kids.

But these days, the '06 is used primarily with 150 gn and heavier projectiles. For lighter weights, I simply use a smaller bore rifle instead.

What some folks view as DRT or instant kills that are common with light fragile bullets that do a lot of internal destruction and give impressive kills that impress the less initiated..

The problem is it does not always work that way and they don't for what ever reason die immediately and they fill with adrenaline and they can go many miles and find a place to hide and you got no blood trail, that is the oldest story in the world with fragile bullets, it's no longer a pretty story.

The rest of the story is a good 150 or 180 gr. properly construced bullet in say a 30-06 will give you two holes and a good blood trail and the game normally runs from 10 to perhaps 200 yards and I have seen more, but you find them when the run out of blood and they will be dead..

The tougher the bullet the less ruined meat, thus my choice of the 180 or 200 Nosler in the 30-06, It kills very well, leaves a good blood trail and they don't normally make a lot of tracks and sometimes the die on the spot..

I'm not a fan of light for caliber bullets. I do believe you can go one bullet down in weigt with a monolithic but thats about it..The 130 GS customs is the equivelent of a 150 gr. Nosler for instance and the 150 GS customs is about the equivelent of a 180 Nosler..This practice works well on deer size animals, not quit as well on elk and as the animals get larger it no longer seems to work at all. Big animals like buffalo or hippo do not react much to shock, they are numb, blood loss seems to kill them and the bigger hole you put in them and the more blood you let out of them the quicker they die, simply put without going into loss of oxygen to the brain etc which is definately a factor but its boils down to loss of blood and the other is causation from that loss,

Sincere question for the Gurus. Why pray tell would a 87 grain 25 caliber bullet at 2650 fps. be a better deer killer than a 110 grain 30cal. bullet traveling at the same velocity? Bullet constructions assumed to be adequate for that velocity.Long winded tolerated but not truly desired. roger

quote:

I noticed the recoil effect myself when I tried out the 130gr Barnes in the 300 Wby.

Mile-High,

As noted above I've had some success with the Barnes 130 gr. TSX's in .308 Win. & .30/06 Sprg. (and the 300 Weatherby - Wow!) I used the Barnes 130 grainers in all three cartridges on Red Deer Stags, Hinds & Calves for part of a season and the perfomance was specatcular to say the least.

The Barnes monometal (haven't tried any of the others) in this weight tends to shoot well because it's size is comparable to other 150 & 165 C&C bullets so the bearing surface is similar. They also hold together well at the velocities involved and while pentration is fine for X-Ring Deer behind the shoulder (in/out thru the ribs) shots any angles involved other than broadside noted siginificantly less penetration that with 150 & 165 gr. C&C bullets.

I'm back to my standard bullet weights in these cartridges.

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Sincere question for the Gurus. Why pray tell would a 87 grain 25 caliber bullet at 2650 fps. be a better deer killer than a 110 grain 30cal. bullet traveling at the same velocity? Bullet constructions assumed to be adequate for that velocity.Long winded tolerated but not truly desired. roger

X2

I believe thde 87 gr 25 cal bullet is built as a heavey varmint to light game bullet. Designed to kill coyotes, up to deer.
The 30 cal 110 gr is strickly a light varmint bullet, designed to blow up a woodchuck.
Leo

I've always shot 180's out of my .30-06...but I am thinking about making the switch to the 150 or 165 as I primarily use that rifle for Texas Whitetails or wild hogs.

The comparison should be between a 110 grain 25 caliber to a 110 grain 30 caliber to illustrate the performance advantage of the 25 caliber over the 30. Assuming similar construction the longer bullet will hold together better allowing for deeper penetration. The short 30 caliber 110 lacks sectional density which directly relates poor bullet performance. In this case the difference in performance is mute because their both inferior assuming typical lead core construction.

Compare the OAL length of a conventional 150 grain lead core bullet to that of a Barnes X type. In this case you gain the BC of a larger bullet along with improved terminal performance due to the construction. If anyone is concidering dropping down in bullet weight to flatten trajectory this bullet type offers the best option IMO.

quote:

Originally posted by taylorce1:
I never saw a reason to go lighter than 150 grains in the .30-06. I do shoot 125 and 130 grain spitzer bullets in my Rem M788 .30-30 rifle to some degree of success.

I've shot a couple of deer with a .30-30 carbine and the 130 TSX. Seemed to work pretty good at that velocity.

Unless I was looking for reduced speed and recoil, I wouldn't drop below 150 grs.

From the two rifles I have in this caliber, neither the 125 grain Ballistic Tip nor the 130 Bartes TSX shoot as precise as the 150 and especially the 180 grain bullets.

I do shoot a lot of 130 grain Spitzers at the running boar at 50 meters at reduced pressure.

quote:

Why pray tell would a 87 grain 25 caliber bullet at 2650 fps. be a better deer killer than a 110 grain 30cal. bullet traveling at the same velocity?

Who said that?

Good discussion. I hope I can find this thread the next time the 30-06 discussion comes up and people jump all over the "you can load 110-250 thats why!" lol.

BTW, my choice on the TTSX 130 in 300 Wby was because it was the rifle I had available at the time, and I wanted to try it out! Didn't get to see its effect on game, but they shot very well. I'm not loading at the moment, but when I used to, the only groups I had better then the factory TTSX was my 165 FailSafe's.

quote:

"You can load 110-250g. Thats why!"

What would be the magical twist rate to accomplish that?

quote:

Originally posted by Gerard:

quote:

Why pray tell would a 87 grain 25 caliber bullet at 2650 fps. be a better deer killer than a 110 grain 30cal. bullet traveling at the same velocity?

Who said that?

I did. roger

Why would you shoot a 110gr bullet from a 30-06 at 2650fps? Which cartridge runs an 87gr 25 cal bullet at 2650fps?

quote:

Originally posted by 1 Shot Hunter:

quote:

"You can load 110-250g. Thats why!"

What would be the magical twist rate to accomplish that?

I have actually brought that point up myself. I like to rile up the '06 cheer leaders with that one lol

quote:

Originally posted by Gerard:
Why would you shoot a 110gr bullet from a 30-06 at 2650fps? Which cartridge runs an 87gr 25 cal bullet at 2650fps?

25-35! check it out. Or ask Ray! roger

quote:

Why would you shoot a 110gr bullet from a 30-06 at 2650fps?

And then compare it to a 25-35?

quote:

Originally posted by Gerard:

quote:

Why would you shoot a 110gr bullet from a 30-06 at 2650fps?

And then compare it to a 25-35?

I'm so confused. roger

I have never tried to load my 30-06 with any light bullets but used to shoot the Remington Accelerators back when they were available. They produced 1 1/2" groups regularly and were deadly on Woodchucks in Pennsylvania/Ohio. It's a shame they are not produced any more. I'm sure we are all safer for it. Just think how many 30-06's with Accelerators would be used in crimes today were they available.