The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Anyone else hate a M70 safety?????Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Using a M70 with its 3 position safety is the most fun you can have with your clothes ON! IMO,There are only 2 kinds of rifle owners: 1. Those that own a M70 with a 3-pos safety. 2. Those that wish they did. LOL...you guys take this safety stuff way too seriously! | |||
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All of them work and it just comes down to personal preference. We all have different likes and dislikes and that keeps a lot of companies in business to make us all happy. | |||
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I dislike the 3 position safety of the model 70. It is the main reason my 70's sit in the safe. My favorite is the tang safety on the original ruger 77. The main reason I hunt with one 9 of 10 days and have 4 different chamberings in my safe. And yes, I would use the .458 for DG. It has never misfed from the day I got it in 1981. | |||
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None. BUT, I see their advertisements pretty frequently and perhaps some of our learned forumite gunsmiths can chime in. If you really want an eye opener,"google"the 700 safety and litigation. Further, there is a very lucrative after market business for Remington "iprovements" like triggers safeties & extractors. The Model 70 safety is pretty much the standard by which all others are measured. jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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M70 safeties are slow, noisy, and dangerous. ------------------------------- Will / Once you've been amongst them, there is no such thing as too much gun. --------------------------------------- and, God Bless John Wayne. NRA Benefactor, GOA, NAGR _________________________ "Elephant and Elephant Guns" $99 shipped. “Hunting Africa's Dangerous Game" $20 shipped. red.dirt.elephant@gmail.com _________________________ If anything be of note, let it be he was once an elephant hunter, hoping to wind up where elephant hunters go. | |||
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I luv-em. Lets face it,there is not many things(If any) we could pick-on about the CRF Model 70. The 3 position safety IMO just makes sense(Very very simple design) It's stood the test of time,& has risen to the top like cream.So if I ever need to go bush for years at a time(mmmmm now that's a thought,how do I tell the wife.he he he  ),the Model 70 CRF would be first in line.Why because it's just about BULLETPROOF,that is going to give years of trouble free reliable service.So yes I dig the 3 position safety,as well as many other things the CRF Model 70 offers. Just mt 2cents, 340. | |||
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The litigation is old news and for pre 1982 safeties. Come on up to modern times. If the M70 had been loved enough they would not have closed. I don't knock them because they are a good product but I prefer the Rem and there appears to be enough loyal customers to keep them in business. I agree with you sometimes but seriously disagree when you get on the bashing rant because you own something different. | |||
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You just can't win for losing can you? If you are target shooting, who cares where the safety is. If you are hunting from a stand, who cares where the safety is (unless it is a NOISY triggerguard safety). If you are stillhunting and you carry an M70 by your side with the muzzle down and finger in the triggerguard, then your thumb is naturally right on the safety. Then you can flip the safety off with ease when you draw the rifle on the animal. Even if you have to operate the safety while the rifle is drawn, your thumb is right there. How does it get more ergonomic than that? A tang safety is very nice and I bought an A-Bolt once just for that reason. Most of the people on this forum appear to be very discriminating hunters and shooters (which is good) but as long as a safety works there are IMO too many other things we should be complaining about in rifle world. | |||
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The only safety type I really don't like is the beuhler wing type safety. The Rugers don't seem quite right to me, but I could get by. Since I don't like Ruger rifles it isn't an issue. I can live with factory Remingtons, CZ's, Winchesters and Kimbers. | |||
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I believe that people that use shotguns in the field a lot, will like similar safeties. I use double barrel break action shotguns, and hence like the sako style thumb slide safeties. perhaps the model 70 is natural to those that use it a lot, but its as goofy as the push through safety on a remington 1100 or beretta semi auto, if you need to look at which side is red, then its too much work. IMHO the worst type of safety is the old greener side safety. so safe it saved a lot of animals I am sure. | |||
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Slow, Noisy, Dangerous? That has to be the most incorrect statement I have seen posted on this site! | |||
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Too me the best American made rifle in regards to safety is the Mark V. The old Ruger tang safety is second. But on the Ruger you have to consiously keep your thumb away from it when firing magnums. Or you thumb will hurt. The best safety in the world is that on the Steyr-Mannlicher with it's tang rolling safety. You have to push down and roll back. Sauer's I beleive is similar. All Blaser and Kreighoff rifles have the best system in the world. But it's not a safety it's a de-cocker. The mauser 03 is similar. I often day dream of a new 416 Remington using the M70, then I remember the damn safety and run cold. I'll probably end up building a 9.3x64 and 375 Ruger on a tang safety M77. With thumbhole stocks just to piss everyone off. Want to start another arguement, let's bring up thumbhole stocks. I love them, though I agree they aren't pretty. | |||
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I find the older and more fixed in my ways I get, the tang safety is my favorite. I'm looking for a Ruger Mark I in 7mm Mag right now. The Valmet 412S is my current squeeze. But my true alltime favorite rifle for all hunting I do is my 99 Savage (tang safety, sacriligious I know) Brush gun in 358 Winchester. 99 collectors seem to value the older lever safety guns but this tang safety is also a hunters' gun, as all the 99 series guns were. To me the Rifleman's Rifle. I generally don't like the wing safety on ANY rifle, two or three position! Packy | |||
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I don't think it's a safe practice to carry any firearm with your finger in the triggerguard unless you are shooting at that moment. Is that what you meant or was that a mistype? GVA | |||
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With the muzzle pointed straight toward the ground and safety on, I don't think it is unsafe. I usually rest my finger on the outer edge of the triggerguard though, but will put my finger inside if I know I am approaching a bedded down deer. I also check the function of my safeties before each hunt on any given day. | |||
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Jnemmers, Just be careful! | |||
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The safety issues continue. So much so Remington is now announcing a new safety. The safety doesn't even lock the bolt when and the bolt handle is glued on. The extractor continues to be a weak design, succeptible to breakage if dust/debris is allowed to accumulate behind it. The fact Winchester had poor business practices is irrelevant to the issue at hand. After market parts for Remingtons is quite a lucrative market for all the three items mentioned above, triggers, extractors and safeties. It's really not a rant. I owned Remingtons once but my experiences soured me on them. But back to the issue at hand, the Winchester safety is heads and shoulders above the 700s. We'll jsut have to agree to disagree. jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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As you have seen above M700 safeties aren't something I really like either. They flat out suck. Not because they are trigger safeties but because they are hard to work when it's super cold and really small. The best safety is a de-cocker. | |||
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Jorge, don't even get me started on thos damn Remington bolt handles. The custom remington clones HS precision Ed Brown and such all use bolts that are welded or machined solid with the receiver. Even the Howa is cast. My favorite American made push feed action is a Mark V. | |||
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They stopped making the bolt lock some time ago and nothing new. The new trigger has new features but the unlocked bolt is not a new one. I personally don't want my bolts locked and modified the swing arm to not lock my older one. Why does that bother you not to have the bolt locked? I don't dislike the old M70 that I had but I have never had any kind of a problem with the Rems that I have had since 1971. I guess you just had the unlucky lemon. I just don't understand the mental attitude of people going around bashing others products. I had a discussion a long time ago with questions about the XCR and you came in there spreading hate and discontent for Rems. It appears you have a bad chip on your shoulder and can't grow out of it. | |||
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I have no chip on my shoulder, none at all. I've just pointed out the facts regarding Remingtons. didn't make anything up. Since this a a forum, a FORUM, where people discuss their opinions, I'm meerely giving mine based on my experiences. The bolt lock is a very important feature when you are walking in the woods or bush. If you snag it on a branch, the bolt opens and you eject a cartridge. Every other bolt out there that I can think of has that feature. Personally I think the bolt not locking is a bad design flaw. The new trigger is a direct result of litigation. I was merely responding to the initial post. It's lemon(s) btw. Look, if you like Remingtons, that's your business, it doesn't alter the fact of the aforementioned Remington flaws. Regardless, you're just not going to convince me nor I you. jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Dwight, I don't know you but I have known Jorge on here for years. The guy is fair, and unless one is speaking ill of my beloved brother service Uncle Sam's Misguided Children he's the softest speaking person on this website. I am an Navy asshole, but not Jorge. | |||
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I am a firm believer in the 24hourcampfire reference to 700 actions as SUCKS, because they do ________ suck, as do their I hope it works/safety. When knowledgable/well respected gun afficionados intelligently discuss which is the best (hunting) bolt action, the discussion boils down to Mauser vs Pre 64/CRF Mod 70s, and the rest aren't discussed, certainly not the SUCKS 700. Usually, the trigger and safety of the Mod 70 are actually praised as a strong point by the Mauser crowd. If I may quote Jorge:
I take offense to that, you may be a Navy asshole, but I am more of an asshole than you..... There are two types of people in the world: those that get things done and those who make excuses. There are no others. | |||
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In 44 yrs of hunting I have not been clumsy enough to hang a bolt on a limb and it would have to be rather sturdy one to exert the 10 lbs of force it takes to open my bolts. One would have to intentionally do it to make it open. I did witness one of those trick triggers for the first time 2 weeks ago on an older Rem but my Rems have performed perfectly. My oldest is a 1971 with a perfect 16oz break every time and I can't make it trick and fire by pulling the trigger in the safe position and then putting it in the fire position. Our big dfference is that you like to trash other peoples equipment and I don't. As I stated above you did the same routine in one my discussions some time ago. You certainly don't have to defend the Mod 70 around me either. I think they are good rifles but I prefer what I have. YOu don't live far away. Come on down sometime and shoot a few rounds and if you come down on the first Sunday of the month you can get your shooting supplies wholesale. | |||
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Remingotn Safety CBS NEWS Thought this fit here. -Everybody has a dream hunt, mine just happens to be for a Moose.- -The 30-06 is like a perfect steak next to a campfire, a .300 Win Mag is the same but with mushrooms and a baked potato- | |||
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"At last count we had over 1,500 customer complaints of similar malfunctions." Attorney Rich Miller Mmmmmmmm and I wondered why I don't own Remington's  .This sort of accident saddens me deeply. | |||
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Thanks for the kind invite. I'll take you up on it soon. How far down are you? jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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PM on the way. | |||
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"reports CBS News Correspondent Jim Stewart." Ah yes, fair and balanced Jim Stewart.  JMHO, but he's one of the most biased anti-gun sons of bitches at CBS. I've never heard him say one good word about guns.I'm not to favorable towards Reminston SUCKs myself. They just don't feel all that good to me, and to me, It is the"feel" of the rifle thats right in line of importance along with consistant accuracy. A while back there was a thread on old gunwriters and one that came up was Bob Milek. He really liked the Remington 700s but IIRC, he nenver carried one with a round in the chamber. I wonder why? Paul B. | |||
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It's because Bob Milek was a safe rifleman. It's not because of a "flaw" in his choice of rifle, which in many cases was a REM 700. | |||
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All I can say is I've heard more than once that 3-position safeties have caused more holes to be shot in deer camp roofs than anything else. | |||
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 Wouldn't supprise me. Once some people get the "idea" that the middle position is "safe" to unload with, caution may go out the window. | |||
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Not getting into my safety is better than yours, this is an example of recklessly handling a firearm. IIRC she didn't knowingly point the muzzle at her son but I believe she aimed it at a horse trailer when she took the safety off. It would have been unsafe to fire a round into the horse trailer but she relied on the mechanical safety. If the rifle were handled safely, the mechanical safety would still have failed but the only loss would have been one bullet safely discharged from the muzzle. DON'T RELY ON A MECHANICAL SAFETY! Something else to be aware of. I was going over USMC casualty reports a couple of years ago when I came across one of a Marine who died on a guided elk hunting trip. He had an M700 that had a chambered round w/ the safety engaged. The rifle was slung over one shoulder w/ the muzzle pointed straight up. He was negotiating obsticles jumping from one boulder to the next when the sling swivel in the forend pulled loose and the rifle dtopped straight down. The rifle butt struck the hard ground causing the sear to trip. The rifle discharged shooting the Marine in the head. At the time, I was doing the exact same thing on a regular basis w/ an M7. I never thought about it until then. I no longer carry a rifle in the same manner and do not rely upon the sling swivel to secure my weapon. BE SAFE! GVA | |||
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Here we go again, this has turned into a Remington debate. There are too many other good 2 position safeties on the market. When I hear stories of accidental discharges I think alot of these accidents happen because someone has been adjusting the trigger that had no business touching it. It's a fact that many inexperienced M700 owners attempt to adjust their own triggers when they have absolutely no business touching them period! Anyone who understands the internal components of a M700 trigger assembly realizes the function of each part and how to safely adjust the setting of the trigger without creating a dangerous situation. Every time I adjust a M700 trigger I do a 15-15-15 step process to ensure it's safe. That consist of slaming the bolt closed 15 times while in the fire position, moving to safe pulling the trigger hard and releasing the trigger and moving the lever to the fire position then repeat 15 times, and drop the rifle onto the recoil pad about 6" onto a concrete or tile floor while the safety is in the fire position. If folks would do this simple saftey check after they adjust the 700 trigger there would be a whole lot less accidental fires. I can't tell you how many times I've heard guys talking about adjusting their 700 triggers that didn't have any business whatsoever even attempting it! Safety first starts inbetween ones ears, until you correct that problem their will always be accidents regardless which type of saftey you have. Reloader | |||
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In virtually all the litigation against Remington safeties, few, if any were as a result of amateur tinkering with the safety. You are obviously qualified to perform the adjustments and maintenance while most of us are not. Still, there is no getting aroung the fact it is a poorly designed and "unsafe" safety, prone to failure as a result of circumstances of poor design, while the 70 is copied by many. Personally, I prefer the old Browning Safari safety right next to one's thumb on the right hand side of the bolt. You are also correct that safety is between the ears. jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Not to lecture you, Rich, but the argument for the third position is that the safety is still blocking the fiering pin when you lift the bolthandle to empty the chamber. If it is a two-position safety that blocks the bolt, it will have to be set in the off-position. If the trigger is gunked up and stuck in the rear position, the rifle will fire when this is done. If it is a two position that do not look the bolthandle, it is safe enoug - but it does not block the bolthandle. I prefer to maintain my guns and a two-position that blocks the bolt. Bent Fossdal Reiso 5685 Uggdal Norway | |||
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Interesting. I had no idea you had done a Case-by-Case Study concerning the Remington Trigger Assembly. How about sharing the details of your analysis with us? What is the "exact problem" with the design? | |||
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You're right, a lot of triggers are fooled with on many brands but the Rem has more reported AD's than all of them. As a gunsmith I hear these 700 (family) stories all the time & strongly recommend trigger replacemnt on them. If it's not too late, I suggest another rifle or action  The Safari type safety is indeed, a very safe (as safeties go) and conveniently located safety like the old 98 low scope after mkt ones (Buehler etc). My favorite is still the 77 tang safety. About the only drawback is on very heavy recoil rifles (458's 375's etc) it can hit the web of the thumb with that ridge. I mill it off & silver solder a little extra metal on top and round & polish it before checkering it @ 36 lpi. That cures it."You can lead a horticulture, ... but you can't make 'er think" Florida Gardener | |||
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http://www.consumerfed.org/pdfs/Firearms.pdfhttp://www....m/view.cfm/Topic=523 http://cyber.law.harvard.edu/digitaldiscovery/library/spoliation/lewy.html http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/02/07/eveningnews/main270170.shtml Just do a google search LOTs of data. The most recent and unpopular one was the accidental discharge that went through a barn and killed a young kid. The "poorly designed" should be intuitively obvious given the myriad of "hits" when a google search is performed, when it fails, it fails on "fire" instead of "fail safe." The post above this one gives you another example. jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Anyone else hate a M70 safety?????
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