The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Anyone else hate a M70 safety?????Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I was just reading the M70 safety thread about all the lovers of the 3 position model 70 safety so, I thought I start one on the other (Better  ) safeties....I personally despise the M70 safety. It's positioning on the rifle just bothers the heck out of me and I just hate the feel af the dang things. Actually the safety on a M70 is the sole reason I don't own one. I've shot plenty of them and I've done custom loading for quite a few and I still just despise the safety. Not to mention how loud the darn thing is as well(Those of you that hunt spooky critters in close will understand what I mean by that). IMO the "Safety" of the M70 3 pos is a non-issue, There are too many other safeties on the market that offer very safe safeties. I personally prefer a two position for simple reasons. One, I don't like the bolt to be locked and two, I prefer the simpler operation and the silence of operation. A 2 pos like on a 700, Vanguard, MKV, Tikka, or CZ is quite nice and much more user friendly than the hidious M70 design IMO. Nothing wrong with a tang safety either, my second favorite. Abolt, Older M77, Savage, and a few others come to mind. Quite user friendly and easy to operate. A 3 pos that I totally despise is the Ruger 3 pos on the 77s. I hunted with a 77 a few times this year and that was the most hidious un-user friendly safety you could put on a rifle IMO. I just kept it in the middle position the entire time I used it so it could be moved to fire with ease but, talk about dangerous, it was easily moved to fire by just brushing it against clothing or brush etc  Absolutely terrible design IMO...Anyone else share the same dislike for the M70 type safeties? Reloader | ||
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No................DJ ....Remember that this is all supposed to be for fun!.................. | |||
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Yep... grew up with side safeties, and never had a problem with them... Bought a 77 tang safety model and thought it was the cat's meow... Now have a pre 64 Winny, and a Ruger 77MkII, both with the 3 pos safety, and loath them - (the safety's that is). Fortunately I was taught to never rely on the safety anyway, so I never use them - so it isn't really an issue, but there has to be a more user friendly device than the 3 pos side safety. ******************************** A gun is a tool. A moron is a moron. A moron with a hammer who busts something is still just a moron, it's not a hammer problem. Daniel77 | |||
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There is only one safety that I don't like and that is the push button safety on the front of trigger guards but that is because I'm left handed. Other than that, it doesn't matter what the safety is like. I have a couple of dedicated varminters that I have never used the safety on. I don't even remember if I ever tested them to see if they work. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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There is no such thing as a perfect mechanical safety. It is too subjective. What may be ideal for some may be piss poor for others. I like firearms of different makes, models and flavors. They all have different characteristics and feel. Some are for the better and some are for the worse. I can safely use my antique model 64 Winchester that only has half cock. I enjoy it and I understand its design. Same can be said for my 97 Winchesters or hammered antique double barrels. My grandfathers 1st generation Colt, etc., etc. I like the overall package of the M70. I also like the overall package of the mkII. They have different characteristics of which I am comfortable with. Myself personally, I know that the mkII will stay solid in stage #1 better than the M70. But I also know that the M70 will come out of stage #1 to stage #3(fire) much easier than the mkII. The mkII does not require any great feat to take it off safe to fire on a game animal, but it requires a tad more effort. Filp side is the M70 flip/clunks off so fast that it can be knocked into stage #3(fire) under some conditions inadvertently. Again, just like a half-cock, it is a characteristic one needs to be familiar with. I have certain M70s that I hope will last my lifetime. They are great rifles. I also have mkIIs that I feel the same about. The only safety that I truly hate and will always avoid, is a careless person whose safety is broken between the ears. Some can be corrected w/ knowledge and training, but some will forever be broken. GVA | |||
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Can't agree on the detraction of theModel 70 style three position safety. All my big bore DG rifles have it, the Win 70's, the CZ 550 conversions, and other custom rifles. For me it works well and I have a similar system on all rifles where a quick shot is usually necessary from the safety ON position, so no time to decipher some slide or tang mechanism. That said, the best system for anyone is a reliable system which you can work quickly on auto-pilot every time. For non-dangerous animals hunted in open cover, I don't think it is an issue at all. Dak | |||
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I'm glad you started the thread and said what you did, Reloader. I'm the guy that started the Win70 safety thread. Until your post, it never occurred to me that someone would actually not LIKE the model 70 safety. I always looked at the naysayers as people who for various reasons felt the need to defend there favorite rifle brand, and weren't being reasonable. I was wrong. YOU DON'T LIKE THEM. Learning experience for me. I get aggravated at some Win70's because of the noise they create. I have even dissassembled some and polished the indents so they would move easier and more silently. On most of them, if you will put downward pressure with your thumb WHILE pushing forward, they can be operated silently. This is really a quality control issue. The noisest safety I ever owned was a Ruger 77 with the tang mounted safety. I had to trade it off. When you slid it forward, it RANG. Just like a bell! And not just momentarily, either. The "wire" connector was somehow slamming against the side of the receiver. It really soured me on Rugers, though I've never heard another one do it. Aside from that, I like tang safeties, epecially on shotguns. The Remington 700 would be, in my opinion, the perfect safety (for ease of operation and silence) if it just had 3 positions. Like the New Ultra Light Arms does (I've never handled one of these). People can say that 2 positions are adequate all they want, but it will never make it so. Some people on here are SO SAFE with their guns that they don't need safeties. They are SO SAFE with their guns that no one else should get to own guns unless they are AS SAFE as they are. In fact, they would probably be most happy if they quit putting safeties on guns, and if you aren't AS SAFE as they are, then you don't get to buy one. Can you imagine 5 million hunters in the woods with guns that have no safeties. Don't worry about that, cause everyone will be SO SAFE, that it wouldn't be a problem. If you are going to put a safety on a gun, it should have 3 positions. You need to be able to lock the bolt, and you need to be able to unlock the bolt to unload the rifle without taking the safety off. Now THAT is SAFE. Some people don't care if the bolt is locked or not. Trouble is, no rifle maker is going to make it available both ways, so the way you accomodate everyone is to make the safety 3 postions. | |||
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I'm in......I can't stand 3-Position M-70 Safeties. Thats the whole reason I like the CZ rifle. CRF with a 2 position safety. I never understood the popularity with that ugly and obstructive idea for a safety. It's like the "dimmer-knob light switch" of safeties. 99% of the time you just want the light to go on and off but someone had to invent another version that gives you a feature that is literally never used and confuses others when they try to use it, and don't expect it. -Everybody has a dream hunt, mine just happens to be for a Moose.- -The 30-06 is like a perfect steak next to a campfire, a .300 Win Mag is the same but with mushrooms and a baked potato- | |||
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M70 is my favorite safety. It's a natural for me and it's one of the safest safeties on the market. If it blocks the firing pin it's good. Terry -------------------------------------------- Well, other than that Mrs. Lincoln, how was the play? | |||
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Reloader, I completely agree with you. Safeties should be ON or OFF, period. | |||
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A Model 70 safety blocks the firing pin with a solid cam of steel and disconnects the trigger. Most other safeties simply block the trigger from being pulled, but in the end it is only a few thousandths of sear engagement preventing the rifle from firing. I know which one I find more comforting. | |||
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After reading your post on your Mod 70 safety thread and reading this post I can say that I probably would not want to share a hunting camp with you. You make it sound as though you are not a safe enough person to hunt with a 2 position safety. That would definately scare me. "Science only goes so far then God takes over." | |||
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How can anyone hate the Model 70 safety? It's as safe as any safety being made today - assuming that the operator can walk and chew gum at the same time.  Quibble if you want to about the middle position (and I do not think it is necessary or even important), but hate it? No way. Mike Wilderness is my cathedral, and hunting is my prayer. | |||
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Never really liked them, but so much better than any other safetys for a M98 - unless one customize and make a tang-safety. My preference would be a Weatherby MkV safety on any boltrifle, it blocks the fiering pin and the bolt. Funny how everybody claims it is the only choise on a DGR, and then claimes that nothing beats a Double Barreled Rifle. Are they also to be installed with M70 safeties? Bent Fossdal Reiso 5685 Uggdal Norway | |||
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All my rifles have a three position safety, Winchesters, Rugers, and Mausers. I won't own a Remington in protest of their sorry assed safety, no matter how accurate they shoot. This argument about two-position vs three-position safetys is silly. It's like the differences in opinion liberals vs conservitives, republicans vs democrats. There are some issues which will never be resolved, and nobody is going to change their mind. I always regarded two-position safety advocates as the guys, when they were boys, whose mothers used to hollar out the back door, "Leroy leave that wheel barrow alone - you don't know nothing about machinery". So, I feel pity for these guys, who were never encouraged to learn about machinery, and refinement. KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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Geez imagine that, and oh yeah it's two position which I prefer. "Science only goes so far then God takes over." | |||
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As good as the M70 safety is it still is a little hard to quickly and quietly flick off without noticeable movement. Even the best can still be better. | |||
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the model 70 safty is not for me hate it. I understand if you like it I just dont. the m1917 enfield has the perfect safty the cz 527 is a close second also dont mind the browning and steyr placement of safty remington is a piece of scrap ever sense the no bolt lock thing. I guess it depends what you want the safty to do. I want it to stop the rifle from fireing and lock the bolt closed nothing more. I think the fireing pin should be blocked to stop the rifle from fireing. mechanical safty is only as good as the guy holding it not a replacement for common sense dont load until you are ready to fire dont cover with your muzzle what you dont want to shoot and point in a safe direction to unload how hard is this? no safty removes these things from truth. the mechanicle failure discharge is almost never the accidental discharge is rare the negligent discharge happens often. dont be a maynard engage your brain before you act and you dont need to wory about what assholeprufe features your rifle has. VERITAS ODIUM PARIT | |||
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That is why there are so many different rifle designs to make us all happy. I prefer the Rem 700 but that does not mean the others are not good. I just like what I like and eveybody else can like what they like. | |||
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I am kind a conservative in safety dept.. M70 saftety belongs on a american rifles... M98 Wingsafety belongs on MAUSER 98.. IF a sidesafety should be applied, only a Greener would do..everything else should be welded up periodly.... DRSS: HQ Scandinavia. Chapters in Sweden & Norway | |||
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Jarrod, don't you realize that I was ridiculing those people who claim they are so safe that they don't need a safety? That entire paragraph was sarcasm. There is simply nothing in any of my posts that indicate that I'm not a safe gun handler. In fact, I never even discusssed how I handle a safety. Your hostility is related to something entirely of a different subject. Either you have assigned my name to someone else's post, or you simply don't want to hear what I'm saying. I guess telling someone you wouldn't want them in your hunting camp is the ultimate insult. In this case, it sounds like its coming from someone who is the ultimate jerk. I'm sure, though, that you are only impersonating the ultimate jerk, and are not actually the ultimate jerk yourself. If you were, you wouldn't even HAVE a hunting camp. | |||
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I have several diff. rifles including M70s. I like the tang safety on my M77 & #1s the best, just feels right all of the time. The M70 works fine, a bit noisy but w/ practice you can deal w/ it. A Ruger w/ CF & tang safety would be outstanding. BTW, I never trust a mech'l. device to be "safe". I trust my ability to be safe. LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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I have never hated the M70 safety, but the one I like the best is the tang type such as on the Ruger No. 1's, and the M77's before Ruger "improved" them. But I believe they should have had an intermediate position on the M77 tang safety so the bolt could have been cycled with the safety "on". I like a safety that has a position that locks the bolt, however. But none of those crossbolt contraptions they put on shotguns does it for me. I prefer the tang type such as the cheapie Mossberg has over a crossbolt safety stuck throuth the triggerguard somewhere! "Bitte, trinks du nicht das Wasser. Dahin haben die Kuhen gesheissen." | |||
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Hmmm! Great minds think alike. I dunno if this would work, but how about a tang safety that wotks similar to a double barrel shotgun. You know the type, back and forth is safe and fire and side by side picks the barrel. So back and forth would still be safe and fire and lock the bolt closes on safe. Then moving the safety either right or left would unlock the bolt, yet still keep the firing pin blocked so that the gun can't fire. This would make clearing the chamber a safer proposition just as the current three position does in the M70 and Ruger 77 Mk II. Just an idea that all this palaver brought to mind. Frankly, I like the idea of the thre position safety. After making up a few boxes of my serious hunting loads, I can take the rifle to range, if I have time, or run those loads through the action and know the firing pin is still blocked. Well at least in theory anyway. When I was young, and the Pre-64 M70 literally ruled the roost, I hated that damn rifle. I never have figured out why. Most of the M70s I have today are push feed models ranging from late 1968 to late 1990s. They're all good shooters and I guess I'll keep then, even though they don't have the vaunted controlled feed. I'll probably never hunt anything that might bite me or stpmp me into a muddy jelly, so what the hell. I'll just enjoy them for what they are, neat rifles that shoot better than I can most of the time. I've never had a saftey fail me at any time in the 58 years I've been fortunate enough to be able to hunt, and I've never had one spook an animal yet. Doesn't mean it won't happen but I hope my ability to control the direction of my muzzle will save my sorry ass should I ever have a safety fail. No I never said I haven't had an AD, or ND if you prefer. But I can damn well state that none of them were the fault of the safety except one, and that was on a Colt Single Action that some idiot had buggered up for fast draw. It took a new trigger and hammer to fix that one. But that's a story for another time. Paul B. | |||
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Very wise words, I concur. Goes back to how I was raised "Treat em' like they are always loaded and ready to fire son." Reloader | |||
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Paul, thats a good idea. Reloader | |||
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So you like the 700's fail on fire safety that fails to lock the bolt and looks like a hurst shifter on a 66 Rambler Javelin? Even custom rifle makers that use the 700, can't wait to get rid of that POS safety and put in a 70 type. To each his own I guess. jorge USN (ret) DRSS Verney-Carron 450NE Cogswell & Harrison 375 Fl NE Sabatti Big Five 375 FL Magnum NE DSC Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Wow. I guess I've never given it much thought. Since the rifle I've used the most is a Ruger MKII with the 3 position safety, I just accepted it as "it is what it is." Indifferent, I guess you could say. I don't mind it but I can't say it's "GREAT" either. My safety is very quiet. Now, all of my other rifles are Rem 700s and my 7mag in particular takes a damn tow truck to turn the safety off. It is very loud unless I use 2 fingers to dampen it. After thinking about it, I guess I do have a favorite and they are the Jewel safeties on 3 of my rifles that replaced the 700 factory. They are very nice. Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my guns | |||
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I hate model 70 safetys .I love old Ruger model 77 tang safetys.I can take off the safety and shoot at the same time.Its like a fine double barrel. | |||
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I have no problem with the M70 safety. Like someone else said I do hate the safetys on shotguns that are a cross bolt in front of the trigger guard. Don Nelson Sw. PA. | |||
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MikeG50, I guess I just misinterperted your post. "Science only goes so far then God takes over." | |||
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+1 Sako 75 & 85 rifles, are two positions, but allow you to depress the safety so you can cycle the bolt while the rile is still on safe and eject the chambered round. A neat middle ground actually...... | |||
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That's very gracious of you Jarrod. I take back my unkind remark. | |||
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I like the three position Ruger safety, I like the three position Winchester safety. I like the tang safeties on my other Rugers and on my Savages. I don't know if the snide remark about people being unsafe because they don't use safeties was aimed at me but on my varmint guns, I only single load them when I'm ready to shoot. Otherwise their actions are open at all times. Some people rely on a safety I prefer not too. Frank "I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money." - Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953 NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite | |||
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Reminds me of American soldiers in Nam, they walked&chewed gum&smoked&wore aftershave&had their transistor radios blazing, and got themselves & others dead cause of it. Cant say I dont like M70 safety,but is indeed much overated. I much would prefer the M70 rifle with the WeatherbyMkV type safety, its a gem. But as Ive said before, my best kind of safety lever is the bolt handle on first notch.Dont get much simpler. | |||
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Count me as one who thinks the 1917-style safety and the old rugger tang safety are the best. I get along real well with a two position safety, the logic of the third option escapes me. Hit the floor plate button, dump every round but the one in the chamber. Open the bolt and that one is gone. Rich DRSS | |||
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The most annoying thing is so many new mauser 98s are fitted with this damn M70 saftey ,for that reason i would not own one of them ,the M17 or tang saftey is the best ! besides it looks ugly as well '',you can cycle ammo through the action with the saftey on '' and ??? | |||
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what about the browning a-bolt. i had a micro medallion seemed like a good safety to me. when im in close on an animal i always dampen the safety with a thumb and a finger. if its a fast shot usually noise and movement doesnt matter. rem sav win rug i like em all | |||
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I love pre-64 win 70's except I despise the wrong sided 3 position wing safety. If you own a gun and you are not a member of the NRA and other pro 2nd amendment organizations then YOU are part of the problem. | |||
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How many custom rifle makers that use a 700 action did you contact in order to back up your statement? | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Anyone else hate a M70 safety?????
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