Those look like savages as well ?
...tj

I have to be honest but if I ever get the overwhelming desire to get a 308 or heaven help us a 7-08, I know it will be time to check into the nursing home

To the nay sayers who claim facts, I can only say they have not done their homework..

48.5 grs. of Varget in my .308 Kimber 22" barrel, will push a 150 gr. bullet to 3001 FPS, 10 shot average taking our the high and the low, on my chronograph and that is also the best my 30-06s will do with any 150 gr. bullet..

The difference in the 30-06 is when one shoots 200 gr. and 220 gr. bullets, then it will out perform the .308, therefore the 06 IS more versatile I suppose or at least on paper, but even then not by a hell of a lot..

Both are great calibers, the 06 is and has been my favorite one rifle caliber, but its no better or worse than a .308, 7x57, 270, 280, or even the 300s, as far as game killing ability at equal ranges..They all work just fine and the rest it BS....

If you need more then more starts with the .338 Win. and how much better it performs past the above is perhaps questionable IMO..

I have used and witnessed all these caliber used on a varity of game, and damned if I can tell any difference from the reaction of the animals shot..on occasion I see something spectacular with all of them and that always adds to the confusion..

Anyway just my take, and I'll let the ballistic experts and paper tigers fight this one out.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:

Both are great calibers, the 06 is and has been my favorite one rifle caliber, but its no better or worse than a .308, 7x57, 270, 280, or even the 300s, as far as game killing ability at equal ranges..They all work just fine and the rest it BS....

Ray, I buy what you say as fact.This is a discussion About the .308. an I maintain it is a useful hunting round no doubt. Its existence came to be as the round to use in the behind the times M14. At that time the Government failed to take advantage of modern existing technology and come out with a much lighter and more versatile select firing rifle using something like Frank Barnes' .308 X 1.625" with let's say a 130 grain bullet. I think a Russian Sargent did it quite well in 1943. To bad we didn't improve on his thinking like he did on what the Germans did.

Again, the .308 does a good job but as you pointed out we had a ""plethora"" of rounds that already filled the bill.So why was it born as a sporting round and why does it still exist?? The answer is really rather straight forward! Have great THANKSGIVING TO ALL!! roger

Your correct Bartsche !
The answer is strait forward.. People like it !
...tj3006

Don't give Bartsche a big head. He'll need a new hat.

quote:

Originally posted by scottfromdallas:
Don't give Bartsche a big head. He'll need a new hat.

I have to admit to being pretty much ambivalent to the 308 for much of my life. I always knew it was a capable round but never really warmed up to it.

I had one early on in my adulthood; I was 18 or 19 when I bought it. I had it a few years but in my youthful quest for faster, flatter and and sexier, I let it get away from me. That first one was a Remington 700 ADL with a factory 20" barrel, somewhat of an oddity I guess. Many years later I traded into a Winchester 100 in 308 for my wife. She never really warmed up to it and it went away.

When her son got out of the Army his dad had been keeping his uncle's 308 for him. My wife's brother had left his 308 to Jason. It's a BSA Majestic and what a sweet little rifle. I've never weighed it but doubt it runs over 6 pounds. He was not a hunter and asked us to hang onto the rifle for safe keeping. He was in college and didn't want to risk loosing it. He insisted his mom make hunt with it as he wouldn't be using it. I worked up a few loads for it with Hornady 150, 165 and 180 grain bullets. It seemed to like all of them but wasn't a tack driver by any means. That didn't matter to my wife. She was happy to use the gun that had belonged to her brother and now belonged to her son. She racked up several mule deer and whitetail does along with a couple of elk cows. We are just as happy with does and cows as we are with antlers.

When her son passed from leukemia four years ago I offered to buy the gun from our daughter in law so it would stay with the family or to store it till such time as she wanted to do something with it. She gave to my wife and said it would mean more to her knowing Etta had it and treasured it. And that she does. She sheds a brief tear every time she picks up the rifle.

I decided to do some more serious load development with it when Etta was drawn for a cow moose tag a couple of years ago. I had very few of the old Hornady reloads left and bullets were in short supply. I did find some 150 grain Barnes TSX and some 165 grain Nosler Partitions locally and went to work. The little rifle was rather indifferent to the Noslers but loved the Barnes. So Barnes TSX it was. I was just a little trepidatious about pitting a 308 and a 150 grain bullet against a moose but I guess I knew in the back of my mind that was silly. Moose have been knocked over by less rounds than the 308 for as long as there have been cartridge rifles and I was going to be right by her side with a 400 Whelen.

We found a cow moose during one of our hunts and Etta made a 30 yard shot with the little rifle. The moose moved just a few yards and I moved around to intercept it thinking I was going to have to finish it with the 400. Just as I got a clear look at the cow she toppled from my wife's one shot. Its eyes were glassed over by the time I covered the few yards that separated us. Hard to argue with the performance of the shooter, the chambering or the bullet. The shot had been a hard quartering one and the bullet took out the forward portion of the liver, crossed through the lungs leaving 1.5 inch holes in both and exited tight behind the off shoulder. Close to 24 inches of penetration. I was impressed.

That was the first animal my wife had taken with her son's rifle since he passed away. You can rest assured it is her favorite rifle and on the never sell list.

Has this changed my ambivalence to the 308? Yes. I guess more than anything is it reinforced what I always knew to be true but never really admitted or took time to consider. The 308 is a great round. It's gentle on the shoulder, easy to load for and works well on game.

Here's the star of the story with her rifle and moose from two years ago.

Nice write up, Mart ! Big head

quote:

Originally posted by just-a-hunter:
Anything and I mean anything the .308 can do the 30-06 can do better or just as good.

Having owned, loaded for, shot, hunted with, and killed game with many examples of each the 308 Win and 30-06, I can absolutely testify this is not exactly "true."

The 30-06 uses roughly 30% more powder with any given bullet weight over the 308.

That translates into RECOIL.

The 308 recoils noticeably lighter than the 30-06. THIS is the 308's primary claim to fame.

The 308 works in a true SA action. The 30-06 doesn't. I like SA's. Lighter, stiffer action.

The 308 is absolutely a more inherently accurate cartridge than the 30-06 apples to apples (build to build). This has been demonstrated empirically enough that it's beyond intelligent dispute. Having said that, a 30-06 can be built to offer exceptional accuracy.

The 308 in factory ammo is exactly the same velocity-wise as 30-06 factory ammo. If all you use is factory ammo there's no real reason to shoot a 30-06.

Certainly the 30-06 is a fine cartridge, and handloaded, will do more than the 308 Win... but that "more" is never free. It comes at a cost of action length, weight, powder consumption, recoil and muzzle blast.

I defy anyone to demonstrate any real-world difference between the two in the field on game!

But this is all fun and games, and you have only yourself to please!

This years bull taken with the lowly 308 Win:

Nice pictures
And great stories. And that is a prety elk !
I bought a nikkon prostaff 2x7 for my savage 99 .308 today. Mounted it Already, it is a very nice scope for 150.00...tj3006

Beautiful bull taken with an outstanding cartridge Brad.

Bartsche,
Your post is correct without a doubt, but seems to show a tad or preferable prejudice towards the old 06! and although that's always a shinning star in the sky with me, as I am a devout 30-06 fan, but keep in mind the .308 came into existence just like the 30-06 did and the old timers of that time (I was there btw) made similar claims as you, perhaps self included if you twisted my arm and water boarded me...And keep in mind the .223 became popular because Uncle Sam made it so, needed, maybe, maybe not, but you can bet on it every time because sooner or later brass and ammo can be had mighty cheap with gov. rounds, a fact one cannot deny.

That said, the .308 is probably the caliber that is closest to an all around big game rifle that doesn't recoil like a 30-06, but at least on paper the .308 has the ballistics to kill any animal on the planet (yes, elephant included) and recoil more like a 7x57 or 257 Roberts..That,s why it has become a top seller. Yes sir, it's needed for a number of reasons. No sir its no better than a 30-06 or .270, but neither are a cornucopia of calibers.

Brad beautifully elk. What was your load and distance for that shot. Thanks Bob

Wonderful stories and trophies, all! Thank you for sharing!

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:

...And keep in mind the .223 became popular because Uncle Sam made it so, needed, maybe, maybe not, but you can bet on it every time because sooner or later brass and ammo can be had mighty cheap with gov. rounds, a fact one cannot deny.

Golden words. While this is a common machine gun cartridge it will be popular in the civilian field. The prepared cartridges can be bought for about 20 cents apiece. For the same reason, rural hunters hunt the moose and even a bear with an SKS and 7.62x39.
Although I have left a personal impression: 30-06 has long sleeve and is sensitive to uncertain work with the bolt. I've seen a couple of times, as the guy had a jam when reloaded at a critical point, the last time in this weekend.

I guess with me, having 3 30-06 and 2 .308s at the present says it all.

My take on owning two .308s is: I need a couple of light caliber, light weitht rifles for hunting on foot and horseback...Now I love the .257 Robts. the 7x57s and a few others, but the .308 in my 5.2 lb. Kimber is more gun than the others of the same light weight, and suitable in a pinch for even elephant, and probably beats the 7x57 a tad bit, so thus my choice. My savage 99F in .308 is my elk gun and its flat and fits in a saddle scabbard ever so much better than any bolt action, and on long 20 mile rides you can feel the difference in your leg at the end of the day....so its a bit better than the 06 under those conditions..

The 06 is only about a 100 FPS better with 180 gr. bullets but it really shines over my .308 when stuffed with those awesome 200 gr. Nosler Partitions at 2600 to even 2700 FPS, that's when the 06 walks and talks with my 300 Win. in killing effect, but not in trajectory..

That's my take on the cute little .308! Gotta be the best of the featherweights!

I ordered an Armalite AR10. I am patiently waiting for it!!! I never have had a 308 before. I am looking forward to playing with it.

quote:

Originally posted by Brad:

quote:

Originally posted by just-a-hunter:
Anything and I mean anything the .308 can do the 30-06 can do better or just as good.

Having owned, loaded for, shot, hunted with, and killed game with many examples of each the 308 Win and 30-06, I can absolutely testify this is not exactly "true."

The 30-06 uses roughly 30% more powder with any given bullet weight over the 308.

That translates into RECOIL.

The 308 recoils noticeably lighter than the 30-06. THIS is the 308's primary claim to fame.

The 308 works in a true SA action. The 30-06 doesn't. I like SA's. Lighter, stiffer action.

The 308 is absolutely a more inherently accurate cartridge than the 30-06 apples to apples (build to build). This has been demonstrated empirically enough that it's beyond intelligent dispute. Having said that, a 30-06 can be built to offer exceptional accuracy.

The 308 in factory ammo is exactly the same velocity-wise as 30-06 factory ammo. If all you use is factory ammo there's no real reason to shoot a 30-06.

Certainly the 30-06 is a fine cartridge, and handloaded, will do more than the 308 Win... but that "more" is never free. It comes at a cost of action length, weight, powder consumption, recoil and muzzle blast.

I defy anyone to demonstrate any real-world difference between the two in the field on game!

But this is all fun and games, and you have only yourself to please!

This years bull taken with the lowly 308 Win:

Brad:

You pretty summed up my thoughts. I will take accuracy ever time over velocity. Velocity only matters at longer ranges, but then, wind is big four letter word. When it comes to wind, it is much easier to hit with an accurate rifle even if the drift is a bit more.

I have been hunting deer for years and years with my little .308. Its a Winchester Classic Compact Model 70 with the featherweight 20 inch barrel. A real nice little rifle to carry around in the woods. Not super accurate, but shoots better than I can.

I reload for it. Nosler 180 grain partition bullets (2nds) in front of 42.5 grains of IMR 4064 powder and a Rem. 9.5 primer. I don't have a chronograph so I don't know how fast that load is, but I do know that almost every deer I hit with that load is usually dead right there, and if not they run a couple of yards and flop.

My scope of choice is an old Bausch & Lomb Elite 3000, which works very well even though its old, and it was cheap!

Well, as much as I like the .308 I have to agree with Bartche, it is as worthless as tits on a bore hog., but only if he concedes that so is the 270, 243m 7x57, 280, 7 mag, 257, 250 Savage, and a host of other calibers that pretty much clone each other in the hunting fields, and why is this...Simply because we never needed anything else once we developed the king of hunting rifles, the 30-06!