I like the .308.
To me its the best round out there for general purpose shooting.
My currant favorite is my 1955 apx savage 99F.
I shoots most any 150 grain bullet into an inch at 100 yards , with W-748.
Its light handy , and just plain a great deer rifle as far as i care to shoot.
The only thing i could say that you might call a negative, is the i will not load up to max loads with this one.
My load with witch i took a huge mule deer buck was a 150 grain speer flat base over 47.5 grains of W-748. Velocity is right at 2800.
I think i need to get a longer barreled bolt rifle to make the most of the round.
I would prefer a sporter weight rather than a varmint type.
Barnes shows some impressive velocity with the 168 grain t shock using a 24.
Remington makes a few possibilities , but all the negative talk about there stuff has me thinking savage.
opinions ? ...tj3006

I know more than a few people who have been shooting Remingtons for years with NO problems, if you want a Remington then get one.
I myself am a Winchester fan.
If you are going to be shooting Barnes Triple Shocks or TTSX's then drop down in weight to 150's or even 130's. They will still out penetrate any copper and lead bullet and you will get that added velocity you are after.

If what you've got is working, why change? 2800fps is an excellent start toward killing stuff. 200fps ain't gonna make the stuff deader nor is it gonna flatten out your trajectory. Why not get something in another caliber to play around with?

quote:

Barnes shows some impressive velocity with the 168 grain t shock using a 24

I have found claimed velocities are just that.

If you don't own a croney get one.

A 308 only holds so much powder if you want more velocity buy a round with a larger case.

06 well out preform a 308 ect ect.

I've had real good luck withs a couple of Remington's in 308. Never tried X-bullets though. You don't need more velocity, but it won't hurt.

If someone is knocking a 30-06, a big sign that says IDIOT comes on their forehead. The .308, son of the 30-06 is right there with dad. The .308 offers one advantage over a 30-06. It is short cartridge and will work better in an action other than bolt, than what a 30-06 will. So if going bolt, go 30-06. It is correct that for hunting the game wont know about the 200 fps (at best) difference in velocity. In my books you can't beat a 150 grain bullet in it.

My go to gun is a 308. I have three in different configurations and love them all. I just load until I find one that particular rifle likes and move on. These three rifles all like different weight bullets. The Micro-Medallion likes 150s, the Heavy barrel likes 165 and the BLR likes 180s, so that is what they are fed. I play with more loads every year, but that is because it is just plain fun to do.

20-24" won't make much of a diff. Because the 308 can be had in a short action I am more inclined to have it in a 20-22". Really you are only loosing 25-30 fps per inch usually and that can't really be realized unless you work with a lot of barrels. The Winchester Ultimate shadow is a great gun. I prefer the to the EW because I just windup pitching the stock anyways and I don't care for fluted barrels. Buy the ultimate shadow and you are 300 ahead over the EW. The Remington 700 are decent also.

I have a bunch of other calibers already.
06 7mm rem mag .338 win 7x57 2 Roberts and 1 Roberts AI , a 45/70 and a 116 year old 30/30 i forgot the hornet and 44 mag levers.
I am thinking of selling a bunch of them and get some more .308s
I also have a 1953 model 70 featherweight .308. There is some good points here. My 99 savage is reall good. But just have it in my head that to ring the most from the .308 i need a stronger action and longer barrel...tj3006

quote:

Originally posted by tjroberts:
I have a bunch of other calibers already.
06 7mm rem mag .338 win 7x57 2 Roberts and 1 Roberts AI , a 45/70 and a 116 year old 30/30 i forgot the hornet and 44 mag levers.
I am thinking of selling a bunch of them and get some more .308s
I also have a 1953 model 70 featherweight .308. There is some good points here. My 99 savage is reall good. But just have it in my head that to ring the most from the .308 i need a stronger action and longer barrel...tj3006

If that's the case, get a longer barrel! My favorite 30-06 has a 24" barrel on an M70 action. Scoped and loaded weighs just under 8lbs? I don't like going over 24" anymore but also don't think 24"s is unwieldy. The 308 is a great cartridge.

Whatever you decide, you need to spend a few bucks on a chrony. Without one, you are just "shooting in the dark". (pun intended )

tj,
Your experience pretty much mirrows mine..The .308 is for all proactical purposes a 30-06 with 150 and 180 gr. bullets, a bit less with the heavier bullets the 06 is the better of the two, but only when handloaded with 200 and 220 gr. bullets, the .308 just doesn'thave the powder capacity to comepete with the 06 with heavy bullets..

My two .308s are a Savage 99F as is yours and it likewise shoots into and inch every time for 3 shots and most of the time with 5 shots. It has been my go to deer and elk rifle when I hunt horseback, for at least the last 60 or more years, no blue and stock looks like custom drift wood, but it shoots and functions. To me its like an old dog or horse, just plain reliable....

A accurate .308 with a 180 gr. Nosler partition at 2650 FPS is just deadly on about anything you shoot in the heart or lungs. Animals have a hard time surviving without heart and lungs contrary to some reports!

My other .308 is a blue and wood Kimber Montana and its a tack driver, it weighs 5.2 oz. without scope and about 6 lbs with a scope..It is a lovely little rifle that I would hunt about anything in NA or Africa with and feel relitively comfortable with. I have seen many elephants culled with the .308, and have personally killed a few elk with one, not to mention a couple of Eland and assorted PG..Not always the best for the job, but it will always get the job done if one does his part, and uses his head. It rates with the handloaded 7x57, or the 30-06, .270, 280, 284, and a host of others and that alone is pretty good company.

Ray you have good tastes.
I had a Kimber french walnut .308 a few years back. It was real good. Don't know why i don't have it any more. Traded for something.
And i do have a chrony.
Have not used it for awhile now. Will chrony the load i used on the big Mule deer i shot , i think i could probably go to 48.5 grains with that speer bullet, book max is 50 so this summer i will give it a whirl.
...tj3006

Since your mentioned Savage, I'm shocked how fast and accurate my Savage Lightweight is with only a 20" pencil barrel. It's my lightweight 308 and I'm getting close to 2900 FPS from a 20" barrel.

Scottfromdallas I've been wondering about them, specifically what the twist rate was for the 223 and 243. Was thinking of 308 as well. Not a big fan of detachable mags on bolt guns but it seemed pretty sturdy.

That savage is nice !
Did you paint a factory stock ? or did it come that way !
I could enjoy that rifle ! If it shoots like that !
I just put together a load with 42 grains of IMR 4064 under a 165 sierra boat tail. I hope to try out soon.
Thats a grain and a half under max in the manual, and should be around 2600.
If it shoots strait i will add a half grain...tj

It's a home made spray paint camo. Came in black. I added a tactical bolt for $50. The knob is aluminum so the weight was a wash. The factory knob was a little smaller than I liked. I'm used to Ruger knobs.

The rifle is 5.5 lbs. It has a lot of plastic to keep the weight down including trigger guard and it uses the Axis magazine to reduce weight from the typical magazine system used on the 10 Series.

I bought it as a cheap mountain rifle. I was pretty shocked at how well it shot with that cheap plastic stock. You could easily get it closer to 6 lbs if you used lightweight mount and scopes. That Weaver is 16.6 oz and the rings are Leupold PRWs. I like the weight closer to 7lbs because it makes it easier to shoot. Most my rifles are 8-8.5 lbs with scope so this feels much lighter to me but not too light.

I was really surprised at the speeds I'm getting with a 20" barrel.

I have one of the Stainless Remington's with the 5R MilSpec barrels. 44.8 grains of RL15 and the Hornady 168 gr AMax, it is an absolute tack driver.

My first experience with the .308 was in 1963, when I was issued an M14 rifle in Marine Corps Officer's Basic School. In my previous training I had been issued an M1, but I quickly adjusted to the not-so-new weapon.

After leaving active duty, I had a spot on the All Marine Reserve Rifle team, which represented my first experience with the National Match version of the M14. Later, when I served with the state High Power Rifle Team, I again used a National Match M14.

When I stopped competing as a part of the state team, my choice of a bolt action target rifle was a pre-64 Model 70, again in .308, and I competed for many years with various versions of that rifle, including full blown custom models, with Hart barrels, Warne sights, Jewell triggers and fully adjustable McMillan stocks.

In all this time, I had never used a .308 as a hunting rifle. Finally, I decided to change that.

I had been shooting the 200 yard stage of the National Match course using Hornady 130 grain spire point bullets, becuase they were cheap and accurate and offered little recoil in the rapid fire stage, and I had a plentiful supply of these projectiles. My other bullets, for the 300 and 600 yard stages were 168 grain Sierra Match Kings and Berger 165 and 175 grain VLD bullets, clearly unsuitable for hunting, so I chose to try the Hornadys for my first hunting experience with the .308.

I live on a farm, with about 80 acres in cultivation, generally soy beans. I also have a large deer population, which thoroughly enjoys my choice of crops, so there was no lack of opportunity to test the .308's and the Hornady's performance. I simply shouldere my Model 100 Winchester in that caliber, fitted with a 4X Lyman All American scope, and walked to one of the fields particularly favored (or destroyed) by the deer, depending on your attitude.

I seated myself on a stump some yards away from the edge of the field, but more or less concealed by the intervening trees and undergrowth. I had not been there long, when a good sized buck sauntered down the edge of the woods and paused to nibble at a tempting plant. I took the opportunity to inject him with one of the 130 grain bullets.

To my amazement, he reared up on his hind legs and fled across the clearing and into the woods. I waited a few moments and then followed him. He was found piled up about a hundred yards from the point where he was hit. Further examination revealed that the shot had not only destroyed his heart and lungs, but had broken both shoulders, leaving both of his forelegs dangling. How he made it that far in that condition remains a mystery.

That one shot was all it took to convince me of the effectiveness of the .308 and that light Hornady bullet on deer. Fifteen years later I am still using it, and it has never failed to do its job, when I did mine by putting it in the right place.

Since this is 308 talk, Midway has a one time offering of the Federal 130 SOST bullet for $.19 a bullet. I picked up 500 for my FNAR. I figure it should work about like a Partition blowing the front end for shock and then the all copper shank plowing though for an exit.


http://www.midwayusa.com/produ...of-250-bulk-packaged

That's a good story with that 130 grain Hornady.
130 grain bullet. But i really see no reason to go any lighter than 150s
I don't know how big the deer are where you live but i shot one this year that was at least 225 lbs, maybe 250.
I like 150s and 165s The trajectory is so close out to 300 yards that the only difference i see is that a 165 makes a better elk round...tj3006

If I had a 308 the last thing I wold be worried about is a few feet per second. Now if you were talking about a 300 Wby, 300 RUM or 30-378 then that is a different deal. With these sorts of calibres the gun/calibre is no longer just a means to an end

To me the 308 is a Toyota Camry or similar, it gets you from A to B without fuss, bother or excitement.

Well we already had the 300 Savage , the 30-40 and the 30-06 . If the .308 had not come out as a (((military cartridge))) it would not exist today, making it about as necessary as tits on a boar hog. roger

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Well we already had the 300 Savage , the 30-40 and the 30-06 . If the .308 had not come out as a (((military cartridge))) it would not exist today, making it about as necessary as tits on a boar hog. roger

Except none of those rounds is as accurate as the .308, which has the distinction of being the only cartridge larger than 6mm to win a national benchrest award, which it did in the early 1960's.

quote:

Originally posted by xausa:

Except none of those rounds is as accurate as the .308, which has the distinction of being the only cartridge larger than 6mm to win a national benchrest award, which it did in the early 1960's.

A lot that can be credited to the sheer number used.

If for example you turned up at a bench rest match with something other than the 6mm PPC your chances of winning wold be as close to zero as you can get even if your calibre was more accurate.

Shooting ability and luck play a part and if out of 100 shooters there are 98 with PPCs then the odds are the winner will be a PPC.

I knew we would hear from Bartch at some point
Its interesting that Necessary is part of your post.
Not many of the rounds out there are or were necessary. Lets see , the 30/40 Krag is a cool round especially in a 1895 Winchester. but the rim is not a good idea for feeding , and the Krag rifle was obsolete when we adopted it
The 30,06 is a great round for bolt guns, I have a real nice one , and there are times when it is a little better than the 308.
The 300 savage is good also. And its only value was to give near 06 performance in the 99 lever action.
But for military purpose the 308, is better than either , and its ability to do every thing the 06 does, some better other almost as good , and throw in the lighter recoil an ease with witch it can be made to shoot extremely accurately, make the .308 extremely useful , but i guess not necessary. ...tj

I've long been a fan of the 2.8 x .474 family

The .308 Win with a stout 150 shines

But I like the 1/2" longer .308 father of them all with stout 150's or 180's best

I also agree with just-a-hunter it is better but not by much

Remingtons?

Some might say I've used one.....or abused

A rusty push feed Remington 700 ADL throwing out 150 grn Accubonds at -2900ish fps killed 11 different species of plains game in 2014 with zero failures

Who in the hell takes a Remington ADL to Africa.....the AR internet police are knocking at my door

My first big game rifle was a left handed Remington 788 chambered in 308Win and I used it for all my hunting from 1975 until about 1989 or so. It has well over 10,000 rounds through it and will still group three 165 grain Hornady BTSP's into less than an inch at 100 yards.

quote:

Originally posted by Michael McGuire:

Shooting ability and luck play a part and if out of 100 shooters there are 98 with PPCs then the odds are the winner will be a PPC.

Which make the success of the .308 as a bench rest cartridge all the more remarkable, since only one competitor was using it.

quote:

Originally posted by xausa:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael McGuire:

Shooting ability and luck play a part and if out of 100 shooters there are 98 with PPCs then the odds are the winner will be a PPC.

Which make the success of the .308 as a bench rest cartridge all the more remarkable, since only one competitor was using it.

It was a well put together, finely tuned rifle , absolutely perfect reloads for that rifle and a great shooter . I've witnessed a number of .308 bench rest guys using .308s and never saw one win. By its self there is no such thing as "best accurate cartridge". It is a delicate balance of cartridge components meticulously selected and put together, great optics, scrupulously designed and assembled rifle, well doped conditions, manageable recoil and a shooter that is superior to most . Only than do you approach "inherent accuracy". Following this recipe and than some, almost any small bore cartridge can at some time win matches.

My original premise was that the existence of the .308 is only due to it being an original Mil. cartridge and had it not been so I doubt if it would have ever come to be. The same can be said of the .223. Rather oblique necessity.

All of the many wildcats I have designed and built can fall into the same worthless tits category. I do however use and enjoy them as I do the one Bull barreled .308 I have left. At this time in life they only are my toys.
Spirited exchange . I do miss Hot Core and Sea Fire. roger

The name is spelled Bartsche
roger

quote:

Originally posted by xausa:

quote:

Originally posted by Michael McGuire:

Shooting ability and luck play a part and if out of 100 shooters there are 98 with PPCs then the odds are the winner will be a PPC.

Which make the success of the .308 as a bench rest cartridge all the more remarkable, since only one competitor was using it.

Amazing. I did not know that.

What will make one calibre more inherently accurate is a case capacity that is ideal for available powders and primers.

If all else is equal a calibre with a lighter bullet and lighter powder charge will be a plus since the rifle moves back a smaller distance while the bullet is still in the barrel.

Sorry
About the Spelling ! Bartsche, I suck at spelling...tj3006

The .308 has taken over as my trapline rifle. 150 NP do less damage on wolves and wolverine with having the ability to deal with a winter brown bear,, we are going into or third El Nino year here. This wolf was shot from my steps!

My mauser M 03 with a .308 suppressed barrel has become my favorite deer rifle. 44 grains of Norma 203B/RL-15 and 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip.

My pre-64 Winchester M70 Featherweight in .308 has been my go to deer rifle for many years.
It has been accurized and Magna ported and the Leupold scope is sighted in to place 165 grain bullets in a two inch circle out to 250 yards (same for my .338 Win Mag) . I have other rifles, but when I have no time for errors or do-overs, the .308 gets the job done.

This cow elk below was take a few days ago with a single double lung shot at 200 yards.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rusty:
My mauser M 03 with a .308 suppressed barrel has become my favorite deer rifle. 44 grains of Norma 203B/RL-15 and 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip.

I saved the photo, Rusty.Nice pic.. roger

there are lovers and haters of the .308 Win. I am the former. This 20" rifle will bore you to death with accuracy using either 180 SGK or 175 SMK over RL-15.

[/URL]

wistrapper,

My 223 version is insanely accurate as well.

quote:

Originally posted by scottfromdallas:
wistrapper,

My 223 version is insanely accurate as well.

Scott,

I was hoping you'd ring in. You are the reason I bought that rifle. Many thanks!!