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| One of Us |
Double lung | ||
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| one of us |
I didn't vote because it is meaningless both well do the job in an accurate rifle. That said the one that is in my hands at the time I need to shoot one. I would spend the time thinking about what range finder I should have instead. Knowing the range is the key to hitting out there. | |||
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The faster bullet (if you'd shoot at 400 yards -- I'm not good enough.) 2 cents _______________________ | |||
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I didn't vote and won't given the limited parameters of the poll. With that said whichever of the 2 choices given if I had that rifle in my hands and a good rest and the Elk was still or relatively so and wind was predictable that would be a pretty easy shot. If you don't have a good rest or the wind is erratic or the Elk is alert and moving unpredictable or you don't know your rifle then that shot becomes impossible. | |||
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| one of us |
I have taken several Bulls with my .340 Wby with a 225 Gr. Northfork at 3000 fps. My longest shot was 300 yards, a bang flop that took a huge chunk out of his backbone. Yep it was a near miss but up a snowy mountain at zero temp and this hunter was very proud with the results under the circumstances. Good shooting. phurley | |||
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Went with the 338-06. “Do Not” like light for caliber bullets!!! Even in a “mono”! memtb You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel | |||
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You're not comparing apples to apples. As Just-a-hunter stated the the 338-06 will drive the 185 TTSX at nearly 3000 fps. That equals a dead elk at 400 yards. The elk won't notice the extra 250 fps the 340 would provide. A 338-06 is not the equivalent of the 338 WM, 340 WBY, 330 Dakota and 338 Ultra all of which I have hunted with but it is a notable step up from the '06 in my mind. Mark MARK H. YOUNG MARK'S EXCLUSIVE ADVENTURES 7094 Oakleigh Dr. Las Vegas, NV 89110 Office 702-848-1693 Cell, Whats App, Signal 307-250-1156 PREFERRED E-mail markttc@msn.com Website: myexclusiveadventures.com Skype: markhyhunter Check us out on https://www.facebook.com/pages...ures/627027353990716 | |||
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Ar you have a pm I am back from a long Hiatus... or whatever. Take care. smallfry | |||
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Of course we could always do an apples to apples comparison and add in some data 1) Compare a 185 grain bullet and velocity in both cartridges 338-06 2925 fps 340 Weatherby 3250 fps 2) Add in wind drift for a 20 mph wind @ 400 yards 338-06 30.6 inches 340 Weatherby 26.3 inches A difference of 4.3 inches Then apply a little practicality and ask: How many people can discern the difference of 4.3 inches in hold at 400 yards? How many people will actually take a 400 yard shot in a 20 mph full value wind? or we could simply re-title the post "I like the 340 Weatherby and don't like the 338-06" Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I agree, this sums up the subject perfectly. | |||
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Agree with previous posts, however, I would use a .300WM and not fret. Elk are not hard to kill if the bullet is in the lungs or heart. Wind is a bigger issue, just knowing where to hold. Practicing will make that apparent. The .338 or .340 are fine, just more than needed and are hard to practice with due to expense of ammo and recoil. | |||
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308 Win, 165: 2,700  | |||
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4.3 inches at 400 yards is huge IMO. However, the real issue is the drift per mile per hour. The .338-06 drifts 1.53 inches per mile of wind, which assuming the rifle/shooter can shoot 4 inch groups at 400 yards means you have 4 inches of allowable wind error (assuming a 12 inch vital area), which translates into an allowable wind error of 2.6 mph. The .340 drifts 1.315 inches per mile of wind, meaning you must estimate the wind within 3 mph. It may seem there is no practical difference, but as a guy who shoot LR all the time (just got back from shooting my Edge and Lapua at 800 and 1200 yards), every little bit counts. That said, if the .338-06 shoots 1 MOA and the .340 can only muster 2 MOA, the 06 wins hands down, as the allowable wind error for the .340 drops to 1.52 mph, demonstrating why I take accuracy all day long over velocity. But again, given a choice, give me a .338 Edge or Lapua if I have to shoot at LR (400 yards isn't all that long IMO). | |||
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Another AZ Writer. For 4.3 inches to be huge, you have to be able to discern 4.3 inches of difference. What I am referring to is if the elk is facing to the right and the wind is coming from the right you have to be able to tell I am holding 26 inches off the shoulder versus 30 inches off the shoulder that is an extremely difficult task even with a 10x scope. Can this be done with specialized equipment?, sure, but that is not the OP implies because nobody would build a special purpose long range rifle in 338-06. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue. What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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I would use the 340 wby but only because I am familiar with mine. I wouldn’t be shooting 185 out of it though that’s for sure. Really a 270 with a 140gr would I’d pick over both. I am back from a long Hiatus... or whatever. Take care. smallfry | |||
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just walk another 1-200 yds closer before shooting it. your gonna have to anyway. you guy's are making my [8 mauser] Elk rifle start to feel inadequate. | |||
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Ive hunted elk with many different calibers, and the elk where I hunt today are wilder and smarter than yesterdays elk I hunted. today I hunt elk in the huge Owhyee desert in Idaho and shots can be 400 to 500 yards and more if your into long range stuff.. After years starting with the 25-35, in my youth, all the way up to the 300 H&H and Win mag. Observing most caliber in between, I settled on the .338 Win. and Ive shot probably a dozen elk with that caliber, and its performed at 400 yards give or take 50 yards or so over the years and In my opinnion it is the perfect elk rifle for me...My love of the 338 caliver itself began with the 35 Whelen to the 338-06, to the 338-06 IMP, to the .338 Win..I didn't care for the .340 Wby mostly because fo the rifles themselves and they do recoil a bit more than I cared for.. There are lots of suitable 400 yard elk calibers such as the 7 mag. 300 mags, and I have used the 30-06 at those ranges and it worked but thinking back I had to shoot them two or three times at long ranges?? I still use it on cow hunts at shorter ranges..Id rather be over gunned than underguned any day, but only if one can handle the recoil.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I sincerely hope that statement was a joke right? Those are the comments I expect to hear from somebody that has never hunted elk or never filled an elk tag. There are plenty of times when just walking closer is not an option, like when you are spotting them across a canyon or they are calmly walking out at a speed that you can't cover ground at. There are plenty of times when a 400 yard shot is all you have and if you've practiced that shot and the elk are cooperative enough and you can find a field rest and calm your breathing then you can easily make that shot. Other times a 50 yard shot can be impossible if the elk aren't cooperating... By the way your 8mm Mauser is plenty of gun for a 400 yard kill on elk IF it is a shot you practice. | |||
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26 inches is a 6.5 MOA hold - if you have a reticle with MOA wind hash marks you can discern 4 inches at 400 yards but in my experience once wind holds exceed 4 MOA it gets pretty tough although 6.5 at 400 is a lot easier than 6.5 at 800. | |||
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That is exactly what I say to myself every time that I see one of those across canyon or canyons shots on the outdoor channel shows. I practice almost weekly throughout the year at our 430 yard range, and of the 35 elk tags that I have punched, the only elk that I have ever shot at at over 400 yards was my first one back when I didn't know how to hunt elk. Even the last two bulls that I shot with my .300 Weatherby, I spotted at 300+ yards, and shot at less than 200. NRA Endowment Life Member | |||
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I agree, hold over is a snap, reading the wind is where misses become the norm..at least for me. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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Right answer is a 225-275 gr bullet in the 340 WBY "Evil is powerless if the good are unafraid" -- Ronald Reagan "Ignorance of The People gives strength to totalitarians." Want to make just about anything work better? Keep the government as far away from it as possible, then step back and behold the wonderment and goodness. | |||
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wind factor being most important | |||
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I voted...I was looking for the 340 or 33 nosler with a 265 LRX at 2850fps...that would be the right answer....  DRSS Member | |||
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I didn't vote. The last elk I shot was at 430 yards with a .300 WM and a 180 gr Hornady Interlock. He took 5 steps and fell over. Bullet placement. Guns and hunting | |||
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I can agree with a lot of what you say but there are times when you aren't going to walk a hundred yards closer as easy as you make it sound. I also like the accusation that if you can't get closer you don't know how to hunt elk.... basically that is what is being inferred. I could show many of you places where you are not going to close the distance on elk and if you have practiced and the wind is favorable why would you pass up a 400-450 yard shot that you practice monthly and sometimes weekly? I'm not advocating everyone take "pot shots" at 400 yards for some that is an impossible feat for others it is a chip shot. For what it's worth I have shot one elk over 400 yards I put 2 shots in him as fast as you can run the bolt and shoot and he tipped over. (30/06 180 grain Sierra) and if I think about all the elk I've killed and actually averaged the shot distance it would be about 170 yards. 25 yards is the closest. What I think is ridiculous is that we as hunters hunt in a variety of different elk country, some places close shots are the norm, other places will take you half the day to get within range of elk if you sight them at 800 yards and by then they have grazed into the next county, yet here we bicker about "just walk closer" as if I didn't "F'n" think of that!...And some are so closed minded they can't think of a situation where you can't just walk closer.... That screams to me of someone who has never seen the same country that I hunt or has never hunted Elk. Just sayin... | |||
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In a strong wind I would not shoot at an elk or anything living at 400 yds. The chances of a gut shot are just too great. I' d much rather end the season with an unfilled tag, then lose a wounded animal. Getting close enough to have a 95% confidence of a shoulder/lung shot is just part of the challenge that makes hunting enjoyable to me. That said, a 300 WM with 180 gr properly constructed bullet is all the elk medicine anyone should need IMO. BH63 Hunting buff is better than sex! | |||
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Snellstrom, Very true! Different regions dictate different hunting tactics/skills. When living in Western Wyoming, I don’t recall a shot over 200 to 300 yards. Most shots were under 100 yards. Now, living in north-central Wyoming, I’ve only had two shots under 300 yards. I would much prefer all shots at less than 50 yards, but you work with what you are offered! memtb You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel | |||
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/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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I'll add to the chorus of folks who have already said: With high velocity cartridges, turrets or simple hold-over, it's super easy to hit something at 400 yards IF THE SITUATION IS NEAR PERFECT AND THE SHOOTER IS VERY SKILLED BUT NOT SO EASY IN ANYTHING OVER 10 MPH WIND. A 20 mph wind would have me passing the shot even with my new-fangled, high BC, high velocity, heavy bullet, long-ranger!!! It's still hunting an animal and that's totally different than blasting away at steel or paper. Both are fun but one should treat them differently. With that said, either load would work great if the bullet placement is correct. Zeke | |||
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Two things come to mind on this thread, Snellstorm is right the 8x57 is a fine elk rifle and a twin to our 30-06 when properly loaded so its a 400 yard elk rifle.. The other thing is we are shooting at elk to far away these days, most of the dead elk found after hunting season is for that reason alone.. My last three elk with my .338 were 300 to 375 yards give or take 25 yards..thats streatching it IMO...300 should be everyones limit IMO..shame on me and shame on us.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I've shot 24 elk over the last 26 years, never took a shot over 250 yards or so. If they are farther away than that I get closer or let them go. The much higher likelihood of wounding an elk and losing it trumps any sense of entitlement I may have for shooting at longer ranges. | |||
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Hitting the elk in the right place will always be much more important that what load you use. Pick a favorite combo and practice with it as much as possible. My last two elk were shot with a 308 win and 165 Sierra Boat tail Gamekings. One a SP and the other a HP. They kill elk just fine. I do think about going up in power sometimes. That 8mm Mauser looks cool. -------------------- THANOS WAS RIGHT! | |||
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By the way, my Lapua drifts 3 MOA in a 20 mph wind at 400 - half the drift of above loads. My .300 RUMS drift only slightly more. Totally doable. On the other hand, not sure that is a reason to lug a rifle heavier than my .338 WM... | |||
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Ever been hunting and heard a volley of shots, then a pause while the guy reloads, then another volley of shots. Possibly the animal was within a shootable range for the first couple of shots, but most likely the animal was just too far away. Then all shots after that were nothing more than "hail Mary's" and there is probably a wounded animal on the other side of the canyon that won't be recovered. NRA Endowment Life Member | |||
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Like I posted earlier, every time that I see one of those 800 yard or across canyon shots on the outdoor channel shows, that screams to me of someone who either has no respect for the game animal that they are shooting at and/or they care more about getting a "great" long range kill shot for their show or they are just pushing their long range shooting products. I don't know what country Snellstrom hunts elk in, but I started hunting elk in northwestern Colorado back in 1966 when I lived there. I continued to kill an elk there every year until I moved to Montana in 1975. Since moving to Montana, I've killed an elk every year that I've hunted them. I've also been fortunate enough to have hunted all of Montana's big game species from pronghorn in the eastern plains to bighorn rams and mountain goats at or above timberline, and deer, elk, bears, and moose in between. And other than my first elk back in 1966 where I admitted that I didn't know how to hunt elk and I started shooting at him at a distance far enough away that my front sight bead completely covered him, I have NEVER encountered a situation where I couldn't just walk closer. But then I am closed minded enough that I would rather go home with an un-punched tag in my pocket than to try an "iffy" shot at an elk that is too far away and have him run off wounded. NRA Endowment Life Member | |||
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it was a bit tongue in cheek. my deer was at 400yds this last fall, I happened to have the 0-6 with me at the time [shrug] I don't like shooting that far but it was a clean standing shot and I had a bit of a rest. I could have just as easily had a 257,25-06,308,the 8 mauser or one of the 7 mauser's along. I feel a lot more comfortable shooting one of them than I ever would shooting a 340 weatherby at any distance. I get chances at big game animals where I live here in Idaho, so I have the ability to go home empty handed and try again tomorrow or next year without it costing me 10-G. | |||
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I elk hunt with Snellstrom Without dropping to much info on our spot it is wide open with visibility in miles not yards ________________________________________________ Maker of The Frankenstud Sling Keeper Proudly made in the USA Acepting all forms of payment | |||
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This discussion makes me wonder how seeing a 5x5 bull elk killed at right at 500 yards with a .270 using a 150 grain Nosler Partition actually happened? Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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