where do most of you place shots on deer sized game. ive always been taught to shoot just behind the shoulder. so far this has worked out well for me. ive inadvertantly shoulder shot a couple deer and have had to look for those. every deer ive shot behind the shoulder and it was a straight shot through has been drt. just wanted to see what most people do. my hunting rifle was 270 win and is now 270wsm. ive always shot the nosler ballistic tips.

It really don't make much difference what cartridge you use or what bullet you use....if one puts the bullet solidly in the rib cage he has venison for dinner. In fact....if one actually hits the deer solidly he has venison.

I try to hold the crosshairs about three inches behind the front shoulder and about 1/2 the depth of the deer.....1/2 as it makes for a bigger target. Overwhelmingly the deer are DRT!

there's this little round target as he's running away

For me it depends on the situation. Usually put it thru the lungs, behind the shoulder. Destroys no meat and at most the deer will do its 50-100 yd "death run".

If conditions are such that having it run a ways is a problem, a high shoulder shot puts them right down.

quote:

Originally posted by olarmy:
For me it depends on the situation. Usually put it thru the lungs, behind the shoulder. Destroys no meat and at most the deer will do its 50-100 yd "death run".

If conditions are such that having it run a ways is a problem, a high shoulder shot puts them right down.

+1

I tend to double-lung them for meat just behind the shoulder, not as far back as another poster above for fear of damaging the liver or puncturing the rumen but follow the line of the leg up and shoot at the point of the elbow.

This is assuming a truly broadside deer, something that I confess to not having encountered very often.

In dense forestry, where a deer running off would be inconvenient, the high Shoulder shot, in line with the centre of the foreleg and a touch over halfway up will drop most UK deer, with my 06 at least, like a ton of bricks.

This is assuming once again that the deer is broadside.

If it is not one shoots for the same internal target as on the broadside shot but adjusted for the external aimpoint.

The Deer Commission for Scotland's website explains it better than I do. http://www.bestpracticeguides....ing_shotplace02.aspx

Different sized deer need a different approach, 3 inches behind the shoulder on a even slightly quartering 100 pound deer is a gutshot in our book rather than a thoracic shot, on a moose however it's probably still a heart shot!

When stand hunting, with an improvised rest, I prefer to shoot them in the high neck and fracture the cervical spine. I also do this at close range and have had excellent results.

For most situations, I hold tight to the rear of the shoulder, one-third up the body and that double lungs them. For quartering shots, I hold for the offside shoulder and hit both lungs.

I find that the .270Win., .280Rem. give me the fastest kills with these placements and prefer these to any other rounds for deer and, YES, they DO work very well on Elk and Moose, with the right bullet. Sorry, couldn't resist....... mea culpa!

Right here for a heart shot, bow or gun.



I generally aim a tad higher with a rifle, but the pictured deer was a front of heart hit 1"-2" back from the aorta.

Whether to shoot "just behind the shoulder" or "on the shoulder" depends entirely on what angle the animal presents. The point is not to hit at a certain place on the deer's exterior, but to hit certain internal organs.

On a classic 90-degree broadside shot, "just behind the shoulder" works well and will hit either the heart, the lungs, or some of both. If the deer is quartering toward you, then "on the shoulder" is the proper point of aim. When quatering away, somewhat rearward of "just behind the shoulder" is appropriate (some properly characterize this hold as "shooting for the far shoulder").

As for the importance of the shoulder itself as a "vital" organ, well, it ain't and shooting it is pretty meaningless. It is an appendage so marginally connected to the body that you can cut it off with a small pocket knife. A deer can run faster with three legs than you can with two. And further, too -- in fact it can run an unlimited distance on three legs. Destroying the shoulder has no immediate effect on the deer's lifespan. So, the only thing that shooting the shoulder (whether the near one or far one) means is that it is in front of or behind the vital organs you seek to interrupt.

By the way, on long shots when both accuracy and trajectory may be in question, I like to shoot for midway of the animal vertically. With this hold a low shot hits the heart, a high shot hits the spine, and a dead-on shot hits lungs.

the reason i asked this ? was i hunt with a few guys that shoot only for the shoulder no matter what. they think that if they take out the animals leg it won't be running. i think and have had the opposite happen. ive had one insance where a deer was quartering away i nicked a lung and destroyed the opposite shoulder the deer ran a good 150yds before going down.

Print out the deer clock in the link I gave and show them.

It should be all the evidence you need with reasonable men.

Heart/lungs, unless I'm testing bullets. Then I wait until they are facing me directly and put it square in the chest. Only way I have found that a WT will keep quality bullets in the cavity.

The folks that advocate busting a shoulder as the straight road to Jeruselem have never seen how much ground a three legged deer can cover. Nor how far they can run with one of those cyberspace "perfect" heart shots.

And too, how the deer is oriented toward or away from you counts for a lot.

My tag line in another forum sez it all: "aim for the exit hole". Visualize where the bullet is gonna come out and what is it gonna hit whilst in transit?

with a scope
crosshair splits the front legs, aim 1/3 of the way up .. and if possible, aim for the opposite shoulder ...

I hunt pigs more than deer, and a pigs clockworks are a bit forward .. behind the shuold is in the guts ..

i like big guns, with moderately moving bullets .. less blood shot meat, imho

if the shot is PERFECT i will take a neck or head shot on deer .. more often on pigs as the head is larger AND not as motile

quote:

As for the importance of the shoulder itself as a "vital" organ, well, it ain't and shooting it is pretty meaningless.

I find myself in agreement with this in my own inexperienced way.

Where do you aim for a "shoulder" shot, exactly, and what is it the bullet hits that results in a fast death?

I appreciate that the object for many is to take the front legs out from under the deer and put it down without it running on. However, when they show me where they aim it is up the front of the front leg and maybe half way up, or slightly more, the body. Based upon my fairly limited knowledge of biology there is no question that this probably disrupts a lot of the muscles around the shoulder area and perhaps hits some blood vessels at the top of the heart or the front of the lungs but I don't see it being much better than a standard heart/lung shot, in fact shoot a bit forward and it could be much worse.

Is it possible that those people getting great results with the "shoulder" shot are actually shooting a bit higher than half way up and breaking the spine behind the shoulder blade? This is the only way I can imagine a "shoulder" shot achieving consistent instant drops from a deer, but maybe I am overlooking something important.

the guys that shoot shoulder that i hunt with we end up looking for alot of deer. and several have not been found. to date (nock on wood) ive not lost a deer. ive had a couple that where not good quartering away shots that ive had to look for and then one that was quartering to me that stepped towards me when i shot and the bullet entered infront of the shoulder and came out the rib cage it ran a little ways but was still found.

I have killed scores of Nebraska size deer with a 270 Win. with point of the shoulder & behind the shoulder shots and they were all DRT.

Maybe your just pushing you NBT's beyond their performance level. I have used them and their predecessor as well as Sierra, Hornady and now the premium's from those companies as will as triple shock, Swift's etc. and the obvious answer is the better made bullets work best but the "traditional" bullets get the job done very well at appropriate velocity.

caorach- The classic shoulder shot on deer is 1/2-1/3 down from the top of the back, hitting the shoulder blade, taking top of lungs and at the very least shocking the spine. The spinal column dips lower in the chest at the shoulder blades, and a hit in there sends bone/bullet fagments through the lungs and shoulder meat. It is a shot that gives a definite reaction from the deer, and usually ruins some meat.

Hitting on or just behind the opposite shoulder is good for basing an aiming point, but doesn't drop an animal like hitting the near side shoulder does, and knocking those fragments into the heart/lungs/spine.

Matters not where you hit the deer. Just hit it. If it doesn't die you just need a bigger caliber. LOL

quote:

Originally posted by dave-t:
Right here for a heart shot, bow or gun.



I generally aim a tad higher with a rifle, but the pictured deer was a front of heart hit 1"-2" back from the aorta.

Thats a good shot

I put the vertical wire between the front legs and the horizontal wire about half way up, it works from any angle.

quote:

Originally posted by Jim C. <><:
I put the vertical wire between the front legs and the horizontal wire about half way up, it works from any angle.

This is very simple, sound, and anatomically correct. Better advice can not be provided.

That said, I usually try to break a shoulder if I can and still hit the vitals.

Wes

quote:

That said, I usually try to break a shoulder if I can and still hit the vitals.

I like that too, and my sighting method accomplishes it on a broadside shot.

I do a lot of hunting from a portable tree stands and in the deep woods my shots are rarely as long as 50 yards. The down angle on those shots often precudes a leg breaking shot but the "system" still insures clean kills.

Part of the advantage of the sytem is that I have trained myself to focus on that point on any deer I see, including photos and on TV. When the opportunity arrives I don't have to think about anything, my eye goes to my aim point and the crosswires follow. When the "X" hits the spot, the trigger is pulled without thought. Dead deer.

Rarely DRT but they never go more than 50 yards in the 3-4 seconds it takes them to run that far. And they do the same thing no matter what I use, .243, 308, 7 mag, 30-06, .35 Rem or an arrow.

Heart/lungs.

Arrow - dead in 15 seconds

Bullet - dead in 20 seconds

On deer I, regardless of the angle, visualise a soccor ball between the fronlegs against the brisket and simply put the bullet through that. I do not do Texas heart shots though. I will, if I have a good rest and shooting position, use a neck shot if the range is reasonable and the deer is standing still.

I have lost a deer and came close to losing a couple more with behind the shoulder shots in the thick rain forest of the PNW. Deer such shot can indeed go at least 100 yards before lying down and most often they go into heavy cover. The heavy rains can quickly wash away any sign. Best to drop them as quick as possible. Now in Eastern Oregon and more open country You can most often watch the lung shot deer and see where it goes and where it lays down. Of course tracking in snow is fairly easy. Still, I prefer the heart shot.

Larry Gibson

quote:

Originally posted by 500 Fan:
I have killed scores of Nebraska size deer with a 270 Win. with point of the shoulder & behind the shoulder shots and they were all DRT.

Maybe your just pushing you NBT's beyond their performance level. I have used them and their predecessor as well as Sierra, Hornady and now the premium's from those companies as will as triple shock, Swift's etc. and the obvious answer is the better made bullets work best but the "traditional" bullets get the job done very well at appropriate velocity.

it may have came across wrong but ive had no problem with the nbts. i was just stating that ive had to look for a couple deer but the farthest so far has been maybe 150yds from where i shot it the other 2 where 100 or less. all the others have been drt. the ones ive had to look for just where not perfect shots.

quote:

Originally posted by Howard:
Matters not where you hit the deer. Just hit it. If it doesn't die you just need a bigger caliber. LOL

Yeah, seen too many of that type of hunter in the field. Just aim anywhere & hope the deer goes down, sad. Me, I like the high shoulder shot too, works well on any game if you use a good bullet.

I prefer "Low" through both shoulder shots with a nice Exit. Low helps gets two Blood Trails started quicker(if needed), than a higher shot. Reason being, the higher the holes, the more "cavity" there is to hold the Blood and keep it inside.

Also like a shot directly on the Withers. The higher you are, the easier this shot is and it drops them immediately right where they are standing 100% of the time.

The Chest shot is OK, but not as good as the other two for me.

We strongly discourage anyone attempting Head and Neck shots who Hunts with us because it is a sure sign of a total Rookie. They really do not understand how the Deer move and the greatly increased odds of Wounding vs. Killing.

Don't like Inadequate Carridges nor Inadequate Bullets that do not make Exits. It is hard enough finding Deer that have been hit with well placed shots, but still manage to run a short distance before dropping in either dense understory or out into a 4' tall Bean Field.

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:We strongly discourage

We? Are there more than one of you there Hot Core?

An old friend of mine, shot a downloaded 7Rem. with 140NPs, due to a shoulder injury; he started actively hunting as a boy in the WWII years and hunted the "East Kootenays" and the "Alaska Highway" in the fabulous days of the late '40s, the '50s and the early '60s. He then started hunting the Queen Charlottes and one can shoot lot of deer there.

He was a "one rifle" man and always killed for meat as he grew up in "the Depression", had a large family and worked in Vancouver, BC's major gunstore. He shot scores of BC game animals with one, properly placed neck shot and prefered this to save edible meat.

But, he was a real hunter, a good, disciplined shot and knew his game from experience.....his partner and "boss" in the gunstore once shot a 6pt. Elk at "Sheep Mountain Lookout" near Elko, BC, and killed it stonedead, down right there with a single shot from a .270Win. Well, some can, some DO and then there are others who, well, you know.......

I have killed a few dozen BC deer and probably ten with neckshots and never had a problem, but, I hunt the wilderness of BC and not tame drugged deer in fenced fields.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:
I prefer "Low" through both shoulder shots with a nice Exit. Low helps gets two Blood Trails started quicker(if needed), than a higher shot. Reason being, the higher the holes, the more "cavity" there is to hold the Blood and keep it inside.

Also like a shot directly on the Withers. The higher you are, the easier this shot is and it drops them immediately right where they are standing 100% of the time.

The Chest shot is OK, but not as good as the other two for me.

We strongly discourage anyone attempting Head and Neck shots who Hunts with us because it is a sure sign of a total Rookie. They really do not understand how the Deer move and the greatly increased odds of Wounding vs. Killing.

Don't like Inadequate Carridges nor Inadequate Bullets that do not make Exits. It is hard enough finding Deer that have been hit with well placed shots, but still manage to run a short distance before dropping in either dense understory or out into a 4' tall Bean Field.

Good Hunting and clean 1-shot Kills.

x2

i would trade a neck roast for backstrap, you just need to learn how to find the neck joints and how to use your knife,so its behind the shoulder for me on sitka blacktail,a little above centerline disrupts nervous system , a little lower and they run a little way 30 yds or so and can be a pain to find, doesnt matter the caliber they will still run .338 or 416. headshots make for a lot of starving deer with no teeth or jaws

No matter the situation, I always try to visualize the offside shoulder as mentioned above.

I have found though my years that transversing the chest cavity from most directions will do in just about any critter in short order. Breaking the junction of the neck and shoulders will drop them instantly in most cases as well.

I've always shot there also but the black bear has a big bone right there so for them i shot for the heart. When i go hunting i reshearh the animal i am hunting.

quote:

shot placement

Being deer are 3-dimensional, I use the proven technique of aiming for the exit to aid my ability of sending the projectile through the vitals when faced with differing shot presentations. If possible, I tend to prefer shooting through the lungs over the heart to avoid damaging the heart, as it is too large a piece of good meat to waste. I also tend to avoid certain cartridges that damage excessive meat when doing so.

Best

I like that volley ball technique.Guess that's what I used without knowing it. Did use a lot of head neck shots on game moving away. Am guilty of doing a Texas heart shot. Perfect anal entry angled upwards shattering the spine. Non of the bullet reached the chest cavity. roger

I usually shoot them in the neck on the third jump. ONE. TWO. BANG.

Perhaps it will help to look at a deer's anatomy. This is the shot I practice and prefer : taking out the aorta knot. No heavy bones are hit (small exit hole) and it generally kills on the spot (as a bonus, the bullet will traverse only soft tissue, with very little venison damage).

Notice that the aiming point is significantly more forward and higher than you're used to.
This is how a Roedeer's heart looks afterwards. To enhance visibility, I slipped a piece of white paper behind the bullet hole at the base of the aorta. This shot is supposed to cut off blood flow to the brain at once, inducing immediate coma. In this case, the animal was dead before hitting the ground

Good illustrations, Andre. Folks seem not to realize that as the deer's posture changes, the hold to hit the X changes. Or they don't shoot enough to have confidence in their ability to hit a spot on the deer and just shoot for the big middle of the chest.

Absolutely Wasbeeman, perspective does vary according to aiming angle. As always a pic is better than words :

I've always heard, if you shoot a magnum.... about any old place will do...