Why is it that when I think about that "once in a lifetime" mule deer hunt, I question the adequacy of my caliber. I have hunted deer and elk my whole life with a 06/308/270 with no problems, but when I think about this mysterious hunt of a lifetime, I have a need to purchase a .300 mag? This was further enforced this weekend at the hunt expo, when I was asked a guide what rifle he would choose. He said “the one I can shoot the best” I then asked what he would take, he said “the magnum”. I then asked if he can shoot his mag better than the non-mag and he said no. So why is it we feel so uncomfortable or inadequate hunting with a gun we can shoot better, on that proverbial “hunt of a lifetime”?

Take the 06 or 270 practice and have a great trip. A 300wmag will not kill a mule deer any deader.

You are better off with a 308 that you can shoot good, and know where it hits at a distance than with a 300 Mag taht you have not done a lot of shooting with at longer ranges.

However if you can shoot the 300 Mag as good as you 308, then it gives you an extra 100 yards or so of effective range, depending on what loads you choose

Take a look at say the Federal factory ammo guide. Some 308 loads have as much energy at 500 yards as some 300 Mag loads.

Once you start shooting at the longer ranges the BC of the bullet is very important, as is retained velocity, and bullet construction so you still get some good expansion.

quote:

So why is it we feel so uncomfortable or inadequate hunting with a gun we can shoot better, on that proverbial “hunt of a lifetime”?

Goodness. I've never felt there was anything in this hemisphere I couldn't take with my .30-06.

Such a Problem ? roger

Muley's are not that tough. Take your pick of the 3 you have.

take your 270, loaded with 110gr barnes ttsx, about -.07 off the rifling ....

Gun writers,salesmen.guides
Will try to convince you "your rifle is'nt good enough" To sell guns. And it works on 99% of the people.

Yours is a better reason to buy a new gun than many I've heard. It is probably a good enough reason that a wife would even be convinced that a new gun is in order.

However, to put your mind at ease, consider the ballistics of Hornady Premium ammo in the 300 and the 270--there's not that much difference. At 500 yards the .270 shooting a 140 gr SST has a velocity of 2187 and the energy is 1487! The 300 Win Mag at 500 yds shooting a 150 gr SST has a velocity of only 2177 and the energy is 1578. The trajectories of the two are not that much different either. With both zeroed at 200 yds, the .270 is -35.4" at 500 yds and the .300 is -33.4"

Your .270 is more than adequate for the task.

The only reason to go from a .30-06 to a .300mag is to up the bullet weight while maintaining higher velocities.

Shooting a 150 or even a 180gr bullet out of a .300mag is superfulous. The .300 H&H and Wby were designed to shoot 200-220gr bullets regardless of what American factory ammo companies loads them for.

I prefer the .300H&H, it feeds better, has more alternatives for handloading, and loves heavier bullets.

So if you want a rifle that performs with the heavier bullets, then go to a .300mag. Otherwise, save your money and shoot the -06.

Personally, if you must go with a magnum, I'd go with a 7mag shooting 160 grain Accubonds. The recoil will be much like your 270 or 30-06, flat shooting and deadly at longer ranges. In my experience, the 7mag is one of the more manageable rifle cartridges out there.

The only 300 that I've owned was a 300 wby and the recoil made the gun unshootable.

I doubt you will shoot enough deer in your lifetime to notice the difference in killing power on deer betweeen a 270 and a 300mag, if there even is any.

I think the psychology of a once-in-a-lifetime hunt encourages people to mentally masterbate about increasing their odds of success to the point that they consider a lot of things, including a newer/better/longer range gun. Truth is, a once-in-a-lifetime hunt usually ends up being so fun its just the opposite. So the premise is false to begin with.

But...they are great excuses to get more stuff. If you want, you can write down a list of things to prioritize like a new/better scope for the existing rifle, better/more appropriate clothes, better binos (the more animals you can find betters your odds much more than caliber concerns) or best of all, put that money down on your next once-in-a-lifetime hunt!

I think your second guessing your self, and the guide you talked to reconfirmed it by saying he would take a magnum that he doesn't shoot as well and other non magnum guns big enough for the task at hand. If you've been hunting elk all your life, think about it, mule deer are NOT bigger than elk, take your favorite elk rifle. The one question I would have asked is, what is the average, and longest shot you could expect to have to make where you will be hunting.

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Originally posted by ramrod340:
Take the 06 or 270 practice and have a great trip. A 300wmag will not kill a mule deer any deader.

I used a 300wm for 14 yrs, as my only big game rifle. I added a .257Roberts and have used it for 3 seasons. There is no difference in effectivness on deer. Bigger ain't always better, especially if you are taking good shots at decent angles.

I tend to look at things a bit differently though. I like the idea of a rifle that has been here, there, and everywhere with me, and gets the job done, more than a "golf bag" full of clubs/rifles that only do one limited job.

Heresy for this forum I know, but that is the way I think about it. I have faith in 'ol reliable'.

quote:

Originally posted by dave-t:
I used a 300wm for 14 yrs, as my only big game rifle. I added a .257Roberts and have used it for 3 seasons. There is no difference in effectivness on deer. Bigger ain't always better, especially if you are taking good shots at decent angles.

I tend to look at things a bit differently though. I like the idea of a rifle that has been here, there, and everywhere with me, and gets the job done, more than a "golf bag" full of clubs/rifles that only do one limited job.

Heresy for this forum I know, but that is the way I think about it. I have faith in 'ol reliable'.

I bet that leaves you more money to go hunting

I've already bought too many rifles recently. I'm not buying anything for at least 5 years. I'm going to concentrate on hunting instead of collecting.

There's no reason why you can't shoot the mag as well as any of the other choices you have. As just about everyone has said, practice, practice, practice.
Of your other three choices, I'd pick the '06.

I have been involved in many threads where the adequacy of a .223 or even a .243 was debated. I can somewhat understand a person that has not been there done that and is strictly basing their opinion on paper theory and gun counter salesmans talk might falsely think they would give poor results. But now a 30-06 did I read that correctly a 30-06 or a .308 or a .270 being questioned??? Hell we need to run em down with an armor plated 18 wheeler. The .300 mag is going to require about half again as much powder as the 30-06 and your shoulder is going to feel it more than the deer will. The 18 wheeler wont recoil.

John, all the above being said, I have another view. If I'm hunting Whitetails on my property, I would consider a "light" caliber. I can hunt there whenever I want, and if a particular Deer doesn't offer me a clean broadside shot with my 243 or 257 Roberts, I can just try again tomorrow. But on a hunt that I rarely do, and may never do again, where I incur the expense of travel, lodging, permits, tags, and an outfitter or PH, I want to be able to capitalize on any opportunity the hunt provides me. If that's a sharp quartering-away shot at 300 yards on the Sonoran Mulie of a lifetime, so be it. I use bigger calibers with enough bullet weight to maintain energy and penetration on the toughest of shots. I'd much rather have a post-hunt conversation about meat damage than about a poor blood trail that wandered off into nowhere.

quote:

Originally posted by Jon Beutler:
Why is it that when I think about that "once in a lifetime" mule deer hunt, I question the adequacy of my caliber. I have hunted deer and elk my whole life with a 06/308/270 with no problems, but when I think about this mysterious hunt of a lifetime, I have a need to purchase a .300 mag?

I'd take whatever I shot best, if there was a budget question. If you're tempted by a new rifle, it's a separate question. One year there was a heavy-barreled 243 that called to me from the rack, and I hauled it straight to the gunsmith to become a 6mm-284. No regrets, but it took three years of fiddling to make it into my best shooter...

quote:

Originally posted by Jon Beutler:
Why is it that when I think about that "once in a lifetime" mule deer hunt, I question the adequacy of my caliber. I have hunted deer and elk my whole life with a 06/308/270 with no problems, but when I think about this mysterious hunt of a lifetime, I have a need to purchase a .300 mag? This was further enforced this weekend at the hunt expo, when I was asked a guide what rifle he would choose. He said “the one I can shoot the best” I then asked what he would take, he said “the magnum”. I then asked if he can shoot his mag better than the non-mag and he said no. So why is it we feel so uncomfortable or inadequate hunting with a gun we can shoot better, on that proverbial “hunt of a lifetime”?

I've killed Elk with both the 30-06 and the 300 win and I find them both to be abotu equal in their ability to put Elk on the ground. IMHO&E the bullet choice is far more important than which caliber is best

naw that 06 is just an antiquated piece of whatever. what is need is a gold and ruby encrusted 8.77946mm remchester mangalum loaded with depleted uranium bullets shoved by 223.7 grains of blasto #2. combined with one of the new 100 mm 44x scopes with the electronic aiming devices the rig is guaranteed to kill a deer at distances of 50 yards

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
naw that 06 is just an antiquated piece of whatever. what is need is a gold and ruby encrusted 8.77946mm remchester mangalum loaded with depleted uranium bullets shoved by 223.7 grains of blasto #2. combined with one of the new 100 mm 44x scopes with the electronic aiming devices the rig is guaranteed to kill a deer at distances of 50 yards

Who sells this can you post a link. I think I need one.

Jon:
As was mentioned above, it looks as if you're second guessing yourself. DON'T!!
Although I've never hunted nor shot a mule deer, I have taken both caribou and sheep with my .270 Win., this over about a 40 year time frame here in Ak. While I do use my .338 for moose, we've had guys in our camp and down river from us that use .30-06's as well.
My .270 has worked very well on all the game I've tried to take with it and the guys that use the '06 for moose haven't had a problem either.
Take the rifle you shoot the best and have the most confidence in and spend lottsa time on the range. For my .270, I load a 150 Partition to about 2930 fps. The rifles you have will work just fine. Now go forth, etc....
Bear in Fairbanks

i think hot core sells them

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
John, all the above being said, I have another view. If I'm hunting Whitetails on my property, I would consider a "light" caliber. I can hunt there whenever I want, and if a particular Deer doesn't offer me a clean broadside shot with my 243 or 257 Roberts, I can just try again tomorrow. But on a hunt that I rarely do, and may never do again, where I incur the expense of travel, lodging, permits, tags, and an outfitter or PH, I want to be able to capitalize on any opportunity the hunt provides me. If that's a sharp quartering-away shot at 300 yards on the Sonoran Mulie of a lifetime, so be it. I use bigger calibers with enough bullet weight to maintain energy and penetration on the toughest of shots. I'd much rather have a post-hunt conversation about meat damage than about a poor blood trail that wandered off into nowhere.

+1

I would take what ever I felt like shooting the deer with. I have shot lots of them with every thing from a 22lf to my 416 taylor. Why because I could.


When I buy a new rifle/caliber I normmaly try and kill something with it. We have been able to shoot 5 or 6 deer a year in wis for the past 20 years gives one a great change to try and use something differant.

what I perfer now days is a bit heavy for cailber bullet traveling at least 2300fps. Not to say my 44 mag and 45-70 hasn't worked.

But then we have killed a lot of deer with a 357 max with 158gr at 2150.

If I were doing a mule deer hunt today dam so many to chose from most likely one of my 06's or maybe my 300wm or my newest 270 haven't killed a thing with that yet.

Hell they would all work just fine I guess I would have to wait untill I walked out the door with the rifle and ammo to know

I shoot them all well.

There isn't a deer on the planet that can't be cleanly killed with any of those 3 cartridges. Even with a less than ideal shot angle, you'll have no trouble killing any mule deer out there.

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Originally posted by wwjmbd:

quote:

Originally posted by butchloc:
naw that 06 is just an antiquated piece of whatever. what is need is a gold and ruby encrusted 8.77946mm remchester mangalum loaded with depleted uranium bullets shoved by 223.7 grains of blasto #2. combined with one of the new 100 mm 44x scopes with the electronic aiming devices the rig is guaranteed to kill a deer at distances of 50 yards

Who sells this can you post a link. I think I need one.

quote:

By Butch: i think hot core sells them

The Great Armchair Bawana bought the last one available. I just relabeled it as a 338Fed!(Rumor has it he won't make 9-months without another Rifle purchase. )

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Originally posted by wasbeeman:

quote:

Originally posted by Biebs:
John, all the above being said, I have another view. If I'm hunting Whitetails on my property, I would consider a "light" caliber. I can hunt there whenever I want, and if a particular Deer doesn't offer me a clean broadside shot with my 243 or 257 Roberts, I can just try again tomorrow. But on a hunt that I rarely do, and may never do again, where I incur the expense of travel, lodging, permits, tags, and an outfitter or PH, I want to be able to capitalize on any opportunity the hunt provides me. If that's a sharp quartering-away shot at 300 yards on the Sonoran Mulie of a lifetime, so be it. I use bigger calibers with enough bullet weight to maintain energy and penetration on the toughest of shots. I'd much rather have a post-hunt conversation about meat damage than about a poor blood trail that wandered off into nowhere.

+1

+2 Excellent post Biebs, which is what it's all about.

The only reason I would slect the 300 magnum over any of the other three for mule deer was if I was hunting somewhere that running into a griz was likely.

465H&H

quote:

Originally posted by Jon Beutler:
Why is it that when I think about that "once in a lifetime" mule deer hunt, I question the adequacy of my caliber. I have hunted deer and elk my whole life with a 06/308/270 with no problems, but when I think about this mysterious hunt of a lifetime, I have a need to purchase a .300 mag? This was further enforced this weekend at the hunt expo, when I was asked a guide what rifle he would choose. He said “the one I can shoot the best” I then asked what he would take, he said “the magnum”. I then asked if he can shoot his mag better than the non-mag and he said no. So why is it we feel so uncomfortable or inadequate hunting with a gun we can shoot better, on that proverbial “hunt of a lifetime”?

You can't kill a mule deer with impotent flacid little cartridges like the 30-06, 270 and 308. Listen to your guide and use a manly viagra round like a 300 win mag or a 338 Weatherby.

silly guys! roger

I have never hunted Mule Deer but I can't see any reason why any of the three rifles you have would not work just fine. If they worked for Elk I can't imagine having any doubt they would work for a Mule Deer. I would take the one I shot the best if going on a hunt of a life time.

Anyone who says the 270 is inadequate for deer is just plain full if s#!t!

Now there was a time when the 220 swift was being pushed of as a mystical magical deer slaying wonder round. And lots of folks DID kill deer with it, but others watched it fail miserably. Think about that while pondering the "Need" for a 300 mag for deer..

I have all the confidence in the world in my little old 257 AI for deer. Id use it on any mulie hunt without hesitation.. Same with an 06 with 150 grainers.. One shot dead at any reasonable yardage, if the shooter does his part..

Hearing classic deer rounds like the 270 are inadequate is laughable. It is quite possibly the best deer round ever made!!

If the 270win was being marketed today it would be as a magnum, a 130gr bullet @ 3,100fps aint nothing to sneer at.....

What I found on my first "hunt of a lifetime" mule deer hunt was that a big case capable of loooong range punch from a relatively new rifle with hundreds of rounds of practice out to the 350 yard mark....earned me a 25 yard broadside shot at the buck I wanted while scouting the first morning looking for a good spot to glass from. I had stopped to pull a can of Copenhagen from my pack when the brute popped out of the scrub oaks right in front of me and stopped to test the wind with a lip curled like the doe was close. The 300Wby/150 grain Partition took off the plumbing half of the heart and he went 25 yards. I have since made 300+ yard kills on bucks with 240, 257, and 270 weatherbys and the 260 remington. Probably happiest with the 260. Killed just as quick and much easier to carry. This years buck was a problem with a 270Wby and 110gr TTSX. Point of shoulder quartering to and only got 8" of penetration after smashing the femur and creating a baseball size void where all of the shoulder muscle was. It was my biggest to date and if I could figure out how to post a pic I would put it up. Anyway, he went about 1000 yards and bed down laying on his good lung and drown. Had I been shooting a 270Win with 130 or 140 grain bullet he never would have made it out of the draw. It wasn't an impact velocity or energy problem it was a sectional density problem and a bit of bad luck. An inch to the right and I miss that big ol bone and the pulmonary arteries would have been toast. Just use enough BULLET and your current rifles are perfect.

quote:

Originally posted by Jon Beutler:
Why is it that when I think about that "once in a lifetime" mule deer hunt, I question the adequacy of my caliber. I have hunted deer and elk my whole life with a 06/308/270 with no problems, but when I think about this mysterious hunt of a lifetime, I have a need to purchase a .300 mag? This was further enforced this weekend at the hunt expo, when I was asked a guide what rifle he would choose. He said “the one I can shoot the best” I then asked what he would take, he said “the magnum”. I then asked if he can shoot his mag better than the non-mag and he said no. So why is it we feel so uncomfortable or inadequate hunting with a gun we can shoot better, on that proverbial “hunt of a lifetime”?

I feel your pain. I did exactly what you did. I have a .280 that served me well for many hunts, but switched to a .300WM for the heck of it. I shoot that all the time now - same exact results but more recoil.

Oh well, it is fun to have this problem.

For your hunt of a lifetime, shoot what you shoot the best and do not fret the bullet diameter. Anything from .244 to .375 works on mule deer very efficiently.

The largest mule deer I ever killed was with a 6.5 Carcano at just below the 30-30 energy level. 6 point western near or over 300 lbs. roger