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Gentlemen Read my above post. IMHO in North America there is little difference between the 338/06, the 35 Whelen,the 350 Rem Mag, the 338 Win Mag the 9,3x62 or the 358 Win for that matter... IF proper bullets for the game hunted are chosen. The 338 win Mag might have a little advantage at 300 yards... However when it comes to Africa I feel the 9,3x62 holds the advantage... Baised on my use of the 9,3x74R, anything that can be done with the 375 H&H, can be done, and I HAVE DONE, with the 9,3x74R. And so can be done with the 9,3x62... I have killed cape buff, giraffe, and elephant [at 5 yards] with my 9,3x74R... DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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I feel the 338-06 has a slight edge over the 35 Whelen because of it's higher BC. It would retain it's velocity and energy for a slightly longer distance shoot a tad flatter. They both can equal one another on velocity for the 225 and 250 grain bullets. | |||
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I was foot loose and fancy free and about 100 yards from elephants once.....and yes...no fence of any kind between us.....if one of those things got within 5 yards.....I'd have to change my pants before I could shoot.....they are just plain scary!  /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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I find it interesting that guys that argue the 35 Whelen is as good as the 9.3X62 tend to get worked up argueing, and the 9.3 advocates don't seem to give a damn, one way or another. I think the 35 Whelen advocates are just just intimidated by the 9.3 shooters good attitudes, and their comfort level with their preferred round. Your as full of shit as a Christmas Goose at Thanksgiving!!!!! I use a 375 H&H to hunt whitetail deer in Texas, how the Hell Is Any 9.3, going to intimidate me? There are no fleas/flies/bats/cats/rats/wombats, or anything else on the 9.3x62, but the same can be said for the Whelen. What can the 9.3x62 do that the 9.3x64 or the 9.3x74R can't do? Wait, let me answer that one, NOTHING!!!!!! This has nothing to do with intimidation, it has to do with the fact, that regardless of how the supporters of either round feel, the arms and ammunition manufacturers do not feel the same way. In Europe, the 9.3, and for that fact ALL of the metric calibers, achieved their actual potential, where as in America, NONE of the various .358 cartridges, or any of the metric calibers, with the exception of the 7mm rem. Mag ever received the attention they deserve. I shot a whitetail deer yesterday afternoon at 160+ yards with a 1915 norwegian Krag in 6.5x55, using 130 grain Barnes "X" Flat Base bullets, and I feel that it did an excellent job. Did it do a better job than a .243 or a .257 Roberts or a 25-06, NO! Will a properly placed bullets of the same weight from a Whelen or a 9.3x62 get the job done with little if any noticeable difference, YES. Can the average hunter under field conditions actually differentiate between the performance of the two, No, they can't. Anyone that believes they can, needs to go back in time and tell Bell how screwed up he was hunting ivory with the calibers he was using. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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This is how we delude ourselves into believing that one cartridge is better than another similar cartridge. If the better SD of the 338-06 gives it an edge in BC, which in turn allows it to retain its velocity better than the 35 Whelen, then the flip side is that the greater surface area of the base of the 35 Whelen's bullet gives the expanding gas more area to do its work. Therefore, pressure and everything else being equal, the 35 Whelen will push all bullets of equal weight faster than the 330-06. This is simple physics, but handloaders have been able to trick themselves by loading one cartridge to higher pressure(especially wildcats and proprietary cartridges), giving the false impression that both cartridges "equal one another on velocity for the 225 and 250 grain bullets". Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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That's very true what you said and I knew that reply would come up by someone. You can argue too that the .008 larger the 9.3 is then the 35 caliber would work in it's benefit as you've stated the laws of physics. | |||
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I can agree with this statement. Not by much but at least measurable. | |||
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I can agree with this statement.Not by much but at least measurable.  If you can tell the practical difference in field performance out to 300 yds. you're a better man than I Gunga Din.  rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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Boy are you worked up! Thanks for making my point. | |||
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 /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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What are you? 13, grow up, no need for all the potty mouth stuff. | |||
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I can say, that when ron williams hunted with me, with his 9,3x74R Blaser BBF, when he shot at 2 deer and a turkey, it was gutting time... When he switched to his R 93 in 8x57, he shot a 224 lb [weighed] wild pig... at 158 yards... DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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I was going to point that out, but you were comparing the 338-06 and the 35 Whelen. By the same token you can say that the 8mm-06 holds the SD/BC edge over the 338-06. But then you can say the same about 30-06 Vs. the 8mm-06. Or the 280rem Vs. the 30-06, or the 270 Vs. the 280rem, or the 6.5-06 Vs. the 270, or the 25-06 Vs. the 6.5-06. As much as we like to delude ourselves, necking the same case up or down a few thousandths makes no real world difference. But is does give us something to argue about..... When working on the same case, going up in diameter is a trade-off between more muzzle velocity but less resistance to deceleration(they start faster but slow down faster), while going down in diameter allows less muzzle velocity but better resistance to deceleration(they start slower but slow down less quickly). When it comes to ballistics there is no such thing as a free lunch. Jason "You're not hard-core, unless you live hard-core." _______________________ Hunting in Africa is an adventure. The number of variables involved preclude the possibility of a perfect hunt. Some problems will arise. How you decide to handle them will determine how much you enjoy your hunt. Just tell yourself, "it's all part of the adventure." Remember, if Robert Ruark had gotten upset every time problems with Harry Selby's flat bed truck delayed the safari, Horn of the Hunter would have read like an indictment of Selby. But Ruark rolled with the punches, poured some gin, and enjoyed the adventure. -Jason Brown | |||
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And in the end you pick what works for you. I went to the 9,3 over the .375 because I found a rifle that fitted me perfectly and I could really use at a time in my life (18) when I was involved in both culling and a war. The .375's on offer didn't fit me as well. By the time I could afford better or different and could choose I was so used to the bolt throw length on the 9,3 that moving up to the .375 H&H was just looking for trouble So I have stayed with the 9,3 for general PH work and got a .375 FL double for guiding and following wounded stuff into thick cover. Was the 9,3 the 'best' choice for buffalo culling? Dunno, but it served me very well. Is it the best caliber for a PH?...no it is too light for going away shots particularly on buffalo. I own some 40 rifles (from .920" down) but do 99% of my shooting with either the 9,3 or the .375 FL - why? They just plain work. Can I see any difference between the 9,3 (286grn at 2380fps) and the .375 FL (300grn at 2425fps) - Nope I suspect if I lived in the USA and needed a 'shoot em it dies' rifle for everything from deer to bear (like I use my 9,3 for) I would be drawn towards the .338 -06, but I have never felt too over gunned shooting fox in Europe and dik dik in Africa with the 9,3, nore terrably undergunned hunting elephant or buff in Africa with it. | |||
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The Whelen is just wrong, thats why the 9,3 is a winner. The 338-06 is better because its smaller and the 9,3 because its bigger. The 30-06 and 375H&H must be a lot better. Its clearer now how the 223 for deer and 12 ga from hell builders are reasoning. This thread make me think of a recent used car survey here in Norway. The Toyota Yaris topped the list over how satisfied users were with their car, you cant argue with that, I silently concluded that the survey was useless to me. | |||
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The late Finn Aagaard says in an article about the 35 Whelen: " It might be of interest to some readers to note that the well respected .350 Rigby Mag. (African professional John Taylor declered it one of the best of the mediums) earned its reputation with a 225 grn bullet at a nominal 2625 fps." And the very same John Taylor says on page 149 in his book AFRICAN RIFLES AND CARTRIDGES about the .350 Rigby Magnum " No man in his right mind could possibly whish for a better medium bore rifle than this for general African hunting". This is about the .350 Rigby Magnum, but as our beloved 35 Whelen eaquels this famous cartride, I feel it prudent to mention this two gentlemen. Arild Iversen. | |||
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 Ya gotta love those Norwegians! /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// "Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery." Winston Churchill | |||
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You all seem to have a hell of a lot more experience than me. I do own a 35Wheelen AI and not a 9.3x62. Somehow me thinks just about any animal hit with any of the offerings each caliber pushes out to 300yards wouldn't know the difference. Reminds me of some of the 308 vs 30-06 threads. I fixed that argument; I did what every good gun owner ought to do -- buy both. I can only conclude that if I didn't go Ackley Improved with my Wheelen then I would be stuck buying a 9.3. But since it's an AI clearly I'm a boozoka ahead of the 9.3!  | |||
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Simple fix for that a 9.3x62AI  | |||
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Here's some words from another crazy norwegian.. 1) The world is going more and more metric. The rising interest in the 9,3x62 can be a side effect of that 2) Poeple are seeking back to the roots, to the originals. Otto Bock in Berlin created the 62 in 1905. The German farmers in the German colonies in Africa wanted something more powerful than the 7x57 , 8x57 and 9x57. There were lots of rifles on the M98 action to rebarrel. A m98 in 9,3x62 says "history" a lot more than a 35 Whelen.. (at least here in Europe) 3) A experienced hunter will taylor his guns to his needs. My 6,5x55 is for roedeer hunting, my 8x68S is for those long shots at moose/african plain games in the open, my 9,3x64 is for moose hunting deep in the woods etc. If I were only hunting wild boar, the 35 would be perfect! A soft 250 gr slug at 2400 f/s which opened quickly. But with moose in sight, the 286 gr at 2400 f/s is a bit better. The Whelen's only problem is than tiny disanvantage versus the 62, lack of speed with the heaviest bullets. m | |||
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9.3x62AI a.k.a. 9,3x64. Still one may pose the same question "Why 9,3x64 fails and 9,3x62 is a winner" despite 64 beating 62 in every compartment (but caliber)  ? | |||
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Metric, And that's the way it is.  We have always a reason to buy one more caliber. And it will invariably be to the astonishment of the wife. Warrior | |||
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Why is that???? I don't mind how many vacume cleaners my old lady has!  Glas she doesn't read this stuff! | |||
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No. I am 61 years young, and I suspect the word "bull shit" is not that offensive to your ears but provided you a perfect excuse to dodge the real point of my post...your insinuations against Vapordog. Your mental dexterity to sling insinuations at others while appearing "above the frey" is cute but not unnoticed. Barstooler | |||
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After all the rhetoric and the input from the European crowd, the fact remains that had the .358/35 Whelen been loaded UP to its potential, the difference between it and the 9.3 would be even less noticeable than many on here want to pontificate about. Yes, if you are simple minded enough to compare 250 grain .358 loadings to 286 grain .366 loadings, then the 9.3 has a distinct advantage. But I would bet, that a Whelen loaded with .366, 286 grain bullets swaged down to .358, would give performance similar to the 9.3x62. Can anyone prove me wrong? Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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Crazy Read my above posts. If you load the 35W with 300 or 310gr Woodleigh bullets it will kill cape buff and elephants, ala the 400/350... But in todays Africa it is not legal... So the 9,3x62 or the 375 H&H is the better choice for Africa... For North America the 35W is a great pick, as is the 358 Win the 338/06, 350 Rem Mag, and even the 338 Federal... But for Africa the 9,3x62, the 9,3x74R or the 375 H&H is the better choice... IMHO of course, but remember I have used the 9,3x74R a LOT. From turkey, coyote, bobcat, deer, pigs, bnlack bear, to all African plains game up to and including giraffe, as well as cape buff and elephant... I would not hesitate to go to Jurassic park with only a 9,3x74R double rifle... DOUBLE RIFLE SHOOTERS SOCIETY | |||
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Cute is a hobby of mine, Thanks for noticing. However your insults posted were quite shamefull for a man as mature as yourself | |||
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Not trying to come across snotty here, but you ask if someone can prove you wrong. If you truly wish an answer, maybe you need to prove yourself right. Your arguement comes across to me that since the 35 Whelen is the equal of the 9.3X62 there is no need for the 9.3X62. The Whelen is a good round, no doubt. But shooting a 9.3X62 is a matter of personal preference for me, and many others. And a lot of us do not care if there are equal or better rounds out there. We are still going to shoot, and hunt with 9.3s. The Whelen owners are free to do the same, and as Vapodog pointed out, many own guns in both calibers. A four page thread on a message board on the subject, is just a waste of bandwidth on a server, in my humble opinion. | |||
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Sorry, but you are reading something into my posts that is not there. What I am pointing out, for those able to look beyond the end of their nose, is that while the 9.3 is a great round, I can not see where with the same bullet weight loadings, that it completely overshadows the Whelen performance wise. There is a place for both rounds in my world, but some folks do not seem to feel the same way. Maybe some folks, including you, have your panties bunched up too tight, to understand that just because someone does not hit their knees at the alter of the 9.3, that they think it is an inferior cartridge, it just means that for whatever reason they don't like it as well as they do the Whelen. What is wrong with that concept??????? Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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My panties feel quite well adjusted, thank you. And the tone of your post had me thinking that maybe yours where the ones that where double knotted. I do not see where anyone has expected, or asked you to worship the 9.3X62, all I see is your nonconstructive tone with anyone who does not agree with you. I do not care if you agree with me, you have your hands full agreeing with yourself. I tried to extend you an olive branch in my last post, and I contend that you are the one that is reading things in others post that are not there, and ignoring the things that are. | |||
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On this or any other forum I have been on, I could care less if anyone agrees with me. I merely state my opinion(s) on an issue, nothing more, nothing less. You nor anyone else has showed any real proof, that the 9.3 has any real tangible adv antage over the Whelen with bullets of the same weight. At no point in any of my posts have I said or intimated that the Whelen was better than the 9.3, or that the 9.3 was not a good round. I am just saying that the Whelen is not a failure, it just has not received the attention from the arms and ammo manufacturers that the 9.3 has, but the round its self is a good one and has and will continue to take game animals as well as any round out there. Even the rocks don't last forever. | |||
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I've owned 2 Whelens over the years but they both are gone. The twist rate was what irked me. Now have a 9.3x62. | |||
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Still avoiding my original point on casting insinuations by setting up strawman. And lets see about you last jibe. The only reall "insult" was flies and bullshit instead of fleas on the 9.3. I suggest you grow a thicker skin....or just grow up. I am surprised that you managed to physically survive such "shamefull," "potty mouth" insults. Barstooler | |||
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I am not thinking either is "superior" to the other in practical terms. I do agree that if the gun and bullet manufacturers had supported the Whelen as they should have, it would be a vastly more popular chambering. That said, they both are great N.A. cartridges and the upper hand would go to the 9.3 if taken to Africa simply for legalities sake - not that it is inherently more effective than a .358" projectile, just that the rule had to be set somewhere and there were a lot of 9.3mm rifles in Africa. We all know that bullet diameter should not be the determining factor as to whether a cartridge is legitimate for use against dangerous game. Funny that the 318 Westley Richards was the darling of the light express chamberings and used effectively as a general go to gun, even against dangerous game in the right hands. The Whelan (in AI form) is really just a 318 with a .358" bullet rather than the .330" bullet of the Westley. Yet, the Whelan is scoffed at as a general purpose African caliber. IMO, the 318, 8mm-06, 338-06, 35 Whelan and the 9.3x62 all fill the same niche if the 9.3mm minimum didnt exist. | |||
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LOL! Thanks for your concern about my skin thickness. It is nice to know you truly care, and you have such a refined sense of humor. | |||
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+1 No game animal can tell the difference and that is where all the Whelen fans hang there hat but on paper the 338 does have the advantage. The 9.3 currently has a factory loading advantage over the Whelen but the Whelen can be hand loaded to compete head to head with it. There is an optimum bullet weight for every caliber even though several weights are offered. IMO the 286 is very close to optimum for the 9.3 and the 250 is close for the 338 so the optimum for the 35 should be someplace in the 275 grain range. This is the reality that most of us seem to understand quite well while others don't. Captain Finlander | |||
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Of course by that same rationale: Assuming that all were loaded to their "real" potential at 60,000 psi, because the 338-06 would have better BC and sectional density than the Whelen with a 275gr bullet, and the Whelen would have better BC and sectional density than the 9.3 with the same bullet, then the 338-06 would be a better choice than the 9.3....as I read your rationale. Actually. I think the ideal bullet for a 338-06 is 225gr. (ideal bullet for 338 RUM on the other hand is 250gr.) Ideal bullet for Whelen is 250gr, and Ideal bullet for 9.3 would be 286gr. I do not own a 9.3, but personally believe it could be loaded above its original design specification in a modern action...just like the Whelen should not be restricted to 52K CUP when compared to the 338-06 in a modern action. Barstooler | |||
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FUCK Gentlemen, how about some just straight out ballistic comparison between the two. After that ain'it a Ford vs Chevy type kind a deal ain't it? The things you see when you don't have a gun. NRA Endowment Life Member Proud father of an active duty Submariner... Go NAVY! | |||
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Having hunted a range of critters with the 338-06, 35 Whelen and 9.3x62 I find it hard to draw a clear distinction. If I were to chase a buffalo there is no question that the 9.3 would go given the three BUT I would not go buffalo hunting with such a gun when I have a proper 416 Rem and Rigby. For the lesser game I do like the 35 Whelen loaded with the 225 gr TSX at 2700 fps.   That said, I have dumped a handful of elk with the 338-06 and it will accompany me this spring in BC for grizzly. That all said, again.... The 9.3x62 worked like a champ in Africa in 2002 with the 250 Branes X.  So, IME, pick your poison of the three and all will be fine. | |||
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I'm disappointed to read that the 35 Whelen is a failure. I was really looking forward to load development and testing, then hunting with this one.       ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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