THE MASTER OF THE FOREST

So The Story Goes;

Early dawn,After a cool still night,
Out in the field, a hunters hand grasps his old friend anM98 with blueing worn and ivory sight.
He spots his quarry,just a vague image shrouded in the distant pine and mist,followed by careful gentle stalk. Soon after his weapon bellows with brisk recoil,Instantaneously,a determined Woodleigh makes its spiral flight, muzzle flash contrasting against the increasing light.
The effect is final,the result foretold. Like a seaman accepts the lash, the animal accepts its fate;shakes,shudders,falters,collapses,in the early morning cold,death has taken hold.
Like a true olympian ,the big metric earns its gold.
Some rifles are for the mantlepiece,others designed to work the forest floor,game specific moose medicine,the 9.3x64 .not to mention big cat,heavy bear and wild boar.
You would never ask a fireman to be without his trusty axe,same goes for an avid hunter and his 9.3 when on a horned or toothy critters tracks.
And that is why a peep sighted 9.3 is what I choose to have on the Landrover seat by me,that in an M98 is a combination hard to beat,and makes a big game trophy hunter glee.
It would truely be unfair for a wise and reasonable man to ask for much more,even though the great Brenneke on some occasion has been overlooked & underestimated in favour of a larger bore.
But alas,when the moment comes, it surprises us like Sampson ,with his ass' jaw.
Let me remind you,that Even when there is a day off from the sun,dust,snow or threat of an ominus beasts tooth and claw, the 9.3 still rests ready,all capable of just about any chore.
Not horizontal on the mantle piece, but vertical behind the cabin door.




http://www.gunweek.com/2002/feature1201.html

It sure is a Fine and well proportioned looking Round!


Hagn M98 9.3x64.


Quarry;


Result

Well done!

gooood stuff...

Yes, I suspect its the equal of our .375 H&H, and that ain't no light praise.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Yes, I suspect its the equal of our .375 H&H, and that ain't no light praise.

I've always admired the 9.3x64 for a variety of reasons but never owned one. I plan to rectify that in the very near future.

I think that this is one of the most underrated calibers in existence. I too love the caliber!

quote:

Originally posted by cobra:

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Yes, I suspect its the equal of our .375 H&H, and that ain't no light praise.

I've always admired the 9.3x64 for a variety of reasons but never owned one. I plan to rectify that in the very near future.

I do believe I'm missing something here. I look at my load tables and the BEST I can find with the 9.3X64 with 286gr bullet is near 2300FPS. With the 375 H&H I can push the 300gr Nosler partition at 2600FPS with a load of Re15. Some 300FPS faster and a heavier bullet sort of forces me to call "Bullshit" on any claim that the 9.3 is equal to the 375 - tain't so, McGee, tain't so! I can't knock the 9.3 as I have no first hand experience but it ain't no 375 H&H. Sort of reminds me of all the claims re the 45LC being "just as powerful as a 44Mag".

quote:

Originally posted by TrapperP:

quote:

Originally posted by cobra:

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Yes, I suspect its the equal of our .375 H&H, and that ain't no light praise.

I've always admired the 9.3x64 for a variety of reasons but never owned one. I plan to rectify that in the very near future.

I do believe I'm missing something here. I look at my load tables and the BEST I can find with the 9.3X64 with 286gr bullet is near 2300FPS. With the 375 H&H I can push the 300gr Nosler partition at 2600FPS with a load of Re15. Some 300FPS faster and a heavier bullet sort of forces me to call "Bullshit" on any claim that the 9.3 is equal to the 375 - tain't so, McGee, tain't so! I can't knock the 9.3 as I have no first hand experience but it ain't no 375 H&H. Sort of reminds me of all the claims re the 45LC being "just as powerful as a 44Mag".

Trap, I believe you're looking at the ballistics for the 9.3x62, the 9.3x64 with 286 grain bullets should be around 2650 fps. It exceeds the .375 in energy by about 120 ft./lbs.

quote:

Trap, I believe you're looking at the ballistics for the 9.3x62, the 9.3x64 with 286 grain bullets should be around 2650 fps. It exceeds the .375 in energy by about 120 ft./lbs.

Perhaps the good Mr Trap missed something afterall

quote:

Originally posted by TrapperP:

I do believe I'm missing something here. I look at my load tables and the BEST I can find with the 9.3X64 with 286gr bullet is near 2300FPS. [/QUOTE]

Where did you dig up your facts? Your overlapping the pages or something because your way off!!!!!!!!
9.3x64 Brenneke
286 grain Nosler Partition S.D. .307, fps 2690 with IMR 4350
375 H&H
300 grain Nosler Partition S.D. .305, fps 2600 with W760

Got two, one on a pre-64 M70 action and the other on a Mauser. Don't have a .375, my arsenal skips right to the .45's. The Winchester served me well in Africa on the large plains game species using 286 gr Partitions.

It is truely impressive what a 286 gr Partition a 286 gr TUG or a 300 gr Swift a-frame will do to a moose when fired from a 9.3x64. Mine is a custom mauser 98 and I will never part with it.

quote:

Originally posted by cobra:

quote:

Originally posted by TrapperP:

quote:

Originally posted by cobra:

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Yes, I suspect its the equal of our .375 H&H, and that ain't no light praise.

I've always admired the 9.3x64 for a variety of reasons but never owned one. I plan to rectify that in the very near future.

I do believe I'm missing something here. I look at my load tables and the BEST I can find with the 9.3X64 with 286gr bullet is near 2300FPS. With the 375 H&H I can push the 300gr Nosler partition at 2600FPS with a load of Re15. Some 300FPS faster and a heavier bullet sort of forces me to call "Bullshit" on any claim that the 9.3 is equal to the 375 - tain't so, McGee, tain't so! I can't knock the 9.3 as I have no first hand experience but it ain't no 375 H&H. Sort of reminds me of all the claims re the 45LC being "just as powerful as a 44Mag".

Trap, I believe you're looking at the ballistics for the 9.3x62, the 9.3x64 with 286 grain bullets should be around 2650 fps. It exceeds the .375 in energy by about 120 ft./lbs.

I don't have a manual here in the office but I think we have seen this before: Have a look and tell me what/where/when to find more9.3x64 Brennekedata???

9.3x64 Brenneke

"20 loads available in 9.3x64 Brenneke with bullet weight equal "286 grs". Click on LoadID to show all the details for the given load."

Looks like I didn'd pull down far enough to get the heavy loads with the Vihtavuori powder - I see 2557 fps listed for the 286 Nosler partition - or maybe I did punch in the 9.3X62. Maybe this is all the more reason for not quoting something without checking it a couple or three times. I stand corrected.

TrapperP
for starters this is Accurate Reloading and Saeed provides some reloading for cartridges on this site, including the 9.3x64. Also try the Nosler fifth edition reloading manual.

Even the 9.3x62 will do better than 2300 fps with a 286... with a 60cm - 24" barrel, I have found 2450 fps to be comfortably obtainable, though I seat to mag length...

The mere fringe following of the 9.3x64 is, IMHO, the single most puzzling in large rifle cartidgedom. Allegedly it was bad-mouthed in its early years because it was too hot for the standard 9.3mm bullets of the day (which were made for 9.3x57 and 9.3x62 velocities). In truth, however, it is essentially a beltless 375 Taylor that offers an extra round in the mag, can be made on a 30-06 length action, and has the all the power of the 375 H&H. IMHO, every modern "belted magnum" from the 264WM through the 416 Taylor should have been based on the 9.3x64mm case...

Have you considered .376 Steyr? Why is exta one in magazine so important to you?

quote:

Originally posted by Paolo9,5x73:
Have you considered .376 Steyr? Why is exta one in magazine so important to you?

Why wouldn't it be? By the way, the .376 Steyr is based on the Brenneke case.

quote:

Originally posted by Woodjack:
It sure is a Fine and well proportioned looking Round!


Hagn M98 9.3x64

Quarry;

Result;

Wow, very nice rifle!

.

Hello Alf,

Whats the go with the DWM StarkMantel-Geschoss,.. what is the construction of that pill,looks like a steel insert in the tip? Are/were they a good game bullet? Are they bonded?

.

Thankyou ALF.

the Germans are over technical sometimes,but I supppose they got it right with the RWS-TUG bullet.

Anybody shoot any of the Barnes 250 gr'ers in the x64's? I seem to remember that the Barnes 250's were about 300+ fps faster than the Mauser out the Brenneke at around 2900+ and that caught my attention.
My Nosler Fifth ed shows 2750-2800 in 250 Gr BT's (Accubonds anytime soon?)and 2554 to 2600 in 286 PT's or only about 200-250 fps faster for the Brennke over the Mauser. 250's at 2900 ...what an elk bullet and an answer for a 338RUM.

.

The NF 250 works nicely out of my 9.3 x 62.

Should be even nicer out of the 9.3 x 64 when it is done.

Hard to find RWS ammo in the US.

LD

The TUG is an excellent bullet in the 9.3x62 and works fine for soft skinned game in the 9.3x64 but sometimes I get the impression it breaks up a bit too easy at close range with the faster 9.3x64. It will however break a buffalo's spine and then come apart in the spine at close range (with the 9.3x64) with the hard rear part normally staying together in the spine.

I once tested 375 RWS solids in the 9.3x64 against 375 H&H using Winchester solids and found penetration was identical.

I sighted in both rifles at 100 yards and then shot at a target at 200 yards and found the
9.3x64 was quite a bit flatter shooting than the 375 H&H.

I have never had 9.3X64 RWS round nosed solids fail in hippo but I have had one flat nosed solid in a 375H&H fail.

I knew Odo Willscher who did all the original testing of the 9.3x64 for Wilhelm Brenneke. He shot more than 300 elephants and 300 buffalo with it in the Cameroons. It was all Odo ever used for everything including tigers.

The only problem with the 9.3x64 is the cost of ammo.

There is an interesting story on the internet about an Abrams tank in Iraq being stopped by a single bullet. It has only happened once. The author says they figured it was a metal piercing 9.3x64 as the Russians now make a semi-auto military rifle in that calibre and that was the size of the hole.

VBR,


Ted Gorsline

quote:

There is an interesting story on the internet about an Abrams tank in Iraq being stopped by a single bullet. It has only happened once. The author says they figured it was a metal piercing 9.3x64 as the Russians now make a semi-auto military rifle in that calibre and that was the size of the hole.

VBR,


Ted Gorsline

Ted,

I have heard that story as well but it sounded apocryphal to me. Wonder whether any of the military members would comment.

Carcano 91 has one of the 9.3x64 Dragunov based rifles from Shipunov and perhaps he would comment on it's performance? I know that he loves his rifle and has been very impressed by it's performance.

The big problem with the 9.3x64 has always been cost of ammo and only RWS making cases. If the Russian metal piercing stuff ever comes on the surplus market you might finally have good cheap practise ammo and exceptional solids.

I think its the best all round hunting calibre in the world but I don't own one because of the ammo problem.



VBR,


Ted Gorsline

Ted Gorsline
Barnaul makes ammo for the 9,3X64 Brenneke
http://www.barnaulammunition.com/sporthunting.htm

Cheers
/JOHAN

A 105mm AP shell won't penetrate an M1's armor and you believe a 9.3 did? I'm as fanatic about my own choices as the next guy but seriously.

quote:

Originally posted by Planemech:
A 105mm AP shell won't penetrate an M1's armor and you believe a 9.3 did? I'm as fanatic about my own choices as the next guy but seriously.

quote:

Originally posted by Ted Gorsline:
The TUG is an excellent bullet in the 9.3x62 and works fine for soft skinned game in the 9.3x64 but sometimes I get the impression it breaks up a bit too easy at close range with the faster 9.3x64. It will however break a buffalo's spine and then come apart in the spine at close range (with the 9.3x64) with the hard rear part normally staying together in the spine.

I once tested 375 RWS solids in the 9.3x64 against 375 H&H using Winchester solids and found penetration was identical.

I sighted in both rifles at 100 yards and then shot at a target at 200 yards and found the
9.3x64 was quite a bit flatter shooting than the 375 H&H.

I have never had 9.3X64 RWS round nosed solids fail in hippo but I have had one flat nosed solid in a 375H&H fail.

I knew Odo Willscher who did all the original testing of the 9.3x64 for Wilhelm Brenneke. He shot more than 300 elephants and 300 buffalo with it in the Cameroons. It was all Odo ever used for everything including tigers.

The only problem with the 9.3x64 is the cost of ammo.

There is an interesting story on the internet about an Abrams tank in Iraq being stopped by a single bullet. It has only happened once. The author says they figured it was a metal piercing 9.3x64 as the Russians now make a semi-auto military rifle in that calibre and that was the size of the hole.

VBR,


Ted Gorsline

Actually its not so far fetched a proposition..

The trick allegedly is shot placement...there are supposedly small areas on the tank which don't have anywhere near the same armour protection as the main armour on the front of the hull or turret...The "gaps" (I think the turret ring is one) don't ordinarily pose a problem as they are simply too small for something like a 105mmAP to hit and penetrate..

Not so with a sniper rifle and a well trained soldier. Remember this tank was shot at relatively close reange in an urban environment. It was stationary at the time...Although the armour was pierced, it didn't kill the tank nor as luck had it any of the crew..

Its quite possible that if the Russians have a cutting edge small calibre AP round that they sent some of their Special Forces to Iraq to try it...Whether it was a 9.3x64 round, or a SABOT round based on the 12.75mm or something entirely different, that armour was piereced by a shoulder fired weapn...something that was previously thought impossible..

The armour of the M1 is a variation of a British armour and I can tell you that eyebrows were certainly raised over here when that story came out...

quote:

Originally posted by Ted Gorsline:
There is an interesting story on the internet about an Abrams tank in Iraq being stopped by a single bullet. It has only happened once. The author says they figured it was a metal piercing 9.3x64 as the Russians now make a semi-auto military rifle in that calibre and that was the size of the hole.

1. Indeed a military semi-armour-piercing FMJ variant of the 9,3x64 is manufactured by LVE Novosibirsk (code 7H33, and called "9x64", but it has the normal bullet diameter). There is even a pic somewhere on the WWW...
http://www.lveplant.ru/boevpat_eng.htm

2. The military SVDK rifle is strictly a prototype, and nowhere yet introduced in Russian normal service. It was developed only after (!) the civilian Tigr-9, and Izhmash still tinkers on it, seeking interested buyers.

Carcano

i have a friend who has used 9,3x64 for several years. it `s loaded normally with a 320 grs woodleigh or a 250 grs swift or 300 grs woodleigh. the largest he has shot with it is a eland, the smallest a dik,dik. plus moose and black bear in cananda and very much else. look at

http://www.villmarksenter.hm.no/

to see his restaurant and so on .

look at "jakt" he can arrange very much different norwegian hunting and its a fine place. he has very much different he can offer. of hunting he can arrange moosehunt (the norwegian one, beaver, roedeer, forrest bird .

I am going to build one of these (9.3x64) on my Husky Mauser, just as soon as I finish my 7 Mashburn Super, which I am building on my just acquired Sako Finnbear with a 3.6 inch magazine.

Hello,
Yes, the "ruskies" have used the caliber for some designated shooter work, snipers if you will, but rest assured the round will not penetrate any part of the Abrams tank mentioned here. The Russians are so strapped for funds/cash, lots of devlepment of specialty arms just does not have much of a role to play. Remember, they have a fairly large fleet of old atomic subs rusting away up north and maintenance of their military is crude at best. Of course it always has been and that speaks to some credit for their basic approach to engineering.
Small arms will not work against the tank under any circumstances. If the hatch was open, ricochet, etc. is a possiblity, but no other way is that going to occur. For large caliber tactical/sniper shooting, beieve the 338 Lapua to be a better round and leave the 9.3 x 64 to sporting uses. Hell, only a government could afford the round.
The defensive systems of the Abrams tank has some heritage to the British, true enough, but long since went beyond those levels of technology and no one is aware of just how or what we do to armor the vehicle as we do. Lots of speculations, but that is all there is. Even if you captured one and tore it apart and studied it would not lead you to find a weakness. Amazing vehicle in all respects but of course for several million dollars, most of us could build amazing things!!

I'm new to the 9.3x64 fraternity. Before last Christmas I picked up a pristine Mauser 99 {Voere Titan} in this caliber. Just got around to shooting it because it took awhile to get the brass. Huntington just got some in so I got 100 rounds. Am playing with loads now. Should be just the ticker for scrawny S.C. whitetails!

quote:

Originally posted by driver:
For large caliber tactical/sniper shooting, believe the 338 Lapua to be a better round and leave the 9.3 x 64 to sporting uses. Hell, only a government could afford the round.

The .338 Lapua Magnum is more expensive to produce. Retail price for the civilian Russian 9,3x64 load (Barnaul) here is presently at 55 Euros per 100 rounds.

Carcano

Why don't one of you guys buy the original Brenneke Mauser in 9.3 x 64 that is only 2500 bucks at www.hallowellco.com?