I am getting ready to build my ultimate lightweight/longrange rifle and I would appreciate any opinions on my choices given the amount of money this will cost.

Requirements:
1/2 MOA or better
Between 6lbs and 7lbs
Multi shot magazine
lethal on deer, sheep, caribou to at least 500yds
Thumbhole stock

Selection Thus Far:
308 Win
Rem 700 SPS Stainless Short-Action
Shilen #3 Contour barrel with 1 in 10 twist
Jewell Trigger
MPI Thumbhole Stock
Badger Ord Rings and Bases
Leupold M4 8.5X25X50mm mil dot


The rifle is going to be used on everything from sheep to moose, but I would also like to be able to take coyotes and wolves at 500+yds. It was a close call for the shilen #2 contour, McMillan Lazzeroni Thumbhole Sporter, and 300WSM. I also considered a Rem 700 Titanium Action. I plan on shooting nosler accubond and ballistic tip 180gr bullets.

The 308 will do all you want really. The scope is too much for most deer hunting environments but I would be concerned with wanting a light weight long range rifle. Typically light and long don't mix well but does not mean you can't do it.

I would opt for something with a little more power especially if moose sized game is in the mix. Something along the lines of a 300 win mag with 4-16 scope.

I'm with the bear on that one 300 win is perfect

Have you considered this;

http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/firearms/detai...t_id=035&type_id=032

300 WSM with the BOSS system.

what is wrong with the howa lightning thumbhole sporter in various carts??? save the money for a hunt

http://www.legacysports.com/products/howa/howa_thmbsporter.html

30-06 in a Winchester featherweight.....they're still available on the used market.
As good as it gets!

I'm in agreement with Thebear_78. Go with a caliber with a bit more power/velocity for the larger big game. 300WM or 300WSM for the short action. Recoil will be considerably more with these calibers in a light weight rifle. 180gr Accubonds, or 150's for wolves/coyotes. My opinion, stay away from the Ballistic Tips for big game and stay with the Accubonds.

For a scopes I really like my Leupold VX3's 3.5-10x40 & 4.5-14x40 with the BC reticles. The BC reticle work sure help take the guess work out on the long distance shots at big game once the load is developed and the scope sighted in properly. I also have the Leupold VX2 4-12x40 AO with the LR duplex on my 243 for wolves/coyotes and it works great. Similar reticle to the Burris Ballistic Plex.

I am also really impressed wih the 270WSM with 140gr Accubonds on big game. This would be another good choice in a LW rifle. Long distance shots with great success. My wife got her bull moose this past season using her 270WSM @ 325 metres. She took 2 shots but the first was a kill shot anyways. Both double lung complete pass-thru. The second shot was just to anchor the moose at the timber edge as I did not really want to work hard to get the moose out. In total the moose went about 20 metres and dropped at the edge of the timber. I have had same results on my elk in 2004 and 2005.

My loads for my 300WM and 270WSM group between 3/8"-1/2" 5 shots groups @ 100metres (3.5" high) with zero being close at 300metres. I use RL-22 in my 300WM and Retumbo in my 270WSM's.

Another suggestion is a 280 Remington. I never shot one but have talked with a few people in northern BC that say they are a good sheep caliber, with a good selection of bullet weights.

Anyhow, good luck in your endevor for the ultimate LW hunting rifle.

I sure wouldn't want to hunt with a 30mm 8.5-25 scope if I was going light weight. A 2.5-8x would be about right and you can shoot deer at 500 yards on 8x.

I like your combination except for caliber. I would go for the 7mm Remington magnum. Has to be one of the best overall ctgs out there. Flat shooting, get ammo anywhere, broad variety of bullet weights, reasonable recoil, loading components yazzoo.

I second the Winny Featherweight.

You can still find some new WSM's in .270, 7mm an 300 if you search out the gun shops.

Any of these will do the job but the 7mm and 300 would be better for larger game as you can shoot heavier bullets.

Like others have said I would up the caliber a bit. Also light and long don't really go together if you want tight groups. Don't see that big scope and a thumbhole stock on a light weight rifle either. My thumbhole stock added quite a bit of weight to my M70 of course it is a pretty piece of maple.

I dont know if you want to stick with a popular chambering or not, but I like the sound of a rem700-300saum.
Have you seen this one... Pics
from post below,

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=978105556#978105556

300WM is the answer...especially if you go after moose. They usually have big bears living in the same neighborhood.

Rich
DRSS

300 WSM or a 300Win Mag I would choose the shorty. Loose the big scope. 4.5-14 will do it all IMO. Thumbholes are nice to shoot but they do not carry well. Look at a McMillian light weight or a High Tech. I bet you will loose over a l lb just in the stock. I think the barrel is the right choice I have a 280AI #4 Lilja, High Tech stock, 4.5-14LR Luepold. Williams bottom metal. gun is 8.5lbs ready to hunt, handles like it has eyes and carries well.

If a gun is balanced well and fits. does not just squat in your hands, you can go a touch heavier and not notice. Similar to a trigger that breaks really clean can be set a little heavier with out noticeing. Just my opinion. If you have the scratch and want a super shooting ultra light weight, Ultra Light Arms with out a doubt

Sounds alot like the project I am in the middle of. Except I did not go for lightweight.



Action: Nesika Bay “T†1.350 Diameter with the following options: Right bolt, Right port, Repeater cut, Nesika recoil plate, Mag box, Mag spring, Follower, Plunger Ejector, Drop bolt

SS Trigger Guard and Jewell Trigger

Barrel: Shilen Select Match SS #5 Silhouette #5 1/2 weight. 25†length, 10 twist, Match 11 degree crown, Match grade chamber with tight neck .335 (standard neck is .346).

Trigger: Jewell to be supplied by customer.

Stock: High Tech Specialities, Pillar bedded, Classic sporter style, with Marsh Paint , Pachmayr Decellerator Pad , Nickle Uncle Mikes studs and Swivle

Scope / Mounts: Nikon Titanium 5.5 16 AO, Talley SS Rings and SS Talley bases.


That is if Nesika would ever get me my action (On order since 1st week of Jan)

Funny how the above posts mention you need a "bigger/better" caliber. From my ten years in AK. i've seen more moose, caribou, bears and a few deer killed with a plane jane 30-30,30-06.
People still fail to think/consider about shot placement to anchor an animal.
One Inuit guy I knew got more meat with a 340 Savage 30-30 and green box Remington ammo than you can shake a stick at. No scope and the front sight was filed down by hand. Hi-tech here..... The .308 will work fine. Use good boolitz, shoot alot and you'll be fine.

I like the featherweight idea too. They kick tho, so pass on the 308. I'd opt for the -06 and Leupold's 4.5X14.

I would have to say that the man who can make that 500 yard shot as mentiond with a 30-30 is a better shot than I

The scope is too big, and the power range too high for hunting. The bullet choice is too heavy for optimal performance 165 premium bullets and you are there.

As a friend said yesterday;

"Shut up, get a 30-06 (or 308), load up some Partitions and get back to me when you've filled-up an Ark..."

#1 why a bolt?
#2 why build?

couldnt you just buy a browning BLR in 308 or 30-06 and be done with it?

Really don't see the need for anything custom. Plenty of new and used factory guns will work just fine with or without .5moa accuracy, which is improbable even in a custom rifle. And that scope is way silly for a sheep rifle.

Right now I am building a lightweight .260 Rem with 22" Mountain Rifle barrel contour, High Tech stock, Leupold VXII 2-7. I saved a pound getting rid of the laminated stock and going with the High Tech. Leupold 2-7 is lightweight, but high enough top end for anything the rifle will do. I fugure it is a good 350 yard, 7lb loaded, rifle. My 500 yard rifle is a .300 mag with a McMillan medium fill weight and a Leupold VXII 3-9. This thing is just under 9 lbs. loaded. I would never shoot anything 500 yards away, though. I would sneak closer.

Fast Ed

.270 Win., 7mm X 57mm., or a 280. They all will do the job nicely and in most cases with non premium bullets and have for many years. roger

A couple of questions: Have you hunted with a thumb hole stock?? I like them shooting from the bench but find them very awkward in the field.
Why that gawky "men in black" scope?? I hate to be blunt but it is everything you don't need in a hunting rifle. If you're going light and trim, a 1.5x5 or a 2x7 or even a garden variety 3x9x40 would be all the scope you'd need. I really like the trim look that comes from a lower powered scope without the front bell. And FWIW, if you can see a coyote at 500 yards, then you can certainly hit him with the image magnified 5x.

quote:

Originally posted by CORNERSTONE:
Sounds alot like the project I am in the middle of. Except I did not go for lightweight.



Action: Nesika Bay “T†1.350 Diameter with the following options: Right bolt, Right port, Repeater cut, Nesika recoil plate, Mag box, Mag spring, Follower, Plunger Ejector, Drop bolt

SS Trigger Guard and Jewell Trigger

Barrel: Shilen Select Match SS #5 Silhouette #5 1/2 weight. 25†length, 10 twist, Match 11 degree crown, Match grade chamber with tight neck .335 (standard neck is .346).

Trigger: Jewell to be supplied by customer.

Stock: High Tech Specialities, Pillar bedded, Classic sporter style, with Marsh Paint , Pachmayr Decellerator Pad , Nickle Uncle Mikes studs and Swivle

Scope / Mounts: Nikon Titanium 5.5 16 AO, Talley SS Rings and SS Talley bases.


That is if Nesika would ever get me my action (On order since 1st week of Jan)

You got a nice rifle in the works. The only thing I would change for myself is a BAT action instead of the Nesika. Nesika is a great action but after what Dakota did to the original owners of Nesika I won't own one. Good luck with you project. I bet it will shoot like a "house-o-fire"!

For what it's worth, I'm with Vapo on the featherweight in 06.

If I wanted a compact, light'er rifle for toting, capable of (with shot placement/good bullets) reaching 500 yds, and on game you state, PERSONALLY, I would probably chose a model 70 SS featherweight in 270 WSM if I could get my hands on one, mount a 2.5-10x to 4.5-14x, no more, with 2 piece GOOD mounts mind you, Perhaps install a better stock if in your budget, and get ONE good load with a GOOD 140 grain such as an Accubond bullet, and PRACTICE TO 500 yds, preferable in 50 yd increments from 300-500, having set my POI for say 3" high at 100 or thereabouts.

I would LEARN the gun, as I would be confident of it's performance. I would also add, that wherever possible, I would try getting within 300-350 yds on the long side, IF doable, and KNOW with certainty of range, and confidence in your shot placement IF you choose to squeeze. Having a solid rest, or even a small bipod would be VERY helpful as well as a laser range finder.

Good luck. BTW, I would think anything you choose spitting a 140-180 gr premium bullet at 3000 or faster, WITH good SD and BC is capable, and your own recoil tolerance, 'factoring in the light weight' should dictate just 'how large a cartridge' you should choose.

Good luck. Oh, a 308 would do as well as others, but the trajectory of a faster round is helpful after 350-400 yds, when in field and your range may not be 'estimated accurately' IF you don't have a range finder. Do realize, higher mag scopes can 'falsely give over confidence' during trigger break, so watch you don't handicap yourself by over scoping. It can lead to 'pulling the shot', 14-16x in my experience is plenty for 99% of all game shot under all distances I have shot them, and that is much higher than much of what I have used.

Good hunting/clean kills.

quote:

Originally posted by Jacobite:
Like others have said I would up the caliber a bit. Also light and long don't really go together if you want tight groups. Don't see that big scope and a thumbhole stock on a light weight rifle either. My thumbhole stock added quite a bit of weight to my M70 of course it is a pretty piece of maple.

The thumbhole stocks at MPI weigh about the same as their others 24-28 oz. What do you mean light and long don't go together for tight groupings?

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
.270 Win., 7mm X 57mm., or a 280. They all will do the job nicely and in most cases with non premium bullets and have for many years. roger

Well said bartsche, but I think Jack O'connor beat you to it, about 50 yrs ago . IIRC, he said something like, "the North American hunter would be no worse off, if the only caliber made was the 270, and the only bullet available for it, the 130 gr." OWTE
But of course, I'd avoid the Rem action, the noodle barrel, the thumbhole wood, etc etc.
"Longrange/lightweight" are a little oxymoronic in a hunting rifle, IMO. I'd also never, ever shoot at an animal bigger than a parairie dog 500 yards away. I prefer them @ 50 yards

I wouldn't hesitate to take anything except a big brown with a 308win. I know a guide here in AK that has taken everything in the state with a .243win including a coastal brown. I've heard a lot about feeding probs with the 300wsm. Also a heavier caliber will require more metal in the barrel to produce the same accuracy, at least I've been told...

I also believe the scope is too big for general hunting, but the leupold m4 4.5-14X50 LRT weighs the same as the 8.5-25X50 (22oz) and I figured that if I buy the higher mag I can always turn it down. I consider 14X the min for any varmits I may take at long range and I def require target knobs and paralax adj.

The badger ordnance base and rings are out b/c they weigh almost a pound. Any suggestions? Leupold M4? Talley?

I did find a zeiss 4.5-14X44 AO which would be perfect, but I have used one of these scopes and I was not impressed with the target knobs b/c there weren't any distinct clicks. Swarovski makes a 16x AO with t-knobs but it weighs 23oz.

Does high tech make thumbhole stocks?

brstephe:
Well, I can't resist sticking my 2 cents in here.
I'd get a pre-64, mod. 70. in .270 Win or 30-06 and have it gone over. If it wasn't accurate enough for me (an inch or less), I'd rebarrel with a 22" Krieger barrel. Replace the trigger? Yeah, maybe. What ever you do, lose the scope and that godawful thumbhole stock. For a scope, you don't need anything more than a good quality 2-7x - trust me on this. Replace the stock with a good quality fiberglass one. I don't have a lot of experience here but think something lika a McMillan.
You're talking sheep hunting here - ya want light weight. If you get a .270 Win., you can load 150 gr. bullets to 2950 fps and they'll work for moose and anything else here in AK. short of brown bears and yes, I'm including the interior grizzly. While I'm not a proponent of shooting at game animals beyond about 300 yds., this outfit should be good for coyotes, etc. at the ranges you're talking about.
In closing, when all is said & done, rather than going the route you mention, I'd also look at a Kimber, Mod. 8400 in .270 Win. I personally see little worth in the short mags but they're something new. I've looked into the .270 WSM and see little value of an increase of about 100 - 150 fps over my .270 Win. If it were me, I'd stick to the standard chamberings. You wanted opinions & you got 'em.
Bear in Fairbanks

quote:

Originally posted by Woodjack:
I dont know if you want to stick with a popular chambering or not, but I like the sound of a rem700-300saum.
Have you seen this one... Pics
from post below,

https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=978105556#978105556

That is an impressive rifle. I would like to stick to a popular chambering so that in the event I travel to hunt and for some reason I don't get to bring my reloads I can at least purchase off the shelf ammo to save the hunt.

His barrel is lighter than the one I chose the shilen #3 so that makes me think that maybe I can get away with a lighter #2 shilen.

I wonder how much difference it would really make to go with a borden or rimrock action? The rimrock would almost double the cost of the receiver, but if it is lighter and more accurate than a factory rem 700 it might be worth it.

Anyone know exactly how much a rem 700 SA weighs? Rimrock SA is 25 oz, borden alpine is 26.

Last time I checked a 308 and a 300Mag had the same bore diameter, case capacity has nothing to do with it. I know an old timer that kills deer every year with a 22 Hornet. It works but there are better choices. Feeding will not be an issue if you take it to a smith that knows what he is doing and works out all the bugs. All hunting rifles I have get feeding and function checked before they leave the shop.

Weight makes a rifle easier to hold still. Shooter error does not show up as much. Big heavy duty parts are going to weigh alot in the end. The rifle you have in mind will be a neat rifle. I would use all of your parts go BIGGER on the barrel contour and have a hell of a varmit rifle. Then build your self a #2 countor, High tech stock thumper. I think you want your cake and a piece of it to. Not happening. Steel, tactical parts weight alot. Light wieght aluminum and titainium is what gets the weight down. Unfortunatly you can not get both.

quote:

I travel to hunt and for some reason I don't get to bring my reloads I can at least purchase off the shelf ammo to save the hunt.

Well, JMHO, but if that's the bottom line, then I would choose the 30-06 and never look back.
I like the idea of the Winchester Featherweight in 30-06. I've been casing the gunshows looking for one myself. The 30-06 can also be loaded up a bit hotter than factory ammo which is a plus.
Regarding scopes. Since when does one need a scope suitable for astronomy to humt big game?
I'm about as blind as a bat and I do right well with a plain old 4X scope. One rifle, a custom mauser in 7x57 will do .75" with Winchester factory 145 gr. ammo and the rifle has a 2.75X scope. If I can see it though that scope out to about 500 yards, I can damn well hit it.
I buy a lot of my guns secondhand. Most came with a 3x9X scope on it. After sighting in, they get set at 3X and left there. Ican only remember one time I used 9X on a hunt. Ity was a special doe hunt. The deer was out at 250 yards according to my rangefinder. The question was, did it have horns, or was it bald? My 7X binocular just couldn't let me tell. I cranked up to 9X and when the deer moved it's head, I saw a bald head. I took the shot and bang/flop.
FWIW, the rifle was a Ruger 77 RSI. The one with the Mannlicher style stock. Bullet was a 165 gr. Speer Hot-Core over 49.0 gr. of W-760 for 2550 FPS. Nope, not a speed demon load, bit it did the job on that deer, just as it has done the job on several other deer. The rifle is extremely fussy about what I shoot in it and that just happens to be the best load in that rifle. Guess what? Those bullets don't bounce off deer.
I figure that if a feller wants to build up a rifle to his own special specifications, well hell, go ahead. However, I do believe in the K.I.S.S. principle.
Paul B.

J,
I would seriously look into the new reticles that zeiss manufactuers. Also if cost is no option a Diavari would out perform a Leupy.

Find yourself a Ti Rem in 7-08 and load it with TSX's and top it with a nice 2-8 power scope.

Lightweight and with quality bullets and a quality shooter - should do EVERYTHING you want.

I just went through the same deal.I picked up a used Rem.Ti and had a 24" Krieger barrel Fluted and chambered for 280 Ackley Imp.Put on a Brown Prec.1 lb`er stock glassed in the action.Right now its a tad under 6 Lbs.I have some Talley light weight rings& mts.I am looking at scopes now.The whole deal should only be a Tad over 7 lbs when together.I know its gonna shoot.I guess I have a hang up about that 280 AI.Good luck . OB

It is definitely a good idea to stay with a .30 caliber round.

I don't understand the lightweight thing. I have hunted frequently with dudes who would be doing alot better just to lose a couple pounds. Plus, they complain that their rifles kicks bad for a .30-06. No joke, it weighs only 6 lbs!
Enough of my diatribe!!!

I would personally get Remington Sendero in 300WM or 300RUM. They are really good shooting rifles out of the box, and MUCH cheaper than a custom rig. Top it with a Burris Black Diamond in 4-16x and it'll kill. For the whole rig, it is pretty cheap, too. All up weight should be around 10-ish lbs, not bad for a 1/2 MOA rifle with 4000+ ft/lbs of muzzle energy.



cheers~

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
30-06 in a Winchester featherweight.....they're still available on the used market.
As good as it gets!

I second Vapodog