The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles 338 Fed or 8x57Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I have two actions: (1) I have a short action Ruger 77 MkII SS, which is perfect for the 338 Fed. No modifications to the action required. (2) I also have a great VZ24 just waiting for a new barrel. This action will remain in the military specs for the feed rails, and ramp, magazine, follower, etc., using 1909 bottom metal. Of course the safety, trigger, etc will be changed, and scope bases attached. Obviously either will make a great project, and the results are predictable and desirable. Assume handloads, and the use of 200 gr bullets in either - 8x57 on the VZ; or 338 Fed on the Ruger. Which would you prefer, and why? I just can't decide, and I think I would like either, but I just want to read your thoughts. I could have asked the question another way. Why do we need the 338 Fed when the 8x57 is a proven old timer? But I chose to not ask it that way. I can choose one or the other, and alternatively put a 7x57 on the VZ, or a 7mm 08 on the Ruger. KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | ||
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Do like I did, make one of each.  Aut vincere aut mori | |||
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neither! 9x57 mauser and shoot plinker 357 pistol bullets!!!!! http://www.african-hunter.com/9x57_mauser.htm 9x57 a.i.  577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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I would go for the .338 only because you didn't mention the .358 Win. Nothing wrong with the 8x57 but it's going to be a tight fit in the short action if you want to use longer bullets. Lou **************** NRA Life Benefactor Member | |||
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Since I own an 8x57JS (in a Rem 700 Classic) I was curious to see how the 8x57 compared to the .338 Federal so I put together this chart.   RWS - http://www.rws-munition.de/en/rws_ruag/rws_ruag.htm Sellier & Bellot - http://www.sellier-bellot.cz/ and http://www.sb-usa.com/ I chronographed the Sellier & Bellot 196 gr SPCE ammo in my Rem 700 Classic and it averaged 2647 fps (factory spec of 2592): Sellier & Bellot 196 gr SPCE factory ammo Chrono Summary Date: 6/6/2004 Rifle: Rem Model 700 Classic Barrel: 24" Average Velocity: 2,647 fps (instrumental) Average Energy: 3,050 ft lb High Velocity: 2,667 fps Low Velocity: 2,636 fps Extreme Spread: 31 fps Standard Deviation: 10 fps The 8x57 and .338 Federal are very close, at least with the listed factory loads from Federal so far. It will be interesting to see some actual chronograph results from a sporter rifle of .338 Federal ammo to see how closely it matches the stated factory specs. Personally, I like the old, classic cartridges so I'd go with the 8x57. It would be a natural in your VZ-24. -Bob F. | |||
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great info b.f. but you cant beat the pistol bullets for deer to wood chucks and plinking...9x57 a.i. say i 5 cent to 1 buck xpb's pistol bullets 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Wow, I am impressed. Thanks ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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They are so close it's a coin flip. I would go .338 because of the variety of good bullets available in the USA. If I lived in Europe, I would probably go 8x75. LIFE IS NOT A SPECTATOR'S SPORT! | |||
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https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=804100114#804100114 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Kabluewy, By the way, the 8x57 knocks the snot out of Warthogs!!!   Handload: 220gr Woodleigh RN at 2400 fps / Rifle: Rem 700 Classic Yep, that's exactly how we found him after my shot; "rubber side up". -Bob F.  | |||
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Boomie, I like the idea of the 9x57, for all the reasons you like it. I like the 338x57 and of course the 358 Winnie too. But, you see, I have a 35 whelan, and a 9.3x57, both on Mauser '98 actions. By all means, I want to avoid redundency!!!  ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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Bob, I was wondering about that 220 gr Woodleigh, and whether it was for the mags or if it would be good in the 8x57. You apparantly answered that question - very well. I noticed that Pac Nor offers a 9" twist .323 barrel. Is that a twist you would recommend or is the 10" twist correct for the 220 gr 8mm at 8x57 speeds? KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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do you mean whelEn??? 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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Danm spiell chackers!!  They are tricky. Did you ever have your posting "Mauser" converted into "Mouser"? ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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just trying to respect the great col. whelen  577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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How many of you have fired a 8x57 with 220 gr bullets loaded up to say 2400 fps? I have, believe me I'm not recoil sensitive, but out of a 98 Mauser, they will pound you pretty good. My friend even split the stock on his 98 Mauser trying to get to 2400 frp with a heavy bullet. I agree thought that the 8x57 is a great round. I'll tell you of an old round that falls inbetween the two we're discussing here and that the 8x56R for the Steyr M95's. That puppy isn't any slouch in the velocity department for as old as it is and the weight of bullet is shoots. By the way the groove diameter on it is suppose to be .329 but most I've examined are about .330 to .331, that's why I mentioned it's inbetween the 8x57 and the 338 Federal. | |||
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kbluewy...if you do my wildcat idea of a 57mm version of the 375 ruger in either 338 8mm 35 you will have a reeeel killer! the 358 will equal the 358 norma ect 577 BME 3"500 KILL ALL 358 GREMLIN 404-375 *we band of 45-70ers* (Founder) Single Shot Shooters Society S.S.S.S. (Founder) | |||
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MP, I checked Hogden load data, and see that 2400 fps in 8x57 with 220 gr bullet is reasonable, from a pressure standpoint. It's a safe load, but I'm sure the recoil is noticable, but I would expect the same from the 30-06 using 220 gr bullets. Another interesting rimmed 8mm cartridge is the one the Finnish made from the 7.62x53R brass. Not widely known though. KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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I've got a 9.3x338 WM in the works, and that is my last and only wildcat. Maybe I comitted to it before Ruger announced the 375 Ruger. If I had known, I would have waited and used the non-belted brass. KB ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ ~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~ | |||
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If you handload, use the one that pleases you more. If you don't handload, you are likely to find more loads for the 8x57 than for the .338 Federal. Also, you can get cheap military surplus 8X57 from time to time, if that is of any interest to you. "How's that whole 'hopey-changey' thing working out for ya?" | |||
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Kabluewy, If I remember correctly, my Rem 700 Classic has a 1-9.5" twist. It stabilizes the 220 gr Woodleigh RN bullets just fine. My handload groups right around 1 1/8 inches, on average, at 100 yards. I've also got a box of the 8mm (.323") 250 gr Woodleigh RN bullets. According to Woodleigh's catalog, they can be loaded to around 2250 fps in the 8x57. That should be a great load in the bushveld. I haven't gotten around to trying to work up any loads yet, though. -Bob F. | |||
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Well, recoil is a subjective thing, of course. I don't find the recoil of the 220 gr load in the 8x57 to be objectionable in my rifle. Frankly, I find the recoil to be relatively mild. Of course, I do own some big boomers like a .375 H&H , a .416 Rigby (both in Ruger M77 RSMs) and a .470 Nitro Express double rifle (Merkel). Compared to them, the 8x57 is a sweetheart. Also, I'm just an old fashioned kind of guy.... I've actually hunted with the 220 gr RN in the .30-06. Why? Largely just to be old fashioned and nostalgic. And, frankly, just for the heck of it. It worked just great, by the way. My handload in the .30-06 is the 220 gr Woodleigh RN at 2460 fps (chrono'd). Some results from using that load back in 2002 in South Africa:   Red Hartebeest Cheers! -Bob F.  | |||
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Personaly I would go with the .338 Federal for your ruger. and either the .257 roberts or a 6.5 either the sweded or the 6.5S284 for your VZ-24. I have a VZ sitting here too But I don't know what I am going to do with it yet. Mabye a 6mm REM 35 whelen ack imp 300 win mag or anything in beetween. ...tj3006 freedom1st | |||
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Underused, underestimated, and exceptional! The penetration is amazing and so is the killing power beyond what you would expect. I have used it from wild steer/bulls, to feral hog, black bear, elk, etc.........The only thing I like mnore is the 300 grain load in my 333_OKH. The heavy for caliber bullets around 2400-2600 fps is amazing. But Selous, Bell, Patterson, RC Andrews, Kittenburger, etc would be laughing that we forgot this! | |||
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I'd take heavy sectional density bullets at 2200 to 2400 anyday, than a bullet with low sectional density and high velocity.... I have always considered the 06 with the 220 grain RN at its best! People spend a little time looking at trajectory charts... and they will find, that 200 fps less velocity doesn't really loose that much MPBR....and that can be compensated for by a few clicks up on the scope's elevation knob... or it will be irrelevant if one uses a mil dot reticle.. and knows HOW to use it... | |||
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Yeah, I really like the heavy bullet at 2400-2600 philosophy. Here's my handloads that I have hunted with so far: .30-06 --- 220gr RN at 2460 fps 8x57JS --- 220gr RN at 2400 fps 9.3x62 --- 286gr RN at 2390 fps .375 H&H - 300gr RN at 2480 fps Hmmm.... seems like there is a pattern there.  -Bob F. | |||
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There's that, but the .323" bullets of the same weight can have better B.C.'s, so could hold up better downrange. However, the .338's probably hit a little harder due to being bigger around?? "Bitte, trinks du nicht das Wasser. Dahin haben die Kuhen gesheissen." | |||
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Just went through the same debate. i have a Rem 600 action and a 1910 Mex Mauser, both needing barrels. I chose the 338 Fed, no paticular reason, other than there will hopefully be more factory stuff floating around soon. Plus I have 2 other custom 600's, a 223 and 7-08 so I now have 3 to cover about anything I will hunt. | |||
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Agreed, these are serious loads. With 100 fps pruned in all cases, bullet performance is even better. At short to medium range, the loss of bullet mass, that results in decreased momentum, cannot be made up with increased velocity. Always pick the best bullet that is available to you. However, what is needed to take an animal is yet another question and that is why we can get by today with less SD as premium bullets retain much more weight than conventional bullets that are so frangible. Chris | |||
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I think it all comes down to are you going to reload for both of the cartridges. The 338 federal loads get their velocity using High Energy powder that the handloader just can't duplicate. Reload data is already available and your looking at 2550 fps with a 200 grain bullet from a 24" barrel. So 2500 fps looks like the norm from a 20-22" barrel. If you stick to factory loads then the 338 is a good cartridge. | |||
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In the vz24 go with the 8x57.In the short action go with the 338Fed. Actually,there is little or no difference between the to rounds so it really boils down to which round fits which action best. I've used the 8x57 on several hunts in the last 10 years and its one of my favorites.All though its been around since the late 1800's it still holds its own.I keep one at my cabin on the Yentna River in Ak. for a camp rifle.My loads are either 200gr. nos/par at 2600fps or 250gr. woodleighs at 2350 fps. Both of these loads shoot fine out of this rifle but the 250gr. woodleighs shoot under an inch. Anyway, this should give you a good idea what you can expect from the 8x57 if you didn't already know. As far as the 338Fed is concerned, I have no expereance with it but I can't imagine it being much different from the 8x57 ballisticly or in its effect on game. Steve | |||
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