Just some simple questions and discussion.

In regard to elk class game, Do you find .338 200-225gn pills offer you any greater results over 180-200gn 30-06,have you found 180gn.338 pills letting you down compared to 180gn30-06?
Now on the other side of the coin,
This is the performance a NF285gn.375cal/2300fps can have.
If one launched .338 275gnAFrame near 2300fps, would one expect much less performance than that 285gn.375cal?
So is .338/06 close to a N.A.game hunters ideal,or jack of all trades Leatherman with too much for the lighter end of the game spectrum and not enough at the other to be of any great value to you?
Some inspiration from Hagn/Martini website: pre64.338/06.





If a person can persuade a slick design 225gn.33806 to do 2650fps, it fills a nice spot.
I say this based on 338win I had 230fs@2800mv. Those somewhat inefficient shaped slugs sailed through at 350yds,quick dead game,plent of blood, and bullet never to be found.
Load .338-06 225IB/AB or 225MRX at 2650,and it aint very far behind .338win230Fs in downrange numbers,and no doubt nicer to fire.

225IB/AB(.550bc)2650mv..300yd-2185v/2385e
+2.08(100yd)-8.5(300yd)
230fs---(.471bc)2800mv....300yd-2242v/2567e
+1.83(100yd)-7.8(300yd)

I use my 300WM with 180gr Accubonds for my big game hunting in Alberta. I am debating on doing up a rifle in the 338-06. I personally dont think it will make a differnce overall compared to my 300WM but its different rifle to have.

As everything in hunting, bullet placement is the key, specially more with the smaller calibers. My wife took her bull moose last season with her Tikka T3 LS 270WSM with 140gr Accubonds @ 325metres. She did a second shot to anchor the bull as I did not want it to make it into the timber. Both shots were double lung complete pas thru & the bull went 10 metres from the first shot.

Would the bull have dropped on my 300WM -may/maybe not, but it goes to show that larger caliber size does not always mean better performance on big game.

Woodjack,


As I have posted in other threads, I am a very big fan of the 338-06.

My experience goes back to hunting elk with 270 Win's. The first few that we shot definitely died, but they didn't really act like they were hit. I was used to the reaction of deer/antelope with the 270's.

So I drew a premier elk tag in Wyoming (1997). Went out and bought a 338 WM. Shot a nice bull and a cow the following year. Could definitley see a differentce in the reaction.

Went through a very serious bowhunting phase. For some crazy reason, thought I didn't need the 338 and didn't care for the recoil. Sold it.

So I decide to buy another dedicated elk rifle. I researched all the possibilities but it came down to the 8mm, 338, or 35 on an -06 case. On paper the 338 seemed to have a slight edge. I have since shot three more elk and quite a few deer with the 338-06.

I have used the
210 TSX's (1 elk)
210 NP's(2 elk and a deer)
200gr Hornady SP's for deer (1/2 dozen)

If I could only pick one bullet, I would have to go with the TSX. I shot two at my last bull. The final shot broke the front shoulder ball socket into four pieces, went through the boiler room, shattered the liver and exited behind the last rib. This was a 250+ yard shot. The first shot killed him, but I had the opportunity for a second and took it.

I have seen/shot elk elk with 243, 270, 7 mag, 30-06, 300 Win, 338-06, 375 H&H.

In my limited expierence, the 338's and bigger hit harder.

Of course on must fully realize that shot placement trumps everything.

SD is wise. I pretty much stay w/ the 210grNP. It's worked well for me from Duiker to elk, zebra, Kude & everything inbetween. Since I have only recovered a single 210grNP, I haven't ventured far from using that bullet exclusively.
I see little value in a 275gr "hard" bullet like the Swift @ 2300fps. At much beyond 150yds, I doubt it will expand much. Maybe the old Speer 275gr but just about any 250gr bullet will completely penetrate elk size game from reasonable angles & reach vitals on hard 1/4ing shots. Pushed @ 2500fps, it is a great performer for woods hunting where shots will be under 250yds. Much beyond that, I want a bit more vel. for better expansion & a bit flatter traj. Even w/ a 210grNP @ 2750fps, it starts running out of gas much beyond 325yds IMO.
I've never been a big fan of the 'X' bullets but am trying the 185gr TSX. Accuracy is good & it can be pushed to 2850fps w/o bending anything.

it is an unsophistcated 318 w.r.
shoot 250 grains in keeping with the w.r. or just shoot an 06 with heavy 220's

why shoot light in the 338-06? yes the 210 np's will work for almost anything.

quote:

If one launched .338 275gr A-Frame near 2300fps, would one expect much less performance than that 285gn.375cal?

Now for the second part of the equation.
Define performance.
1. most penetration?
2. most energy transfer?

As long as the bullets are both A-frames, the 375 will hit harder because of bigger diameter and I'm assuming higher velocity.

The 338 will penetrate deeper, maybe? Velocity being the trump card.

Would definitely have to do some testing on that theory.

I played around with some 275 and 300gr cup and core bullets in my 338-06, but felt I was on a fool's errand because any premium 250gr bullet will do anything that those two weights in that bullet construction would do. Of course the 338, 275gr A-Frame might do better, but I think the A-Frames are a little softer (from what I have read) and may not penetrate as much as a stoutly built 250gr such as a TSX, Northfork, or NP etc.

I feel a 250gr premium in a 338-06 will do everything asked. With the exception of a few circumstances. Elephant, rhino and hippo come to mind. But then we are probably getting into the the realm of unrealistic for 99.999% of hunters.

I will end by saying that a 250gr bullet out of a 338 is not needed for most situations. The premium bullets have emphasized that even more.

If I was to ever hunt Buffalo with a 338-06. Not my first choice by a long shot. I would load up some 250gr softs (TSX's or Northforks) and solids. Depending on what the PH wanted/ prefered. Have them shoot to the same point of impact and make dang sure the first shot counted.

Now, there's one beautiful rifle!

The 338/06 is just a well-balanced cartridge for most game. Some say that you lose the advantage of bore size when you use lighter bullets, but I have found that the 210 partition is an excellent match that performs all out of proportion to expectations. For the ranges and game that most people shoot, it works very well. I use the original 330/06 aka the .318 W.R. with 250 gr. Woodleighs and their performance and penetration on plains game was excellent from impala to zebra. Loafing along at 2350 fps, complete penetration in all cases at ranges averaging 150 yds. with mild recoil in a trim package. My wife liked it so much that she took it away from me, forcing me to order a 318 barrel from LW to build me a new custom rifle! The modern version .338/06 just has better bullet selection and is a bit more practical. It really is a tough act to beat! Just my .02 Lee.
P.S. Woodjack, Thanks for the beautiful picture, I am going to use that as my reference for how I want my new .318 to look!

A good 225gr bullet seems just right for the 338-06 but I have never been able to get any to shoot well in mine. If I slow them down to 2550fps, I can get acceptable accuracy (1-1.5moa). Yet w/ 250gr anythings @ 2450fps, I can get reliable 1moa. Same w/ 210grNP or 200grNAB @ 2750fps. The 225gr just will not shoot at the vel. I am looking for (2600fps+).

www.z-hat.com
338 hawk and 225's

225 gr. Hornady, IMR4320, CCI 200 primer Powder Velocity
60.5 gr. 2775
61 gr. 2801 Maximum

225's @ 2800!!!that is on par with the win mag! yes it is a max load but hey...

The .338/'06 is merely a .333 OKH. This proved to be one of the best cartridges ever ginned up for moist NA hunting. But personally, for elk shooting, I have had just as many drop within 100 yards from a 175-grain Nosler partition from the 7mm Rem. Mag. as I have from any other rifle, including the .375 H&H.

When shooting elk, placement is everything!! Just as it is with any other living animal!!

In my experience, neither big nor super-fast bullets will compensate for poor hits.

BTW, that is a really beautiful rifle you have there!

The HAWK is an IMPROVED ctg, so back down that charge weight of 4320 for a standard.

My std chamber did 2670 in a 23"

My 338/06 on a Model 70 Action, has always done well with plain jane Hornady 200's 225's and 250s, both SP and RN...

If it is in North America, and isn't an Alaskan Brown Bear of Big Grizzley, there isn't a game animal in NA or SA that can't be easily taken by a 338/06...

In the 338 bore, I don't think you need a premium bullet... they are nice to have, but the standard stuff performs plenty darn good!

Mine shoots 200 grainers at 2900 fps
225 grainers at 2750 to just short of 2800 fps
and 250 grainers at about 2650 fps...with a hot load making 2700, but I don't see the gain of an extra 50 fps....

But ya know, I have always been fond of a 30/06 with a 220 grain Nosler Partition... and I don't think there is a thing that it can't take given the above parameters also! with an MV of 2600 to 2650 fps... you have a pretty potent round there also!!!

quote:

If it is in North America, and isn't an Alaskan Brown Bear of Big Grizzley, there isn't a game animal in NA or SA that can't be easily taken by a 338/06...

HUH????? I've had NO problem flattening big brown bears with a .338-06... I in fact built it as my "crawl through the brush" brown bear rifle and it has never let me down...

I've put "tons" of meat my freezer with my 338-06 over the years, and if i was doing in all over again, i'd do it the same way the next time around.

I've never felt under gunned in the bush while carrying it...

DM

Nice stock, 2.5-8x?, looks nice, bet it shoots well.

22"?

What load do you settle on, or loads ie. brownies? Guessing partitions 225 or 250's.

I took a CRF Win M70 Sporter and rebarreled with a 24" Lilja that matched the factory taper. Added a set of fixed sights, regulated for 50 yds. Also mounted a 2.5-8X in Talleys.

The gun was done a few days before I was to leave for RSA in 2000. I worked up a load with 250 gr Swift A-Frames and literally did the final sight in by headlight, the night before we left.

I killed several heads of game from impala to a large Eland, all with one shot, no drama. Recovered a few bullets and they looked picture perfect.

When I got home I found out they were only going about 2400 fps.

My "go to" load is now the 225 NP at 2600 fps. Took a few deer and a mature bull elk over the past few years....again all one shot kills.

I'm a big fan of the .338-06 seems to be ALL one really needs for most of NA or for African Plains game.

FN in MT

A guy I know ,
Who hunts all over the world, uses a .338 06 alot and he really likes the 185 grain barnes tripple shock.
I Don't know how much better it works that the 180 grain from the origional 06, but he uses has enough faith in them I would certainly tryum out.
I may build a .338 06 one day, but I have a whelen and I like that just fine...tj3006

FN, thanks for the posts, I think it matters not 2400, as a 250 would likely do no more than 2500-2550 max anyway with top load, safely.

Nothing will know the difference hit. Now MY choice was the 225 PT as an all around load.

I think any animal needing killing by a 338-06 can be done in well with a 225 if hit decent. Guy in Oregon-gunsmith busted a bull elk breaking both shoulders with 225 at around 370 yds-that was his go to load with IMR 4320, mine clocked 2670 in 23", using WW brass partial size.

The 185 x is impressive and heard good things, would be a top pick in the 338 Federal, but I want to believe a 225 in an '06 case would hold energy better 300-400 yds if needed. Penetration may be close, perhaps not, testing would have to be done to know.

Thanks again.

I happened upon 1000 Hornady 225 Grain spitzers a while back so in order to use thme up I built this:



It shoots itty bitty groups with AA2230C and I've never even bothered to chronograph them. Shoots great, kills things dead, good enough!

quote:

Nice stock, 2.5-8x?, looks nice, bet it shoots well.
22"?
What load do you settle on, or loads ie. brownies? Guessing partitions 225 or 250's.

My fav bullet choise for big bears in the 275 Speer.... It just works great at .338-06 velocities... Second choise in 250 NP's...

I really don't care for anything lighter than 250's in this round, as i've had much better performance out of the heavier bullets on big game...

Yes it's a 22" bbl... and 2.5x8 Leupold scope..

DM

DM,

Im very interested to know what vel. you achieved with the 275gn....

I love my .338-06 but I have yet to kill anything but paper with it. I have some Nosler 210 grain that I've been wanting to load but the rifle shoots so well with the 200 grain Hornady SP I've yet to break the seal on that box. I might try the rifle on Pronghorn this year as that is the only rifle tag that I have.

quote:

Originally posted by taylorce1:
I love my .338-06 but I have yet to kill anything but paper with it. I have some Nosler 210 grain that I've been wanting to load but the rifle shoots so well with the 200 grain Hornady SP I've yet to break the seal on that box. I might try the rifle on Pronghorn this year as that is the only rifle tag that I have.

I was up in WY a few weeks ago shootin prarie dogs and the property I was on was chock full of Pronghorn. Some damn fine bucks!

I'd need to find the 35mm film can with my spent slug, but the bull I killed with the 225 NP was well over 300 yds. IIRC it was lasered at 335 or 350. Hit him and he went maybe 20 yds and went down. Got both lungs and broke a shoulder.

I've never been a fan of the Barnes slugs as I got shafted with some early slugs (1998)that REALLY varied in length, weight and hardness. They never made good on them so no more Barnes for me. I refuse to spend fifty bucks a box to TEST for them. So can't speak regarding their lt wt slugs in .33 cal.

The Swift 250 gr A-Frames at 2400 or less were really more bullet than I needed considering the velocity. But they worked well on eland,waterbuck and a few blue wildebeest. Only found a few, most sailed on through.

The 225 NP is IMHO a pretty nice compromise between weight and velocity. Thats currently the load I use for elk.

Can't beat the poor mans .318 WR !!

FN in MT

Sorry looks like I got FN and DM post mixed up.

Z1r, that rifle is boring you, send that ugly gun to me for proper disposal.

Also, were the 275's discontinued. No question they are effective, I believe Ole Elmer used them in the OKH.

You can still find some Speer 275gr/338 around, but they have been discontinued. You can use the Swift, but it's a hard bullet @ the vel. you'ld get from the 338-06. I know a gunshop nearby that has a couple boxes on a shelf I could snag if someone were interested?
I know many die hard 338-06 guys like FN & 6.5BR have no use for the "light" bullets in their 338-06s but the 210grNP is a great performer @ 2750-2800fps, not much stops them & they expand beautifully out to 300yds+.

quote:

DM,
Im very interested to know what vel. you achieved with the 275gn....

2,350 fps, and the 250 NP's work quite well too, and would be my second choise...

DM

quote:

Originally posted by fredj338:
You can still find some Speer 275gr/338 around, but they have been discontinued. You can use the Swift, but it's a hard bullet @ the vel. you'ld get from the 338-06. I know a gunshop nearby that has a couple boxes on a shelf I could snag if someone were interested?
I know many die hard 338-06 guys like FN & 6.5BR have no use for the "light" bullets in their 338-06s but the 210grNP is a great performer @ 2750-2800fps, not much stops them & they expand beautifully out to 300yds+.

Fred, I love the 338/06, but to make sure you understand my thoughts, past/present, I think a 200 ballistic tip is a helluva deer bullet at 2900/using 4064, I smacked a few, and it works! Darned well, and BC is good/ and it held together, NICE mushroom on the one I recovered-large buck, from last of ribs angled thru to shoulder and stuck under hide.

Now a 180 ballistic tip to ME from ballistic reading I have done seems inferior to the 200. Yes a 200 is likely a tad longish for a 338 federal, but not in the /06 case. Now personally a 225 partition was my go to load when I took it elk hunting as it dropped perhaps 1-2" more, was 1.25" accurate at 200 yds, AND had more energy, so I said why not bump it up 15 grains. Is it needed, probably not or rarely would it make a difference between kill or not kill, but I wanted to maximize the potential, and I think a good 225/'06 case can do it, on paper.

As to your experience, I would never recommend you change anything, as your combo has never let you down, a testament to the 210 pt!

The 210 gr Partition is tough to beat and has worked well for me on elk, nilgai and, of course, deer and hogs. My last elk was taken using the 185 gr TSX and while the bull just collapsed at the behind the shoulder shot I was surpirsed at the shape of the recovered bullet found after punching through the off shoulder. Range was a lazered 270 yards. Note that Barnes highly recommends the 185 gr X in the 338 Mag...

The bullet,



And the bull,

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:



Now, there's one beautiful rifle!

It appears it is now For SALE:
http://www.martiniandhagngunmakers.com/forsale.htm

With experience with two .338/06's and one new one for a grandson, I've been impressed by the effectiveness of this cartridge. The bullet used most by a friend and I has been the Nosler PT 210 grainer, with the 225gr Hornady second. Either bullet has performed extremely well. Haven't recovered a Nosler yet. Recoil seems light compared with say a .300WM and 180gr bullets. Accuracy has also been excellent. If I were to hunt the big bears with it, I'd probably go up some in bullet weight. But, for elk and mule deer, the 210gr NP has proven to be THE bullet

I just returned last week from Namibia where I used my 338-06 for the first time on PG. My bias in 338 is for the 225gr.

My Mauser shoots the 225 Northfork to .5 inch, and the Barnes TSX 225 to .75 inch. I waited too long this season to order the Northforks, and discovered Mike was out of them, so I took the Barnes. My load is a modest 2500fps using IMR4350.

I took all manner of plains game from approxiamtely 100 meters out to 200 meters and had no problems. We recovered 4 bullets, but most penetrated through and through. Two bullets tumbled after travelling through thorn bush, but still hit their mark and resulted in fatal wounds, although I made follow-up shots as insurance in each case.

I have shot PG with the 300 Wea, the 338 Win Mag, the 375 H&H, and now the 338-06. The 338-06 performed like a champ on it's first time out, and did all I asked of it.

Given the fact one can put the 338-06 in a smaller, lighter, more compact rifle, I think it makes a wonderful package for any of the larger elk/plains game animals.

Next year I'll be going with a 35 Whelen, shooting 250gr Northforks, to add to my experience.

Use good bullets and hit 'em where you're supposed to!!!!!!!!!!!!

TWL, the 225NF in my .338-06 shoots the same .6" @100yds. with 2501 avg. and find as you have that it is just fine with the Ak. moose I shot. One complete pass thru and one recovered-weight is 189 grn.
May have another built by next spring, not sure.

An 8lb.33806 Ttsx225@2650 that has85% of the recoil of an 9lb.338win250NP@2650,
has a lot of sensible/practicle/effective appeal to me.

My 338-06 was a pre 64 fwt 30-06 in its first life. Had the barrel bored to 338 last summer and took it to NWT for moose and caribou. Took the bou at 247 yards, 225 gr NP was torn up on the off side skin but did its work. The yukon moose was uphill at 180 yards and same bullet entered low left side shoulder, penetrated thru the heart and lodged against far side skin. Guide at the shot was running all over trying to locate the moose for follow-up shot that was never to come. Moose dropped at the shot like hit by a hammer of thor. This bullet was a perfect mushroom and maintained about 65% of weight.

Will be taking it to NM for oryx in two weeks. Rifle with Leo 1.75X6E comes in just under 8' fully loaded and is easy on the shoulder. It wears a G&H black McM stock in its current configuration.

I had a ruger M 77 International re-built to .338-06, so it has a realitively short barrel, only 18 in. I've used the 250 grain Noslers with very impressve results on Blacktails and Black bear. I'm wanting to load the 185 grain Barnes to hopefully get more range from the round. Out to 200 yds, no problem with the 250's but what do you think I could expect from the 185's with the short barrel? Hoping to try it on elk next year. thanks for any input.

JohnB, I would think you could get somewhere between 2750 to 2850 with a 185 TSX. Powders in the 4064 range should work great.