I tried several of the original Barnes X bullets when they were first availible in Canada. Some rifles experienced a lot of copper fouling and some shot the X bullets very well. The original bullets I used were in 30 cal 8mm,338 and 416 . The bullet I was most impressed with was the 200 gr 8mm in my 8 mm Rem. This bullet dropped elk and moose like no bullet I had ever used and that included Partions. I never recovered any of these bullets from game. They always passed through and there was always some expansion. Game never went very far. When the TSX bullets came out I started trying some of them in the smaller calibres,7mm 277 & 6.5mm . Certainly less copper fouling and I believe they open a little quicker than the original X bullets did.Certainly more bang flops. I have now taken close to 20 animals with the X and TSX bullets and have recovered exactly one bullet. It was a 277 cal 130 gr fired from a 270 wby into the chest of a large Saskatchewan whitetail buck. It was picture perfect,all 4 petals folded back and it weighed 129 1/2 grs. These bullets do not expand as much as a common cup & lead core bullet do but they sure do penetrate. I find it very interesting that some people claim to have experienced multiple failures of these bullets (penciling). One thing I have noticed with the X & TSX is they seem not to deflect off course in an animal. If I can I usually try to take a lung shot but aim for the off shoulder. Through the lungs and out the shoulder on the off side. They seem to deflect less than other bullets that open quicker. I think some people might be better off if they matched the bullet they use to the game they are hunting a little more carefully.

I used these bullets (110 grain TSX)in my little 6.8 SPC bolt rifle I made up for local deer hunting. They group almost into one little hole so accuracy is fantastic. I chose them over the same weight Sierra Game Kings because they shot so well in my rifle. Not that the Game Kings were bad, just the TSX was that much better. Plus all the good reports I've seen on the TSX made me go wwith it.

Performance on game was another matter.

Shot a big white tail doe at 49 yards. The first TSX zipped through her like a FMJ. I shot her again as she turned and the second shot dropped her in her tracks.

When opened up we saw where both bullets traveled through her. The first was a small entry and exit hole, through the lungs, between ribs on both sides. Appeared to be about the same diameter as the original 6.8 bullet.

The second caused massive damage much like what was pictured in above posts and exited.

Maybe it's a function of velocity? Don't know for sure. They worked, but will not be my go to bullet for deer hunting in the 6.8 SPC any longer.

Don't shoot the messenger as I know how popular these bullets are. Just relating my actual shooting and hunting experience.

Still a cocksucker ain't ya! Say hey to the wife for me.

A Steelhead in diguise, how quaint....

Hi Guys

How do you classify this wound - is it pencilling??
I used a copper banded 105gn 7mm @ 3200ft/s KJG from Germany. Similar to TSX but engineered to a finer tolerance.

Entrance wound

Exit wound

The deer was shot at 180yds and dropped 2yds from where I shot it. On examination the lung was clipped but the heart and liver were still fine. As you can see there is very little meat loss or blood shot goo. This is consistent with this brand of bullet.
These bullets operate best at high MV's with loss of the copper 'claws' in the chest cavity. If the tip did not expand then they would tumble like a normal mil spec FMJ possibly exiting backwards (they are quite good at killing to).
Lets face it the bullets we choose to stop buff/ele must pencil, in fact you pay lots of cash to make sure they do, so what are we looking for? If its large exit wounds and dead deer then standard lead copper will help with tracking say wild boar in thick cover - excellent. If its small exit wounds and minimal meat damage than monolithics. Either way good shot placement with either generation of bullet will ensure a quick clean kill.
Select you bullet with care and you wont be disappointed.

Mark

Looks like they kill...I'm just to tight to spend that kind of money on them when everything else I have used has killed great.

A comparison of three recovered bullets.Below are the 180 gr ballistic tip and 180gr tsx out of my 300 ultramag,and a 200gr partition out of my 8mmremmag.The ballistic tip retained a large portion of it's core and retained 62% of it's weight after penetrating both shoulders on a bull elk.The partition shed the entire front core and retained 66% of it's weight after a lung shot that broke one shoulder on a moose.The tsx retained all of it's petals and retained 100% of it's weight after destroying a section of elk spine.As far as frontal area is concerned,all three are similar.(remember that the partition is a slightly larger caliber).

Most important thing not to like, is, they may pencil through.........
Expensive.....
Long for caliber, and weight. (too long in some calibers.)
May copper coat your bore....
Accuracy can be iffy......
Ton's of as good or better deer bullets out there.
Grant.

Do you have proof of penciling? Pictures or just conjecture....

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
Do you have proof of penciling? Pictures or just conjecture....

As I've stated earlier, I have been using TSX exclusively for the past 5 years. They just penetrate too much for a broadside shot in a deer under 200 yards. They are the perfect bullet for medium to large game i.e. elk, moose etc.

But.....for deer shot broadside at 100 yards, they DO pencil. The only TSX I've ever recovered in a (220 lb) deer was one shot in the chest and found in the (back) ham. The only other TSX I've ever recovered was on an elk shot at 279 yards...talk about penetration.......

This past year alone I shot a red stag at 310 yds a black fallow at 296 yds, two mule deer at 224 and 257 yds, and didn't recover one.

All of the whitetails I've shot over the years have had minimal exit wounds. As I said I love TSX bullets and have had great success with them over the years, but I won't use them any more on short shots. I will continue to use them when I hunt big game in my travel rifles whenever I hunt outside Texas/US, but I will no longer use them on deer here at home.

quote:

Originally posted by FMC:

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
Do you have proof of penciling? Pictures or just conjecture....

As I've stated earlier, I have been using TSX exclusively for the past 5 years. They just penetrate too much for a broadside shot in a deer under 200 yards. They are the perfect bullet for medium to large game i.e. elk, moose etc.

[b]But.....for deer shot broadside at 100 yards, they DO pencil. The only TSX I've ever recovered in a (220 lb) deer was one shot in the chest and found in the (back) ham. The only other TSX I've ever recovered was on an elk shot at 279 yards...talk about penetration.......[/B]
This past year alone I shot a red stag at 310 yds a black fallow at 296 yds, two mule deer at 224 and 257 yds, and didn't recover one.

All of the whitetails I've shot over the years have had minimal exit wounds. As I said I love TSX bullets and have had great success with them over the years, but I won't use them any more on short shots. I will continue to use them when I hunt big game in my travel rifles whenever I hunt outside Texas/US, but I will no longer use them on deer here at home.

And the bullets that you recovered were they mushroomed? Did the bullets look like a pencil?
As far as small exit wounds in the hide is concerned, TSX are not the only bullets that do that. A friend of mine shot a Deer day before Christmas with a 270 Win. 130 Grain Partition and the exit in the hide was bullet diameter. Did the bullet Pencil? Hardly, as the lungs were shreded and the internal damage was great. Great penetration does not equal penciling.

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
And the bullets that you recovered were they mushroomed? Did the bullets look like a pencil?

I'm sorry I don't understand the question...it makes no sense!!!!!!!!!!!! The bullets recovered did not exit!!

Besides, it is not the bullets that look like a pencil, it is the wound that does like it was pencilled DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Frankly, I think what happens is that they do fully expand to a perfect X, but the petals are so sharp that they cut their way through the meat cleanly rather than push their way through, hence the pencil effect.

Besides the ol' Interlok's have killed plenty a deer and those fuckers are asccurate out of any rifle. Regardless, I hate rib meat and when I trophy hunt the meat is too goddamn tough, it's going to be Interloks or Trophy Bonded bear claws from now on for me.

I realize that the bullets didnot exit, I believe that was why you were able to recover them.
Penciling as I understand it refers to a bullet that did not open.
All Wounds that I have seen made by TSX produced massive interal damage, even though the exits in the hide are small in comparison to some

My experience is with The X bullet is the same as FNC's.

While chasing my tail trying to find a bullet for my 257 Roy, I tried the X bullet. I was looking for a bullet that would both penetrate and leave an adequate blood trail.

With the first 4 bucks I shot with the X bullet, I thought I had found my bullet. Each shot was a penetration type shot with the bullet either entering in front of front shoulder and existing opposite between last rib and hind quarter or vise versa. Great penetration and an adequate exit wound.

Buck #5 was broadside at 200 yards. At the shot, the buck hit the thick planted pines. There was no blood trail at all. Luckily, I got on the right trail and found the buck at about 60 yards with only a slightly larger than caliber hole.

A day or two later, I shot another nice buck standing in the same tracks as buck #5, broadside again. That buck hit the pines also, but was not to be found. I am certain about a solid shoulder hit. No blood at all.

After 38 bucks with that caliber, I gave up went to the 300WinMag and have never looked back.

Joe A.

In regard to jwp745's post about the Nosler partition, I had the same expeience with them also. I shot 8 or 9 bucks with them and they fell like struck by lighting, but to find the exit hole was like looking for a tick. No blood at all on ground, me, 4 wheeler, or truck. The next two bucks did not drop and finding them was an ordeal with no blood trail. Both was well hit.

Joe A.

quote:

Expensive.....
Long for caliber, and weight. (too long in some calibers.)
May copper coat your bore....
Accuracy can be iffy......
Ton's of as good or better deer bullets out there.
Grant.

I think that covers the things I don't care for about the barnes. Someday when lead is banned and the monometal bullets are the primary replacement I'll give em' a look, until then the paritions and accubonds are working just skippy for me on whitetails.....thanks.

Dave

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
I realize that the bullets didnot exit, I believe that was why you were able to recover them.
Penciling as I understand it refers to a bullet that did not open.
All Wounds that I have seen made by TSX produced massive interal damage, even though the exits in the hide are small in comparison to some

I agree wholeheartedly as to the internal damage, but no blood trail and small exits. They act as if they pencilled. There is absolutely no doubt in my mind they all opened up as they were designed, they just were too efficient and penetrated too rapidly at shorter distances.

Out of: elk 220yds, 279 yds, mule deer 310 yds, 307 yds, 224 yds, 257 yds, red stag 310 yds, fallow 296 yds, I only recovered one of these bullets.

Believe you me, animals=dead, that ought to be enough, how did they fail? They didn't, they're just not well suited for thin skinned game at short distances.

The real shame of it is that I have my rifles dialed in- one holers with TSX.

quote:

They didn't, they're just not well suited for thin skinned game at short distances.

Short distance shooting means higher impact velocities,which in turn means more rapid expansion.They will expand less at longer distances with a lower impact velocity.
Or do you believe that silly myth that the bullet was going too fast,and didn't have time to expand?

quote:

Originally posted by stubblejumper:

quote:

They didn't, they're just not well suited for thin skinned game at short distances.

Short distance shooting means higher impact velocities,which in turn means more rapid expansion.They will expand less at longer distances with a lower impact velocity.
Or do you believe that silly myth that the bullet was going too fast,and didn't have time to expand?

Frankly it beats the fuck out of me. I've killed an absolute shitload of game with them, but I keep scratching my head.........

No. I believe they cut their way through using sharp petals as compared to pushing their way through. In other words, their effective cs diameter is less than of a conventional mushroom..... i.e. they act more like FMJ than an expanding type of bullet.

I don't know what the fuck is going on all I know is I haven't gotten any blood trails on short shots.........................

quote:

I don't know what the fuck is going on all I know is I haven't gotten any blood trails on short shots............

I don't get blood trails with the tsx either.The animal never gets far enough to make one.

I took out my 7Wby out the other day loaded with 140TSXs@ 3300 fps. I took two does with it, one was 105 lb, and the other about 85 or so. Ranges were relatively close, right at 100 or so. I shot the smaller one slightly quartering towards me and she dropped at the shot. Bullet exited behind the off side short ribs leaving a rather large exit hole. The bigger displayed similar results. I fully expected the TSXs to expand little on such small deer and I was wrong. There was surprisingly little blood, but there was massive internal damage and much of the blood remained inside the body cavity.

My reloading bench is slowly transitioning to TSXs even though I am a Swift and North Fork fan, the TSXs are arguably the best bullet for the money out there.

Their one issue is they are too long for normal weights and some have a tendency to tumble. The solution is to go down in weight. I'll wager that a 140gr 7mm will out penetrate a more conventional bullet of 160 or heavier. Also, Randy Brooks much prefers the 350 TSX in the 416 over the 400 for that same reason. Good advice...jorge

....On close range shots why not just shoot them in the hear or top of the neck ????

jorge, you mentioned much of the blood being left inside the body cavity. I have found that to be typical of heart-lung shot deer. Some leave a good blood trail, some do not but I've never had trouble finding a deer that dropped within 60 yards of the shot!

The TSXs shoot well out of my rifles. My "problem" is I shoot a .338 Lapua for both elk and mulies (I put in for a cow tag and buck tag.) On elk the TSX is awesome. On mulies the bullet is a bit "hard" with my setup. Pass throughs are the norm on the mulies and I think a NP or a NF would be better bullet for this application. I am still playing with different bullets and will let you all know of my findings.

John

There is a missconception that the TSX are slow to open, this is not the case.
TSX are very fast opening bullets as this high speed photo will attest

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
There is a missconception that the TSX are slow to open, this is not the case.
TSX are very fast opening bullets as this high speed photo will attest

I cant help but question the density of the balistic gell in this photo looks awfully wet to me.

Strawman419
Thanks for the pictures.

quote:

Originally posted by ted thorn:

quote:

Originally posted by jwp475:
There is a missconception that the TSX are slow to open, this is not the case.
TSX are very fast opening bullets as this high speed photo will attest

I cant help but question the density of the balistic gell in this photo looks awfully wet to me.

Ballistic Gel must be at a specific temperature and this requires a termometor and calibrated with a BB at a specific velocity and this rquires a chronograph, yet you can look at a picture and question it's calibration.
WOW........