The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Medium Bore Rifles Most of today's rifles are mostly plastic and metal no craftmanshipGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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I was looking a bunch of the crop of today's rifles.They are just mainly a bunch of plastic and cheap metal .They bolt like crap .I grew up with good wood and checkering and nice bluing and nice actions.My favorite was the ruger 77 tang safety. THE stock was awesome perfect shape and super smooth action .I used my 338 win mag tang safety for 33 years. I am building a tang safety 260 rem so that I can get what I want. THESE cheap new rifles must be super cheap to build. I just don't see much value in those guns .The ruger American is just hard to bolt to me so is the Remington 783 and most all the other cheap bolt guns .I was told one day it will be rare to see a nice built rifle that's affordable. I am glad I grew up with nice rifles | ||
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Welcome to the modern world. I bought a Savage mod. 25. Compared to the Mausers and mod. 70s I was used to, it is a cheap pos. On the plus side, it shoots 1/2" 3 shot groups. Dave | |||
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It seems like everybody is in a race to the bottom! | |||
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I have a 270Win RAR and haven't felt the bolt being unduly rough, though it isn't as smooth as the guns of yesteryear. On the other hand, all of these Americans and Savages are usually crazy accurate for the money spent and I think that is their selling point. If these guns didn't sell but the finer wood and blue guns did that is what the manufacturers would be concentrating the production resources on because they don't make the market, they just follow it to the money. Dennis Life member NRA | |||
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I had rather put $400 in a used gun or even a sporterized Mauser than invest in one of these new economy rifles. At least I’ll have a good basis for a rifle and can even add features (Trigger, stock, or barrel as needed). Shoot Safe, Mike NRA Endowment Member | |||
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Right; but the market is now, this; young guys want low priced items, and plastic stocks and CNC metal are the way to go; no skilled labor required. And they do not know, or appreciate history. You don't even see wood stocks at gun shops any more; they cost 3 times more. Problem for us who try to promote and build the classic stuff, is that those new ones shoot better than ever. At least they are shooting something. Most of the world has banned guns to some degree. | |||
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I have two Ruger Americans and the bolts are quite smooth......and very accurate. It is what it is. | |||
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The two economy rifles that have are the Ruger American Ranch and the TC Compass. Both have smooth bolts, both are amazing accurate. I did put a laminated wood stock on the TC as it's plastic stock was very very flimsy. The Ruger not so much. I'd rather take one of these rifles out with their plastic stock in the rain then soaking my walnut stocked rifle. Also changes in the wood don't affect these plastic stocked rifles. | |||
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Sadly this is true. My CZ 550 came with a plastic mag plate and follower which CZ gladly replaced with metal ones.... I would buy a HOWA now if i was to purchase new, as far as I can tell they are all metal . | |||
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Back in the day when each rifle was made by and individual gun smith none of the parts were interchangeable. Every part hand made none alike Now they were rifles heck all those mass produce ones are just junk no craftsmanship at all. Put together on a assembly line low cost junk. Heck as soon as they discovered mass production quality went down hill. | |||
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Compared to bygone rifles of fine wood and blued steel there's just a lot less maintenance needed for current brands in Stainless Steel and all weather stocks. Especially if you hunt in climates where the elements ravage the wood and blued steel. All such rifle I formerly owned developed bore pitting after some years of hunting in this environment. On two of them I have replace original barrels with SS. On one I have also replaced the original wooden stock with carbon fibre. In recent years when buying new I have gone with Tikka SS barrels and plastic stocks. The are mass produced but I think manufacture standard is a bit better than some American brands. The bolts cycle smoothly, they feed and eject really well, they are light to carry and the SS barrels clean more quickly and easily and generally you can expect them to shoot accurately. Also I guess they are priced to be a no brainer choice. These days I wouldn't buy a new rifle in "classical" finish. Currently I am having a .375 H&H custom built, mauser action with English / American styled stock but all components are Titanium and Carbon Fibre. Hunting.... it's not everything, it's the only thing. | |||
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You're probably right as CZ only makes the 550 in African calibers now. As for me I'd pick a CZ550 any day over a Howa. I sure wouldn't discount it because of a plastic follower especially if they gave you a metal one. | |||
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As dpcd said the new rifles shoot amazingly accurate. Are you buying a rifle to hand on the wall as an ornament, or are you actually going to use it for a tool to hunt or target shoot? Back in the day rifle makers embellished their rifles. How about cars, you going to complain the about those too saying the old ones were made with pride and all? | |||
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I was about to comment that my 6 or 7 year old CZ 550 American in 9.3x62 with Kevlar stock is probably the best built (and most accurate) rifle I own. Not the smoothest action, but built like a tank. I've never bothered to look to see what parts might be plastic. I own 12 rifles and my favorites are the CZ and two Ruger M77's. Guess I just like Mauser style actions. But, it is hard to bash some of my other rifles with plastic parts (Tikka T3 and Browning X-Bolt) because they also shoot well. Although I'm an older hunter/shooter, I've never owned one of the classic American or European rifles. If I had, I'm sure I would appreciate the workmanship that might be missing from my humble battery of rifles. Start young, hunt hard, and enjoy God's bounty. | |||
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Low Cost Junk? Hardly; Only the low cost is relevant; junk they are not, if you consider how they perform. Now, if you want a work of art, that is another topic. If you want performance at a low cost, like it or not, the new crop of low end rifles, work. I, personally only carry custom made rifles into the field. | |||
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You are a man of great taste. The Ruger 77 with tang safety is also my favorite. I was smart enough to buy a set in the early 80’s. A 30-06, 338 and 458. I would love to add a 35 whelen or 350 remington magnum to the set but have not found the right one.... yet. | |||
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I only have one plastic-stock rifle and its light weight is the only part of it I really appreciate, as it used to be my tahr rifle. The plastic is noisy in the bush and is now scratched in a way that could not be refinished a la a wooden stock. It did make a nice paddle one day when I made a sitting glissade to get down from a high NZ tight spot, though. | |||
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My blaser r8 have synthetic and plastic but are expensive. Their metal is anything but cheap. I like em. I like my ruger American but put in a Timney trigger. I put a McMillan on a ruger m77 whose wood stock I broke. Other than that all my way too many hunting rifles are wood and steel. The American hunting market has gone low dollar - academy does not even carry tikka rifles in store. Mike | |||
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Every generation has their own way of doing things. The younger generation like black guns, and as long as they enjoy them then all the power to them. Gun owners tend to be loyal to what they know, and older people like me appreciate walnut and blued steel. I collect buffalo rifles, and in my research I found out that the Sharps Borcharht was not popular with the buffalo hunters because it did not have and external hammer. It had an internal striker which is quicker to fire, but being the traditional bunch that they were, they didn’t take to it very well. I do own a couple of rifles with synthetic stocks but most have walnut, which I prefer for the looks. To each their own I guess. | |||
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More than a few years ago I would have thought similar especially after owning a couple of Schultz and Larsen rifles, nice wood and blued steel, beautiful factory trigger and super accurate but of course were, and still are, expensive factory rifles. Sold my last one and bought a Rem 700 SPS, plastic and blued steel but it was very functional and accurate, my older son has it now. My younger son bought a well used Weatherby Vanguard, plastic and blued, okay trigger, heavy rifle but very accurate. Covered in dings and scratches from some tough hunting, a wooden stock would likely have broken by now. I bought a new Marlin XS to replace the Rem, plastic stock and blued barrel, great trigger, very light carry, accurate as hell and the factory fluted bolt glides like on ice, and hey who needs to pay a gunsmith to bed the bolt lugs for accuracy, a floating bolt head does it for you which along with the barrel nut allows an easy cartridge change if ever wanting. Even has a blind magazine which was new to me but I really like it. I'm approaching 70 and been using guns since old enough to aim, would never go to wood again. Just got to change with the times  My Marlin plastic fantastic in it's element.  A Weatherby Vanguard also in it's element.  | |||
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Lack of craftsmanship and gunsmiths art is exemplified by the stupid designs of the Blasers! No character whatsoever! A piece of junk that came out of the drunken brain of a Kraut during an October Fest! What with all those Fraulein showing all their anatomy and carrying dozens of beer glasses got to him!  | |||
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I am a huge Mauser and pre-64/Classic Model 70 fan, but I see the tremendous value in accurate rifles, no matter what they cost. Looking at the 721 rem and 700 Rem, then the 788, they were the Ruger American and savage axis of there day. Many of the wood stocks of yesterday were mass produced and impressed checkered. Manufacturers have just kept refining the process. Button rifling was invented as a cheaper alternative to cut, and hammer forged is cheaper still (I’m guessing on the last one). I can’t knock the industry for wanting to make money, and they are getting new shooters in door who otherwise would not bother due to price point. In fact today’s shooters seem somewhat spoiled, as today’s the cheap guns shoot as well, or better than yesterday’s top drawer rifles. Matt FISH!! Heed the words of Winston Smith in Orwell's 1984: "Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right." | |||
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The Sharps Borchardt was introduced in 1878, after the bison were almost all gone, so it could not have been a popular buffalo rifle, hammer or not. And Sharps went bankrupt in 1881 for the same reason; demand was gone. That is why I don't like them. No hammer. Yes, hammer forged barrels are very cheap, but the capital cost is high. | |||
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I like Russian walnut, rust blue, Mauser or pre 64 mod. 70 actions, Lothar walthar barrels, and these have served me well function can be pretty..I like the pre 64 Win. or FN or whitworth 98 Mausers in the lesser money guns..and I have one ss Ruger Zytel stocked mark2 with that strong boatpaddle stock in 338, I don't much like it or its kin, but there is a place for it like in Alaska or pack in Idaho elk hunt in the winter months.... Those guns you call Closet Queens get hunted hard at my casa! What the younger generation uses is up to them, ARs, SS and plastic stocks, its just not for me and never will be. Ive seen some "custom rifles" with plastic stocks and stainless metal bring $3500 and up to $10,000 and they could be duplicated for $1500, its a suckers game.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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The mauser model 18 was the smoother than any other of the plastic rifles I tried .If I could remember the 6.5 creedmore to a 260 rem I probally would do it .The 243 ruger 77 tang safety rifle that I want to make into a 260 is smooth as butter and the stock is awesome .I have about 20 ruger tang safety and ruger 77 mark II rifles .The last one I bought was a stainless ruger Hawkeye stainless with a plastic stock it's action is very rough .I could shoot my old ruger 77 rifles as fast as any lever gun.I hunted with my savage plastic cheap savage model 11 in 260 rem .Its super accurate but not smooth at all .I hope this ruger 77 tang rifle in 260 rem will be my last hunting rifle .I used that 338 win mag ruger 77 34 years .It just started kicking too much for fun shooting and too heavy weight to carry for deer hunting . | |||
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Buy used, last couple Tang safety m77's, B78, 1895, and Montana Rifle Co rifles ive bought (and even a ruger #1) were around what my friend bought his American predator in 6.5 Creedmoor for. I do like my all weather stainless Ruger American in 7mm-08...was a steal at $230 "Let me start off with two words: Made in America" | |||
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In Rugers, Im fond of the Ruger African model in 9.3x62, 338 and 375 Ruger, Im sure a 416 would suit me as well.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I like Fraulien anatomy and beer! But I also like good walnut and blued steel. That's why I hunt with my Dakotas. A big plus for me is that they are far more beautiful to hold and reminisce with! Also, I hope that they may hold value better than the stainless synthetic alternatives. I have a Ruger No. 1 on order too! 30-06 of course. USMC Retired DSC Life Member SCI Life Member NRA Life Member | |||
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Wood is warmer! prettier! and old world rust blue is as stainless as stainless steel!!! Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I love a pretty rifle as much as the next guy and have a number of them. It took a while, but I've come around to synthetic stocks. Working rifles. All my go-to hunting rifles are synthetic stocks now. Some are custom built, a few are factory restocked. All are accurate. None are pretty. They just do the job and I won't have my feelings hurt if they get a ding or two on a hunt. | |||
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I know what you mean. I have 2 375 H+H rifles, 1 is a custom on P17 action in beautiful wood + the other is a Whitworth in a synthetic stock. The Whitworth is what I take hunting. I bought a Ruger # 1 from a member here about 12 years ago because the wood was so beautiful that he wouldn't take it in the woods + decided to sell it for that reason. Never mistake motion for action. | |||
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I have several nicely stocked wood rifles, shotguns the ones I use on a regular basic have all be refinished at least once. When you actual use/carry a firearm regularly through the brush in and out of vehicles/boats canoes over under fences the finishes get worn. When I see firearms that have supposedly used for decades and still look 99 percent it always wonders me how/if they were used. | |||
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The bolt is real smooth on my Sakos and my Steyr. CO School of Trades 1976, Gunsmithing | |||
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interesting take .. by "most" and "today" ... well, can i be contrary? if you aren't interested, then just skip this post.. "MOST" rifles, since ~1650 have been rifles, have been military rifles, and since the brown bess, or there abouts, haven't been made for "craft" but rather for contract specs .. circa 48,000,0000 of those were mauser 98s, made from c1900 to 1945, tens of millions, if not more, were enfields, krags, other mausers, nagants, springfields, other enfields, etc etc etc . then, garands, m14s, tokarovs, sks, sks clones, ak47s, m16s, etc .. i submit that "most", likely to the point of 90+% of rifles, have been made for military contracts "yeah, you know what he meant, jeff" .. i did, and do .. so, altering this .. most NOT MILITARY rifles (i'll NOT include reworked military actions, as the other edge case) since, say, 1900, have been made to met a price point -- and made to met a price point means ALL THE SAME, and, excluding the pre64 model 70, have been really close to interchangeable parts (i am a gunsmith, swapping a barrel from one to another is usually NOT "interchangeable" without skilled work) and until the last 25-30 years, 2 MOA was acceptable, even great, accuracy for a commercial rifle. in the last 30 years, though, the price has SKYROCKETED ... i recall, explicitly, that the model 70 was $299 about 1990, the mod700 was a couple bucks cheaper, the savage 110 was about 199, and a 10/22 was about 89 bucks .. the marlin semiautojammer was about 69 bucks... NONE of these had ANY craftmanship .. not a BIT .. but they were generally blued steel and walnut ... with the savage, even then, being the best bet for being the most accurate out of the box i am a ruger m77 FAN .. and have owned almost all of the variants, from the original roundtop to the hawkeye as well as all generations of the RSM.. no interest in the american. I have been told that Leonard Brownell actually designed the stock - which, if he had been alive when I was told this, would have received at least a phone call .. but ruger wasn't know for accuracy .. and with it's cast receiver, STILL TODAY, doesn't get the created Bill deserved for the design of the action, as the action is truly genius and let's take the was 30 years, in America, and look at civilian "NEW" gun sales .. ar15 rules the roost in gross sales 22s hand guns shotguns ak/sks/milsurp THEN turnbolt and leverguns - all of which are designed to make a price point therefore, i submit that "craftmanship" has not been the mass public's primary product selection criteria .. since, well, forever as for me, i learned to become a gunsmith to take those same base models and make them into what I want - beginning with a a 1944 mauser my dad bought me for my 8th birthday, and we (rather badly) bubba'd it up to fit me.. for an all weather hunting rifle, i kinda appreciate plastic fantastic stainless rifles, which just may receive a coat of BBQ paint on the steel (bubba's ceracoat) to keep down the shine. oh well, this has been a wandering rant-- but at least I recognize it for that, being mostly rubbish on my part opinions vary band of bubbas and STC hunting Club Information on Ammoguide about the416AR, 458AR, 470AR, 500AR What is an AR round? Case Drawings 416-458-470AR and 500AR. 476AR, http://www.weaponsmith.com | |||
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While I’m personally not a big fan of Glocks or Pop Journalism, Paul Barrett’s book “Glock: Rise of America’s Gun” has some interesting notions in regard to demographics and firearms. Previous to circa the Civil War, if you had a firearm, it was obviously blackpowder, muzzle loading, and likely hand made. With the coming industrialization, urbanization, and closing of the frontiers, double barrel shotguns came to the fore. Makes sense, big game numbers had plummeted, trophy hunting was the sport of a rich few and a double 12 was pretty handy around the farm. Particularly with WWII’s opening of the international front, big game trophy hunting became accessible to the masses, hunting small game on the farm slowly waned and bolt actions reached their peak. With the continued urbanization and loss of opportunity and upbringing, big game hunting weapons have been surpassed by those purchased, mass consumption, for personal protection. | |||
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I've quite recently bought 3 Howa Mini barreled actions and the mag plate (bottom metal) is plastic. I've spent the $100 to get the aluminum ones. I've seen pics of some awesome custom steel ones but their application is different than mine for these rifles. I've also spent the money for Jard 8 oz triggers for them too. I've killed over a dozen coyotes with the suppressed .223 so far. Sweet rifles!... now. Maybe the bigger actions have metal bottom metal. I just don't know. Zeke | |||
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Wasn’t the M77 Mk1 made with a cheap metal investment cast receiver to minimise production cost and maximise profit? CNC made full diameter bolts are slicker than M77s could dream to be. If you want old world craftsmanship I suggest dropping $5000 minimum on a break action with a Jaeger lock and your choice of timber, but beware that even there the dreaded CNC mass production and synthetic stock has made inroads because most don’t want to pay for old world gunmaking Formerly Gun Barrel Ecologist | |||
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Wow, Jeff, just blow my mine. I haven’t seen so much stuff since Philosophy 101, and this is not a criticism, my mind doesn’t work that fast any more. JP Sauer Drilling 12x12x9.3x72 David Murray Scottish Hammer 12 Bore Alex Henry 500/450 Double Rifle Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock 6.5x55 Steyr Classic Mannlicher Fullstock .30-06 Walther PPQ H2 9mm Walther PPS M2 Cogswell & Harrison Hammer 12 Bore Damascus And Too Many More | |||
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I hunt my nice rifles as well. Someone said life’s too short to hunt with an ugly gun... Now if the weather is going to be so bad that the thing will rust solid on you I do have a few synthetic and stainless guns that I can use, but my go-to deer rifle is a Dakota 100th anniversary.30-06, and the gun I’m using on a Mountain Nyala hunt is a Jim Kobe custom pre64 model 70. Nicks and dings from hunting are character. Heck, my duck guns (even if they are Benellis) are blued and walnut... and I have to clean them when I get in. | |||
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The market for craftsmanship is getting smaller. We are a society that puts greatest value on utility....except for those of exceptional good taste on this site  | |||
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